What Kind of People Treat Children This Way?

[Contessa_Sharra]

History someone forgot: Middle East Non Grata -- Printout -- TIME

The above tells about how George Shultz sabotaged the Peace negotiations... this was Reagan's watch.

The Avalon Project : United Nations Security Council Resolution 242

1989: Israeli Peace Proposal - Under pressure from the US following the Palestine National Council declaration of acceptance of UN Resolutions 242 and 338, Israel issues a peace plan for negotiations with the Palestinians, but not with the PLO.
1988: Speech by PLO Chairman Yasser Arafat, Recognizing Resolution 242 - Under internal pressure, as well as pressure from the United States, Yasser Arafat declares that the PLO recognizes UN resolution 242. ​

from this page: Middle East Conflict and Peace Process Source Documents​

To me there is kind of a direct line from Shultz to certain adults throwing rocks at kids trying to get to school!​

And there are other lines of really reprehensible behavior.​

In all cases where children are put at hazard, there are always adults at fault!​

 

[Liability]

I keep looking for the ones with actual valid symmetry. You know. The ones that would show the Israelis strapping bomb vests on to their children?

You couldn't find any of those images, either, now, could you?

Yet, for some weird reason, it isn't terribly difficult to find such images of Palistinians, and other Islamic types, doing such monstrous behavior to and with THEIR own children.

Hm. Go figure.

Why would the oppressor resort to the tactics of the oppressed? Israel has tanks and airplanes; they've sealed Gaza off and can slaughter Palestinians as one shoots fish in a barrel. Suicide attacks occur out of desperation or when it is believed that they can be used to inflict an especially large amount of damage. Israel is certainly not desperate and can wreak far more havoc with the modern munitions they receive from us than they could with a detonator and an explosive vest. Somebody has already pointed out that there have been no documented self-detonations carried out by Palestinians under 16. I'm not sure why people insist on bringing it up and acting as if the incident described in the OP is the least bit related to it.

Youy are merely another one who is too blinded to even begin to comprehend the point.

These "tactics" of which you speakk; they are the use of one's own CHILDREN to serve as fucking bombs.

Any hint of support fot this is beyond sick and twisted. It's insane.

 

[Contessa_Sharra]

Lets not forget that the pali children play in a playground strewn with unexploded cluster munitions made in the USA and fired by Israel.

Not exactly a sesame street setting.

The combination of severe overcrowding, a non-existent economy, terrible poverty, blockades, broken up families and a lack of control over your own destiny create situation where there is no hope and where there is no hope there is nothing to lose.

It's a dangerous situation and it's no wonder why so many teens there see martyrdom as a way out.

Combine all of that with what seems to be very little Palestinian emigration being allowed, including to the US...

 

[Liability]

Lets not forget that the pali children play in a playground strewn with unexploded cluster munitions made in the USA and fired by Israel.

Not exactly a sesame street setting.

The combination of severe overcrowding, a non-existent economy, terrible poverty, blockades, broken up families and a lack of control over your own destiny create situation where there is no hope and where there is no hope there is nothing to lose.

It's a dangerous situation and it's no wonder why so many teens there see martyrdom as a way out.

Combine all of that with what seems to be very little Palestinian emigration being allowed, including to the US...

The modern anti-semitic anti-American anti-Israeli liberal from America seems to maintain that if a Palestinian teen sees his or her homeland as a gigantic cesspool of a trap, well then by Ali, it HAS TO BE clearly warranted that suicide/homicide bomb vests are THE thing to wear when gate crashing!


You've got the LOOK that's ALL together!
You've got the LOOK tha -- KABOOM!

 

[Charles Stucker]

Suppose "my" group comes to a place where you and your family have lived, and owned land for hundreds of years, and we just decide to take it from you, you gonna just roll over and go to another country?

Let me see if I can 'slpain Lucy
Under Ottoman rule, the Turks owned all land
In the 1920's, during British rule, Jews bought land from the Turks.
The Arabs rioted so much, because they hated the Jews having property, that the British decided in the 1930's to restrict Jewish immigration to ease the problem.
After WWII the British. feeling guilty about their actions decided to cede the territory to a Jewish government.
The Arabs in Palestine had not owned the land in centuries. The only time they did was when they had stolen it form the previous Jewish owners during the Islamic conquest.
The Arabs living in the 'Palestinian territories' decided to vacate because they were determined, with the aid of their Islamic brethren, to STEAL the land from the rightful owners, the ones who had legally bought the land, the Jews of Israel.

Learn a few facts.

If I was renting property and someone bought it from the owner and then told me I had to move at the end of my lease and I then vacated before the end of my lease I would be on extremely unsound legal ground insisting that the owner return "my house" to me.

Yeah yeah, throwing rocks at kids is terrible. Horrible, naughty Joooooooooooos
So much worse than blowing them up with bombs. Because Islam is all about peace, or is that the peace of the grave.

Oh boy. Another retarded post.

So tell me Charlie...are you going to return your land to the Native American Tribes who originally (legally using your definition) owned it?

So you concede the point that the Arabs, who were living on land once owned by Turks and who freely sold that land to Jews did not have their land stolen?
Or do you deny property rights to the true owners when it suits you?

 

[Kalam]

These "tactics" of which you speakk; they are the use of one's own CHILDREN to serve as fucking bombs.

The non-occurrence of any such incident was addressed in my previous post. The relevance of this to the topic being discussed in this thread has yet to be addressed by you or anybody else. I recommend that we stay on topic.

 

[Coyote]

Let me see if I can 'slpain Lucy
Under Ottoman rule, the Turks owned all land
In the 1920's, during British rule, Jews bought land from the Turks.
The Arabs rioted so much, because they hated the Jews having property, that the British decided in the 1930's to restrict Jewish immigration to ease the problem.
After WWII the British. feeling guilty about their actions decided to cede the territory to a Jewish government.
The Arabs in Palestine had not owned the land in centuries. The only time they did was when they had stolen it form the previous Jewish owners during the Islamic conquest.
The Arabs living in the 'Palestinian territories' decided to vacate because they were determined, with the aid of their Islamic brethren, to STEAL the land from the rightful owners, the ones who had legally bought the land, the Jews of Israel.

Learn a few facts.

If I was renting property and someone bought it from the owner and then told me I had to move at the end of my lease and I then vacated before the end of my lease I would be on extremely unsound legal ground insisting that the owner return "my house" to me.

Yeah yeah, throwing rocks at kids is terrible. Horrible, naughty Joooooooooooos
So much worse than blowing them up with bombs. Because Islam is all about peace, or is that the peace of the grave.

Oh boy. Another retarded post.

So tell me Charlie...are you going to return your land to the Native American Tribes who originally (legally using your definition) owned it?

So you concede the point that the Arabs, who were living on land once owned by Turks and who freely sold that land to Jews did not have their land stolen?
Or do you deny property rights to the true owners when it suits you?

No Charlie. I am stating that this is one of the most idiotic claims to date.

How far back are you going to go before you decide it's finally ok to deny property rights to true owners or....does it only suit you in certain cases? Do those "rights" belong only to survivors or to their endless begat" over centuries?

When are you going to clamor to for a return of North America to the various tribal jurisdictions?

 

[Coyote]

The combination of severe overcrowding, a non-existent economy, terrible poverty, blockades, broken up families and a lack of control over your own destiny create situation where there is no hope and where there is no hope there is nothing to lose.

It's a dangerous situation and it's no wonder why so many teens there see martyrdom as a way out.

Combine all of that with what seems to be very little Palestinian emigration being allowed, including to the US...

The modern anti-semitic anti-American anti-Israeli liberal from America seems to maintain that if a Palestinian teen sees his or her homeland as a gigantic cesspool of a trap, well then by Ali, it HAS TO BE clearly warranted that suicide/homicide bomb vests are THE thing to wear when gate crashing!


You've got the LOOK that's ALL together!
You've got the LOOK tha -- KABOOM!

When people have nothing left to lose, life ceases to have much value including their own. That's hardly a new phenomenum or unique to the Palestinians.

 

[Againsheila]

You mean this isn't about the safety of children going to school????

NOT about children in the US. Please try to maintain focus.

You mean, how dare I pay attention to what's happening in my own neighborhood rather than what's happening 1/2 around the world????

Sorry, I've always thought we should take care of our own FIRST!!!!

Hi, you have received -4 reputation points from Contessa_Sharra.
Reputation was given for this post.

Comment:
for being deliberately obtuse, dense!

Regards,
Contessa_Sharra

You do know that rep thing goes both ways, and at the moment, my rep is higher than yours, right?

 

[AllieBaba]

Wow, that was nice of her.

Though how CS can accuse anyone of obtusity without dissolving into giggles, I don't know.

 

[Againsheila]

NOT about children in the US. Please try to maintain focus.

You mean, how dare I pay attention to what's happening in my own neighborhood rather than what's happening 1/2 around the world????

Sorry, I've always thought we should take care of our own FIRST!!!!

That is all well and good, but start another thread about child safety in the US of A.

This is about specific instances of specific mistreatment of children who live in one particular place. You seem to have a very hard time getting that.

Contrary to what YOU think, everything is NOT about YOU, nor is everything about ONLY what happens in this country.

Oh, I think I've got it, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong...you are extremely concerned about Muslim children 1/2 way around the world and don't give a hoot about the children having rocks thrown at them right here in our own backyards? Is that right?

Would you still be as apathetic if the children here were Muslim too?

Throwing rocks at children, picking on children is wrong...it doesn't matter where it is...but I find it curious that you are more concerned with children in another country than our own children here...and FYI, you brought up the conversation about children and the dangers they face, excuse me for trying to point out that it's not exclusive to the Isreali/Palistinian area.

And neg reping me because I am more concerned about our own children than the ones you brought up is just plain petty.

 

[jillian]

Or you.

Perhaps you can account for the many references by Israel's leading historical and political figures to taking and holding land occupied by Arabs? Or statements made by the settlers themselves? Or, is your knowledge of history a selective one?

mine? no....but yours certainly is. and no matter how many times you say otherwise, you still haven't a clue what you're talking about.

people win and lose land all the time. do you think mexico should have texas and california? do you think that the native americans should be given back the land they lost?

come on.... you gonna fight for my right to have my ancestral property in belarus?

or are you just another idiot romanticizing terrorists?

don't bother answering... the question is rhetorical.

 

[Againsheila]

Oh boy. Another retarded post.

So tell me Charlie...are you going to return your land to the Native American Tribes who originally (legally using your definition) owned it?

So you concede the point that the Arabs, who were living on land once owned by Turks and who freely sold that land to Jews did not have their land stolen?
Or do you deny property rights to the true owners when it suits you?

No Charlie. I am stating that this is one of the most idiotic claims to date.

How far back are you going to go before you decide it's finally ok to deny property rights to true owners or....does it only suit you in certain cases? Do those "rights" belong only to survivors or to their endless begat" over centuries?

When are you going to clamor to for a return of North America to the various tribal jurisdictions?

Most (not all) American Indians didn't believe in owning land. They were nomads. They would move into an area, use up the resources and then move on. It's only when so many settlers came that they didn't have all that free range to move in that the Indians started to complain. Heck, in the beginning, they joined with the English to fight the Americans. That how we got scalps from, originally the Indians would bring in the heads of those they killed, and were paid a bounty by the English, but it got too cumbersome, so they settled on just the scalps.

The Indians also warred amongst themselves and took slaves from rival tribes...they weren't the goody two shoes you seem to think they were. And since they didn't believe in owning land, why would you think someone could steal it from them?

 

[Coyote]

So you concede the point that the Arabs, who were living on land once owned by Turks and who freely sold that land to Jews did not have their land stolen?
Or do you deny property rights to the true owners when it suits you?

No Charlie. I am stating that this is one of the most idiotic claims to date.

How far back are you going to go before you decide it's finally ok to deny property rights to true owners or....does it only suit you in certain cases? Do those "rights" belong only to survivors or to their endless begat" over centuries?

When are you going to clamor to for a return of North America to the various tribal jurisdictions?

Most (not all) American Indians didn't believe in owning land. They were nomads. They would move into an area, use up the resources and then move on. It's only when so many settlers came that they didn't have all that free range to move in that the Indians started to complain. Heck, in the beginning, they joined with the English to fight the Americans. That how we got scalps from, originally the Indians would bring in the heads of those they killed, and were paid a bounty by the English, but it got too cumbersome, so they settled on just the scalps.

The Indians also warred amongst themselves and took slaves from rival tribes...they weren't the goody two shoes you seem to think they were. And since they didn't believe in owning land, why would you think someone could steal it from them?

What gave you the idea that I ever thought they were "goody two shoes"?

Whether they believed in land ownership or not is irrelevant. At many points in history the U.S. Government made and broke treaties with them giving them certain lands. That is ownership.

 

[Coyote]

Or you.

Perhaps you can account for the many references by Israel's leading historical and political figures to taking and holding land occupied by Arabs? Or statements made by the settlers themselves? Or, is your knowledge of history a selective one?

mine? no....but yours certainly is. and no matter how many times you say otherwise, you still haven't a clue what you're talking about.

I'm beginning to think that you don't either.

people win and lose land all the time. do you think mexico should have texas and california? do you think that the native americans should be given back the land they lost?

Of course they do. I have never argued otherwise nor have I ever argued that Mexico should those lands etc. etc.

come on.... you gonna fight for my right to have my ancestral property in belarus?

Again, I've never made that claim.

or are you just another idiot romanticizing terrorists?

don't bother answering... the question is rhetorical.

No, you've convinced me. You really are an idiot. I was willing to entertain doubt but no longer.

Romanticizing terrorists? Is that what you call it when someone is critical of Israel?

There are a few glaring problems with the examples you gave above - aside from the fact that I have never advocated returning ancient lands nor would I nor do I advocate dismantling Israel and giving it all back to the Arabs which is something you seem to be implying.

The first problem is that while you blithly go on about ancestral Belarus you equally blithly ignore the fact that Israel was founded pretty much on just such a rationale. Now regardless of that - Israel is Israel and it's there to stay.

The other thing you ignore is that in all your silly examples - there are no stateless indigenous refugee populations to account for. In fact - there are no living people who were victims of those injustices. There are among the Palestinians. There were among the Japanese who were interned.

YOU may call it "romanticizing" but like the existance of Israel - the Palestinians are also "facts on the ground".

 

[Charles Stucker]

Whether they believed in land ownership or not is irrelevant. At many points in history the U.S. Government made and broke treaties with them giving them certain lands. That is ownership.

So are you claiming the Turks who held the deeds did not own the land they sold to the Jews?
Or does the truth not fit your "Jooooooooooooooos are evil" scenario?

 

[AllieBaba]

You mean, how dare I pay attention to what's happening in my own neighborhood rather than what's happening 1/2 around the world????

Sorry, I've always thought we should take care of our own FIRST!!!!

That is all well and good, but start another thread about child safety in the US of A.

This is about specific instances of specific mistreatment of children who live in one particular place. You seem to have a very hard time getting that.

Contrary to what YOU think, everything is NOT about YOU, nor is everything about ONLY what happens in this country.

Oh, I think I've got it, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong...you are extremely concerned about Muslim children 1/2 way around the world and don't give a hoot about the children having rocks thrown at them right here in our own backyards? Is that right?

Would you still be as apathetic if the children here were Muslim too?

Throwing rocks at children, picking on children is wrong...it doesn't matter where it is...but I find it curious that you are more concerned with children in another country than our own children here...and FYI, you brought up the conversation about children and the dangers they face, excuse me for trying to point out that it's not exclusive to the Isreali/Palistinian area.

And neg reping me because I am more concerned about our own children than the ones you brought up is just plain petty.

So please explain to me why we should only care about the children in our own country again? Are you incapable of caring about children who don't share your nationality? Is that it?

 

[Liability]

These "tactics" of which you speakk; they are the use of one's own CHILDREN to serve as fucking bombs.

The non-occurrence of any such incident was addressed in my previous post. The relevance of this to the topic being discussed in this thread has yet to be addressed by you or anybody else. I recommend that we stay on topic.

You cannot "address" the alleged non-occurence of events that HAVE happened.

Sorry, but your fantasy world is of no real import in this discussion.

The relevance has been addressed by me several time. Do try to keep up. That way you might refrain from making ignorant, erroneous or dishonest statements. Possibly.

What kind of people is a question. Any of us may elect to ANSWSER that question in any number of ways. ONE answer is that certain Palestinians have treated their own children in a much worse way. (I am addressing the occurences which are historical fact,; not your fanatasy world of baseless denials).

You happen not to much like that answer or where it steers this stupid discussion. Good.

 

[Liability]

Combine all of that with what seems to be very little Palestinian emigration being allowed, including to the US...

The modern anti-semitic anti-American anti-Israeli liberal from America seems to maintain that if a Palestinian teen sees his or her homeland as a gigantic cesspool of a trap, well then by Ali, it HAS TO BE clearly warranted that suicide/homicide bomb vests are THE thing to wear when gate crashing!


You've got the LOOK that's ALL together!
You've got the LOOK tha -- KABOOM!

When people have nothing left to lose, life ceases to have much value including their own. That's hardly a new phenomenum or unique to the Palestinians.

"Nothing left to lose." Such bullshit. But, even if it were true (and it isn't), the actual HUMAN reaction is absolutely NOT to think (much less act on the thought): "Say. I know. Let's weaponize our very own children!"

It is a mystery why you would persist to defend your position when it is obviously such a massive loser that it forces you to make the putrid arguments you have spewed here.

You need to get your head straightened out. It remains a horror and a perversion for any people to use their own children as weapons -- regardless of how bleakly they perceive their lot in life.

 

[Coyote]

The modern anti-semitic anti-American anti-Israeli liberal from America seems to maintain that if a Palestinian teen sees his or her homeland as a gigantic cesspool of a trap, well then by Ali, it HAS TO BE clearly warranted that suicide/homicide bomb vests are THE thing to wear when gate crashing!


You've got the LOOK that's ALL together!
You've got the LOOK tha -- KABOOM!

When people have nothing left to lose, life ceases to have much value including their own. That's hardly a new phenomenum or unique to the Palestinians.

"Nothing left to lose." Such bullshit. But, even if it were true (and it isn't), the actual HUMAN reaction is absolutely NOT to think (much less act on the thought): "Say. I know. Let's weaponize our very own children!"

I think it's not so clear cut. Except to you of course with your black/white perspective indifferent to context.

Most of the "child bombers" are mostly teens and it's sometimes disengenius to refer to them as "children". Israeli law treats those 14 and up as adults yet find it convenient to play them up as children in the media. 14 year olds are imprisoned WITH adults under Israeli law (that applies only to Palestinians). Now, I am curious - where is the condemnation here?

The median age in Gaza is 17. Compare that with Israel's median age of 29. The net migration rate in Gaza is zero. No one enters or leaves. The population is one of the densest in the world with a fraction of the resources controlled by their more powerful neighbors.

I'm not saying that what they are doing is "right" - I am saying that if you are going to condemn it, you better condemn the causes as well as the results because they are intertwined. But you don't. Not at all. You are a one-trick pony when it comes to Israel and the Palestinians.

It is a mystery why you would persist to defend your position when it is obviously such a massive loser that it forces you to make the putrid arguments you have spewed here.

You have yet to show that my position is wrong but hey - it's easy to be "right" when you ignore the bigger picture isn't it?

You need to get your head straightened out. It remains a horror and a perversion for any people to use their own children as weapons -- regardless of how bleakly they perceive their lot in life.

[/quote]

I agree but you persist in implying that this is endemic among the Palestinians and using that to refuse to look any deeper into the issue than the surface.