What Kind of People Treat Children This Way?

[Coyote]

You said: "...apparently that concern only applies to palestinians and not israelis."

I'm not generalizing about the Israelis - I'm talking about a particular group (which I specifically stressed represented a pretty small but powerful subset of Israeli citizens).

Read much?




Oops...if I'm generalizing looks like I'm generalizing about the Palistinians too.

crickets chirping - Google Videos

i'm sorry...was there something there that warranted a response?

didn't think so..... and didn't even see your response.

but since you asked... i don't see you gneralizing much about the terrorists... it's all "woe is me... the poor pals" with you, near as i can tell.

You really do have a reading problem don't you? Please point out where I'm generalizing about "the Israeli's" but not saying the same thing about "the Palestinians"? (Except I was confining my statements to the Israeli Settlers and Palestinian extremists, but I no longer expect you to be able to read that well).

 

[Coyote]

No. "Jews" and "Israeli settlers" do not constitute synonyms. And the question of WHO acts this way opens the discussion.

Blowing your own children up fits within that framework.

I'm curious. Do you have any actual references of Palistinian parents putting actual bombs on or blowing up their children?

Well, gee. What a typically disingenuous question.

Yes, Coyote. It's all just fodder for snopes. It has never happened. The images are all just propaganda.

(The last words of the kids have been recorded, however. Translated they were, almost to the child, "AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!")

Well gee...and here I thought I was simply asking a direct question in my search for facts over hyperbole...silly me.

Again - simple verifiable article of parents putting bombs on children they are sending to be blown up would go a long ways towards establishing the truth of your arguments. The old "images are all out there" is a bit like the appeal to popularity fallacy. (We've already established that very few children actually get blown up or are blown up by their relatives).

 

[Liability]

For Coyote, since Coyote loves to ask such probing, hard-hitting, honest questions:

Take-a-pen.*Palestinians-Palestinian Child Abuse-Israelis Stop Teen Wearing Bomb Vest

And in a slightly tangential vein:

* * * * One additional worrying development is that parents are allowing their children to dress up as "martyrs". More and more, we see the phenomenon of children participating in marches and parades while dressed as "martyrs" and wearing props similar to explosive charges and slogans proclaiming their "martyr" status. There is no doubt that this phenomenon has a destructive effect on the education of these children, who imbibe the Jihad culture, making them easy targets for recruitment by terrorist organizations for perpetrating attacks.

The Children's Crusade

 

[uscitizen]

Americans just do not understand how the ME folks view myrtyrs.

He was myrtyred not killed or murdered.

 

[Coyote]

For Coyote, since Coyote loves to ask such probing, hard-hitting, honest questions:

Take-a-pen.*Palestinians-Palestinian Child Abuse-Israelis Stop Teen Wearing Bomb Vest

Good article, however the point isn't whether or not children are being used as suicide bombers - that is established and supported by fact. Since you turned this thread towards a discussion of Palestinian parenting skills and their desires to blow up their own children I wanted to know if you had any evidence that parents were helping their own children blow up? Even one?

* * * * One additional worrying development is that parents are allowing their children to dress up as "martyrs". More and more, we see the phenomenon of children participating in marches and parades while dressed as "martyrs" and wearing props similar to explosive charges and slogans proclaiming their "martyr" status. There is no doubt that this phenomenon has a destructive effect on the education of these children, who imbibe the Jihad culture, making them easy targets for recruitment by terrorist organizations for perpetrating attacks.

This is much more understandable because it is little different then Israeli children dressing up as IDF soldiers. Does it make it easier to recruit them? Probably. But then again recruitment is easy when you have nothing left to lose and lots of angry young people with no real outlet and no real hope.

Either way, I am not seeing indication of parents actively helping their own children blow up.

 

[Liability]

A little more, although some of it is veiled in a discussion of modern fiction:

The Palestinian Culture of Death

I found a few lines of particular interest:

How the Palestinians create their culture of death From imra.org.il Thursday, January 9, 2003
Report: "Palestinian Media Watch": Pressures Exerted on Palestinian Children to seek Shahada - Death for Allah
TV: Child Writes to Mother, "Rejoice over My Death" By Nadav Shragai Ha'aretz January 8, 2003:
"Ask for Death - the life will be given to you." This slogan, which was broadcast on Palestinian television on July 5th of last year, was also the headline chosen by the authors of Palestinian Media Watch as the title of their 40th research report. This report examines the social pressure exerted by the Palestinian Authority [PA] on children to die as "Shahids" [Death for Allah].
...Marcus and his colleagues have concluded that, having been exposed to such messages, young Palestinian children from the ages of six till nine play "death" games and role-play the dead. Children between the ages of 10 to 13 express the will to die, sometimes in televised interviews, and from the age of 14 some even take part in suicide attacks.

Id.

So, now, let's return to the coyote "question."

Yes. It's all just fiction. No children have ever been asked to wear a bomb vest. No mother has ever permitted herself to be blown to the hereafter in the name of Islam provided that she take-out some Joooos in the process.

It's all just a silly bit of confusion.

Jooos throwing rocks at Palistinians is of course bad. It deserves a thread to condemn it. But Palistinians (and other friendly Muslim peoples) strapping bombs on to themselves or their own children? Pffft. Nothing to see here. Move right along.

And if WE dare to call it by it's name -- the murder of one's own children, -- there are MANY of the apologists and propagandists more than READY to provide us with a dollop of corrective education:

No no. We are from the West. WE just don't "understand." It's not murder. It's martyrdom!

These people and their apologists are fucking sick.

 

[jillian]

You really do have a reading problem don't you?

i read just fine. thanks.

and i know EXACTLY what i'm dealing with on this issue.

 

[Liability]

http://www.imra.org.il/story.php3

 

[Liability]

Child Abuse in the Palestinian Authority

 

[uscitizen]

So we just need to ban GI Joe toys in Palestine?

Or do you think the murder of their fathers, etc is a mind warping experience?

Just think about how the USA hated Sadam. How many here had even been impacted by Sadam?
We lost how many troops during the first gulf war?

And yet hatred of sadam was very high in the USA.

The bleating of sheeple being led.

 

[uscitizen]

Lets not forget that the pali children play in a playground strewn with unexploded cluster munitions made in the USA and fired by Israel.

Not exactly a sesame street setting.

 

[Coyote]

A little more, although some of it is veiled in a discussion of modern fiction:

The Palestinian Culture of Death

I found a few lines of particular interest:

How the Palestinians create their culture of death From imra.org.il Thursday, January 9, 2003
Report: "Palestinian Media Watch": Pressures Exerted on Palestinian Children to seek Shahada - Death for Allah
TV: Child Writes to Mother, "Rejoice over My Death" By Nadav Shragai Ha'aretz January 8, 2003:
"Ask for Death - the life will be given to you." This slogan, which was broadcast on Palestinian television on July 5th of last year, was also the headline chosen by the authors of Palestinian Media Watch as the title of their 40th research report. This report examines the social pressure exerted by the Palestinian Authority [PA] on children to die as "Shahids" [Death for Allah].
...Marcus and his colleagues have concluded that, having been exposed to such messages, young Palestinian children from the ages of six till nine play "death" games and role-play the dead. Children between the ages of 10 to 13 express the will to die, sometimes in televised interviews, and from the age of 14 some even take part in suicide attacks.

Id.

So, now, let's return to the coyote "question."

Yes. It's all just fiction. No children have ever been asked to wear a bomb vest. No mother has ever permitted herself to be blown to the hereafter in the name of Islam provided that she take-out some Joooos in the process.

It's all just a silly bit of confusion.

I seem to recall you having a fit over someone (me) putting words in your mouth that you did not say yet here you are doing the same thing

Back up a bit. Take some Xanax. Or whatever recreational deviency calms you down.

I never said "it's all just fiction". Nor have I said anything about mothers blowing themselves up (that topic has only just now been brought up). Nor do I use the perjorative "Joos". I'm just asking you for facts to support your really broad statements that seem to concemn all the Palestinian parents and - by implication- provide excuses for the settlers throwing stones (and teaching their children to throw stones) at Palestinian children.

Jooos trhowing rocks at Palistinians is of course bad. It deserves a thread to condemn it. But Palistinians (and other friendly Muslim peoples) strapping bombs on to themselves or their own children? Pffft. Nothing to see here. Move right along.

This is the only thread I can find on settlers stoning Palestinian children. On the other hand I find numerous condemnations in multiple threads on children and handicapped people used as suicide bombers. Sounds like you exagerate (or maybe it's obfuscate).

Moving right along indeed...yes, lets.

And if WE dare to call it by it's name -- the murder of one's own children, -- there are MANY of the apologists and propagandists more than READY to provide us with a dollop of corrective education:

No no. We are from the West. WE just don't "understand." It's not murder. It's martyrdom!

These people and their apologists are fucking sick.

More obfuscation. If someone disagrees with you they're "apologists and propagandists". The murder of one's own children is wrong - I don't think anyone really disagrees with that. But if you are going to generalize that the majority of Palestinians seek to murder their children then I disagree because in terms of sheer numbers it's not supported.

 

[jillian]

Lets not forget that the pali children play in a playground strewn with unexploded cluster munitions made in the USA and fired by Israel.

Not exactly a sesame street setting.

what on earth are you babbling about?

the pals are the ones who fired 3,000 missiles into S'derot..

they have 15 seconds to run from palestinian bombs

you don't see Israeli television telling their children to blow themselves up.

 

[Coyote]

Lets not forget that the pali children play in a playground strewn with unexploded cluster munitions made in the USA and fired by Israel.

Not exactly a sesame street setting.

The combination of severe overcrowding, a non-existent economy, terrible poverty, blockades, broken up families and a lack of control over your own destiny create situation where there is no hope and where there is no hope there is nothing to lose.

It's a dangerous situation and it's no wonder why so many teens there see martyrdom as a way out.

 

[Mr. Capitalism]

Ok Liability, we get it, the settlers do nothing wrong. Is that what you are arguing?

 

[Coyote]

Lets not forget that the pali children play in a playground strewn with unexploded cluster munitions made in the USA and fired by Israel.

Not exactly a sesame street setting.

what on earth are you babbling about?

the pals are the ones who fired 3,000 missiles into S'derot..

they have 15 seconds to run from palestinian bombs

you don't see Israeli television telling their children to blow themselves up.

You mean rockets? Despite that "15 seconds" there is surprisingly little loss of life. Unlike many of the Arab Israeli villages that are on the border areas (and receive rocket fire) at least the Jewish villages have bomb shelters.

 

[jillian]

puleeze....

i want my family land back in belarus.

what do you think my chances are of getting it?

oh...right... we don't stand at borders and blow up innocents.

if the mexicans did to us what the pals do in israel, the U.S. would flatten them and no one would think twice.

 

[Charles Stucker]

Suppose "my" group comes to a place where you and your family have lived, and owned land for hundreds of years, and we just decide to take it from you, you gonna just roll over and go to another country?

Let me see if I can 'slpain Lucy
Under Ottoman rule, the Turks owned all land
In the 1920's, during British rule, Jews bought land from the Turks.
The Arabs rioted so much, because they hated the Jews having property, that the British decided in the 1930's to restrict Jewish immigration to ease the problem.
After WWII the British. feeling guilty about their actions decided to cede the territory to a Jewish government.
The Arabs in Palestine had not owned the land in centuries. The only time they did was when they had stolen it form the previous Jewish owners during the Islamic conquest.
The Arabs living in the 'Palestinian territories' decided to vacate because they were determined, with the aid of their Islamic brethren, to STEAL the land from the rightful owners, the ones who had legally bought the land, the Jews of Israel.

Learn a few facts.

If I was renting property and someone bought it from the owner and then told me I had to move at the end of my lease and I then vacated before the end of my lease I would be on extremely unsound legal ground insisting that the owner return "my house" to me.

Yeah yeah, throwing rocks at kids is terrible. Horrible, naughty Joooooooooooos
So much worse than blowing them up with bombs. Because Islam is all about peace, or is that the peace of the grave.

 

[jillian]

Lets not forget that the pali children play in a playground strewn with unexploded cluster munitions made in the USA and fired by Israel.

Not exactly a sesame street setting.

what on earth are you babbling about?

the pals are the ones who fired 3,000 missiles into S'derot..

they have 15 seconds to run from palestinian bombs

you don't see Israeli television telling their children to blow themselves up.

You mean rockets? Despite that "15 seconds" there is surprisingly little loss of life. Unlike many of the Arab Israeli villages that are on the border areas (and receive rocket fire) at least the Jewish villages have bomb shelters.

so your gauge is competence? *shrug*

luckily israel is pretty good at keeping most of it out.

much to the chagrin of the terrorist supporters.

15 Seconds

 

[bodecea]

I keep looking for the ones with actual valid symmetry. You know. The ones that would show the Israelis strapping bomb vests on to their children?

You couldn't find any of those images, either, now, could you?

Yet, for some weird reason, it isn't terribly difficult to find such images of Palistinians, and other Islamic types, doing such monstrous behavior to and with THEIR own children.

Hm. Go figure.

A minor point of fact...those with the biggest army and arms rarely HAVE TO resort to strapping bombs on themselves. They use tanks and planes. It's the Underdog that has to use such extreme tactics as suicide bombs and homemade devices.

How utterly disgraceful of you. You actually are now pretending to be justifying that barbarity because the Palistinians are (allegedly) the "underdog."

Oh, and the discussion is about them strapping bombs to the CHILDREN not "to themselves." You are just not able to be honest. Strapping bombs to oneself is twisted enough, but to do it TO their own children?

It takes a special kind of degenerate garbage to pretend that such behavior is justified or justifiable.

Only someone choosing to be bitter and nasty about anything I post would say I am justifying blowing oneself up. I am simply pointing out that those with the advanced weaponry have no need to blow themselves up. They have tanks and planes for that blowing up part. It's the ones (no matter who they are) who are without the tanks and planes who resort to desperate measures...and have thruout history.

It's like asking why American pilots didn't kamikaze in the last months of WWII...no need to.

It's like asking why American soldiers didn't develop tunnel systems and pungi (sp?) sticks in Viet Nam...no need to.

It's like asking why American soldiers didn't use bows and arrows when fighting Native Americans...no need to.

(For the bitter, nasty, and intellectually challenged...those examples were in no way endorsements or 'justifications' of such forms of fighting back.)