Zone1 What is a Jew?

[theHawk]

If you accepted the Jewish bible, you would accept that Jesus could not be a messiah.

Why?

 

[rosends]

Why is that?

Last prophet was Malachi? But don’t you believe the messiah will be a prophet too?

The era of prophecy ended (to a large degree...there are certain subtleties to it). The future moshiach might be a prophet but it isn't an essential part of his identity.

https://derher.org/wp-content/uploads/52-Teves-5777-10.pdf

 

[rosends]

Why?

because he lacks the necessary familial lineage and personal qualities required. Because he was never anointed as a king or a priest. Because the mass of Jews did not follow him. Because his appearance was not preceded by the various expected events.

 

[theHawk]

The era of prophecy ended (to a large degree...there are certain subtleties to it). The future moshiach might be a prophet but it isn't an essential part of his identity.

https://derher.org/wp-content/uploads/52-Teves-5777-10.pdf

Not one quote from the Hebrew Bible in that link on the matter.

 

[rosends]

Not one quote from the Hebrew Bible in that link on the matter.

You mean from the version of the "Hebrew bible" that you accept. And this bothers you why? There is no mention of Jesus in the Jewish bible and yet you seem to find him at every turn.

 

[theHawk]

because he lacks the necessary familial lineage and personal qualities required. Because he was never anointed as a king or a priest. Because the mass of Jews did not follow him. Because his appearance was not preceded by the various expected events.

So what scriptures detail those things?

 

[theHawk]

You mean from the version of the "Hebrew bible" that you accept. And this bothers you why?

There isn’t any version it references, I would accept their version of the Hebrew Bible just as reference. It bothers me because there is nothing backing your claim that all prophecy ends with Malachi.

 

[rosends]

There isn’t any version it references, I would accept their version of the Hebrew Bible just as reference. It bothers me because there is nothing backing your claim that all prophecy ends with Malachi.

It does reference a version -- the Jewish bible is more expansive than you know so if it references the Rambam who gets his explanations from the talmud, then it is referencing the Oral Torah which you don't accept as part of your version of the "Hebrew bible." So this also answers your other post about "scriptures." I gave you 4 actual (unfulfilled) prophecies about the future messiah from the written biblical text. A lot of what we know is from the oral texts the complement the written text.

 

[rosends]

So what scriptures detail those things?

Here -- if you really want written scriptures, these have some (though not everyone accepts the exact interpretation presented)

https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/63607/jewish/Source-Texts.htm

Do primary sources unequivocally record coming of the Moshiach and establishing world order

Do the primary sources like Torah , tanach record the elaborate and supernatural propheises concerning the Moshiach? Rambam and talmud has described the qualities of Moshiach but do the primary sou...

judaism.stackexchange.com

Moshiach: Concept and Reality

 

[theHawk]

It does reference a version -- the Jewish bible is more expansive than you know so if it references the Rambam who gets his explanations from the talmud, then it is referencing the Oral Torah which you don't accept as part of your version of the "Hebrew bible." So this also answers your other post about "scriptures." I gave you 4 actual (unfulfilled) prophecies about the future messiah from the written biblical text. A lot of what we know is from the oral texts the complement the written text.

LOL the Talmud was hundreds of years after Jesus. So again, why would people during Jesus’s time believe that Malachi was the “last prophet”? They are supposed to know about the Talmud?

 

[rosends]

LOL the Talmud was hundreds of years after Jesus. So again, why would people during Jesus’s time believe that Malachi was the “last prophet”? They are supposed to know about the Talmud?

No much of it dates to before Jesus (especially the parts he quoted). The pharisees were the ones who accepted the authority of the Talmud. The Saducees rejected it. Do you really not know basic Jewish history?

 

[BreezeWood]

So why did the Jews have him crucified then?

Romans had him crucified.

If the person you seek forgiveness from doesn’t give it, then that’s on him. It is incumbent upon us to forgive, if sincerely requested.

what truly was evil will never be forgiven ... and the following centuries being ruled by the crucifiers to this day, the desert religions - their fate they only make worse by their hollow denials. and those that will allow them to destroy all humanity and living beings will likewise receive the same judgment.

there is only one prescribed heavenly religion - the triumph of good vs evil - when concluded will render the final judgment as reiterated by the climatic events of the great flood and as rendered to a&e at the outset of their journey.

 

[irosie91]

Weird, never once heard a Jew ask for my forgiveness for all the evils they push.

I am intrigued----what "EVILS" have been pushed upon you?

 

[Lisa558]

I am intrigued----what "EVILS" have been pushed upon you?

He thinks people who don’t believe that a mortal man was a deity are evil.

 

[AsherN]

If there is no original sin then why wasn’t Adam’s children restored to Eden? All humans are sinful, that is the “concept”, and that is all throughout the Hebrew Bible. Israel keeps breaking their covenant with God.

You start with the assumption that what Adam did went against G-d. The other possibility is that it was G-d's way of testing free will and that Adam passed with flying colours.

 

[BreezeWood]

He thinks people who don’t believe that a mortal man was a deity are evil.

and murdering the innocent isn't ... whether mortal or not the 1st century events and those that gave their lives for liberation theology, self determination were heavenly inspired and those that interfered will be forever punished.

 

[irosie91]

and murdering the innocent isn't ... whether mortal or not the 1st century events and those that gave their lives for liberation theology, self determination were heavenly inspired and those that interfered will be forever punished.

when is the "1st century" and to what "events" do you refer?

 

[BreezeWood]

when is the "1st century" and to what "events" do you refer?

- beginning 2300 years ago ... for whatever reason recognized throughout the planet.

the historic events of liberation theology, self determination a few in the middleast were willing to give their lives for and throughout the roman empire being exhausted in the late 4th century ... by criminals.

 

[irosie91]

- beginning 2300 years ago ... for whatever reason recognized throughout the planet.

the historic events of liberation theology, self determination a few in the middleast were willing to give their lives for and throughout the roman empire being exhausted in the late 4th century ... by criminals.

oh gee----you even have a Romulus and Remus style founding myth

 

[BreezeWood]

oh gee----you even have a Romulus and Remus style founding myth

... by criminals.

that occurred in the 4th century using judaism as its backdrop ...