What will your reaction be when you discover you were wrong about Obama?

[Andylusion]

Somehow the Left got wussified. They forgot how their grandfathers organized Detroit and Pittsburg and Appalachia. They forgot what their fathers and mothers did on buses and at lunch counters in the early sixties. They forgot what their older siblings did marching against the Vietnam War and for the ERA. Those activists didn't win every battle; but they changed the world.

To Obama "Don't get mad; organize!" is a cute slogan (he never was a very good organizer in Chicago). It's time we took back its meaning.

And they were led by or infiltrated/influenced by Communists, too.

Just like the right has always been "infiltrated" by neo-nazis, skinheads, and Klansmen. I won't paint you with that brush if you stop using these red herrings. You would get an F- in any logic class for that little gem. Really, is the right so intellectually bankrupt that you can't find better arguments than that? REALLY?

Nazis are socialists. Saying the right is infiltrated by socialists, is like saying leftist are infiltrated by capitalists.

Skinheads doesn't mean anything. Klansmen, is also irrelevant, given how many Klansmen have been Left-wing Democrats. Robert Byrd for example.

The difference between your empty allegations, and his statement, is that his statement is documented fact.

 

[Paperman299]

The POTUS actually exceeded my expectations so I already know what I would do. I'm happy with his performance in the face of unimaginable odds. We know that those that oppose him would have fainted trying to handle the job and thats why they didnt run for POTUS.

Me too. And as well as he has done, as much as he has accomplished, he could have done so much more if the damned Rs had not kept their promise to stop him, to obstruct, to screw over the nation.

Funny thing about this thread title ... Obama has been prez for 6 years. When is this big unveiling of The Real Obama gonna happen?

obama holds the record for most bills passed.

I wish you idiots could learn, cuz I'm telling you this for the umptenth time.

Incorrect. The number of bills passed has been steadily declining since Obama took office. In fact, our current Congress will almost certainly be the least productive in history.

 

[Andylusion]

Me too. And as well as he has done, as much as he has accomplished, he could have done so much more if the damned Rs had not kept their promise to stop him, to obstruct, to screw over the nation.

Funny thing about this thread title ... Obama has been prez for 6 years. When is this big unveiling of The Real Obama gonna happen?

obama holds the record for most bills passed.

I wish you idiots could learn, cuz I'm telling you this for the umptenth time.

Incorrect. The number of bills passed has been steadily declining since Obama took office. In fact, our current Congress will almost certainly be the least productive in history.

"productive"? lol. There are many words I could use to describe the actions of government, but none would come close to "productive".

Five years ago I signed up for catastrophic high deductible health insurance. The cost? $57 a month. Nine years ago I helped a Somalian friend sign up for similar insurance. The cost? $46 a month.

Last week, I was trying to determine if I wanted to buy insurance through my company, which I just qualified for. They wanted $114 for minimum coverage.

So I search for private insurance similar to the policy I had years ago. The lowest price, for a $6,000 deductible policy was $250 a month.

I *WISH* that government had been as un- "productive" at the start of Obama's presidency as they are now. I am personally paying the price for the "productivity" of government when Obama got elected.

 

[Pogo]

And they were led by or infiltrated/influenced by Communists, too.

Just like the right has always been "infiltrated" by neo-nazis, skinheads, and Klansmen. I won't paint you with that brush if you stop using these red herrings. You would get an F- in any logic class for that little gem. Really, is the right so intellectually bankrupt that you can't find better arguments than that? REALLY?

Nazis are socialists. Saying the right is infiltrated by socialists, is like saying leftist are infiltrated by capitalists.

Nazis were "socialists" in the same way that the Pennsylvania Dutch are "Dutch".
The same way that the "Democratic People's Republic of Korea" is any of those, save "Korea". Ditto the "Democratic Republic" of Congo.
The same sense in which there are literally ten thousand musicians in the band 10,000 Maniacs. Or that the Nashville Teens were from Nashville, or even North America.
Or that Grape Nuts is made from either of those foods at all.

The fact is you can affix any brand name you want; that doesn't make it take on the character. The fact is "socialist", a trendy name of the time, was already in place and Hitler himself objected to it. The fact is socialists and communists (and the left in general) were Nazism's chosen enemies, indeed comprised the first prisoners at Dachau. The fact is we've done all this before with you robots of Revisionism ad Ridiculum.

Skinheads doesn't mean anything. Klansmen, is also irrelevant, given how many Klansmen have been Left-wing Democrats. Robert Byrd for example.

None of them could be considered "left-wing Democrats" but rather "right-wing (conservative) Democrats". But you just said this is irrelevant, so never mind.

Anything else?

 

[Andylusion]

Just like the right has always been "infiltrated" by neo-nazis, skinheads, and Klansmen. I won't paint you with that brush if you stop using these red herrings. You would get an F- in any logic class for that little gem. Really, is the right so intellectually bankrupt that you can't find better arguments than that? REALLY?

Nazis are socialists. Saying the right is infiltrated by socialists, is like saying leftist are infiltrated by capitalists.

Nazis were "socialists" in the same way that the Pennsylvania Dutch are "Dutch".
The same way that the "Democratic People's Republic of Korea" is any of those, save "Korea". Ditto the "Democratic Republic" of Congo.
The same sense in which there are literally ten thousand musicians in the band 10,000 Maniacs. Or that the Nashville Teens were from Nashville, or even North America.
Or that Grape Nuts is made from either of those foods at all.

The fact is you can affix any brand name you want; that doesn't make it take on the character. The fact is "socialist", a trendy name of the time, was already in place and Hitler himself objected to it. The fact is socialists and communists (and the left in general) were Nazism's chosen enemies, indeed comprised the first prisoners at Dachau. The fact is we've done all this before with you robots of Revisionism ad Ridiculum.

Skinheads doesn't mean anything. Klansmen, is also irrelevant, given how many Klansmen have been Left-wing Democrats. Robert Byrd for example.

None of them could be considered "left-wing Democrats" but rather "right-wing (conservative) Democrats". But you just said this is irrelevant, so never mind.

Anything else?

Oh bull crap. There was nothing 'conservative' or right-wing about Robert Byrd except that he didn't go around with a hammer and sickle emblem on his shirt.

Go check out his voting record if you doubt that. He was as left-wing socialist as you could get, without having a membership to the Communist Party.

As for Nazis not being socialist, you can say that all you want, but when you hear from actual Nazis, they are as socialist as you get.

The BBC did a documentary on "Russia's Far Right" Sep 6th, 2012.
You can look it up.

They interviewed actual self proclaimed Nazis in Russia. Their list of complaint and policy positions ran like the Communist manifesto. They wanted a return to Leninism. They wanted to nationalize the major companies. They wanted equality of the people. They wanted a cap on wages, and control over the market.

These were self proclaimed Nazis. National Socialists. What part about that list of demands, sounds "right-wing" to you? Or, what part of that sounds not left-wing to you?

I can't figure out what aspect of Nazism that isn't extremely similar to any other variant of socialism.

 

[Pogo]

"Russia"?

 

[Andylusion]

"Russia"?

Every time I treat you like an adult that can discuss a topic intelligently, you prove me wrong.

 

[Katzndogz]

I was wrong about obama. I thought he was bad or incompetent. He's evil. He's evil in the same way Caligula was evil

 

[Grandma]

I was wrong about obama. I thought he was bad or incompetent. He's evil. He's evil in the same way Caligula was evil

Thanks for your completely dishonest and overblown contribution to the thread.

Meanwhile, back at the OP, I do think Obama is well-intentioned. I think maybe one-third of Congress is. And seven-ninths of the Supreme Court.

I know that too many people involving themselves in political discussions are in dire need of political science, US history, world history, economics, geography, and sociology education. Too many people haven't the slightest idea of how government works, or why. Their opinions are not their own, they're not able to form opinions, they just repeat what they're told by some source that appeals to them.

But not everyone. There are many that understand the complexities involved in getting a bill introduced, sent through committee, and then passed - and they understand why pork gets thrown in (by both sides.) They have a much clearer understanding of where each individual policy could lead.

It would be nice if more of those members posted in this thread, as opposed to the Debbie Downers and Negative Nancys that add no substance to the debate.

 

[Clement]

What will your reaction be when you discover you were wrong about Obama?

Whether you discover he really IS a great guy and sincerely trying his best to do what's best for America and Americans...

Or...

Whether you discover he really IS a radical Leftist with an agenda to collapse America's institutions and cancel (tear up) the Constitution, impose martial law, gain complete govt. control over America and establish a Police state.

What do you think your reaction will be when you discover you were wrong about Barack Obama?

In my opinion half of us WILL have this experience.

If I am shown to have been wrong about him I will probably break down and sob like a baby.

I would feel humbled and deeply apologetic. I would write him a letter telling him just how wrong I was and how sorry I was and hope he would forgive me.

And I would never feel sure again about anything else because i was sooooooooooo sure of his malintentions. And if I was that sure about him and was proven wrong I would forevermore question my own judgment.

But I doubt I am wrong.

And so do you.

So, what will your reaction be? What will you do when you discover you were wrong about Barack Obama?

My reaction was "even I didn't think he'd be THIS bad".

 

[Jonnic]

What will your reaction be when you discover you were wrong about Obama?

Whether you discover he really IS a great guy and sincerely trying his best to do what's best for America and Americans...

Or...

Whether you discover he really IS a radical Leftist with an agenda to collapse America's institutions and cancel (tear up) the Constitution, impose martial law, gain complete govt. control over America and establish a Police state.

What do you think your reaction will be when you discover you were wrong about Barack Obama?

In my opinion half of us WILL have this experience.

If I am shown to have been wrong about him I will probably break down and sob like a baby.

I would feel humbled and deeply apologetic. I would write him a letter telling him just how wrong I was and how sorry I was and hope he would forgive me.

And I would never feel sure again about anything else because i was sooooooooooo sure of his malintentions. And if I was that sure about him and was proven wrong I would forevermore question my own judgment.

But I doubt I am wrong.

And so do you.

So, what will your reaction be? What will you do when you discover you were wrong about Barack Obama?

Unless it should it turn out that he is not a crooked Chicago politician and crypto-socialist I won't be discovering I was wrong.

 

[dr.d]

Ah...I actually thought Obama had enough to do cleaning up W's mess...trying to bring those 2 messy wars W left behind to closure...restoring our economy which was in shambles when W left...improving our international rep which W besmirched thru his programs of torture, stupidity and deceit...
I was pleased he went well beyond that...getting OBL in 2 years when W tried for 7 and couldn't...getting re-elected despite endless opposition, successfully initiating the first universal healthcare program when several prez tried and couldn't...and persisting in bringing constitutional rights to women in the workforce and to gays in the military and private life,and much more.
And he's not done yet....


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

 

[beagle9]

What will your reaction be when you discover you were wrong about Obama?

Whether you discover he really IS a great guy and sincerely trying his best to do what's best for America and Americans...

Or...

Whether you discover he really IS a radical Leftist with an agenda to collapse America's institutions and cancel (tear up) the Constitution, impose martial law, gain complete govt. control over America and establish a Police state.

What do you think your reaction will be when you discover you were wrong about Barack Obama?

In my opinion half of us WILL have this experience.

If I am shown to have been wrong about him I will probably break down and sob like a baby.

I would feel humbled and deeply apologetic. I would write him a letter telling him just how wrong I was and how sorry I was and hope he would forgive me.

And I would never feel sure again about anything else because i was sooooooooooo sure of his malintentions. And if I was that sure about him and was proven wrong I would forevermore question my own judgment.

But I doubt I am wrong.

And so do you.

So, what will your reaction be? What will you do when you discover you were wrong about Barack Obama?

Not likely to happen. There are in fact many people that somehow think Obama is intentionally trying to ruin the country.

But, we've had this before. There have been numerous presidents in history, that people thought were trying to destroy the country.

In the 1950s, Lucky Strikes cigarettes had a slogan writen LS/MFT Lucky Strikes Means Fine Tobacco. People were so convinced that Harry Truman was going to ruin the country after becoming president from 45 to 53, that people were saying LSMFT Lord Save Me From Truman.

This is nothing new, and nothing special about Obama.

The difference between you and me though, is that I don't give crap about his intentions.

Intentions are meaningless. Let me give you an example....

A charity organization in Africa convinced the locals to plant and cultivate Maize (spanish for Corn). They did this because the plant was more suitable and productive than the types of farming they were doing, for that particular region.

They convinced the farmers they would be more productive, and make more money, and the hope was that this would grow the local economy.

They grew maize, and sure enough they were very productive with bumper crops. But then, when harvest came, they had some problems. No one bought the maize. The African people didn't like Maize. They saw the corn as prison food, and reviled it.

Without anyone to buy the food, the farmers started rioting, and most of the crop was left to rot.

Now.... what were the 'intentions' of the charity people? Did they intend to make the farmers poorer than ever? With an entire years harvest left to rot? Did they intend to cause riots?

Of course not. Does it matter? No, the result was exactly what it was. Their intentions didn't change anything. The results were that the poor farmers were worse off now than before they were growing Maize no one wanted, no matter how productive growing Maize was.

Same is true of Obama.

He may have had the best intentions that any man in the whole of human history has ever had. Doesn't matter. The results are, we have a crap economy, that should have recovered 5 years ago. We have a massive national debt that at this point, we have not even a chance of paying back without a massive economic ramifications. We have a screwed up health care system, worse than ever before, with companies cutting hours, and cutting employment, in order to avoid the burden of regulations.

Who cares what his intentions were? The facts are the facts.

And honestly, when in 2007, Obama first showed up, I knew he was a decent individual..... that was going to screw up the country if we let him. And we did, and he has. So the chance of me having a 'revelation' now, after all my predictions of what he would do, have come true in almost near perfection.... Just not likely.

Take a look at Venezuela.

A million people out of a country of only 28 Million, have left over the past decade.

Power outages nation wide. Shortages across the country. The biggest black market in the country is now for Rice. People can't even buy coffee in a Latin country known for growing coffee.

Used automobiles are now more expensive than new automobiles. Armed militias now roam the streets. The murder rate is now higher in Venezuela, than any other south American country, and even higher than Mexico with it's drug cartel murders.

Do you think that when Hugo Chavez became president of what was prior to, the leading economy in all of Latin America, that he intended to ruin it? What were his intentions? What was his goal?

Better still.... WHO CARES? The facts are the facts. He ruined Venezuela. Period. His intentions don't make any difference at all.

Same with Obama. Doesn't matter what his intentions were. The path to destruction is always paved with good intentions. The facts are, Obama's policies have failed. We should get rid of him and his ideologues, and change direction back to Free-market Capitalism, that has worked all over the world.

I mostly agree with you, except on the intentions not mattering part. Myself and millions of other people knew his intentions from the start. To those of us who pay attention and do a little research his intentions were obvious, totally transform the United States of America into a Fascist, Socialist State. (in Fascism people own companies but they are totally controlled by Government Laws and Regulations).

If so many people were not dazzled by his Hitler like speeches, he would never have won.

"Five days away from the total transformation of the United States Of America" should have struck such a fear in most Americans that they would have 'tared and feathered him and ran him our of town on a rail', at the polls, not real tar and feathers, so stop with the racist shit before you even start!!

It is ashame, because the nation was looking for a change from what was happening, but instead they got a personal agenda with an ax to grind. Yes it was known from the start, and we all watched as people were desperate in many groups, and so he stepped into the vaccum that was created when Bush faltered and ignored the middle class, and sadly the economy here for a bit to long.

 

[flacaltenn]

Re: This OP question,

Ive already admitted that I was wrong about Obama. Libertarian Party ran a candidate with better governor credentials than Romney.. The night Johnson lost ((surprise, surprise)) I said to myself..

Well Flacaltenn, at least NOW we will get rid of most of the Patriot Act, exit QUICKLY from nation building in BOTH warzones. Close some overseas military bases, attack the graft of corporate subsidies. And fix some racial divisions in this country.. Didnt take me all of the first 4 years, to realize how silly I was to have HOPE FOR CHANGE.... No real diff on those policies between the 2 parties.

What a fool I was....

 

[Pogo]

Re: This OP question,

Ive already admitted that I was wrong about Obama. Libertarian Party ran a candidate with better governor credentials than Romney.. The night Johnson lost ((surprise, surprise)) I said to myself..

Well Flacaltenn, at least NOW we will get rid of most of the Patriot Act, exit QUICKLY from nation building in BOTH warzones. Close some overseas military bases, attack the graft of corporate subsidies. And fix some racial divisions in this country.. Didnt take me all of the first 4 years, to realize how silly I was to have HOPE FOR CHANGE.... No real diff on those policies between the 2 parties.

What a fool I was....

Ah, well you want Bernie Sanders then. We sure ain't gonna get satisfaction out of the Demoplican/Republicrat Party.

"As for a third party, we tried that in 1972, the People's Party. Unfortunately we hadn't realized that in order to have a third party you must first have two other parties" --- Gore Vidal

 

[HackinJack]

o.k.

 

[Andylusion]

Re: This OP question,

Ive already admitted that I was wrong about Obama. Libertarian Party ran a candidate with better governor credentials than Romney.. The night Johnson lost ((surprise, surprise)) I said to myself..

Well Flacaltenn, at least NOW we will get rid of most of the Patriot Act, exit QUICKLY from nation building in BOTH warzones. Close some overseas military bases, attack the graft of corporate subsidies. And fix some racial divisions in this country.. Didnt take me all of the first 4 years, to realize how silly I was to have HOPE FOR CHANGE.... No real diff on those policies between the 2 parties.

What a fool I was....

Ah, well you want Bernie Sanders then. We sure ain't gonna get satisfaction out of the Demoplican/Republicrat Party.

"As for a third party, we tried that in 1972, the People's Party. Unfortunately we hadn't realized that in order to have a third party you must first have two other parties" --- Gore Vidal

Yeah, rich Bernie Sanders, who hates Capitalism, supports socialism which has ruined countries around the world, who also happens to engage in capitalism buy selling copies of his book on how horrible capitalism is..... that Bernie Sanders? Can you get anymore Ironic? Can you get anymore hypocritical?

Low standards when he's the best you can find.

 

[hadit]

We've known The Fragile One as POTUS for 6 years. I don't think there are many surprises left in him at this point.

 

[Avorysuds]

I didn't like Obama at first but I didn't like Bush either. So when I found out that Obama was Bush Jr 2.0 I think I was amazed. What really got me were all the Obama-bots, just like Bush bots. Here you have a President (Obama) who dumps, literally gives billions to the rich and not in a blanket way, he picks who he gives money to... This same President starts mini wars and expands old wars, takes the war on terror to a whole new level and later is discovered he can't even talk without a teleprompter with a speech written by someone else. The Obama fans shrunk, but there is still this mindless hate filled crowd that claims Obama in a great President that has done amazing things.

The recession that never really ended is prolly going to be one of Obama's most memorable legacies.

 

[williepete]