CDZ What is torture?

[JimBowie1958]

Nobody dies of pain from enhanced interrogation. They just start losing their memory and cognitive functions, and bable insistently.

Not directly but in effect, yes, people can die from heart attacks and panic spasms that suffocate them brought on by pain. A good interrogator will have a doctor or a nurse present at all times.

A study published this year by Jane Goodman-Delahunty, of Australia's Charles Sturt University, interviewed 34 interrogators from Australia, Indonesia, and Norway who had handled 30 international terrorism suspects, including potential members of the Sri Lankan extremist group Tamil Tigers and the Norwegian-based Islamist group Ansar al Ismal. Delahunty asked the interrogators what strategies they used to gain information and what the outcomes of each interrogation session were.The winning technique, as BPS Research Digest notes, was immediately clear:

Disclosure was 14 times more likely to occur early in an interrogation when a rapport-building approach was used. Confessions were four times more likely when interrogators struck a neutral and respectful stance. Rates of detainee disclosure were also higher when they were interrogated in comfortable physical settings.

Yes, and I think I covered that in the OP. You need to use pain only as required depending on whether they are giving good data or not. The point is not to torture them for grins and giggles.

I know this does not satisfy the thirst for revenge, but it does work. Prisoners, particularly when they are isolated have a strong desire to communicate with the interrogator. They want to talk, maybe not revealing any great secrets but once they start talking, a skilled interrogator can extract valuable information.

I guess if you are a terrorist feeling a need to confess or just a dirt bag collaborator like John McCain, sure. But normal people that believe in what they are fighting for; no.

One thing that was interesting in this study was the prisoners didn't seem to be aware they were being interrogated. Once captured they believed they were going to be mistreated, tortured, and eventually killed by their interrogators. In one case, a prisoner actually asked the interrogator when he was going to be interrogated.

Torture Isn't Just Evil, It's Pointless

Just think about the type of interrogator who is willing to engage in a long ongoing interview process. Just think for a moment, please.

Do you really think that the best interrogators are going to dump all of their best methods on some random Western journalists? Or maybe they might want to engage in a little disinformation campaign so that none of their friends and family are more likely to be on the receiving end of interrogation?

Can you be any more naive?

 

[elektra]

I would think that the Deputy chief of the CIA's interrogation program should know what he's talking about when he said that waterboarding was ineffective.

We spend millions of dollars, countless hours, and risk American lives to capture these people. To risk physical and mental breakdowns that can make them useless when there are proven techniques that work more effectively and with less risk is just plain dumb.

More so then, lets say, Solzhenitsyn?

Proven techniques? Which technique is proven to work in 1 hour, that you speak of?

 

[elektra]

It is really a shame the Belgium authorities relied on asking nicely, while they interrogated the terrorists.

 

[Flopper]

Nobody dies of pain from enhanced interrogation. They just start losing their memory and cognitive functions, and bable insistently.

Not directly but in effect, yes, people can die from heart attacks and panic spasms that suffocate them brought on by pain. A good interrogator will have a doctor or a nurse present at all times.

A study published this year by Jane Goodman-Delahunty, of Australia's Charles Sturt University, interviewed 34 interrogators from Australia, Indonesia, and Norway who had handled 30 international terrorism suspects, including potential members of the Sri Lankan extremist group Tamil Tigers and the Norwegian-based Islamist group Ansar al Ismal. Delahunty asked the interrogators what strategies they used to gain information and what the outcomes of each interrogation session were.The winning technique, as BPS Research Digest notes, was immediately clear:

Disclosure was 14 times more likely to occur early in an interrogation when a rapport-building approach was used. Confessions were four times more likely when interrogators struck a neutral and respectful stance. Rates of detainee disclosure were also higher when they were interrogated in comfortable physical settings.

Yes, and I think I covered that in the OP. You need to use pain only as required depending on whether they are giving good data or not. The point is not to torture them for grins and giggles.

I know this does not satisfy the thirst for revenge, but it does work. Prisoners, particularly when they are isolated have a strong desire to communicate with the interrogator. They want to talk, maybe not revealing any great secrets but once they start talking, a skilled interrogator can extract valuable information.

I guess if you are a terrorist feeling a need to confess or just a dirt bag collaborator like John McCain, sure. But normal people that believe in what they are fighting for; no.

One thing that was interesting in this study was the prisoners didn't seem to be aware they were being interrogated. Once captured they believed they were going to be mistreated, tortured, and eventually killed by their interrogators. In one case, a prisoner actually asked the interrogator when he was going to be interrogated.

Torture Isn't Just Evil, It's Pointless

Just think about the type of interrogator who is willing to engage in a long ongoing interview process. Just think for a moment, please.

Do you really think that the best interrogators are going to dump all of their best methods on some random Western journalists? Or maybe they might want to engage in a little disinformation campaign so that none of their friends and family are more likely to be on the receiving end of interrogation?

Can you be any more naive?

There is loads of evidence that traditional interrogation techniques work and work well. There is no reason to use more dangerous methods that do not have a documented history of success, have been called ineffective by the CIA, produce more bad information than good, and draw international condemnation. It's just not worth it.

 

[Flopper]

I would think that the Deputy chief of the CIA's interrogation program should know what he's talking about when he said that waterboarding was ineffective.

We spend millions of dollars, countless hours, and risk American lives to capture these people. To risk physical and mental breakdowns that can make them useless when there are proven techniques that work more effectively and with less risk is just plain dumb.

More so then, lets say, Solzhenitsyn?

Proven techniques? Which technique is proven to work in 1 hour, that you speak of?

No interrogation technique is likely to work in an hour. Even enhanced techniques take days. Subjects that are being tortured do talk. The problem is they talk so much and yield so little information that it takes intelligence specialist too much time to determine what is real actionable intelligence and what isn't.

 

[elektra]

No interrogation technique is likely to work in an hour. Even enhanced techniques take days. Subjects that are being tortured do talk. The problem is they talk so much and yield so little information that it takes intelligence specialist too much time to determine what is real actionable intelligence and what isn't.

Great, so you admit your technique can not work in a hour, in a day, or weeks, excellent point. Claiming what the experts think is really a nice strawman.

 

[Liminal]

It is really a shame the Belgium authorities relied on asking nicely, while they interrogated the terrorists.

As if you would know what they did or didn't do.

 

[Liminal]

The OP is Torture, torture is many things, listening to people define everything the USA does to defend itself is torture. Those people could not win a war nor defend an Ambassador in Benghazi. It is up to the few, to do what you will not. People get to sit behind their TV's and watch what unfolds, relatively safe, while others sacrifice their lives.

It is a God Awful person of zero moral bearing that would deny those who must give their lives of the tools that do save their lives.

Yes, these high and mighty moralists do not care for life, anyone who denies torture is a legitimate tool during warfare is literally fighting against our own men, and now women, who are in combat.

Torture disgraces this nation and dishonors the men who torture. Nations that torture have no moral high ground to fall back on.

 

[elektra]

It is really a shame the Belgium authorities relied on asking nicely, while they interrogated the terrorists.

As if you would know what they did or didn't do.

Well, if you know what they did and did not do, kindly inform us, or piss off

 

[Liminal]

I would think that the Deputy chief of the CIA's interrogation program should know what he's talking about when he said that waterboarding was ineffective.

Yes, one would think that, but then one wouldnt expect anyone to spend millions of USD on research telling them that water is wet either.

Political Correctness demands that everything we can learn through history and common sense be dismissed in an appeal to objective authority that is neither objective nor authoritative. Any prisoner can tell you that when the torture starts most people will tell them anything that they know, and if they dont know anything they will insist on ignorance then finally just start making things up. Interrogators that know what they are doing can sort through the bullshit from the fact, but that obviously doesnt include people who need millions of USD in research to show them how its done.

But that aside, when the tables are turned and we are not looking at the problem from the targets point of view, suddenly all that 'I would sing like a Canary' stuff flies out the window and suddenly the world is full of iron man heroes who will die of pain rather than give up any actionable intell.

Give me a break.

Nobody dies of pain from enhanced interrogation. They just start losing their memory and cognitive functions, and bable insistently.

A study published this year by Jane Goodman-Delahunty, of Australia's Charles Sturt University, interviewed 34 interrogators from Australia, Indonesia, and Norway who had handled 30 international terrorism suspects, including potential members of the Sri Lankan extremist group Tamil Tigers and the Norwegian-based Islamist group Ansar al Ismal. Delahunty asked the interrogators what strategies they used to gain information and what the outcomes of each interrogation session were.The winning technique, as BPS Research Digest notes, was immediately clear:

Disclosure was 14 times more likely to occur early in an interrogation when a rapport-building approach was used. Confessions were four times more likely when interrogators struck a neutral and respectful stance. Rates of detainee disclosure were also higher when they were interrogated in comfortable physical settings.

I know this does not satisfy the thirst for revenge, but it does work. Prisoners, particularly when they are isolated have a strong desire to communicate with the interrogator. They want to talk, maybe not revealing any great secrets but once they start talking, a skilled interrogator can extract valuable information.

One thing that was interesting in this study was the prisoners didn't seem to be aware they were being interrogated. Once captured they believed they were going to be mistreated, tortured, and eventually killed by their interrogators. In one case, a prisoner actually asked the interrogator when he was going to be interrogated.

Torture Isn't Just Evil, It's Pointless

It's been demonstrated time and again that people being subjected to torture will tell you exactly what they think you want to hear.

 

[Liminal]

It is really a shame the Belgium authorities relied on asking nicely, while they interrogated the terrorists.

As if you would know what they did or didn't do.

Well, if you know what they did and did not do, kindly inform us, or piss off

No I don't think I will. Instead I'm going to hang around and repeatedly point out what a superficial non entity you are.

 

[Liminal]

Nobody dies of pain from enhanced interrogation. They just start losing their memory and cognitive functions, and bable insistently.

Not directly but in effect, yes, people can die from heart attacks and panic spasms that suffocate them brought on by pain. A good interrogator will have a doctor or a nurse present at all times.

A study published this year by Jane Goodman-Delahunty, of Australia's Charles Sturt University, interviewed 34 interrogators from Australia, Indonesia, and Norway who had handled 30 international terrorism suspects, including potential members of the Sri Lankan extremist group Tamil Tigers and the Norwegian-based Islamist group Ansar al Ismal. Delahunty asked the interrogators what strategies they used to gain information and what the outcomes of each interrogation session were.The winning technique, as BPS Research Digest notes, was immediately clear:

Disclosure was 14 times more likely to occur early in an interrogation when a rapport-building approach was used. Confessions were four times more likely when interrogators struck a neutral and respectful stance. Rates of detainee disclosure were also higher when they were interrogated in comfortable physical settings.

Yes, and I think I covered that in the OP. You need to use pain only as required depending on whether they are giving good data or not. The point is not to torture them for grins and giggles.

I know this does not satisfy the thirst for revenge, but it does work. Prisoners, particularly when they are isolated have a strong desire to communicate with the interrogator. They want to talk, maybe not revealing any great secrets but once they start talking, a skilled interrogator can extract valuable information.

I guess if you are a terrorist feeling a need to confess or just a dirt bag collaborator like John McCain, sure. But normal people that believe in what they are fighting for; no.

One thing that was interesting in this study was the prisoners didn't seem to be aware they were being interrogated. Once captured they believed they were going to be mistreated, tortured, and eventually killed by their interrogators. In one case, a prisoner actually asked the interrogator when he was going to be interrogated.

Torture Isn't Just Evil, It's Pointless

Just think about the type of interrogator who is willing to engage in a long ongoing interview process. Just think for a moment, please.

Do you really think that the best interrogators are going to dump all of their best methods on some random Western journalists? Or maybe they might want to engage in a little disinformation campaign so that none of their friends and family are more likely to be on the receiving end of interrogation?

Can you be any more naive?

There is loads of evidence that traditional interrogation techniques work and work well. There is no reason to use more dangerous methods that do not have a documented history of success, have been called ineffective by the CIA, produce more bad information than good, and draw international condemnation. It's just not worth it.

Donald Trump is the best recruiter ISIS could ever ask for.

 

[elektra]

Torture disgraces this nation and dishonors the men who torture. Nations that torture have no moral high ground to fall back on.

You certainly have the luxury of speaking from the high ground while our young men and now woman do the actual dying.

Liminal is a disgrace and the reason why terrorist attack us. Terrorists despise the weak, spineless, fools.

 

[Liminal]

All torture does is make us feel better, and at that point, we're not any better than ISIS themselves.

We are no better than people who buy and sell children as sexual slaves? We are no better than those who specifically target a religion? We must allow children to die or we are no better than ISIS.

You are no better than ISIS.

Matching the the inhuman acts of your enemy makes you no better. America is better than that because we are the good guys.

I think the question of whether as a Nation America is better than that is open to debate. I'd like to think and believe we are, but I can think of plenty of instances in which we don't behave as though we are.

Presently, I'm of a mind that America is selectively better than that in practice, but not consistently better. In the abstract, I think we aim to be better than that, but I think everyone else does too.

No one cares about your perception of the abstract.

 

[Liminal]

Torture disgraces this nation and dishonors the men who torture. Nations that torture have no moral high ground to fall back on.

You certainly have the luxury of speaking from the high ground while our young men and now woman do the actual dying.

Liminal is a disgrace and the reason why terrorist attack us. Terrorists despise the weak, spineless, fools.

Animals like you are the terrorists best friends.

 

[elektra]

Animals like you are the terrorists best friends.

And is that not what we want, to be friends with people from other parts of the World? I am glad to be their best friend but saddened to see that they must kill you because you are weak and pathetic.

 

[Liminal]

Animals like you are the terrorists best friends.

And is that not what we want, to be friends with people from other parts of the World? I am glad to be their best friend but saddened to see that they must kill you because you are weak and pathetic.

Terrorists like to exploit weak minded fools like yourself.

 

[elektra]

Terrorists like to exploit weak minded fools like yourself.

Right, they will ignore you because they see your mind as so strong? Terrorists actual give an IQ test, which will allow you to live and others to die?

This is fun, post again you mental giant.

 

[elektra]

No I don't think I will. Instead I'm going to hang around and repeatedly point out what a superficial non entity you are.

How is this working out for you?

 

[Liminal]

Terrorists like to exploit weak minded fools like yourself.

Right, they will ignore you because they see your mind as so strong? Terrorists actual give an IQ test, which will allow you to live and others to die?

This is fun, post again you mental giant.

If you were to be tortured they wouldn't gain much information about anything.