What exactly is the "one state solution"?

[Humanity]

Are you asking Tinmore? He couldn't care less about Israel's Jewish identity.

I'm asking anyone who believes in a one state solution to convince me how it would be better for the Jewish people than a two state solution or a no more states solution.

I can't think of a single reason why it would be at all good for the Jewish people. And I think all the people on this board who champion a one state solution do so because they know it spells the end of Jewish independence.

Neither the Jews nor the Arabs want a one state solution(?). It is just something that morons like Kerry use to try to frighten Israelis into obeying what the Obama administration told them to do in the same way some parents tell children the boogeyman will get them if they do not do as they are told.

Since everyone means something different by a two state final status agreement, it simply isn't a meaningful term unless the specifics are defined each time it is used. The same goes for "peace". Israel already has a peace treaty with the PLO and on the ground, Israel, including the parts of Judea and Samaria Israel controls, is the most peaceful place in the ME. Since there is already de jure and de facto peace, no final status agreement can bring any more peace.

So, you are against a one state solution, a two state solution is a meaningless term...

And your solution is?

 

[toomuchtime_]

Are you asking Tinmore? He couldn't care less about Israel's Jewish identity.

I'm asking anyone who believes in a one state solution to convince me how it would be better for the Jewish people than a two state solution or a no more states solution.

I can't think of a single reason why it would be at all good for the Jewish people. And I think all the people on this board who champion a one state solution do so because they know it spells the end of Jewish independence.

Neither the Jews nor the Arabs want a one state solution(?). It is just something that morons like Kerry use to try to frighten Israelis into obeying what the Obama administration told them to do in the same way some parents tell children the boogeyman will get them if they do not do as they are told.

Since everyone means something different by a two state final status agreement, it simply isn't a meaningful term unless the specifics are defined each time it is used. The same goes for "peace". Israel already has a peace treaty with the PLO and on the ground, Israel, including the parts of Judea and Samaria Israel controls, is the most peaceful place in the ME. Since there is already de jure and de facto peace, no final status agreement can bring any more peace.

I don't know about all that "peace" you're talking about. My best friend and his family in Jerusalem had to stay indoors during that "knife intifada", and my relatives had to flee Haifa for a few weeks when that city was burning.

Still the homicide rate in Israel, including the parts of Judea and Samaria Israel controls, is less than half that of the US, and there is no basis for believing a final status agreement with the Arabs would make it any more peaceful.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Are you asking Tinmore? He couldn't care less about Israel's Jewish identity.

I'm asking anyone who believes in a one state solution to convince me how it would be better for the Jewish people than a two state solution or a no more states solution.

I can't think of a single reason why it would be at all good for the Jewish people. And I think all the people on this board who champion a one state solution do so because they know it spells the end of Jewish independence.

Neither the Jews nor the Arabs want a one state solution(?). It is just something that morons like Kerry use to try to frighten Israelis into obeying what the Obama administration told them to do in the same way some parents tell children the boogeyman will get them if they do not do as they are told.

Since everyone means something different by a two state final status agreement, it simply isn't a meaningful term unless the specifics are defined each time it is used. The same goes for "peace". Israel already has a peace treaty with the PLO and on the ground, Israel, including the parts of Judea and Samaria Israel controls, is the most peaceful place in the ME. Since there is already de jure and de facto peace, no final status agreement can bring any more peace.

So, you are against a one state solution, a two state solution is a meaningless term...

And your solution is?

Everyone is against a one state solution and a two state solution remains an undefined term so so the only solution that isn't just empty rhetoric is the status quo.

 

[Shusha]

The same goes for "peace". Israel already has a peace treaty with the PLO and on the ground, Israel, including the parts of Judea and Samaria Israel controls, is the most peaceful place in the ME. Since there is already de jure and de facto peace, no final status agreement can bring any more peace.

Good point. I've heard it said that the I/P conflict is one of the more peaceful conflicts, despite its length. Still, a final agreement of borders in a two state solution would be an improvement, imo, if only to get the international community to lay off Israel.

 

[Shusha]

Everyone is against a one state solution and a two state solution remains an undefined term so so the only solution that isn't just empty rhetoric is the status quo.

Actually, we've defined it pretty well on the two state solution thread.

 

[toomuchtime_]

The same goes for "peace". Israel already has a peace treaty with the PLO and on the ground, Israel, including the parts of Judea and Samaria Israel controls, is the most peaceful place in the ME. Since there is already de jure and de facto peace, no final status agreement can bring any more peace.

Good point. I've heard it said that the I/P conflict is one of the more peaceful conflicts, despite its length. Still, a final agreement of borders in a two state solution would be an improvement, imo, if only to get the international community to lay off Israel.

But what is a two state solution? Netanyahu and Abbas both say they support a two state solution, but they mean very different things by a "two state solution" so no final agreement is possible for the foreseeable future. The European have always hated Jews except for a brief period of embarrassment after the Holocaust. With some exceptions, they will continue to hate as long as we are alive.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Everyone is against a one state solution and a two state solution remains an undefined term so so the only solution that isn't just empty rhetoric is the status quo.

Actually, we've defined it pretty well on the two state solution thread.

Netanyahu and Abbas both believe in a two state solution, but Netanyahu's vision of an Arab state is unacceptable to Abbas and Abbas' vision of an Arab state is unacceptable to Netanyahu, so when you say two state solution, which two state solution are you referring to, Abbas' or Netanyahu's?

 

[Shusha]

Everyone is against a one state solution and a two state solution remains an undefined term so so the only solution that isn't just empty rhetoric is the status quo.

Actually, we've defined it pretty well on the two state solution thread.

Netanyahu and Abbas both believe in a two state solution, but Netanyahu's vision of an Arab state is unacceptable to Abbas and Abbas' vision of an Arab state is unacceptable to Netanyahu, so when you say two state solution, which two state solution are you referring to, Abbas' or Netanyahu's?

I'm referring to the one we worked out on the thread. Seems like a reasonable solution. Why wouldn't either Netanyahu or Abbas go for it?

 

[toomuchtime_]

Everyone is against a one state solution and a two state solution remains an undefined term so so the only solution that isn't just empty rhetoric is the status quo.

Actually, we've defined it pretty well on the two state solution thread.

Netanyahu and Abbas both believe in a two state solution, but Netanyahu's vision of an Arab state is unacceptable to Abbas and Abbas' vision of an Arab state is unacceptable to Netanyahu, so when you say two state solution, which two state solution are you referring to, Abbas' or Netanyahu's?

I'm referring to the one we worked out on the thread. Seems like a reasonable solution. Why wouldn't either Netanyahu or Abbas go for it?

I haven't read that thread, so will you briefly describe it to me?

 

[Shusha]

Everyone is against a one state solution and a two state solution remains an undefined term so so the only solution that isn't just empty rhetoric is the status quo.

Actually, we've defined it pretty well on the two state solution thread.

Netanyahu and Abbas both believe in a two state solution, but Netanyahu's vision of an Arab state is unacceptable to Abbas and Abbas' vision of an Arab state is unacceptable to Netanyahu, so when you say two state solution, which two state solution are you referring to, Abbas' or Netanyahu's?

I'm referring to the one we worked out on the thread. Seems like a reasonable solution. Why wouldn't either Netanyahu or Abbas go for it?

I haven't read that thread, so will you briefly describe it to me?

I'll bump it on the other thread and tag you. I'm curious to see what you have to say .

 

[P F Tinmore]

Anyone besides the victors living in the West Bank of Jordan belongs in Jordan proper, but the caring, loving Jordanians left them in the conquered West Bank of Jordan hoping the Jews would kill them.

So you are in favor of ethnic cleansing?

When the preponderance of those to be cleansed is the desire to commit murder? Yes.

Anyone besides the victors living in the West Bank of Jordan belongs in Jordan proper, but the caring, loving Jordanians left them in the conquered West Bank of Jordan hoping the Jews would kill them.

So you are in favor of ethnic cleansing?

When the preponderance of those to be
cleansed is the desire to commit murder? Yes.

Convenient excuse for stealing their land.

I invite you to vacation in Gaza or The conquered Jordanian West Bank.
And don't forget to wear your Cross proudly.
One more thing, put my name in your Life Insurance Policy.
Put up or shut up.

Nice diversion.

Ethnic cleansing is barbaric. The forcable transfer of people is considered a crime for good reason.

Good point. Every crime needs a remedy. The creation of Israel was a crime against the Palestinian people. The solutions by the Israeli side always include more ethnic cleansing, more theft of land, more killing, and more violations of Palestinian's rights.

Sorry, I don't see a solution here.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

So you are in favor of ethnic cleansing?

When the preponderance of those to be cleansed is the desire to commit murder? Yes.

So you are in favor of ethnic cleansing?

When the preponderance of those to be
cleansed is the desire to commit murder? Yes.

Convenient excuse for stealing their land.

I invite you to vacation in Gaza or The conquered Jordanian West Bank.
And don't forget to wear your Cross proudly.
One more thing, put my name in your Life Insurance Policy.
Put up or shut up.

Nice diversion.

Ethnic cleansing is barbaric. The forcable transfer of people is considered a crime for good reason.

Good point. Every crime needs a remedy. The creation of Israel was a crime against the Palestinian people. The solutions by the Israeli side always include more ethnic cleansing, more theft of land, more killing, and more violations of Palestinian's rights.

Sorry, I don't see a solution here.

Sorry, but Israel isn't going anywhere. Ahm Yisroel Chai (the People of Israel will live forever)!!

 

[ForeverYoung436]

When the preponderance of those to be cleansed is the desire to commit murder? Yes.

When the preponderance of those to be
cleansed is the desire to commit murder? Yes.

Convenient excuse for stealing their land.

I invite you to vacation in Gaza or The conquered Jordanian West Bank.
And don't forget to wear your Cross proudly.
One more thing, put my name in your Life Insurance Policy.
Put up or shut up.

Nice diversion.

Ethnic cleansing is barbaric. The forcable transfer of people is considered a crime for good reason.

Good point. Every crime needs a remedy. The creation of Israel was a crime against the Palestinian people. The solutions by the Israeli side always include more ethnic cleansing, more theft of land, more killing, and more violations of Palestinian's rights.

Sorry, I don't see a solution here.

Sorry, but Israel isn't going anywhere. Ahm Yisroel Chai (the People of Israel will live forever)!!

You never offer any solutions,or even try to see the other side at all. All you ever do is demonize Israel. I could say the Vietnam War was a crime against the Vietnamese people and demonize you as a criminal for participating in it (even as a teacher), but I'm grown-up and see that there are 2 sides to the story. BTW, there are alot of Israeli Arabs who see things way different than you (like Muhammed Zoabi), and they're closer to the situation at hand. If Hanan Ashrawi, a spokesperson for the Palestinians, can say she supports a 2-state solution, who are you, a Scandinavian living on stolen Native American land, to say otherwise? We need dedicated negotiators to solve this problem, not deluded philosophers who think Israel "has no land", not ppl who openly admit that they don't mind 2-year-old toddlers being killed, on either side! I don't know why you've latched onto this issue, but I find your opinions to be very cynical and sad. And, btw, Palestine was never a country, no matter what a fake map on the back of your Bible, shows. A Bible, of all things! What does your Bible say about who Eretz Yisroel belongs to?

 

[Shusha]

Every crime needs a remedy. The creation of Israel was a crime against the Palestinian people.

Let's assume for the moment that it is true that "every crime needs a remedy" (I'm not entirely sure that it is, depending on how you define 'remedy'). The problem with this, as Coyote pointed out somewhere, is where do you put a fence around this?

IF a crime has been committed against the Palestinian people... a crime has been committed against the Jewish people, against the Korean people, against the Scots people, against the Maori people, against the North and South American First Nations peoples, against Tibetan people, against the Vietnamese, the Cambodians, the Rwandans, the Sudanese, the Armenians, the Franks, and the Kurds and the Spanish, the Indians, and the Normans and the Welsh and the OMG -- I would be hard pressed to find a peoples anywhere on the planet who didn't have this very same crime committed against them at some time in their history!

Where does it end? When we start putting things 'right' and giving people their homelands back do we give the British Isles to the Saxons or the Normans or the Danes or the Pictish or.... Its ridiculous. Further, how do we even TELL who is who? Massive DNA studies on every citizen? Cultural association? Self-identification?

Remedies need to be forward thinking, not backward thinking. The idea is not to restore things to the way they were (impossible), but to find a solution which gives the Palestinian people a dignified way forward with self-determination. AND gives the Jewish people the same.

 

[rhodescholar]

Nice diversion.Ethnic cleansing is barbaric. The forcable transfer of people is considered a crime for good reason.

The pakistan/india population exchange is the best solution for the region. The arab muslims ethnically cleansed the jews out of their countries, now it is time for the arab muslims to emigrate out of Israel, the west bank, and gaza.

 

[rhodescholar]

So, you are against a one state solution, a two state solution is a meaningless term...And your solution is?

Why don't you present the forum with an example of arab muslim peaceful co-existence with another group who is non-muslim, EVER, in their history where the other group was not a second-class minority. Good luck there, sweetie.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Every crime needs a remedy. The creation of Israel was a crime against the Palestinian people.

Let's assume for the moment that it is true that "every crime needs a remedy" (I'm not entirely sure that it is, depending on how you define 'remedy'). The problem with this, as Coyote pointed out somewhere, is where do you put a fence around this?

IF a crime has been committed against the Palestinian people... a crime has been committed against the Jewish people, against the Korean people, against the Scots people, against the Maori people, against the North and South American First Nations peoples, against Tibetan people, against the Vietnamese, the Cambodians, the Rwandans, the Sudanese, the Armenians, the Franks, and the Kurds and the Spanish, the Indians, and the Normans and the Welsh and the OMG -- I would be hard pressed to find a peoples anywhere on the planet who didn't have this very same crime committed against them at some time in their history!

Where does it end? When we start putting things 'right' and giving people their homelands back do we give the British Isles to the Saxons or the Normans or the Danes or the Pictish or.... Its ridiculous. Further, how do we even TELL who is who? Massive DNA studies on every citizen? Cultural association? Self-identification?

Remedies need to be forward thinking, not backward thinking. The idea is not to restore things to the way they were (impossible), but to find a solution which gives the Palestinian people a dignified way forward with self-determination. AND gives the Jewish people the same.

The thing is that it is a crime that continues today. It has been continuous for a hundred years. The most important thing is that the Palestinians are not going to let it slide. There are many Palestinians outside of the country who are drumming up support for their rights. They have the freedom to do what those stuck inside cannot. They are doing many different things to promote their cause.

 

[Humanity]

So, you are against a one state solution, a two state solution is a meaningless term...And your solution is?

Why don't you present the forum with an example of arab muslim peaceful co-existence with another group who is non-muslim, EVER, in their history where the other group was not a second-class minority. Good luck there, sweetie.

And your solution is?

 

[rhodescholar]

The idea is not to restore things to the way they were (impossible), but to find a solution which gives the Palestinian people a dignified way forward with self-determination. AND gives the Jewish people the same.

There is no "palestinian" people, there never was. If these arab clans living in the west bank/gaza actually wanted to build a real country - and not simply destroy Israel which is all arab muslims ever do regarding other cultures - they would have created a functional one by now. But instead of building operating, real government agencies, a civil society, the rule of law, etc., the fakestinian regime sends in women and children with knives to stab jews - THAT is their 2nd greatest accomplishment. Their first was convincing/using Western leftist/liberal trash to keep pretending they are victims and sending them lots of aid $$.

 

[rhodescholar]

And your solution is?

Answer my question, if you can. You can of course show the forum lots of examples throughout history, can't you?

As for my "solution," see 135. As someone from the mideast, I can only laugh at useful idiots like you who think you know WTF you are talking about. It is a known fact across the region that the arabs flooded into Israel in the 1920s - now they claim they were always "indigenous", what a fucking joke. If I had a nickel for every Westerner asshole who argues on behalf of the fakestinians yet has no fucking idea whatsoever that they are talking about, I'd own the internet.