Which Side Are You On?

[Robert]

That's one hell of a leap to make. I trust government more than private corporate interests.

What variety of logic let's you make the assumption that I believe everyone should then work for the government? I'll go out on a limb and guess Glenn Beck taught you everything you know about deductive reasoning.

Do corporations do a better job of keeping employment here in America than any other entity?

Well given there are only two choices Private and Public, since you seem to hate the idea of Private that leaves only public. So I guess that assumption came from some idiot who listens to madcow all day.

Jones and Lauglin Steel. Bethlehem Steel. Wheeling Pittsburgh Steel. US Steel. Rubbermaid. Sterling China Co. Louthan Foundry.


Just some of the privately owned corporations which have abandoned America. They took the works. The factories, the jobs, the opportunities for working families to make a good future here and sent them all to Asia and Mexico.

That's why I don't trust corporatations. They get the best from American workers and then fold up their tents and steal away in search of greater profits. I wonder how they (the corporations) can still imagine having paying customers when they take the jobs away.

They did that as a direct result of Policy's enacted by the monolithic Government a Corporation is not going to pull up and endure the HUGE cost associated with the move unless that is a damn good reason for doing so.

 

[Nosmo King]

In the struggle between We the People and an All Powerful Central Government, which side are you on?

We the People have the power to change the government. How much power do We the People have in corporate board rooms?

Do corporations do a better job of keeping employment here in America than any other entity? Are corporations widely regarded as great stewards of our natural resources? Corporations are motivated by their own profit margins, not the public good.

Do you believe businesses should operate for the "public good"? If so, you bring to light the advancement of government control through central planning.
BTW, the investors in a publicly traded company can in fact affect chenge in the board room by simply dumping their shares.
For example. About 10 or so years ago Time Warner was having it's annual shreholder's meeting. Diuring that time a groundswell of protest vs TW was ongoing in reaction to that company's record label promoting a rap song by an "artist" who advocated the killling of police officers. Charlton Heston, a stockholder at that time stood up in the meeting and read laoud the lyrics of the controveresial song. Then at the end of his reading looked the board members in the eye and exclaimed "you people should be ashamed of yourselves". Board members at the head table were left speechless. Remarkably after Time Warner's stock price began ot delcine, TW rescinded it's contract with the artist and refused to publish the album.
The point is, people can indeed influenece the corporate board room or the way a corp. does business.

I think corporations should have some ethics when it comes to the public. Ethics aren't an anti-Capitalist idea these days, are they? It's hard to tell because the same people getting screwed blue when a factory closes are all for the company that did just that! Odd line of thinking, wouldn't you say?

 

[daveman]

What drove those companies away?

profit

Government did

I know that. YOU know that. Let's see if we can get Nosmo there.

 

[daveman]

What drove those companies away?

I highly doubt that they are going to give an honest answer. They want those companies to look evil, not their policies. It's always someone elses fault.

Indeed.

 

[whitehall]

I want cheap energy, pride in America and a stable non intrusive government that can pay it's own debts. Democrats promote hardship and anger in order to change the fabric of society. Guess which side I am on?

 

[daveman]

I want cheap energy, pride in America and a stable non intrusive government that can pay it's own debts. Democrats promote hardship and anger in order to change the fabric of society. Guess which side I am on?

"You must spread some Reputation around etc."

 

[Nosmo King]

What drove those companies away?

profit

Why were they not profitable?

In the case of the steel mills, they were old and not equipped to produce profitably. So, Reagan gave steel makers a tax break. I'm assuming the windfall was to retool their works and get competative again. But, for example, US Steel diversified and bought Aristech Chemical then they shuttered their mills and shipped the equipment to Asia.

Rubbermaid couod not produce their products at a price point acceptable to Wal*Mart. Wal*Mart encouraged Rubbermaid to box up the factory and send it to China so Rubbermaid products could be sold at a price acceptable to Wal*Mart.

 

[Avatar4321]

GReat post....This is liberal playbook page ne. Attack the opposition by accusation and leave out important facts and evidence to support the attack. This leaves the accused to defend themselves instead of promoting themselves.

The problem is they don't rely on facts or provide any real evidence to explain why corporations are evil. They make an emotional argument to stir up covetousness. "Those "evil" Corporations make money! How dare they provide goods and services to people in order provide their investors and employees with a living?" They want to have a say in the ownership of the company without ever bothering to put any efffort to buy ownership or work into them.

It's a shame. There is nothing wrong with running an effective business. Even if it's organized as a corporation. In fact, I encourage more people to run their own business and be their own masters no matter what form of business they choose to make it.

But then, I like people working and providing for themselves.

 

[Nosmo King]

That's one hell of a leap to make. I trust government more than private corporate interests.

What variety of logic let's you make the assumption that I believe everyone should then work for the government? I'll go out on a limb and guess Glenn Beck taught you everything you know about deductive reasoning.

You trust the government more than your fellow citizens? Interesting...

Government IS my fellow citizens.

 

[daveman]

profit

Why were they not profitable?

In the case of the steel mills, they were old and not equipped to produce profitably. So, Reagan gave steel makers a tax break. I'm assuming the windfall was to retool their works and get competative again. But, for example, US Steel diversified and bought Aristech Chemical then they shuttered their mills and shipped the equipment to Asia.

Rubbermaid couod not produce their products at a price point acceptable to Wal*Mart. Wal*Mart encouraged Rubbermaid to box up the factory and send it to China so Rubbermaid products could be sold at a price acceptable to Wal*Mart.

What role did the unions have in all this?

 

[georgephillip]

"Conservatism means, or should mean, emphasis on entrepreneurialism (as opposed to corporate capitalism), self-reliant local economies (small businesses and farms, rather than big chain stores and agriconglomerates), economic security for Americans (freedom from destitution because of unemployment, old age, or the cost of medical emergencies), democratic sovereignty (rather than subordination to international trade cabals), observance of the US Constitution and international laws and treaties that the US has signed (Article VI), and deployment of the US armed forces solely for immediate self-defense.

"Today's conservative leaders have abandoned these ideas and replaced them with a scheme to manipulate government for a radical redistribution of wealth from the bottom to the top.

"For these politicians, government is only a threat to America when it benefits working people or the poor or public health or the environment. Big government for big business is perfectly acceptable.

"The amassing of wealth and power for the corporate sector has become the major project of the GOP in the 21st century, with the Democratic Party's cooperation."

Which Side Are You On? New Language for a New Political Reality | Common Dreams

 

[Avatar4321]

It's simply that some people must create a fall guy to blame for their own woes and or short comings.

I know. It's a shame. Because they could overcome those short comings if they stopped excusing them and fought to overcome them.

I think the idea that i should be angry or hate my brethren simply because they have more or less money than me is false. If they through their thrift, industry, and honesty are able to successfully make money, more power to them! If they try and fail, well then ill be there to give them a hand. But I never understood why them being successful or not being successful hurts me. It doesnt make sense.

 

[Avatar4321]

That's one hell of a leap to make. I trust government more than private corporate interests.

What variety of logic let's you make the assumption that I believe everyone should then work for the government? I'll go out on a limb and guess Glenn Beck taught you everything you know about deductive reasoning.

You trust the government more than your fellow citizens? Interesting...

Government IS my fellow citizens.

No. I wish that were true.

 

[Nosmo King]

Why were they not profitable?

In the case of the steel mills, they were old and not equipped to produce profitably. So, Reagan gave steel makers a tax break. I'm assuming the windfall was to retool their works and get competative again. But, for example, US Steel diversified and bought Aristech Chemical then they shuttered their mills and shipped the equipment to Asia.

Rubbermaid couod not produce their products at a price point acceptable to Wal*Mart. Wal*Mart encouraged Rubbermaid to box up the factory and send it to China so Rubbermaid products could be sold at a price acceptable to Wal*Mart.

What role did the unions have in all this?

They were asked to make sweeping concession in pay, retirement benefits, long term medical coverage and hiring freezes. In every case IN EVERY CASE the unions made those concessions just to keep the opportunities here for future generations.

You keep looking for some Leftist boogeyman. Can't you fathom the vast motivation of greed some corporations have? Sometimes the fault, dear Daveman, is right on the conference table in the board room.

 

[Nosmo King]

You trust the government more than your fellow citizens? Interesting...

Government IS my fellow citizens.

No. I wish that were true.

Who took away your right to vote? You can still vote, can't you? You can still campaign, right?

What can you do to effect the decisions of a corporation?

 

[peach174]

I don't think any of them knows what capitalism is and how good it is for our country. I don't think even the people in Washington know. They sure don't understand it.
Without capitalism we wound not have what we have. We would be more like North Korea. The farmers there don't even have tractors to plow their fields. They have no heat in the winter,they are starving.
You want America to be like that? I don't.
Capitalism is the chairs that all of you are setting on right now, the computers. the TV's the stereos you listen too, our heating in the winter, and cooling in the summer.
It is the Government that needs to be changed not corporations.

 

[bripat9643]

The fact is that government spending as a percentage of the economy has grown vastly since the 20s. Your anecdotal characterizations don't mean diddly squat. Before the income tax was passed, government spending at all levels was 5% of the Gross Domestic product. Now its close to 50%.

Those numbers don't lie.

You do.

Anybody remember Archie and Edith?

"Everybody pulled his weight.
Didn't need no welfare state...
Those were the days!"

Archie Bunker, protagonist of the popular 1970s TV sitcom "All in the Family" and today's Tea Party movement seem to share a misconception of just how "conservative" the 1930s, 40s and 50s actually were.

Were those decades a time when hard-working Americans pulled themselves up by their own bootstraps?

"It's true that Americans worked hard during these years.

"But the bootstraps stuff is nonsense.

"The 30s through 50s were the time of the New Deal, low-cost loans from the Federal Housing Administration, the GI Bill, huge subsidies for defense contractors during the Cold War and other industries that employed millions of people, massive transfer of funding from cities to the burgeoning suburbs, federal projects like interstate highway construction and the space program, generous investment in public schools, record union membership, high tax rates for corporations and the wealthy, good job benefits, and Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid, which ensured financial stability in old age and medical crises...

"On the evidence of history, calling today's Republican Party and their Tea Party supporters 'conservative' is as absurd as calling supporters of civil rights and racial justice 'reactionary' because they invoke the values of the Reconstruction Era."

Which Side Are You On? New Language for a New Political Reality | Common Dreams

 

[xsited1]

I'm on whichever side has cookies.

hey- is there milk with those cookies? Cuz that's what would really help me chose a side.

Why yes. Yes, there is.

 

[daveman]

In the case of the steel mills, they were old and not equipped to produce profitably. So, Reagan gave steel makers a tax break. I'm assuming the windfall was to retool their works and get competative again. But, for example, US Steel diversified and bought Aristech Chemical then they shuttered their mills and shipped the equipment to Asia.

Rubbermaid couod not produce their products at a price point acceptable to Wal*Mart. Wal*Mart encouraged Rubbermaid to box up the factory and send it to China so Rubbermaid products could be sold at a price acceptable to Wal*Mart.

What role did the unions have in all this?

They were asked to make sweeping concession in pay, retirement benefits, long term medical coverage and hiring freezes. In every case IN EVERY CASE the unions made those concessions just to keep the opportunities here for future generations.

You keep looking for some Leftist boogeyman. Can't you fathom the vast motivation of greed some corporations have? Sometimes the fault, dear Daveman, is right on the conference table in the board room.

Sometimes it is. Sometimes it's in the union hall and the government bureaucracy office.

But we can't acknowledge that, because it gets in the way of looking for the KKKorporate boogeyman, doesn't it?

 

[Robert]

In the case of the steel mills, they were old and not equipped to produce profitably. So, Reagan gave steel makers a tax break. I'm assuming the windfall was to retool their works and get competative again. But, for example, US Steel diversified and bought Aristech Chemical then they shuttered their mills and shipped the equipment to Asia.

Rubbermaid couod not produce their products at a price point acceptable to Wal*Mart. Wal*Mart encouraged Rubbermaid to box up the factory and send it to China so Rubbermaid products could be sold at a price acceptable to Wal*Mart.

What role did the unions have in all this?

They were asked to make sweeping concession in pay, retirement benefits, long term medical coverage and hiring freezes. In every case IN EVERY CASE the unions made those concessions just to keep the opportunities here for future generations.

You keep looking for some Leftist boogeyman. Can't you fathom the vast motivation of greed some corporations have? Sometimes the fault, dear Daveman, is right on the conference table in the board room.

I can deal with greed I understand greed its very easy to identify and stop.

What I can't deal with is corrupt power being given to people who's only desire is to have more power at the expense of everyone and everything around them such as we see today with the current administration.

The leftist boogy man in this case is a government that is out of control and is no longer constrained by the laws and rules made to keep it in check. I don't fear a corporation doing wrong to the People I very much fear our Government doing massive to our People.