What If Us Atheists Are Right? Hmmmm...

[Avatar4321]

Not if it's the evil, vile, cruel, sadistic piece of shi of the Abrahamists. If the biblical god appears to me, I will not bow down to a glorified Hitler. The true hero of the Judeo-Christian religion is Lucifer. How many genocides does Lucifer order in the bible? None! Who told us the truth in Eden? Lucifer! Who would abolish the laws about making girls marry their rapist? Lucifer. Who orders all the genocides, kills people for obeying him, orders disobedient children stoned to death and condones rape? El/YHWH!

I must have missed the part of World War II when Hitler willing died to ensure that everyone who ever existed, including those who killed Him, mocked Him, etc became immortal.

 

[JBeukema]

Well, guys and gals, all I can say is that you'd better hope there is something beyond and outside of ourselves that sets the rules. If not, there is absolutely nothing "wrong" about, say, grabbing a two year old girl out of a day care, raping her, then dousing her body in gasoline and burning her. In the absense of that something beyond and outside of ourselves that sets the rules, there is no objective basis for saying there's anything wrong with that as long as you can get away with it.

There is nothing "wrong" with what Hitler did. There is nothing "wrong" with what Stalin did. Such things simply are; just like a meteorite burning up in our atmosphere is. There is not intrinsic "right" or "wrong."

And, if those who are wishing to do so succeed in killing the concept of "God," sooner or later a critical mass of people will realize that there is no intrinsic right or wrong under the atheistic premise. That is not going to be a good thing.

You've never heard of ethics?

 

[JBeukema]

I must have missed the part of World War II when Hitler willing died to ensure that everyone who ever existed, including those who killed Him, mocked Him, etc became immortal.

Go ahead and finish your thought. I love how stupid it's shaping up to be

 

[N4mddissent]

Not if it's the evil, vile, cruel, sadistic piece of shi of the Abrahamists. If the biblical god appears to me, I will not bow down to a glorified Hitler. The true hero of the Judeo-Christian religion is Lucifer. How many genocides does Lucifer order in the bible? None! Who told us the truth in Eden? Lucifer! Who would abolish the laws about making girls marry their rapist? Lucifer. Who orders all the genocides, kills people for obeying him, orders disobedient children stoned to death and condones rape? El/YHWH!

I must have missed the part of World War II when Hitler willing died to ensure that everyone who ever existed, including those who killed Him, mocked Him, etc became immortal.

Seriously, you never wondered about this? Why didn't god just ensure that they became immortal. The entire dying and abuse thing was unnecessary.

And if Hitler committed genocide on the jews and then followed it up with an amazing act of grace and mercy, claiming that he loved them all along, wouldn't your opinion be that he is insane?

 

[BrianH]

Not if it's the evil, vile, cruel, sadistic piece of shi of the Abrahamists. If the biblical god appears to me, I will not bow down to a glorified Hitler. The true hero of the Judeo-Christian religion is Lucifer. How many genocides does Lucifer order in the bible? None! Who told us the truth in Eden? Lucifer! Who would abolish the laws about making girls marry their rapist? Lucifer. Who orders all the genocides, kills people for obeying him, orders disobedient children stoned to death and condones rape? El/YHWH!

I must have missed the part of World War II when Hitler willing died to ensure that everyone who ever existed, including those who killed Him, mocked Him, etc became immortal.

Seriously, you never wondered about this? Why didn't god just ensure that they became immortal. The entire dying and abuse thing was unnecessary.

And if Hitler committed genocide on the jews and then followed it up with an amazing act of grace and mercy, claiming that he loved them all along, wouldn't your opinion be that he is insane?

N-, I've decided you are a troll...your posts are full of holes and hypothetical scenarios....simple as that

 

[Avatar4321]

Go ahead and finish your thought. I love how stupid it's shaping up to be

I already have. Not surprisingly it's lost on you.

 

[Avatar4321]

Seriously, you never wondered about this? Why didn't god just ensure that they became immortal. The entire dying and abuse thing was unnecessary.

And if Hitler committed genocide on the jews and then followed it up with an amazing act of grace and mercy, claiming that he loved them all along, wouldn't your opinion be that he is insane?

When man was first created, we were immortal. It was only after man fell that we became mortal. Man chose to become mortal to gain knowledge. And God made sure we had time to repent of evils we do and provided an Atonement so that we could once agian become Immortal.

If Hitler brought all the people he killed back to life as immortal beings, wouldn't they be in a better position than they were before? How would that be insane?

 

[Anguille]

I would not want to be immortal. Though I have no idea yet if I am or not.

 

[Mr Mustard]

When man was first created, we were immortal.

prove it or stfu.

 

[JBeukema]

Go ahead and finish your thought. I love how stupid it's shaping up to be

I already have. Not surprisingly it's lost on you.

No, really, go ahead and tell us who died to make everyone immortal

 

[JBeukema]

When man was first created

evidence?

we were immortal.

Evidence?

It was only after man fell that we became mortal.

So if we keep a toddler from fallingl it'll grow up to be immortal?

Man chose to become mortal to gain knowledge.

Evidence? Even your holy book doesn't say that, so i'm curoius as to where you came up with it.

If Hitler brought all the people he killed back to life as immortal beings, wouldn't they be in a better position than they were before?

So you're basically saying god is no different than Hitler other than that he promises to let 144,00 worship at his feet, a minority into a promised city (Hitler promised utopia for the Aryans, btw, and was also a catholic), and promises to bringback most of humanity, make them immortal, and cast them into a lake of fire to burn for eternity in agony?

Sounds like Hitler's the lesser of two evils here.

 

[JohnStOnge]

You've never heard of ethics?

There is no innate basis for ethics without the concept of something greater than and outside of humankind that sets the rules. Sure, you can say that as long as you're in the confines of some social struture you follow "ethics" as a matter of self interest. But what if you're in position to do whatever you want with no consequence?

Stalin is an example. He reached the point at which he could do whatever the heck he wanted to do without consequence. Might made right. Were Stalin's purges "ethical?" If not, why not? Because they hurt other people? Why is it wrong to hurt other people? Because it makes them feel bad? Why is it wrong to make them feel bad?

There are no satisfactory answers to those questions without the concept of something outside of and greater than humankind that sets the rules. Sure, it's possible that no such thing exists. But you'd better realize that, if that's the case, nothing is intrisincally wrong. It's just a matter of the strong surviving and the weak perishing. If you are strong enough to do whatever you want, there is nothing wrong with doing whatever you want because there is no such thing as "wrong" in a moral sense. No such thing as "unethical" either.

 

[JBeukema]

You've never heard of ethics?

There is no innate basis for ethics without the concept of something greater than and outside of humankind that sets the rules.

Ever heard of secular humanism?

 

[N4mddissent]

I must have missed the part of World War II when Hitler willing died to ensure that everyone who ever existed, including those who killed Him, mocked Him, etc became immortal.

Seriously, you never wondered about this? Why didn't god just ensure that they became immortal. The entire dying and abuse thing was unnecessary.

And if Hitler committed genocide on the jews and then followed it up with an amazing act of grace and mercy, claiming that he loved them all along, wouldn't your opinion be that he is insane?

N-, I've decided you are a troll...your posts are full of holes and hypothetical scenarios....simple as that

You know, that's a first. Most of the time, even those I have frustrated with rational arguments at least acknowledge that I have been fair and my arguments are reasonable. That's why many people with whom I have had intense disputes and with whom I still have profound disagreements, both politically and theologically, I have no personal animosity toward. I have had positive reps from people on some issue, even though we had a contentious argument over another topic. And I likewise, hold respect for those who disagree with me, as long as they stay within the boundaries of civil debate, and rep them when strong arguments are presented (even arguments with which I disagree).

But you have quickly stooped to mudslinging here. The other argument which you and I had was not even intended to be an argument. I simply was trying to help you understand, broaden your horizons about an argument you were making that is widely regarded as ineffective and seriously flawed. It was for your benefit.

And in the case in which you quoted here, the relevance of my comments is plainly obvious. First of all, the question of why an all-powerful being would find it necessary to use pain, torture, and death to forgive sin is a legitimate logical obstacle to christian theology.

The comment about insanity was reference to the hitler/god comparison that was taking place in the posts I quoted originally. The bible is full of passages where god orders the genocide of gentiles. Yet, then he sends his son to "save" and forgive all people, including all the gentiles, who he has always loved. If these actions were done by a human figure, like hitler, isn't it fair to say his actions would be perceived as contradictory? Since the bible is regarded as true among many christians, and the fact that god loves us and sent jesus in an act of mercy is also regarded as true, then the contradictory nature of god's actions is a legitimate question.

If you have trouble answering legitimate questions and viewing rational debate objectively, that does not indicate that "I" am a troll. Asking difficult questions does not make one a troll. If I made outrageous claims or insults- perhaps you could justify that label. But my arguments are sound, I am willing to engage in discussion, and I make every effort to avoid attacking opponents rather than attacking their arguments. A consideration you have obviously failed to extend to me as evidenced by this post you have made.

Please, point out the "holes" in my arguments. That's debate at its best. It strengthens your credibility and helps me by making me aware of possible pespectives I have not considered. I do not ignore criticism, as a troll does. I embrace it, consider it, and either change my position or defend my position. I think you would be better served doing likewise- even if it's not so simple.

 

[Avatar4321]

No, really, go ahead and tell us who died to make everyone immortal

You really arent pretending to be this stupid are you?

 

[KittenKoder]

No, really, go ahead and tell us who died to make everyone immortal

You really arent pretending to be this stupid are you?

No, he just is.

 

[JBeukema]

No, really, go ahead and tell us who died to make everyone immortal

You really arent pretending to be this stupid are you?

Evidently, nobody did, because we're not immortal

 

[AVG-JOE]

What If Us Atheists Are Right? Hmmmm...

Well, then I guess all of us believers will be wrong.

We can't all be right... Now, if those bastards out there would just give the reasonable rest of us the God given right to be wrong......

-Joe

 

[JBeukema]

What if the raelians are right? hmmmmm......

 

[JBeukema]

What if you're both wrong and you face Allah or wait in line to have your heart weighed against a magic feather..?

The more you post, the easier it is to see ... you just don't think.

. One thing I know a lot about is Ancient Egypt ... because I studied it.
...
Egyptians had one [christ] that was so well known that even today we use his mark (the Rx symbol for drugs) because of what he did for them.

Evidently, you know squat about Egypt or its mythology

The classic exposition of judgment at death comes in the Book of Coming Forth by Day, in Chapter/spell 30 and in chapter/spell 125 and the so-called weighing of the heart. To the Egyptians, the heart, or ib, rather than the brain, was the source of human wisdom and the center of emotions and memory. Because of its apparent links with intellect, personality and memory, it was considered the most important of the internal organs. It could reveal the person’s true character, even after death, so the belief went, and therefore, the heart was left in the deceased’s body during mummification. In the weighing of the heart rite, the heart of the deceased is weighed in the scale against the feather of the goddess Ma’at, who personifies Order, Truth, what is right. Spell 30 was often inscribed on heart scarabs that were placed with the deceased. The spell appeals to the heart not to weigh down the balance or testify against the deceased to the keeper of the balance. Part of the spell gives instructions for making the heart scarab: "Make a scarab of nephrite adorned with gold and put within a man’s breast, and perform for him the ceremony of opening the mouth, the scarab being anointed with myrrh."

Egypt: Judgment of the Dead in Ancient Egypt, A Feature Tour Egypt Story

The seat of the deceased's soul, his heart, was weighed on a balance against the feather of Ma'at. If the heart was free from the impurities of sin, and therefore lighter than the feather, then the dead person could enter the eternal afterlife. Other gods in the judgement hall who were part of the tribunal overseeing the weighing of the heart were also pictured holding a feather.

Ancient Egypt: the Mythology - Feather

The Romans destroying Ancient Egypt has a lot to do with how much we know of their language. Because of their destruction (due to a lack of military power) the language they used and all of it's variations were completely lost. This is why it's so easy for people to make false connections to other myths or even invent whole new ones..

I am Jewish by blood, but I worship the ancient gods of Egypt

Read your book of the dead again. Mybye you'll look like less of a fool in the future?

No ... you are making the same error many christians, muslims, etc. do, there are hundreds of religions, though most are wrongfully categorized as "pagan".

I already showed how stupid this statement was

Mine is Pharonic ... from the ancient times of Egypt.

\Yet you know nothing of the afterlife or what one must do to get ther?

You [she is addressing Tofudog] are ignorant on religion, .