What is a man?

[Disir]

It mean's they are teaching the kid toxic masculinity and that woman and femininity is inherently inferior.

I agree to an extent. If this is some male adult role model telling a kid to assume responsibility for his actions that is one thing. Same thing as "grow up". That's the intent. Biological.

It becomes a toxic masculinity when say parents split up and dad leaves and says to number one son---you are the man of the house now. Anecdotal: there are women who then encounter problems with that kid when he attempts to exert dominance in the household because it is his right as a male. It is the assumption that women are inferior and are not capable of running the household. And as men they don't have to abide by rules. Some of those kids then attempt to take on more responsibility then what they are prepared for in how they treat their siblings (disciplinarian) and what they can and cannot do.

It can filter down in a two parent household the exact same way simply by watching it in action.

It definitely filters down through media stereotypes.

There are instances where it is instigating or granting approval for violence. Masculinity=respect=violence. Machismo. Femininity is simply a structured performance if we follow Butler. So is masculinity.

I was taught that being a man was about responsibilities not about rights, and I would hope that others are taught the same. Too many people get caught up in their rights and forget about their duties. If I ever said, "you are the man of the house now" to my son it would mean that he had a duty to listen to his mother and help her raise and protect the other children as much as he could. That he would have to take the responsibility to serve, not that he would have the right to lead.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

I agree with the bold.

How old of a son are you talking about? Could you explain help her raise and protect?

Are we talking normal babysitting here?

 

[Esmeralda]

What is your definition of a man? When someone tells a kid to act like a man, what does it mean? Is your definition of what it means to be a man different from the expectations of others?

My dad cooked and cleaned, did laundry, and was bad at all of it except for a few dishes he could put out spot on. My definition of a man would be the same as for any adult--someone who does what has to be done whether they like it or not.

Yep, being a man is all about character--decency, honesty, emotional maturity--being kind, caring, responsible. My parents often worked different shifts, and my mom often worked on the weekend. My dad didn't do cleaning, laundry or cooking, but he shopped and took care of us kids, took care of the house, yard and car. Took care of the animals. He fixed stuff, did a lot of DIY, and was a good father. He didn't drink or go out with the guys, etc. Instead of being interested in sports, hunting or fishing, he took the kids to the pool or the river to swim, supported our sporting activities, etc.

If this is about is a homosexual male a man? Yes. It's about character, not about who he is sexually attracted to. A homosexual male as a partner and father would do what needs to be done and what he can do, and be a responsible parent and partner.

 

[Disir]

Anathema,

This country wasn't destroyed at any given point. It was built, truth be told, on men, women and children that had been kidnapped from Africa, England and Ireland and forced into slavery and/or hard labor with little to no pay. That is your privilege. There is nothing clean or decent about it.

In fact, the Salem Witch trials came about out of the jealousy of women who owned property.

Women have always worked outside the home. Always. They were members of guilds, fought in military, and a few became pirates. Early medieval societies had the same. There were a lot of single women and men.

In Germany, father's had figured out how to circumvent the law to hand businesses to their daughters.

The natural order that you refer to is nothing more than state sponsored terror. So, I have to ask, what makes you think that you would wind up on the right side of that privilege?

 

[Asclepias]

[Citation needed]

Several thousand years of Western History. That's the best you're going to get. I do not and never have seen a need to defend my position to anyone else.

You need a new calendar. Several thousand?

 

[Asclepias]

What is your definition of a man? When someone tells a kid to act like a man, what does it mean? Is your definition of what it means to be a man different from the expectations of others?

A man is a male that walks his own path sometimes at odds with what everyone else thinks is right knowing or seeking the truth in matters and accepting the responsibility when he is wrong. In accepting he is wrong he loses no confidence and remains unapologetic in his quest.

When someone tells a kid to act like a man they are doing that kid harm. The kid is not a man yet and the statements directed at him should help him achieve that position not remind him of how he doesn't measure up. Usually they are repeating something that was told to them.

If your definition of being a man is not different than most peoples expectations i would look up the word follower. No one should be able to define what a man is to you but you yourself.

 

[emilynghiem]

What is your definition of a man? When someone tells a kid to act like a man, what does it mean? Is your definition of what it means to be a man different from the expectations of others?

It means to take responsibility for being self-governing, leading by example,
and enforcing principles directly by thought, word and action, and relations
with others in society.

 

[emilynghiem]

When you gotta ask that question, society is in trouble. In the olden times being a "man" was about duty, honor and Country and other things like responsibility. Modern pop-culture science would tend to judge a "man" by his sexuality. Responsibility in pop-culture jargon translates to finding the best technicians to kill the unborn life in a woman who thought she found a "man".

Who sets the criteria for honorable behavior? What constitutes honorable behavior?

When you are consistent with your own principles and standards,
whatever is honorable is established and whatever is dishonorable can be resolved.

Anything dishonorable, unethical, or wrongful can be shown to be in conflict with
someone's own goals, and is self-defeating on some level.

When one is completely honest and transparent, any such flaws or conflicts can
be addressed and resolved using each person's OWN understanding of what they
want and don't want in life and in relations with others.

 

[emilynghiem]

Women's Brains are different from Men's.

Women can cross over from one side of the brain to the other more easily
and use both sides, while Men generally stay "compartmentalized".

This correlates with a difference in how women are either spiritually or socially
conditioned to interact "in relation" with others and communicate on several levels
at once, verbal and nonverbal/intuitively, while men are conditioned to think/act/react "autonomously" and separate their territory and priority from others.

I was told the research on brains showed that gay men came closer to the patterns of women's thinking, which correlates with the artistic and communication styles of many gay men that are considered more feminine in their personality and interactions with others.

So there is a physical difference that correlates with social/spiritual conditions,
whether you believe these come from nature or nurture.

I believe it is related to the capacity of women as mothers to "communicate" nonverbally with children before they learn to use language to communicate verbally; so this could be either a spiritual or social condition and/or a physical difference in capacity or design.

Either way, the conditions seem to "correlate" even if we do not agree on causality.

Sexual reproduction, I get it. You still have not provided any evidence of WHY women should be subservient to men other "than that's way things have been".

It's by no means just "reproductive issues". It's the whole slew of differences between Men and women, as shown by the fact that in many physical jobs, the criteria for women have to be reduced in order for them to qualify.

Men and women were designed for different roles in life. Physically, mentally, and emotionally. Men were designed to be the leaders, the warriors, the hunters and protectors. Women were designed to support the Men by doing the "domestic" work, raising the children and the like. I don't think it takes a wall full of PHD's to figure that out.

Nonsense! Take a look at nature. Female predators do just as much hunting as the males while still managing to raise their young. The roles you assign to females are societal as opposed to natural. Yes, there are physical differences between males and females in nature too. In some instance the females are bigger and stronger than the males. When it comes to seahorses it is the males that become pregnant and carry the young. Today's society shows that both men and women are capable of doing the same jobs.

So your premise doesn't hold up under scrutiny.

 

[MaxGrit]

What is your definition of a man? When someone tells a kid to act like a man, what does it mean? Is your definition of what it means to be a man different from the expectations of others?

A man is a male that walks his own path sometimes at odds with what everyone else thinks is right knowing or seeking the truth in matters and accepting the responsibility when he is wrong. In accepting he is wrong he loses no confidence and remains unapologetic in his quest.

When someone tells a kid to act like a man they are doing that kid harm. The kid is not a man yet and the statements directed at him should help him achieve that position not remind him of how he doesn't measure up. Usually they are repeating something that was told to them.

If your definition of being a man is not different than most peoples expectations i would look up the word follower. No one should be able to define what a man is to you but you yourself.

Act like a man reminds the kid to think of how his responsible father acts in a situation like the one he is facing.

Telling kids to act like a man is meaningless if there is no manly father figure for the kid to model himself after.

 

[Asclepias]

What is your definition of a man? When someone tells a kid to act like a man, what does it mean? Is your definition of what it means to be a man different from the expectations of others?

A man is a male that walks his own path sometimes at odds with what everyone else thinks is right knowing or seeking the truth in matters and accepting the responsibility when he is wrong. In accepting he is wrong he loses no confidence and remains unapologetic in his quest.

When someone tells a kid to act like a man they are doing that kid harm. The kid is not a man yet and the statements directed at him should help him achieve that position not remind him of how he doesn't measure up. Usually they are repeating something that was told to them.

If your definition of being a man is not different than most peoples expectations i would look up the word follower. No one should be able to define what a man is to you but you yourself.

Act like a man reminds the kid to think of how his responsible father acts in a situation like the one he is facing.

Telling kids to act like a man is meaningless if there is no manly father figure for the kid to model himself after.

What if his father is not responsible?

You shouldn't tell anyone to act like a man. You ask that kid questions that lead him toward being a man. If you simply tell someone something, you never know if your words actually worked or turned the person off. Asking questions will produce feed back and shows leadership. Most men know that.

 

[MaxGrit]

It's by no means just "reproductive issues". It's the whole slew of differences between Men and women, as shown by the fact that in many physical jobs, the criteria for women have to be reduced in order for them to qualify.

Men and women were designed for different roles in life. Physically, mentally, and emotionally. Men were designed to be the leaders, the warriors, the hunters and protectors. Women were designed to support the Men by doing the "domestic" work, raising the children and the like. I don't think it takes a wall full of PHD's to figure that out.

Nonsense! Take a look at nature. Female predators do just as much hunting as the males while still managing to raise their young. The roles you assign to females are societal as opposed to natural. Yes, there are physical differences between males and females in nature too. In some instance the females are bigger and stronger than the males. When it comes to seahorses it is the males that become pregnant and carry the young. Today's society shows that both men and women are capable of doing the same jobs.

So your premise doesn't hold up under scrutiny.

What the fuck is that dumbshit comparison? How stupid are you to think that's a good comparison?

Fuck how come every single time I notice a feminist they're fucking dumb as rocks.

 

[MaxGrit]

A man is a male that walks his own path sometimes at odds with what everyone else thinks is right knowing or seeking the truth in matters and accepting the responsibility when he is wrong. In accepting he is wrong he loses no confidence and remains unapologetic in his quest.

When someone tells a kid to act like a man they are doing that kid harm. The kid is not a man yet and the statements directed at him should help him achieve that position not remind him of how he doesn't measure up. Usually they are repeating something that was told to them.

If your definition of being a man is not different than most peoples expectations i would look up the word follower. No one should be able to define what a man is to you but you yourself.

Act like a man reminds the kid to think of how his responsible father acts in a situation like the one he is facing.

Telling kids to act like a man is meaningless if there is no manly father figure for the kid to model himself after.

What if his father is not responsible?

You shouldn't tell anyone to act like a man. You ask that kid questions that lead him toward being a man. If you simply tell someone something, you never know if your words actually worked or turned the person off. Asking questions will produce feed back and shows leadership. Most men know that.

Bad for the kid if no responsible father. Kid will struggle to learn how to be responsible in later life. All because his father didn't act like a man.

Kids are not adults and do not have the brain capacity to understand abstract concepts. Young kids need to be told what to do and shown how to do it by a man. Most of the time that man is their father. Kids model their actions and behavior after their father.

You need to act like a man. Take responsibility for the accuracy of what you say. What do you think you can do to help you develop that skill?

 

[Disir]

What is your definition of a man? When someone tells a kid to act like a man, what does it mean? Is your definition of what it means to be a man different from the expectations of others?

A man is a male that walks his own path sometimes at odds with what everyone else thinks is right knowing or seeking the truth in matters and accepting the responsibility when he is wrong. In accepting he is wrong he loses no confidence and remains unapologetic in his quest.

When someone tells a kid to act like a man they are doing that kid harm. The kid is not a man yet and the statements directed at him should help him achieve that position not remind him of how he doesn't measure up. Usually they are repeating something that was told to them.

If your definition of being a man is not different than most peoples expectations i would look up the word follower. No one should be able to define what a man is to you but you yourself.

I strongly agree with what I bolded. I think there is a huge leap that kids have to make between point A and point B that only time and experience can bring. I think the time and experience comes after having tried to live up to other people's expectations. Females do the same thing.

 

[Disir]

What is your definition of a man? When someone tells a kid to act like a man, what does it mean? Is your definition of what it means to be a man different from the expectations of others?

A man is a male that walks his own path sometimes at odds with what everyone else thinks is right knowing or seeking the truth in matters and accepting the responsibility when he is wrong. In accepting he is wrong he loses no confidence and remains unapologetic in his quest.

When someone tells a kid to act like a man they are doing that kid harm. The kid is not a man yet and the statements directed at him should help him achieve that position not remind him of how he doesn't measure up. Usually they are repeating something that was told to them.

If your definition of being a man is not different than most peoples expectations i would look up the word follower. No one should be able to define what a man is to you but you yourself.

Act like a man reminds the kid to think of how his responsible father acts in a situation like the one he is facing.

Telling kids to act like a man is meaningless if there is no manly father figure for the kid to model himself after.

All men are models. Uncles, grandfathers, older brothers, cousins, neighbors, religious leaders, the store owner, the epitome of coolness on the screen, and in some cases the dealer down the street.

They are going to make comparisons in how to handle different situations. Kids go through this phase where they seek independence and reject everything that their parents stand for.

 

[Disir]

When you gotta ask that question, society is in trouble. In the olden times being a "man" was about duty, honor and Country and other things like responsibility. Modern pop-culture science would tend to judge a "man" by his sexuality. Responsibility in pop-culture jargon translates to finding the best technicians to kill the unborn life in a woman who thought she found a "man".

Who sets the criteria for honorable behavior? What constitutes honorable behavior?

When you are consistent with your own principles and standards,
whatever is honorable is established and whatever is dishonorable can be resolved.

Anything dishonorable, unethical, or wrongful can be shown to be in conflict with
someone's own goals, and is self-defeating on some level.

When one is completely honest and transparent, any such flaws or conflicts can
be addressed and resolved using each person's OWN understanding of what they
want and don't want in life and in relations with others.

Horizontal honor is defined as the “right to respect among an exclusive society of equals.”

Horizontal honor = mutual respect. But don’t let the term “mutual respect” fool you. We’re not talking about the sort of watered-down “respect-me-simply-because-I’m-a-human-being” kind of respect that pervades our modern culture. For horizontal honor to mean anything, it must be contingent upon certain unyielding standards in order to maintain honor within the group.

The existence of horizontal honor is premised on three elements:

A code of honor. A code of honor lays out the standards that must be reached in order for a person to receive respect within a group. These rules outline what it takes to obtain honor (or respect), and how it may be lost. That last stipulation is paramount: honor that cannot be lost is not honor.

Codes of honor often lay out very high standards for the group, but despite their difficulty, codes of honor are always viewed as minimum standards for inclusion. If you can’t meet them, then you’re seen as deficient, even despicable, and are thus shamed.

An honor group. An honor group consists of individuals who understand and have committed to live the code of honor. That everyone in the group has done this is understood by all other members of the group. Because honor depends on respect, an honor group must be a society of equals. Honor is based on the judgments of other members in the group, therefore the opinion of those members must matter to you, and they won’t if you don’t see them as your equals. Respect is a two-way street. While you might respect someone above you in the social pecking order, it’s hard to respect someone you think is beneath you.

Honor groups must also be exclusive. If everyone and anyone can be part of the group, regardless of whether they live by the code or not, then honor becomes meaningless. Egalitarianism and honor cannot coexist.

Finally, the honor group needs to be tight-knit and intimate. A society governed by mutual respect requires everyone in the society to know each other and interact face-to-face. Honor cannot exist in a society where anonymity dominates.

Shame. A person who fails to live up to the group’s code loses his honor — his right to the respect of the other honor group members as equals. A healthy feeling of shame, or the recognition that a person has failed to live up to the honor group’s code is necessary for honor to exist. When individuals stop caring whether they’ve lost their right to respect in the group (i.e. living without shame), honor loses its power to compel and check individuals’ behavior.

Horizontal honor is an all-or-nothing game. You either have the respect of your peers or you don’t. Bringing dishonor upon yourself by failing to meet the minimum standards of the group (or showing disdain or indifference for those standards) means exclusion from the group, as well as shame. Thus, in a tribe/team/group/gang, horizontal honor serves as a dividing line between us and them, between the honorable and the despicable.

I like to think of horizontal honor as your membership card into a club. To get the card, you need to meet a baseline of criteria. When you present the card at the clubhouse door, you have access to all the rights and privileges that come with being a member of that club. To maintain your status and inclusion in the club, you must conform to the club rules. Failure to conform results in your membership card being taken away and exclusion from the club.

This card analogy still resonates today in the few corrupted threads of honor that remain in our culture. Men will talk about taking away each other’s “man cards” — but the violations that invoke this mocking “punishment” are for frivolous things like drinking a fruity cocktail at a bar, and bear only the faintest echoes of the original code of men.

Vertical Honor
Vertical honor, on the other hand, isn’t about mutual respect, but is rather about giving praise and esteem to those “who are superior, whether by virtue of their abilities, their rank, their services to the community, their sex, their kinship, their office, or anything else.” (Stewart p. 59). Vertical honor, by its nature, is hierarchical and competitive. Vertical honor goes to the man who not only lives the code of honor, but excels at doing so.

So, vertical honor = praise, esteem, admiration.

In What Is Honor? Alexander Welsh makes the case that for vertical honor to exist, horizontal honor must first be present. Without a baseline of mutual respect among equal peers (horizontal honor), winning praise and esteem (vertical honor) means very little.

To illustrate this point, imagine you write a novel. Your mom and dad say it’s the best thing they’ve ever read. Two published novelists also read it and say it’s the best thing they’ve ever read. Whose praise means more to you?

The praise from the other novelists, of course.

Sure, kudos from your parents is nice, but their opinion doesn’t mean too much to you because you don’t respect them as fellow writers. Getting praise from your fellow writers? That means a lot.

To add on to my club analogy, vertical honor is like the awards and trophies that clubs bestow on members. To even be considered for the award, you need to be a member of the club; you need the membership card (horizontal honor). But being a card carrying member isn’t enough. To win a trophy, you must distinguish yourself from your peers by outperforming them and achieving excellence according to the club’s code.

Honor = Reputation
What is Honor? | The Art of Manliness

That is a very interesting collection of articles in the above link.

 

[Disir]

It's by no means just "reproductive issues". It's the whole slew of differences between Men and women, as shown by the fact that in many physical jobs, the criteria for women have to be reduced in order for them to qualify.

Men and women were designed for different roles in life. Physically, mentally, and emotionally. Men were designed to be the leaders, the warriors, the hunters and protectors. Women were designed to support the Men by doing the "domestic" work, raising the children and the like. I don't think it takes a wall full of PHD's to figure that out.

Nonsense! Take a look at nature. Female predators do just as much hunting as the males while still managing to raise their young. The roles you assign to females are societal as opposed to natural. Yes, there are physical differences between males and females in nature too. In some instance the females are bigger and stronger than the males. When it comes to seahorses it is the males that become pregnant and carry the young. Today's society shows that both men and women are capable of doing the same jobs.

So your premise doesn't hold up under scrutiny.

What the fuck is that dumbshit comparison? How stupid are you to think that's a good comparison?

Fuck how come every single time I notice a feminist they're fucking dumb as rocks.

Because of the location of this thread, I am going to ignore your statement.

 

[Asclepias]

Act like a man reminds the kid to think of how his responsible father acts in a situation like the one he is facing.

Telling kids to act like a man is meaningless if there is no manly father figure for the kid to model himself after.

What if his father is not responsible?

You shouldn't tell anyone to act like a man. You ask that kid questions that lead him toward being a man. If you simply tell someone something, you never know if your words actually worked or turned the person off. Asking questions will produce feed back and shows leadership. Most men know that.

Bad for the kid if no responsible father. Kid will struggle to learn how to be responsible in later life. All because his father didn't act like a man.

Kids are not adults and do not have the brain capacity to understand abstract concepts. Young kids need to be told what to do and shown how to do it by a man. Most of the time that man is their father. Kids model their actions and behavior after their father.

You need to act like a man. Take responsibility for the accuracy of what you say. What do you think you can do to help you develop that skill?

Kids do have the ability to understand abstract concepts but thats not the point. I said ask questions that lead them to and develop their ability to become a man. You can tell a kid only so much before he starts to tune you out. I ask questions of my children that make them think and come up with the right answer.

I dont think you have a clue what a man is. I think you need to ask yourself why you have failed to become one and what you plan to do to fix that problem.