What is a conservative, anyway?

[garyd]

Let's see my first post college job in 1976 was school teacher My take home pay was $457 a month. I now make about 3.5 times that as a machinist. So I am much better off than I was thirty years ago. But then when some one tells me I can afford a house paymemt that equals half my monthly wage I had the great good sense to tell them they were nuts and found cheaper accommodations.

We don't build houses for working people any more we build damn yuppie mansions largely because the regulations under which the housing industry operates in most towns today preclude them making anything else.

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

Me, my ex wife, many of my friends, people who work with me on Rosetta.

Sounds like a real pack of losers... So what? Are you expecting someone to dig your ass out of the hole YOU DUG?

All of us are college grads, all of us are professionals and all of us are making less (in absolute terms, not even taking inflation into account) than we were making two decades ago.

Yep... serious losers. Unless of course you're leaving your most productive years and moving into your final phase... but then everyone goes through that...

What? Are you going to tell me everyone you know is doing swell, or something?

there is no such thing as "'Everyone' doing well Nor is there EVER a time when "NO ONE does well... EVER. If you're living in a state that is governed by conservatives... you're doing well; if you're living in a population center where the populart consensus is 'boo-hoo' DO FOR ME leftism... you're screwed; as the government isn't going to do a damn thing for you and by the sound of it, neither are you. But the good news is that nature has a plan and she knows just exactly what you and people like you need. So just keepp complaining and waiting on a solution and rest assured that one's comin'...

I mean, I don't doubt that could be true if you exist in a cacoon of the affluent.

You're an idiot... so what you 'doubt' is of no value to anyone...

Because some professions have done very well in this economy, that is certainly true.

"Some professions' do well in every economy... only the idiots remain in the professions that don't do well so they can cry about it... we call you people "Ne'r-do-wells"... For the most part nature categorizes you as 'food'.

The upper 20% income brackets have actually done very well in the last thirty years. It's just the lower 80% or so who have been losing ground.

ROFL... Oh yeah... that college education is paying off again. It is AMAZING how you, the well educated can so easily deduce that the top income earners are doing well...

Obviously the lower down in the income backets you were in, the worse things have gotten generally.

OMG! Is there no bottom to your depth?

Why do you think people are having trouble paying those mortgages?

Gee Kreskin... I'm guessin they had too little income to service the debt for which they had contracted. BUT THEY HAD TOO LITTLE INCOME TO SERVICE THAT DEBT WHEN THEY CONTRACTED FOR IT...

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

Let's see my first post college job in 1976 was school teacher My take home pay was $457 a month. I now make about 3.5 times that as a machinist. So I am much better off than I was thirty years ago. But then when some one tells me I can afford a house paymemt that equals half my monthly wage I had the great good sense to tell them they were nuts and found cheaper accommodations.

We don't build houses for working people any more we build damn yuppie mansions largely because the regulations under which the housing industry operates in most towns today preclude them making anything else.

Bingo!

 

[Shadow]

The upper 20% income brackets have actually done very well in the last thirty years. It's just the lower 80% or so who have been losing ground.

Obviously the lower down in the income backets you were in, the worse things have gotten generally.


QUOTE]

Speak for yourself...I'm of the 80% you speak of, and I just got a promotion and a Raise...

 

[Gunny]

Please help me. I'd like to be a good conservative, but I'm not sure how.

Is it enough to believe in free enterprise and limited government, or do I have to believe that the limited government has the unlimited right to determine when a woman may have an abortion?

Can I just believe in the 10th. amendment, or do I also have to believe that the federal government has to determine who may and may not marry?

I believe in lower taxes, of course, but do I also have to believe that we need to support the commander in chief whenever he decides it's time to spend a half trillion or so on a nation building project?

Is in enough to believe in lower taxes, or do I also have to believe in unlimited borrowing and ever increasing spending?

Is it really necessary to believe the what Bush I called "voodoo economics" really works, or is it OK to think that wealth in the hands of the average American will trickle up?

Do I really have to deny modern science, declare global warming a hoax, and join a church that believes that the theory of evolution is hokum?

I'd really like to polish my conservative credentials. I may want to run for office as a Republican.

I'd run as a Libertarian, but no one seems to want to vote for that party. They have no chance of winning, you see, since no one will vote for them because they have no chance of winning.

In other words, you're just a 'tard stirring up shit.

 

[garyd]

median US income was 44 k a year before the slump.

 

[Old Rocks]

median US income was 44 k a year before the slump.

OK, and I more than doubled that. But I see all too many people arround me that make way below that. And do very neccessary jobs. While gas prices have come down, the prices for food and rent have not.

 

[editec]

The upper 20% income brackets have actually done very well in the last thirty years. It's just the lower 80% or so who have been losing ground.

Obviously the lower down in the income backets you were in, the worse things have gotten generally.


QUOTE]

Speak for yourself...I'm of the 80% you speak of, and I just got a promotion and a Raise...

Well I'll speak for the statistics, instead.

You situation or mine are interesting (especially to us) but they represent nothing macroeconomically.

 

[glockmail]

Yep. To promote common welfare, a real heath care system, instead of the broken one we have at present.

.....

Wow, have you ever read the Constitution?

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts
and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and
general Welfare of the United States;

Capital W "Welfare" is for the States, not for doctor visits.

 

[glockmail]

I see. That is why Haliburton, after getting many, many billions in no bid contracts from the American taxpayer, moves to Dubai. All you guys are good for is repition of meaningless talking points. The last eight years have shown the value of your type of thinking. The nation voted for change, and change we will have.

Wow I'm talking about personal responsibility and you bring up Haliburton. Talk about changing the subject to avoid responsibility.

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

Wow I'm talking about personal responsibility and you bring up Haliburton. Talk about changing the subject to avoid responsibility.

LOL... Man this poor schmuck doesn't even have a clue, let alone a firm understanding of the principles to which you're referring. Butit is fun to kick tem around for it... isn't it?

Nice rhetroical back-hand BTW... it's certain to leave a mark.

 

[AllieBaba]

We all are. It's called inflation. It's what we get for having excess government spending-- whatever money that can't be borrowed or taxed is printed, a directly inflationary effect. Keynes' theory was that it was the government's duty to go into deficit to 'prime the pump' to spur consumer spending and aggregate demand, however, he even acknowledged that printing the money for this, as the Fed's done with the $8.5 trillion they've injected recently, is horrible for the economy, and even more horrible for the poor and the workers. Wages never keep up with the rate of inflation, and so our standard of living has been on a constant decline, as the poster above me details from his firsthand experience. This is what we get for believing socialism or government can solve any of our problems. Self-reliance is the only way to go, what many conservatives believed and preached, once upon a time. Those breed are rare in the Republican party, today.

Yeah, that's a nice way to get out of having to admit that nobody is actually making less than what we were making 20 years ago.

 

[Father Time]

Liberal and Conservative can and have been manipulated to the point where they are now almost meaningless.

Just stick by your principles and when someone asks you whether you're a liberal or conservative, ask them to define those terms. When they finish say
'well under your definition I'm ___'

 

[Skeptik]

Liberal and Conservative can and have been manipulated to the point where they are now almost meaningless.

Just stick by your principles and when someone asks you whether you're a liberal or conservative, ask them to define those terms. When they finish say
'well under your definition I'm ___'

Excellent advice, and a good observation.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I can easily find out of the way websites if you like. However, I don't see you posting anything to refute my points, just ignorantly laughing by yourself at your own sort of joke. Which in itself is sad.

I didn't say "out of the way". I said "reliable". You're using a website written by its own users. That isn't reliable, no matter HOW many links it posts. Reliability is not determined by number of links, and "Duhhh" for having to be told that.

As for "you're not refuting my points", you haven't made any points that require or deserve refuting. All you've done is say, "See, Wikipedia says so", which requires only for me to say, "Learn to research, dunce."

 

[glockmail]

Liberal and Conservative can and have been manipulated to the point where they are now almost meaningless.

Just stick by your principles and when someone asks you whether you're a liberal or conservative, ask them to define those terms. When they finish say
'well under your definition I'm ___'

I don't agree with that. Although the meanings have changed over time, in fact nearly reversed, the two ideologies have vastly different meanings.

 

[Bern80]

I don't agree with that. Although the meanings have changed over time, in fact nearly reversed, the two ideologies have vastly different meanings.

A lot of people have commented on this about how the words don't mean what they used to, etc. But if you actually think about it, I think for most people the literal definitions of the words and the ideologies line up rather well where the role of government is concerned. Don't 'conservatives' want government to behave 'conservatively'? That is being conservative with money and spend less. Be conservative as to governments intrusivness into our lives? Doesn't it seem that liberals support 'liberal' use of government and liberal use of money for social benefit?

 

[AllieBaba]

Yup.
And I guess instead of asking "who is making LESS than you were 20 years ago" the question should be "has your standard of living decreased in the last 20 years".

Mine certainly hasn't.

 

[editec]

Yup.
And I guess instead of asking "who is making LESS than you were 20 years ago" the question should be "has your standard of living decreased in the last 20 years".

Mine certainly hasn't.

Yeah, there's the more accurate way of expressing it, Allie.

Mine is still better than it was 30 years ago, but has been declining for decades now.

Mostly that's my fault, but the economy doesn't much help.

 

[Orange_Juice]

Cranky, complaining, older, white people stuck in the past who have a do nothing attitude for government that takes the form of anti-government ideology. That's what a Conservative is.