What human cost is acceptable in controling illegal immigration?

[protectionist]

we should be generating a thousand dollars per foreign national, per year.

a fee for an entry visa into the Union, could help cover

• basic services for those foreign nationals

• basic preventive health care and unemployment insurance should be included to defray the cost of Government.

Only "foreign nationals" who should be coming into the US are >>

1. those bringing large amounts of capital, with which to open businesses and create jobs (for AMERICANS), and

2. Those bringing special skills or talents that would enrich us (great scientists, great violinist, etc) These would likely be rare and small in number.

 

[kaz]

So you have no recollection of businesses leaving because it cost too much to product products in the US thanks to unions, taxes and regulations?

Naw, man.

What I recall is that the company I worked at had no unions, no real regulations and got a shit load of tax breaks, and most of our employees were immigrant ladies, and they STILL moved the manufacturing lines to Malaysia.

Dude, you resold boxes. What the hell did you offshore?

 

[danielpalos]

we should be generating a thousand dollars per foreign national, per year.

a fee for an entry visa into the Union, could help cover

• basic services for those foreign nationals

• basic preventive health care and unemployment insurance should be included to defray the cost of Government.

Only "foreign nationals" who should be coming into the US are >>

1. those bringing large amounts of capital, with which to open businesses and create jobs (for AMERICANS), and

2. Those bringing special skills or talents that would enrich us (great scientists, great violinist, etc) These would likely be rare and small in number.

don't believe in natural rights?

right wing fantasy doesn't work, in the ordinary world.

 

[protectionist]

don't believe in natural rights?

right wing fantasy doesn't work, in the ordinary world.

if you're talking about "rights" to come to the USA, no, I most certainly do NOT believe in that as a right. Nobody has a "right" to set foot in this country from outside of it, unless that right is granted by the American people/govt, and that, only with the utmost of care and inspection.

 

[danielpalos]

don't believe in natural rights?

right wing fantasy doesn't work, in the ordinary world.

if you're talking about "rights" to come to the USA, no, I most certainly do NOT believe in that as a right. Nobody has a "right" to set foot in this country from outside of it, unless that right is granted by the American people/govt, and that, only with the utmost of care and inspection.

You have no capital solutions, only social costs.

 

[Flopper]

Multiple nationwide studies have uncovered only a handful of incidents of non-citizens voting. Based on state prosecution records, votes by non-citizens account for between 0.0003 percent and 0.001 percent of all votes cast. Election Officials agree that there is no serious problem of non-citizen voting in our elections.

Hmm, you know, when we talk about Voter-ID and a Democrat brings up an anomaly like a voter with no ID because they came from a country that didn't provide birth certificates, the left told us that every single vote is precious; every single vote should count. But for some reason, when it comes to voter fraud "Oh don't worry, it's not enough to change anything."

The only real way of knowing who or how many vote fraudulently is when they get caught.

The reality today is votes are precious, not a vote. In the first presidential election there 43,000 votes. In 2016, there were 130 million votes. Just recently, LA county said 118,000 voters were accidentally left all voter rosters, about 3 times the total number of votes in our first presidential election. It is not unusually that thousands of ballots out of millions in a state will be misplaced or tabulated incorrectly. Sometimes they are found and sometimes not. As long as the ballots that are disqualified or mis-tabulated will not make a difference in the outcome, they are largely ignored.

In every presidential election there are thousands of votes that are not counted and many times that number that are not allowed to vote because of various purging rules of voting rosters.

So we are supposed be alarmed over fraudulently voting when it's discovered that 10 people voted fraudulently over a 6 year period in national elections, one women is sent to jail, 733 people could have voted twice because they were on the rolls for more one state and at the same time tens of thousands of valid voters are purged from the rolls and over hundred thousand legal register voters are simple lost.

The whole controversy about more validation of the votes and voter ids is based on the unproven claim that large number of non-citizens are voting in national elections. Also the presumption that adding voter ids will reduce the number of democratic votes is unproven. In other words, it's much ado about nothing.

According to Democrats Voter-ID is racist and does affect Democrat voters only.

There are F-ups in every election. To count the amount of votes cast is a daunting task. It takes electronics to assist to get the results as quickly as we get them. But because of that, mistakes are made. Those mistakes only come up when a Democrat loses.

The only time ballots that are misplaced are ignored is when it wouldn't make a difference in the outcome. If a congressional candidate wins by 15,000 votes, and 15,000 votes are found afterwards, it won't make a difference because it's likely not every one of those votes likely didn't go to that candidate. However, if they found 15,000 votes and a candidate lost by let's say 2,000, you can bet anything they will be counted and counted under a microscope.

Neither democrats nor republicans know how voter id's will effect outcomes. One source is saying voter ids were responsible for 200,000 less turnout in 2016. However, any reduction in turnout seems to be about the same for both parties.

Are voter id's racist? Maybe. The idea is based on the believe that blacks will not go to the trouble of voting if they have to remember to bring their id to the polls. I guess people think they are too stupid or lazy. That idea seems pretty racist to me. IMHO, voter ids do reduce turnout but they are just about as likely to effect republican votes as democrat vote. However, the issues at stake and the candidates are a far bigger determinate than having to remember to carry your id to the poll.

Voter ID will discourage Democrat voters because yes, many of them are lower income people who won't take the time to get an ID and the Democrats know this.

But of course they can't say it that way, so they make up this race thing instead.

Republican voters will crawl though a mound of snow to get to the polls. Many Democrat voters will only vote if it's convenient enough: multiple day voting; late hour voting; busses to take them to the polls; vote my mail.

We Republicans will wait in line for hours if necessary because voting is important to us. It's not as important to many Democrat voters; especially in the inner-city.

However race has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Your're falling for democrat propaganda hook, line, and sinker. In order to combat the republican drive to require photo ids at the polls to vote, democrats have come up with this preposterous idea that requiring photo ids will have a big impact on minority voter turnout. Republicans might think that's a great idea and so they push even harder and democrats are fighting back harder.

However, it's all bull shit. 87% of blacks have valid ids, 90% of Hispanics, and 95% of Whites. I know, you're clapping your hands in glee, since 13% of Black and 10% Hispanics won't be voting if photo ids were required. But don't start celebrating yet, because in almost all states, a valid id must be shown to register to vote and those without ids don't vote now regardless of race. So voter photo ids would have little effect on voter turnout since the 10% of Hispanics and 13% of Blacks aren't voting now.

http://www.projectvote.org/wp-conte...WITH-PHOTO-ID-Research-Memo-February-2015.pdf

 

[protectionist]

You have no capital solutions, only social costs.

Sure I do. One "solution" I mentioned is immigration based on MERIT. Accepting immigrants who will contribute "capital", to open businesses and create jobs for AMERICANS, and not accept those who represent nothing but more "social costs"

 

[danielpalos]

You have no capital solutions, only social costs.

Sure I do. One "solution" I mentioned is immigration based on MERIT. Accepting immigrants who will contribute "capital", to open businesses and create jobs for AMERICANS, and not accept those who represent nothing but more "social costs"

We should be generating one thousand dollars per foreign national.

Tourism is the first, second, or third largest employer in twenty-nine States.

 

[protectionist]

We should be generating one thousand dollars per foreign national.

Tourism is the first, second, or third largest employer in twenty-nine States.

"Tourism" ? I would hardly refer to 30 million invaders/occupiers/pillagers, as "tourists."

 

[Flopper]

You have no capital solutions, only social costs.

Sure I do. One "solution" I mentioned is immigration based on MERIT. Accepting immigrants who will contribute "capital", to open businesses and create jobs for AMERICANS, and not accept those who represent nothing but more "social costs"

We have no problem creating jobs or raising capital. We are creating a hundred to two hundred thousand jobs a month in addition to 10,000 a day that are being vacated by baby boomers. What the country needs is skilled workers, scientists, engineers, mathematicians, medical specialists, and skilled technicians. America's labor shortage is approaching epidemic proportions in many fields. Employers want to hire 44% more workers in 2018, if they can find them. The days of hiring people just to fill positions is long gone. If America can't provide the workers, those jobs are going elsewhere along with the revenue they generate.

 

[protectionist]

We have no problem creating jobs or raising capital. We are creating a hundred to two hundred thousand jobs a month in addition to 10,000 a day that are being vacated by baby boomers. What the country needs is skilled workers, scientists, engineers, mathematicians, medical specialists, and skilled technicians. America's labor shortage is approaching epidemic proportions in many fields. Employers want to hire 44% more workers in 2018, if they can find them. The days of hiring people just to fill positions is long gone. If America can't provide the workers, those jobs are going elsewhere along with the revenue they generate.

Maybe you're not reading the thread. in the post you quoted, yes, I mentioned " Accepting immigrants who will contribute "capital", to open businesses and create jobs for AMERICANS",,

And before that in Post # 5281, I said >> " Those bringing special skills or talents that would enrich us (great scientists, great violinist, etc) These would likely be rare and small in number. "

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

You have no capital solutions, only social costs.

Sure I do. One "solution" I mentioned is immigration based on MERIT. Accepting immigrants who will contribute "capital", to open businesses and create jobs for AMERICANS, and not accept those who represent nothing but more "social costs"

We have no problem creating jobs or raising capital. We are creating a hundred to two hundred thousand jobs a month in addition to 10,000 a day that are being vacated by baby boomers. What the country needs is skilled workers, scientists, engineers, mathematicians, medical specialists, and skilled technicians. America's labor shortage is approaching epidemic proportions in many fields. Employers want to hire 44% more workers in 2018, if they can find them. The days of hiring people just to fill positions is long gone. If America can't provide the workers, those jobs are going elsewhere along with the revenue they generate.

No, those jobs will eventually offer more money to attract workers.

You know.......I'm on the road all day long. What I find amazing is how many cars are on the highway every single day. I always said I wish I could set up a booth to stop cars; not to collect tolls, but just to ask these hundreds of thousands of people driving around during normal work hours WTF they do for a living that gives them the ability to be driving around instead of working?

The only time I'm on the highway is when I'm working. Understandable, there are kids out of school, stay at home moms, salesmen, retired people and so forth, but when you see how many cars are driving on the highway, you have to question how it is they are able to do so?

I don't think our problem is not having enough workers, I believe our problem is our safety nets discourage people from working. The solution isn't bringing in more foreigners, the solution is reducing our welfare benefits so that people have to work to make a living. Only those who cannot work should be getting benefits.

 

[Flopper]

We have no problem creating jobs or raising capital. We are creating a hundred to two hundred thousand jobs a month in addition to 10,000 a day that are being vacated by baby boomers. What the country needs is skilled workers, scientists, engineers, mathematicians, medical specialists, and skilled technicians. America's labor shortage is approaching epidemic proportions in many fields. Employers want to hire 44% more workers in 2018, if they can find them. The days of hiring people just to fill positions is long gone. If America can't provide the workers, those jobs are going elsewhere along with the revenue they generate.

Maybe you're not reading the thread. in the post you quoted, yes, I mentioned " Accepting immigrants who will contribute "capital", to open businesses and create jobs for AMERICANS",,

And before that in Post # 5281, I said >> " Those bringing special skills or talents that would enrich us (great scientists, great violinist, etc) These would likely be rare and small in number. "

I just read the one I was replying to. If if turns out that Americans won't pick the crops and dozens of other backbreaking jobs, we can always increase the number of temporary workers. Realistically, I don't see congress changing the 1 million immigrants a year figure.

 

[protectionist]

I just read the one I was replying to. If if turns out that Americans won't pick the crops and dozens of other backbreaking jobs, we can always increase the number of temporary workers. Realistically, I don't see congress changing the 1 million immigrants a year figure.

Americans do much tougher jobs than illegal aliens do. It is illegal aliens who won't do those tough jobs that AMERICANS are doing.

"Backbreaking" ? No kidding. Americans are doing LIFEbreaking jobs.

 

[JoeB131]

Well, he did blame W and credit Obama because of who was in office. It only works one way ...

Um, no, I blame Bush because he was in office for EIGHT YEARS before the recession broke out, and it's proximate causes were the usual Republican bullshit of lax regulation of Wall Street.

Now, it might be more of a stretch to credit Bush with the 2001 recession, but the 2008 recession, that was all him.

I was referring to our lifestyles, moron. Not whether or not we would buy a vacation home. Yes, government has made buying property prohibitively expensive with taxes and regulations

Guy, by any objective measure, we are less well of than our parents were in the 1960's, (for white folks anyway). That's a lot of the animus driving people like Ray and others here. The days when you could graduate high school and get a good union job are gone.

Now what you have to look forward to is going to college, racking up a mountain of debt, and maybe getting a mediocre job where you might dig your way out of that debt if you really like Ramen Noodles.

It's where people have to wait until their late 20's early 30's to start having kids. (Kind of one of the contributing factors in the decline of white folks that Ray is constantly whining about.)

 

[JoeB131]

Americans do much tougher jobs than illegal aliens do. It is illegal aliens who won't do those tough jobs that AMERICANS are doing.

"Backbreaking" ? No kidding. Americans are doing LIFEbreaking jobs.

I'm not sure why you keep pulling up that picture from the 1930's of coal miners.

but let's look at it..

Firefighter- Civil Servants, belong to a union, have really good benefits and get lifetime pensions when they retire at an early age. (You don't see a lot of 60 year old firefighters.)

Coal Miners- Well, not a lot of them left, because Coal is dead technology. And the work is mostly automated now, not guys in a mine with a pick ax. Of course, they belong to a union and get really good benefits, the few that are left.

Soldiers- Well, they get pretty good pay, they get lifetime benefits for being a Veteran, they get educational benefits, housing benefits, health care benefits...

Now, here's the thing, none of those guys are going to go off and take jobs cleaning toilets or picking lettuce or doing any of the drudge work undocumented immigrants do... that's the point. I guess we COULD raise those pay rates to what a firefighter gets.

 

[JoeB131]

Here's some more:

Russia
China
Cuba post 1960
North Korea
Eastern Europe 1945-1980

Seeing a pattern here, Speed Racer?

That some of those countries tried Communism? Um yeah, what's your point, buddy?

It's WHY they thought Communism might be a good idea... because capitalism was a shit sandwich for them.

 

[JoeB131]

It's not just one quarter. Look at the bar graph. On the right side of it (2017-2018) the bars are high. On the left side 2015-2016, they're low. Duh! You can't win elections on lies. American people are smarter than you think.

Actually, they are pretty dumb... but most of them are just smart enough to see Trump is a crazy person and he needs keepers.

 

[JoeB131]

Dude, you resold boxes. What the hell did you offshore?

That was only one job I had at one company. Another company I worked for made antennas, worked their for 7 years between stints at two packaging companies...

I know, I know, man, I didn't detail every aspect of my life, so obviously i must be lying... it's hard for you to imagine that in a 35 year career I've done a lot of different stuff.

But here's the progression.

2002- 2008- Worked for the evil packaging company that fucked me over because I had a medical issue.

2008- 2015- Worked for the electronics company, that offshored most of it's work while I was there... one of many commodities I purchased there was- wait for it- packaging.

It was also during this time period that I started the resume business..because they didn't pay as well as packaging companies did.

2015- 2017- Worked for an even more evil packaging because they offered me a lot of money. Then they reminded me why I hated the packaging industry so much... because they are all fucking evil. So after that, I took my Resume Business full time and am a lot happier now.

(Actually, I have talked about the electronics company in other posts, but never mind... Kaz has his fantasies and sticks to it.)

 

[JoeB131]

I don't think our problem is not having enough workers, I believe our problem is our safety nets discourage people from working. The solution isn't bringing in more foreigners, the solution is reducing our welfare benefits so that people have to work to make a living. Only those who cannot work should be getting benefits.

Uh, guy, most of the people in the "Safety Net" are retired people, disabled people and children...

There are very few able bodied people collecting welfare benefits.