What happens to Bush's legacy if...

[manifold]

Whatever.

I just thought of the question after watching the Woodward interview last night on 60 Minutes which was surprisingly not-hyper-critical of Bush. Since Bush's approval ratings are record settingly low, it's hard to imagine his legacy suffering further damage. However, if history vindicates the Iraq decision in anyway at all, it's not unfathomable or unreasonable to think he might receive some of the credit.

 

[Ravi]

 

[AllieBaba]

Like most Republican presidents, Bush will look increasingly good as we distance ourselves from the hysterical and untruthful criticisms by his contemporary leftists.

Likewise, Dem presidents generally look increasingly bad as more and more of them is exposed with each year that distances us from their tenure.

 

[manifold]

Like most Republican presidents, Bush will look increasingly good as we distance ourselves from the hysterical and untruthful criticisms of his contemporary leftists.

Likewise, Dem presidents generally look increasingly bad as more and more of them is exposed with each year that distances us from their tenure.

Yeah, that JFK was a real fuck-up! Historians are falling all over themselves writing about how bad he was.

 

[Caligirl]

At the moment it would certainly appear that way. But again, what if it turns out to be a long term success?

The administrations between here and there would hold some of the responsibility for success.

It's like asking about Israel. Relations between Israel and Palestine have seen the active involvement of most american presidents since Israel was established, with the exception of Bush who has been minimally involved.

He's sort of a mess. I can't see history coming down on his side. If we get a good negotuiator in office who can hammer out an agreement between Iraqi tribes, then THAT president might have some claim to getting the country on it's feet, at least moreso than Bush, but I guess it's all connected eh?

 

[Caligirl]

Like most Republican presidents, Bush will look increasingly good as we distance ourselves ...

Love that part. Absolutely right, Allie!

 

[AllieBaba]

Yeah, that JFK was a real fuck-up! Historians are falling all over themselves writing about how bad he was.

For years JFK was considered a god. Still, now that 40+ years have passed, and some of the sealed information is becoming available to the public, it is being accepted that he wasn't, after all, a god, but just a man.

Which is a pretty spectacular fall, when you think of it.

 

[AllieBaba]

Home - John F. Kennedy Presidential Library & Museum
Pretty much he installed a bunch of relatives in high places, created loads of new programs, had a 59 percent approval ratings, sent armed guards to the University of Mississippi, and acted upon his brother's civil rights agenda. He fought with Cuba, Vietnam, and Russia and told Americans to build bomb shelters. Just in case he really pissed someone off.

Then he got killed and Lyndon Johnson inhereited the mess.

 

[Vintij]

Home - John F. Kennedy Presidential Library & Museum
Pretty much he installed a bunch of relatives in high places, created loads of new programs, had a 59 percent approval ratings, sent armed guards to the University of Mississippi, and acted upon his brother's civil rights agenda. He fought with Cuba, Vietnam, and Russia and told Americans to build bomb shelters. Just in case he really pissed someone off.

Then he got killed and Lyndon Johnson inhereited the mess.

So, your describing a decent presidency. Creating programs does not mean those programs did not work and are not in place today. Search for yourself. 59% approval ratings are impressive, he must have done something right. Bomb shelters are a no brainer. Even if there is no war going on, the world threats were stacked up like never before and bomb shelters are essentially like putting safety on guns, or wearing a flack jacket for a domestic dispute. Cant hurt. Luckily when he died, america had a good VP in place to take over. Unlike the scenario we have if mccain gets elected.

 

[ignatov]

Like most Republican presidents, Bush will look increasingly good as we distance ourselves...

Love that part. Absolutely right, Allie!

Indeed. I'm sure Bush will look much better to me the more he recedes in the nation's rear-view mirror.

 

[AllieBaba]

He was okay, but by no means perfection.

And just because many of those programs are in place today doesn't mean they SHOULD be. I think it's pretty interesting that the left continually squawks about funding the military...but is incredibly silent on all the billions of dollars that go into ridiculous programs (can you say, "Community Organizer" or "Michelle Obama hospital scam"?)

How much DID Obama get paid for being a "community organizer" and what exactly DID he do...and where did that money come from? I bet I know. But that's IMPORTANT work..though nobody seems to know exactly what it consists of or what the results were....

 

[ignatov]

How much DID Obama get paid for being a "community organizer" and what exactly DID he do...

Yeah, was he systematically arranging people's closets or what?

 

[Vintij]

I dont know what Obama did as an organizer, but i do know that the legislation he sponsored and voted for in the senate, (despite their sucess) are legislations I liked.

As far as Bush, his legacy is written in stone. There is no way he can make it any better or any worse, he is already the worst president of all time. Even today he still passes shady legislation that goes unnoticed (like protecting certain islands to look like he is being environmentally sound.....except those islands have military bases on them, so obviously more weapons testing is behind this agenda, which as we know from the past can literally destroy the ecosystem surrounding the island.) And I can assure you that the last month of his presidency, he will appoint even more of his friends to high positions. (is that even possible? He appointed literally everyone he knows)

 

[ABikerSailor]

Everyone is going to remember Bush Jr. as the idiot extraordinaire........

He invaded the wrong country after 9/11

 

[Odd1_Out]

How much DID Obama get paid for being a "community organizer" and what exactly DID he do...and where did that money come from? I bet I know. But that's IMPORTANT work..though nobody seems to know exactly what it consists of or what the results were....

This should answer all your questions.

Obama's Community Roots

 

[Modbert]

He was okay, but by no means perfection.

And just because many of those programs are in place today doesn't mean they SHOULD be. I think it's pretty interesting that the left continually squawks about funding the military...but is incredibly silent on all the billions of dollars that go into ridiculous programs (can you say, "Community Organizer" or "Michelle Obama hospital scam"?)

How much DID Obama get paid for being a "community organizer" and what exactly DID he do...and where did that money come from? I bet I know. But that's IMPORTANT work..though nobody seems to know exactly what it consists of or what the results were....

This is what someone was talking about and what I was talking about the other day.

No matter what topic it might be, as long as it's negative about any member of the GOP, McCain, or Palin; you'll have one member on these boards who will drag Obama into it.

Want to know something ironic for those who don't know? "Operation Iraqi Freedom" was originally going to be called "Operation Iraqi Liberation."

That's right folks, it was going to be called OIL.

It doesn't matter if Iraq does have a democracy down the road, it would of happened eventually when Saddam had died (and much less violent) because no one else would of been able to rise up and command that same type of power.

Oh right, it was that Iraq had Weapons of Mass Destruction. So instead of getting accurate reports, Bush played a game of chicken with Saddam as in who would back down first.

Saddam didn't honestly think the US would invade because he didn't think we'd have a president that stupid...Guess he was wrong wasn't he?

We never went in there to free the Iraqi people, that is BS and every damn republican knows it. It was only changed to that once we were in there for no damn reason.

Because if that is the reason we went in there to free the Iraqi people then how come we're not helping the countries with even worse dictators or even worse off because of war lords? Exactly my point, I have called BS on the whole "freeing the Iraqi people" reason and will continue to.

 

[Modbert]

Oh and Allie, you can get the wonderful job 20 years from now to go to the families of their dead soldiers and tell them their child's death wasn't in "vain" since we "freed" the Iraqi people.

Because you know, they want us there at the moment?

BUZZ, wrong.

They attack our troops, kids with rocket launchers attack our troops (though maybe not so much anymore), they throw rocks and sticks at the tanks, etc.

They don't even want us there.

Right now, we're currently in the middle of a civil war waiting to erupt with our men and women in the crossfire.

Meanwhile, Osama Bin Laden who was the original threat and who we should have gone after more has enjoyed his nice seven year vacation in the Pakistan mountains because Bush is too chicken to tell the President at the time that we aren't going to allow you to harbor terrorists.

There wasn't that many places where they could all run. There was intelligence report after intelligence report that said "Hey, they are here, you should invade here."

Instead Budweiser Bush said no, I think you mean here! *Points his finger on Iraq*

Person giving the report: No sir, we're pretty sure they are in the Pakistani mountains.

*Dick Cheney steps out of the shadows*

Dick: You leave this to me George, go along and play now.

 

[Red Dawn]

What happens the 43's legacy if 20 years from now Iraq is a peaceful, prosperous member of the world community with a democracy-derivative government? I'm not saying that I'm wildly optimistic that this will happen necessarily, just playing the "what if" game. If this happens, would it all have been worth it?

We went to war because Iraq was allegedly a threat to us, possessed WMD, and were willing to hand them off to al qaeda.

None of which was true.

We didn't go to war to give Iraq a new, shia government.

I don't give a crap what government the Iraqis have in 20 years. That's up to them. And as long as they don't threaten my country, I could give a rat's ass what government they have.

So, would trillions of dollars in american taxpayer money, and thousands of lives sacrificed ever be worthwhile? Are you freaking kidding me?

 

[Gunny]

I guess that would depend on how that were achieved, through more war or through diplomacy.

Bush's legacy is of a failed war and failed policies, nothing more and nothing less.

Regardless of how Iraq turns out in the end, Bush has said he doesn't pay that much attention and isn't in on those meetting cuz he has "other things to do" so giving him credit for decisions he clearly had nothing to do with doesn't seem right.

While he has had a few policies that suck for sure, you really can't say the War in Iraq has failed.

I'll tell you the same thing I tell Clinton-bashers: since you choose to deride him for the things you consider failed about his policies and/or his real screw-ups, then it is only fair that credit be given where it is due to his Administration as well.

Before you ask ... no,I did not support his decision to invade Iraq. While justification existed to invade Iraq, I think leaving Saddam in place was the lesser of two evils from a global/regional strategic point of view.

At any rate, if you blamed him when it was going bad in Iraq, then too he deserves credit for it going right.

 

[Jeepers]

I am sure they will still be fighting over since they have been since I don't forever.

Not true.. the persian empire was progressive, peacefull and strong... and.. the CIAs involvement here has caused decades of turmoil..