CDZ "What do we want? Dead cops!"

[Howey]

That phrase has been attributed 43 times in the past few days on this forum to Black Lives Matters, with videos of thousands of blacks marching (purportedly and primarily in Dallas, but also in Baton Rouge and elsewhere), carrying a banner and so on...

So what's the truth?

Here it is.

On 10 July 2016, Facebook user Wesley Scott Alexander posted a video supposedly documenting Black Lives Matter (BLM) protesters chanting a demanding "dead cops" three days after a shooting in Dallas during which five officers were killed and several more wounded:



Alexander's plea for users to "share" the clip because "the media won't" furthered impressions that Black Lives Matter protesters had loudly called for dead cops, that at least two individuals had answered the call in the worst way imaginable, and that a media conspiracy sought to bury the ugly truth. Repeatedly, readers apparently unfamiliar with Baton Rouge and New York City asked if the clip was footage from July 2016 protests held in the former location following the shooting death of Alton Sterling.

In fact, July 2016 wasn't the first time this particular bit of footage caused both confusion and consternation. A Fox News video uploaded to YouTube on 15 December 2014, just before the ambush shooting deaths of two New York City police officers, documents that the protest it captured occurred on or before that date:

The earliest tweets about that video also appeared on 13 December 2014 (linking to a since-deleted page):

Finally, just who and how many protestors out of thousands and thousands actually said those words?

A few dozen.

This clip and some background information about it were referenced in another video debunking Black Lives Matter myths that was posted online on 10 July 2016. At approximately the three-minute mark, the narrator notes that the "dead cops" clip captured a small group of protesters who hung around after the end of the Millions March in December 2014 and were disavowed by the organizers of that event, while video of the official Millions March event shows that it was a peaceful protest:


And yet, evidence shows the group that engaged in the death chant against police weren’t part of Millions March NYC. And if they did indeed march on Dec. 13, they did so long after the larger protest had moved downtown. They were not part of the main group.

For one thing, according to the video, which was posted to Youtube the same day as the protest, the “dead cops” chant took place after sunset. You can see from the video that city lights are already on. The group starts by chanting “hands up, shoot back,” before switching to the death chant, and then an unintelligible chant at the end of the approximately 2 minute clip.

MSNBC reported that the Millions March protests officially concluded at One Police Plaza at 6:30 PM, when the permit to demonstrate expired. The nighttime clip was clearly unrelated to it, and while commenters in 2016 lamented that the "media won't" show the footage, it was clearly widely aired back in 2014:

The clip in question involving chants about "dead cops" was shot in New York City in December 2014, but contemporaneous reporting widely and incorrectly identified its source as Black Lives Matter and Millions March demonstrations taking place in different parts of the city at different times. After shootings claimed the lives of police officers in Dallas and Baton Rouge in July 2016, the clip resurfaced and was often mislabeled as occurring in one of those locations.

 

[mudwhistle]

That phrase has been attributed 43 times in the past few days on this forum to Black Lives Matters, with videos of thousands of blacks marching (purportedly and primarily in Dallas, but also in Baton Rouge and elsewhere), carrying a banner and so on...

So what's the truth?

Here it is.

On 10 July 2016, Facebook user Wesley Scott Alexander posted a video supposedly documenting Black Lives Matter (BLM) protesters chanting a demanding "dead cops" three days after a shooting in Dallas during which five officers were killed and several more wounded:



Alexander's plea for users to "share" the clip because "the media won't" furthered impressions that Black Lives Matter protesters had loudly called for dead cops, that at least two individuals had answered the call in the worst way imaginable, and that a media conspiracy sought to bury the ugly truth. Repeatedly, readers apparently unfamiliar with Baton Rouge and New York City asked if the clip was footage from July 2016 protests held in the former location following the shooting death of Alton Sterling.

In fact, July 2016 wasn't the first time this particular bit of footage caused both confusion and consternation. A Fox News video uploaded to YouTube on 15 December 2014, just before the ambush shooting deaths of two New York City police officers, documents that the protest it captured occurred on or before that date:

The earliest tweets about that video also appeared on 13 December 2014 (linking to a since-deleted page):

Finally, just who and how many protestors out of thousands and thousands actually said those words?

A few dozen.

This clip and some background information about it were referenced in another video debunking Black Lives Matter myths that was posted online on 10 July 2016. At approximately the three-minute mark, the narrator notes that the "dead cops" clip captured a small group of protesters who hung around after the end of the Millions March in December 2014 and were disavowed by the organizers of that event, while video of the official Millions March event shows that it was a peaceful protest:


And yet, evidence shows the group that engaged in the death chant against police weren’t part of Millions March NYC. And if they did indeed march on Dec. 13, they did so long after the larger protest had moved downtown. They were not part of the main group.

For one thing, according to the video, which was posted to Youtube the same day as the protest, the “dead cops” chant took place after sunset. You can see from the video that city lights are already on. The group starts by chanting “hands up, shoot back,” before switching to the death chant, and then an unintelligible chant at the end of the approximately 2 minute clip.

MSNBC reported that the Millions March protests officially concluded at One Police Plaza at 6:30 PM, when the permit to demonstrate expired. The nighttime clip was clearly unrelated to it, and while commenters in 2016 lamented that the "media won't" show the footage, it was clearly widely aired back in 2014:

The clip in question involving chants about "dead cops" was shot in New York City in December 2014, but contemporaneous reporting widely and incorrectly identified its source as Black Lives Matter and Millions March demonstrations taking place in different parts of the city at different times. After shootings claimed the lives of police officers in Dallas and Baton Rouge in July 2016, the clip resurfaced and was often mislabeled as occurring in one of those locations.

Bullshit.

It's no surprise that this always happens wherever there is a BLM protest. They are the inspiration for these killings.....and Obama is organizing it.

 

[Howey]

MOD EDIT: Ooops...someone forgot they were in CDZ!

 

[GaryDog]

That phrase has been attributed 43 times in the past few days on this forum to Black Lives Matters, with videos of thousands of blacks marching (purportedly and primarily in Dallas, but also in Baton Rouge and elsewhere), carrying a banner and so on...

So what's the truth?

Here it is.

On 10 July 2016, Facebook user Wesley Scott Alexander posted a video supposedly documenting Black Lives Matter (BLM) protesters chanting a demanding "dead cops" three days after a shooting in Dallas during which five officers were killed and several more wounded:



Alexander's plea for users to "share" the clip because "the media won't" furthered impressions that Black Lives Matter protesters had loudly called for dead cops, that at least two individuals had answered the call in the worst way imaginable, and that a media conspiracy sought to bury the ugly truth. Repeatedly, readers apparently unfamiliar with Baton Rouge and New York City asked if the clip was footage from July 2016 protests held in the former location following the shooting death of Alton Sterling.

In fact, July 2016 wasn't the first time this particular bit of footage caused both confusion and consternation. A Fox News video uploaded to YouTube on 15 December 2014, just before the ambush shooting deaths of two New York City police officers, documents that the protest it captured occurred on or before that date:

The earliest tweets about that video also appeared on 13 December 2014 (linking to a since-deleted page):

Finally, just who and how many protestors out of thousands and thousands actually said those words?

A few dozen.

This clip and some background information about it were referenced in another video debunking Black Lives Matter myths that was posted online on 10 July 2016. At approximately the three-minute mark, the narrator notes that the "dead cops" clip captured a small group of protesters who hung around after the end of the Millions March in December 2014 and were disavowed by the organizers of that event, while video of the official Millions March event shows that it was a peaceful protest:


And yet, evidence shows the group that engaged in the death chant against police weren’t part of Millions March NYC. And if they did indeed march on Dec. 13, they did so long after the larger protest had moved downtown. They were not part of the main group.

For one thing, according to the video, which was posted to Youtube the same day as the protest, the “dead cops” chant took place after sunset. You can see from the video that city lights are already on. The group starts by chanting “hands up, shoot back,” before switching to the death chant, and then an unintelligible chant at the end of the approximately 2 minute clip.

MSNBC reported that the Millions March protests officially concluded at One Police Plaza at 6:30 PM, when the permit to demonstrate expired. The nighttime clip was clearly unrelated to it, and while commenters in 2016 lamented that the "media won't" show the footage, it was clearly widely aired back in 2014:

The clip in question involving chants about "dead cops" was shot in New York City in December 2014, but contemporaneous reporting widely and incorrectly identified its source as Black Lives Matter and Millions March demonstrations taking place in different parts of the city at different times. After shootings claimed the lives of police officers in Dallas and Baton Rouge in July 2016, the clip resurfaced and was often mislabeled as occurring in one of those locations.

Bullshit.

It's no surprise that this always happens wherever there is a BLM protest. They are the inspiration for these killings.....and Obama is organizing it.

There are BLM protests ALL OVER THE COUNTRY, all the time. So why aren't cops being shot dead everywhere?

 

[320 Years of History]

I'm not sure what to make of the OP's content. I understand what it says. I'm not sure it means much that I should give a damn about.

I am sure that the leaders of the Black Lives Matter (BLM) don't "want dead cops," for like everyone else, black people rely on cops to protect them. The difference is that black people on the whole, regardless of discrete events various black individuals have experienced, in America have a long history of having to fear the cops, having to fear having utterly false charges being brought against them, rather than having a long history of seeing them as protectors and being treated as individuals to be respected and protected. The beliefs and emotions that accompany that history don't disappear merely because a law is passed, and neither do the feelings and emotions that gave rise to the behavior that blacks learned to fear.

That sort of thing is not easy to relate to for me. I "get" it intellectually; I have no idea what it feels like to live it. I can recall being told by my gardener, a man approaching 80, about the few times he and his friends or family took "road trips" to visit relatives, trips taken usually because someone had died. According to him, in the 1960s and before, and especially in the South, but not limited to the South, they were absolutely terrified of the prospect of encountering cops because they all knew someone who'd been locked up, fined into penury, and/or beaten by cops when they'd done nothing other than be black, behind the wheel of a car and seen by a cop.

The closest I can come to having a "relatable" context for that kind of trepidation is going camping and worrying that I may -- for whatever reason -- happen upon a bear that "doesn't like me," or that "likes me" too friggin' much, whichever way one cares to see it. Even that's a poor correspondence for I know the bear isn't "out to get" me or even people in general, and I know my race won't play a role in whatever a bear is of a mind to do. That is quite clearly not the same "rule of the game" in play as go black folks' experiences with cops.

That example from some 50+ years ago is what it is and was what it was, but what it was often enough for so many black folks that it inculcated a mindset among black folks toward cops. Even today, however, we find vestiges of it that are no less dignified.

For example, in my neighborhood in Washington, D.C., a very large majority black city, a black adult who walks down the street, if they are seen by a cop will either be approached by the cop, or s/he will see the cop multiple times in the course of their trundling through. That in a neighborhood that has at least four Secret Service (SS) personnel stationed 24/7 within 500 yards of every house in the neighborhood. One is on camera from the minute one enters the area until the moment one leaves. If one passes close enough to one of the homes that has SS protection, and it's hard not to do that if one isn't trying to sneak into the area, one's face will have been checked against criminal records via facial recognition software. (The SS isn't going to "go after" someone just because they show up, but if "something" gets reported as having happened at a non-SS covered property, the info will be shared quite readily.) It's just not the sort of place that ne'er do wells would come to do something to someone/a property where they don't have an "in." On the other hand, I would not be given a second look, yet I know there's no way a beat cop could possibly recognize me for I'm not actually in my neighborhood more than 100 days a year.



There's no question that there were people in that crowd shown in the OP's video who were chanting " 'What do we want?' 'Dead cops.' " I suppose that's not surprising, and it's somewhat disturbing, but not terribly so. It shows that pissed off folks, black, white, this or that religion, etc. are willing to call for blood, so to speak. In my mind, it merely shows that black folks are willing to politically call for violence just as Donald Trump is. Trump's exhortation was to punch someone, but that's thoroughly unacceptable behavior to encourage when one is a would be President. The "correctness" shown by refraining from exhorting violent behavior is not the political kind.

You see, when our leaders are X-good, to X-extent vociferous in their outcries, with regard to something righteous, many of those being led think, "Well, if I'm some fraction as good at doing that righteous thing, that's pretty good for me." However, if the thing the leaders show is not so righteous, many of the folks being led think to themselves, "Well, he can't do X to its fullest extent because he's the "big wig," but I sure can, so I will." I don't know why things work that way, but I can see they do work that way. And it doesn't matter what color one is. It still works that way.

When I see the leaders of the BLM movement exhorting their followers to kill cops, I'll worry about that and its impact. For now, however, I see the chanting depicted in your OP's video as being just a bunch of pissed-off black people who feel the emptiness of having had ignored, or at best paid "lip service," their protestations about the relationship cops in general have with blacks in general. Whatever fair shake the Ben Carsons and Barrack Obama's get is great for themselves as individuals, but it doesn't do the black managing partner of a law firm, the black middle manager at XYZ company, the black bus driver, or the black pizza delivery person any good.

I mean, one can fool a lot of folks, but one cannot fool an entire class of people, from the top to the bottom, and say their first hand experiences collectively are not the actual experiences they had or call them all mistaken. One especially cannot discount those folks' pleas and cries of foul against cops when the fact remains that they and the cops know they need police service in their neighborhoods, regardless of how they're being treated and perceived by cops. What they want is a different caliber of person being sworn into the police force, not a non-existent and/or ineffective police force.

Frankly, I can understand black folks being ticked off, for it's not as though their message has changed in the past 100 years and the message has been coming from blacks who've "made it," blacks who have not and blacks in between. Back when overt discrimination was rampant in the U.S., nobody wanted to hear or deal with the matter of the mistreatment blacks faced collectively at the hands of cops. Now that overt discrimination is largely a thing of the past, nobody wants hear or do anything about the fact that blacks continue to face race-based maltreatment by cops.

 

[Fishlore]

This thread is an excellent piece of evidence proving the axiom that extremists on both sides have a common interrest in propaganda inflaming the middle. The mindless racism evident in the first response to the OP illustrates why this is so.

The GOP bigotry which now dominates the party has been brewing since 1964. There are two generations of angry white trash now ready to grease the skid into the corporate fascism of "law and order."

We will glorify the cops and military, a standard trope of all varieties of fascism, and in our mindless rage swallow whole the mendacious propaganda cited in the OP. Dark days are coming for our country. The rightward lurch to militarism never works out well.

 

[Howey]

^^^^^^^^
Those are two pf the best posts I've ever read on this forum. Thank you.

 

[Trinnity]

MOD EDIT: Ooops...someone forgot they were in CDZ!

 

[320 Years of History]

MOD EDIT: Ooops...someone forgot they were in CDZ!