What Kind of People Treat Children This Way?

[Coyote]

Suppose "my" group comes to a place where you and your family have lived, and owned land for hundreds of years, and we just decide to take it from you, you gonna just roll over and go to another country?

Let me see if I can 'slpain Lucy
Under Ottoman rule, the Turks owned all land
In the 1920's, during British rule, Jews bought land from the Turks.
The Arabs rioted so much, because they hated the Jews having property, that the British decided in the 1930's to restrict Jewish immigration to ease the problem.
After WWII the British. feeling guilty about their actions decided to cede the territory to a Jewish government.
The Arabs in Palestine had not owned the land in centuries. The only time they did was when they had stolen it form the previous Jewish owners during the Islamic conquest.
The Arabs living in the 'Palestinian territories' decided to vacate because they were determined, with the aid of their Islamic brethren, to STEAL the land from the rightful owners, the ones who had legally bought the land, the Jews of Israel.

Learn a few facts.

If I was renting property and someone bought it from the owner and then told me I had to move at the end of my lease and I then vacated before the end of my lease I would be on extremely unsound legal ground insisting that the owner return "my house" to me.

Yeah yeah, throwing rocks at kids is terrible. Horrible, naughty Joooooooooooos
So much worse than blowing them up with bombs. Because Islam is all about peace, or is that the peace of the grave.

Oh boy. Another retarded post.

So tell me Charlie...are you going to return your land to the Native American Tribes who originally (legally using your definition) owned it?

 

[Mr. Capitalism]

Lets not forget that the pali children play in a playground strewn with unexploded cluster munitions made in the USA and fired by Israel.

Not exactly a sesame street setting.

what on earth are you babbling about?

the pals are the ones who fired 3,000 missiles into S'derot..

they have 15 seconds to run from palestinian bombs

you don't see Israeli television telling their children to blow themselves up.

6 of one, half dozen of the other. Palestinians fire rockets, Israelis fire missiles. While the Israelis seem to be markedly better at killing people with their attacks, neither has any room to claim the upper ground.

 

[Coyote]

Lets not forget that the pali children play in a playground strewn with unexploded cluster munitions made in the USA and fired by Israel.

Not exactly a sesame street setting.

what on earth are you babbling about?

the pals are the ones who fired 3,000 missiles into S'derot..

they have 15 seconds to run from palestinian bombs

you don't see Israeli television telling their children to blow themselves up.

6 of one, half dozen of the other. Palestinians fire rockets, Israelis fire missiles. While the Israelis seem to be markedly better at killing people with their attacks, neither has any room to claim the upper ground.

This.

 

[Liability]

A little more, although some of it is veiled in a discussion of modern fiction:

The Palestinian Culture of Death

I found a few lines of particular interest:

How the Palestinians create their culture of death From imra.org.il Thursday, January 9, 2003
Report: "Palestinian Media Watch": Pressures Exerted on Palestinian Children to seek Shahada - Death for Allah
TV: Child Writes to Mother, "Rejoice over My Death" By Nadav Shragai Ha'aretz January 8, 2003:
"Ask for Death - the life will be given to you." This slogan, which was broadcast on Palestinian television on July 5th of last year, was also the headline chosen by the authors of Palestinian Media Watch as the title of their 40th research report. This report examines the social pressure exerted by the Palestinian Authority [PA] on children to die as "Shahids" [Death for Allah].
...Marcus and his colleagues have concluded that, having been exposed to such messages, young Palestinian children from the ages of six till nine play "death" games and role-play the dead. Children between the ages of 10 to 13 express the will to die, sometimes in televised interviews, and from the age of 14 some even take part in suicide attacks.

Id.

So, now, let's return to the coyote "question."

Yes. It's all just fiction. No children have ever been asked to wear a bomb vest. No mother has ever permitted herself to be blown to the hereafter in the name of Islam provided that she take-out some Joooos in the process.

It's all just a silly bit of confusion.

I seem to recall you having a fit over someone (me) putting words in your mouth that you did not say yet here you are doing the same thing

Back up a bit. Take some Xanax. Or whatever recreational deviency calms you down.

I never said "it's all just fiction".

Calm yourself down, Nancy. Unwad your panties. When you "asked" your "question," there absolutely was an implication lurking in it. We both know it. And the implication was that "all of this is overblown."

But it really isn't, you see.

Nor have I said anything about mothers blowing themselves up (that topic has only just now been brought up).

Nor did I claim that YOU had brought up the issue of young mothers also doing that suicide/homicide bomber vest fashion thing. I was there when I just brought that up, in fact. But when a 22 year old mother with two kids does it for the greater glory of Allah, it does kind of relate to the discussion of parents in Palestine having their wee-ones doing the martyr routine.

Nor do I use the perjorative "Joos".

I'm proud of you!

I'm just asking you for facts to support your really broad statements that seem to concemn all the Palestinian parents and - by implication- provide excuses for the settlers throwing stones (and teaching their children to throw stones) at Palestinian children.

I have made no overly broad statements and nothing I have said "seems" to concern all Palestinian parents. That's just your (probably intentional) misreading and spin.

And I have not advanced the argument that throwing stones at children is (usually) either justified or justifiable. It is deplorable. But the discussion of a culture where having children wear bomb-vests is glorified DOES kinda actually pertain (whether you like it or not or admit it or not) to the "topic" of adults throwing stones at children. Throwing stones at kids, under most circumstances, is deplorable. Dressing children as bombs is always deplorable.

The balance of your silly whining post is largely just you repeating yourself. And your crap doesn't improve when repeated.

 

[Coyote]

what on earth are you babbling about?

the pals are the ones who fired 3,000 missiles into S'derot..

they have 15 seconds to run from palestinian bombs

you don't see Israeli television telling their children to blow themselves up.

You mean rockets? Despite that "15 seconds" there is surprisingly little loss of life. Unlike many of the Arab Israeli villages that are on the border areas (and receive rocket fire) at least the Jewish villages have bomb shelters.

so your gauge is competence? *shrug*

luckily israel is pretty good at keeping most of it out.

much to the chagrin of the terrorist supporters.

15 Seconds

Hmmm....once again, a total inability to grasp what is being talked about.

Not exactly an unbiased source is that?

They have 15 seconds.

The can get to a bomb shelter and apparently do.

The Arab villages do not have shelters for the most part while the Jewish villages do.

The Palestinians in Gaza had no place to go in the last attack so...even if they had 15 seconds there was no safe place.

Pretty simple isn't it? Once you concentrate.

 

[jillian]

6 of one, half dozen of the other. Palestinians fire rockets, Israelis fire missiles. While the Israelis seem to be markedly better at killing people with their attacks, neither has any room to claim the upper ground.

then maybe they should stop lobbing missiles.

really simple, actually.

 

[Mr. Capitalism]

6 of one, half dozen of the other. Palestinians fire rockets, Israelis fire missiles. While the Israelis seem to be markedly better at killing people with their attacks, neither has any room to claim the upper ground.

then maybe they should stop lobbing missiles.

really simple, actually.

You are right. Its going to take one of them to stop bombing the others and actually talk.

Sadly, neither side seems particularly interested in compromise, only in some shallow version of victory.

 

[jillian]

You are right. Its going to take one of them to stop bombing the others and actually talk.

Sadly, neither side seems particularly interested in compromise, only in some shallow version of victory.

more fabrication. Israel DID talk. And the U.S. paid billions to the PA to sit at the table... after wasting everyone's time, and putting huge sums of our money into Suha's French bank accounts, and Israel offering the PA 98% of what they asked for, Arafat said "oops...sorry... I can't make a deal or I'll be drinking tea with Rabin".

the problem is people like you who think that Israel has to let itself be destroyed by terrorists to make peace.

Do you think the U.S. would wait through 3,000 missiles over it's northern or southern borders before it retaliated?

And do you think the world would say "oooooh...bad U.S." when it did retaliate?

like i said... i want my great grandparents' land in Belarus back. It's rightfully mine, right?

or better yet... I want the land someone else had in a place i never lived in and where my family isn't from....

give it to me... NOW. I want it and I'm entitled.

Right?

 

[uscitizen]

puleeze....

i want my family land back in belarus.

what do you think my chances are of getting it?

oh...right... we don't stand at borders and blow up innocents.

if the mexicans did to us what the pals do in israel, the U.S. would flatten them and no one would think twice.

that is becuase we are so exceptional

 

[Mr. Capitalism]

You are right. Its going to take one of them to stop bombing the others and actually talk.

Sadly, neither side seems particularly interested in compromise, only in some shallow version of victory.

more fabrication. Israel DID talk. And the U.S. paid billions to the PA to sit at the table... after wasting everyone's time, and putting huge sums of our money into Suha's French bank accounts, and Israel offering the PA 98% of what they asked for, Arafat said "oops...sorry... I can't make a deal or I'll be drinking tea with Rabin".

the problem is people like you who think that Israel has to let itself be destroyed by terrorists to make peace.

Do you think the U.S. would wait through 3,000 missiles over it's northern or southern borders before it retaliated?

And do you think the world would say "oooooh...bad U.S." when it did retaliate?

like i said... i want my great grandparents' land in Belarus back. It's rightfully mine, right?

or better yet... I want the land someone else had in a place i never lived in and where my family isn't from....

give it to me... NOW. I want it and I'm entitled.

Right?

You can argue until you are blue in the face about who's land it rightfully is, but of course, after over 60 years of Israel being around, it doesn't really matter does it?

Israeli kids, Palestinian kids are growing up there and it is all they know. Neither set is going to move out and you aren't going to be able to kill all of them either.

Palestinians blow up pizza parlors and buses full of innocents.

Israelis bomb "military targets" and have "collateral damage" which amounts to the same thing. Innocent people dying.

Both sides are hampered by extremists in their midst. Be they Yigal Amir or Ahmed Yassin. Too many people don't want peace for there to be any hope of it. We can only hope a new generation of Palestinians and Israelis will help rid us of this old guard.

 

[Coyote]

Calm yourself down, Nancy. Unwad your panties. When you "asked" your "question," there absolutely was an implication lurking in it. We both know it. And the implication was that "all of this is overblown."

But it really isn't, you see.

I asked a direct question that should have a direct answer. The "implication" as you would say was this: put up or shut up. A question often asked when people make wide, sweeping claims which I erroneously thought you did.

...but I think that was pretty obvious no?

Nor did I claim that YOU had brought up the issue of young mothers also doing that suicide/homicide bomber vest fashion thing. I was there when I just brought that up, in fact. But when a 22 year old mother with two kids does it for the greater glory of Allah, it does kind of relate to the discussion of parents in Palestine having their wee-ones doing the martyr routine.

Nor do I use the perjorative "Joos".

I'm proud of you!

When you respond to me directly, then the implication is that I am or have said those things you are responding to. It's called accuracy. It's something - again - you got in a snit about when it was directed at you.

I'm just asking you for facts to support your really broad statements that seem to concemn all the Palestinian parents and - by implication- provide excuses for the settlers throwing stones (and teaching their children to throw stones) at Palestinian children.

I have made no overly broad statements and nothing I have said "seems" to concern all Palestinian parents. That's just your (probably intentional) misreading and spin.

And I have not advanced the argument that throwing stones at children is (usually) either justified or justifiable. It is deplorable. But the discussion of a culture where having children wear bomb-vests is glorified DOES kinda actually pertain (whether you like it or not or admit it or not) to the "topic" of adults throwing stones at children. Throwing stones at kids, under most circumstances, is deplorable. Dressing children as bombs is always deplorable.

The balance of your silly whining post is largely just you repeating yourself. And your crap doesn't improve when repeated.

Ok. Much as I hate to say it - after re-reading this thread - you are right on one thing. Mea Culpa.

Your first post:

And yet, I still say, that if one side does throw stones at kids, as bad as that is, it still doesn't even compare to the other side using their own kids as roving mines.

I read as an overly broad indictment of all the Palestinians and and excusing of the settlers.

Your next post, which clarifies your point - I totally missed reading.

NO children deserve to be stoned. And the "relative" small "overall" number of children used as bombs by the Palestinians is of NO comfort to the lucky ones selected for that "job."

I will now unknot my knickers.

 

[Coyote]

You are right. Its going to take one of them to stop bombing the others and actually talk.

Sadly, neither side seems particularly interested in compromise, only in some shallow version of victory.

more fabrication. Israel DID talk. And the U.S. paid billions to the PA to sit at the table... after wasting everyone's time, and putting huge sums of our money into Suha's French bank accounts, and Israel offering the PA 98% of what they asked for, Arafat said "oops...sorry... I can't make a deal or I'll be drinking tea with Rabin".

the problem is people like you who think that Israel has to let itself be destroyed by terrorists to make peace.

Do you think the U.S. would wait through 3,000 missiles over it's northern or southern borders before it retaliated?

And do you think the world would say "oooooh...bad U.S." when it did retaliate?

like i said... i want my great grandparents' land in Belarus back. It's rightfully mine, right?

or better yet... I want the land someone else had in a place i never lived in and where my family isn't from....

give it to me... NOW. I want it and I'm entitled.

Right?

Isn't that rather the desire of many Israeli's - often expressed in the words of their leading historical figures and of course the entire "settler" movement?

 

[Liability]

Ok Liability, we get it, the settlers do nothing wrong. Is that what you are arguing?

No, Mr. Crap. I said no such thing. And nothing I did say implied any such thing, either.

Throwing rocks at children is wrong. I know I heard that somewhere. Oh wait. That was ME who said it in this very thread -- more than once, in fact.

So, clearly, even the settlers are capable of doing something wrong.

And yet, in the world where it is so very crucial to point at them and intone the magic phrase, "Bad! Bad people. Filthy Jooos!" it doesn't seem to be quite so crucial to note that their own parents strapping bombs to those same children to use the little tykes as roving landmines is also bad.

In fact, dare we admit it? It's fucking WORSE!

 

[Liability]

A minor point of fact...those with the biggest army and arms rarely HAVE TO resort to strapping bombs on themselves. They use tanks and planes. It's the Underdog that has to use such extreme tactics as suicide bombs and homemade devices.

How utterly disgraceful of you. You actually are now pretending to be justifying that barbarity because the Palistinians are (allegedly) the "underdog."

Oh, and the discussion is about them strapping bombs to the CHILDREN not "to themselves." You are just not able to be honest. Strapping bombs to oneself is twisted enough, but to do it TO their own children?

It takes a special kind of degenerate garbage to pretend that such behavior is justified or justifiable.

Only someone choosing to be bitter and nasty about anything I post would say I am justifying blowing oneself up.

Not at all. Just someone who chooses to throw the truth back in your trollish face.

"It burns! It burns!"

Uhm. Good.

I am simply pointing out that those with the advanced weaponry have no need to blow themselves up.

Wrong again, ya stupid skanky troll bitch.

What you are simple-mindedly contending is that "if one lacks advanced weaponry one has a 'need' to 'resort' to the hidously subhuman behavior of using one's own CHILDREN as ordnance." And there's no point in even trying to engage in your usual deflection efforts. For YOU are the one who couched it as a "need," you vile skank. And even so, once again, you embrace the LIE. It is not THEMSELVES whom they CHOOSE to blow up. They USE their own CHILDREN.

You aren't just "vile" in the sense of a cusual perjorative used in an internet discussion. The kind of thinking you have demonstrated is a revelation that you are, personally, in real life, a horrendously vile human being.

 

[Mr. Capitalism]

Ok Liability, we get it, the settlers do nothing wrong. Is that what you are arguing?

No, Mr. Crap. I said no such thing. And nothing I did say implied any such thing, either.

Throwing rocks at children is wrong. I know I heard that somewhere. Oh wait. That was ME who said it in this very thread -- more than once, in fact.

So, clearly, even the settlers are capable of doing something wrong.

And yet, in the world where it is so very crucial to point at them and intone the magic phrase, "Bad! Bad people. Filthy Jooos!" it doesn't seem to be quite so crucial to note that their own parents strapping bombs to those same children to use the little tykes as roving landmines is also bad.

In fact, dare we admit it? It's fucking WORSE!

I see the post quoted above and I apologize for misunderstanding your position.

As I think I've also made mine perfectly clear in saying YECK to both of them.

 

[jillian]

Isn't that rather the desire of many Israeli's - often expressed in the words of their leading historical figures and of course the entire "settler" movement?

No...

perhaps you should try learning the history of the region. it might help you.

 

[Coyote]

Isn't that rather the desire of many Israeli's - often expressed in the words of their leading historical figures and of course the entire "settler" movement?

No...

perhaps you should try learning the history of the region. it might help you.

Or you.


Perhaps you can account for the many references by Israel's leading historical and political figures to taking and holding land occupied by Arabs? Or statements made by the settlers themselves? Or, is your knowledge of history a selective one?

 

[bodecea]

How utterly disgraceful of you. You actually are now pretending to be justifying that barbarity because the Palistinians are (allegedly) the "underdog."

Oh, and the discussion is about them strapping bombs to the CHILDREN not "to themselves." You are just not able to be honest. Strapping bombs to oneself is twisted enough, but to do it TO their own children?

It takes a special kind of degenerate garbage to pretend that such behavior is justified or justifiable.

Only someone choosing to be bitter and nasty about anything I post would say I am justifying blowing oneself up.

Not at all. Just someone who chooses to throw the truth back in your trollish face.

"It burns! It burns!"

Uhm. Good.

I am simply pointing out that those with the advanced weaponry have no need to blow themselves up.

Wrong again, ya stupid skanky troll bitch.

What you are simple-mindedly contending is that "if one lacks advanced weaponry one has a 'need' to 'resort' to the hidously subhuman behavior of using one's own CHILDREN as ordnance." And there's no point in even trying to engage in your usual deflection efforts. For YOU are the one who couched it as a "need," you vile skank. And even so, once again, you embrace the LIE. It is not THEMSELVES whom they CHOOSE to blow up. They USE their own CHILDREN.

You aren't just "vile" in the sense of a cusual perjorative used in an internet discussion. The kind of thinking you have demonstrated is a revelation that you are, personally, in real life, a horrendously vile human being.

If anyone is wondering why Liability is overly bitter and nasty towards anything I post, it's what rejection does to someone....even years later. Sad. But, I've gotten used to it and it's pretty much what I've come to expect from his engagements with me.

 

[Navy1960]

While generally everyone can agree that using a child for the purpose to furhter an agenda is not only dishonorable it is evil. These cowards that do this sort of thing are nothing but cowards and for the most part convince these children that they must take their lives to further a cause that they themselves are not willing to sacrifice for, case in point, Yasser Arrafat. Here is a man from Egypt that took up the cause of the people of the region even though he himself was egyptian. Over the years many like him sat safely and still do in hovels, Apts. and villas all over the region enjoying comforts the average person in settlements can only dream of, and all the while convince them to stap C-4 on themselves and kill even more innocent people all in the name of a cause. What is the response to that, the same innocent people who have for years been used, are still killed when the bombs and tanks come their way. Whats really sad about all this , is that both the jewish people and the palastinian people in that region share a common bond in the region and have more in common with one another than most peoples of most lands. The problem is that the extreme elements that control these people refuse to let them go and generally those elements are not even from that region. Let me say this if you were Israeli and heard on a daily basis from nation surrounding you, ones that had invaded you, and still to this day shoot rockets at your people, and some of those nations supply weapons to those very same people who kill you then of course you would be defensive and have every right to be defensive. Once these elements are REMOVED then you know what, the PEOPLE that are OF that land, both Israeli and Palastinian will be able to find the peace that has been so elusive because both of them are of the same land.

 

[Kalam]

I keep looking for the ones with actual valid symmetry. You know. The ones that would show the Israelis strapping bomb vests on to their children?

You couldn't find any of those images, either, now, could you?

Yet, for some weird reason, it isn't terribly difficult to find such images of Palistinians, and other Islamic types, doing such monstrous behavior to and with THEIR own children.

Hm. Go figure.

Why would the oppressor resort to the tactics of the oppressed? Israel has tanks and airplanes; they've sealed Gaza off and can slaughter Palestinians as one shoots fish in a barrel. Suicide attacks occur out of desperation or when it is believed that they can be used to inflict an especially large amount of damage. Israel is certainly not desperate and can wreak far more havoc with the modern munitions they receive from us than they could with a detonator and an explosive vest. Somebody has already pointed out that there have been no documented self-detonations carried out by Palestinians under 16. I'm not sure why people insist on bringing it up and acting as if the incident described in the OP is the least bit related to it.