What are/should be Israel's plans for the West Bank?

[Shogun]

If it were a matter of the government acting against its citizens, then yes.
Your avoidance of my question indicates that this is not the case.


oh.. so it's OK to bulldoze an apartment complex housing illegal mexicans.. ok.. just checking. Can you remind me when the last time such a thing happened in the US? Better yet, since blacks werent REALLY citizens before the 14th amendment are you telling me that, since slavery was not a matter of government action against citizens, it was no big deal to house blacks in pens for 200 years? Talk about avoiding the question.


Its very rare for a country to afford non-citizens the same rights as citizens -- in fact, I dont know of any country (where the citizns have rights) that affords non-citizens the same rights as citizens.
So, citizenship makes a HUGE difference.


Hey, thats one hell of an excuse, dude! I guess since Geronimo wasnt a US citizen and all... I mean, why consider THEIR history onthe same land when they just dont count, right? Say, did Germany revoke any citizenship too? AFFORD? Indeed, you see the US rounding up and throwing up apartheid walls with it's illegals all day long! Why WOULDNT it be obvious to bomb a building and kill non-citizen kids just to kill one rogue illegal? Like I said.. the length some of you will go to assert the perogative of the master rac, er chosen is appalling.


"Says the person that blows up school buses because he hates Jews...
The Palestinians arent Israeli citizens. Lamenting the fact that, while they live in Israel, they do not have the same rights as Israelis is no dfferent than lamenting the fact that Palestinans living in the US do not have the same rights as Americans."


Hey, thank god only dead jewish kids count, right buddy? I mean, if they are not citizens then they probably were pretend anyway!

and, we dont treat ANY ethnicity here legally different based on their nation of origin. If you think that the same rights would not be applied to an Indian working here on a visa as a guy born here then you, sir, are stretching very, very far to stroke that yamulka. In fact, making such excuses that let you ignore non-jews makes my MIlgram comparison spot on.

 

[Shogun]

and, before you start in with the jewish propeganda like what is found in your signature..

Ill ask you the same thing I asked Jillian:

Who killed Yitzhak Rabin?

 

[M14 Shooter]

oh.. so it's OK to bulldoze an apartment complex housing illegal mexicans.. ok.. just checking.

You're avoiding the question.
Is the Israeli government treating its citizens differently because of race or religion, or not? If so, please show where.
If not, then your "equal rights" argument doesn thave a leg to stand on.

Hey, thats one hell of an excuse, dude!

Just because you dont like the truth doesn't mean its not the truth. or that you can ignore it out of convenience.

Can you show me one western country where non-citizens have the same rights as citizens? If not, then your complaint that Palestinians don't have the same rights as Israelis doesn't have a leg to stand on.

(And just in case you're not keeping score -- you're missing 2 legs so far)

Hey, thank god only dead jewish kids count...

They should count to someone. Since dead Jews meaningless to you and the Palestinians, I thought I'd stand up for them...

But its clear form your response that "Consideration for my common humanity" is a one-way street for you.

and, we dont treat ANY ethnicity here legally different based on their nation of origin.

Given that the argument is the government's recognition of rights of citizen v the rights of non-citizens, this is meaningless.

 

[jillian]

and, before you start in with the jewish propeganda like what is found in your signature..

Ill ask you the same thing I asked Jillian:

Who killed Yitzhak Rabin?

And who killed Anwar Sadat for making peace? Kind of a red herring.

 

[Shogun]

And who killed Anwar Sadat for making peace? Kind of a red herring.

not at all. No one is trying to pretend that pals are not acting against humanity by killing jews. YOUR SIDE, however, is hellbent on polishing the turd when it comes to forgiving and ignoring the sins of jews in israel.

Hell, just look at that lame ass pic in his sig above. If THAT KIND OF SHIT were targeting jews instead of pals your antisemite alarm would have gone off by now. As it is...



remember how I aksed you this question and you have to admit radicals on both sides? what, hve you been stewing over that Anwar Sadat was your epiphany?

 

[Shogun]

"You're avoiding the question.
Is the Israeli government treating its citizens differently because of race or religion, or not? If so, please show where.
If not, then your "equal rights" argument doesn thave a leg to stand on."

Im not avoiding anything, buddy. If you refuse to acknowledge my answer until I say something that you want to agree with then so be it. I've posted examples of Israel treating pals like shit. If YOU wnat to disregard humanity on the same level that Andy Jackson did then so be it. You are not doing anything that the germans proved they were capable of.


Just because you dont like the truth doesn't mean its not the truth. or that you can ignore it out of convenience.

Indeed, which is why IM the one who actually posted evidence of the treatment of pals.. say, can you do the same without using biased sources?


Can you show me one western country where non-citizens have the same rights as citizens? If not, then your complaint that Palestinians don't have the same rights as Israelis doesn't have a leg to stand on.


Indeed. In THIS nation people who are not citizens but who are here on a work visa, school visa, etc. enjoy the EXACT SAME APPLICATION OF LAWS as we citizens enjoy. Praytell, how exactly do Indian students miss out in the same coverage American citizens enjoy? Can you provide specific examples beyond the lame ass zionist propeganda?


"(And just in case you're not keeping score -- you're missing 2 legs so far)"

If you say so... but then, considering your willingness to repeat the ways of the master race I probably wont lose sleep knowing that you seem to think im missing two legs.


They should count to someone. Since dead Jews meaningless to you and the Palestinians, I thought I'd stand up for them...


HA! See, Jillian.. THATS what what im talking about. All of a sudden, because I DARE to confront a jew with the humanity in palesitne ALL OF A SUDDEN dead ejws must be meaningless to me. See how that works, Jillian?

Indeed, it sure is CLEAR that here in the west the one ethnicity who is totally unsupported by europe, the US, christians in general.. OF COURSE no one in the west cares for the jews! It's so obvious! HAHAHAHAHA!

you,sir, are a fucking moron for even trying to suggest that jews stand on their own below concern for pals. For real, dude. YOU personify why the cycle of violence gets perpetuated.

Id suggest you read a little bit more about my motivation in argueing this before doling out the same old reaction to the slightest criticism of Israel.

But its clear form your response that "Consideration for my common humanity" is a one-way street for you.


Given that the argument is the government's recognition of rights of citizen v the rights of non-citizens, this is meaningless.[/QUOTE]

 

[M14 Shooter]

Im not avoiding anything, buddy.

Given the fact that you're resting your case on the Israeli government mis-treating Israeli citizens based on race/religion on examples of certain Israeli government actions against NON-citizens -- yes you are.

Please provide specidic examples of the Israeli government treating Israeli citizens differently based on race/religion.

Indeed, which is why IM the one who actually posted evidence of the treatment of pals.. say, can you do the same without using biased sources?

Given that the argument revolves around the equality of Israeli CITIZENS, your 'evidence' doesnt mean anything.

Indeed. In THIS nation people who are not citizens but who are here on a work visa, school visa, etc. enjoy the EXACT SAME APPLICATION OF LAWS as we citizens enjoy.

Can non-citizens in the US vote?
Can they hold state or federal office?
Can they work without specific permission to do so from the federal government?
No?
Looks like you're wrong.

If you say so... but then, considering your willingness to repeat the ways of the master race I probably wont lose sleep knowing that you seem to think im missing two legs.

It doesnt suprise me at all that it doesnt bother you that you canniot support tyour position.

HA! See, Jillian.. THATS what what im talking about. All of a sudden, because I DARE to confront a jew with the humanity in palesitne ALL OF A SUDDEN dead ejws must be meaningless to me. See how that works, Jillian?

You're the one worring about the humane treatment of the Palestinians while ignoring the same for the Israelis. If Jews had any menaing to you, you'd demand the same treatment towards them that you demand from them toward the Palestinians.

you,sir, are a fucking moron

At least my fucking moroness is conditional, while yours is plenary.

 

[Shogun]

Given the fact that you're resting your case on the Israeli government mis-treating Israeli citizens based on race/religion on examples of certain Israeli government actions against NON-citizens -- yes you are.

Like I said.. Is citizenship status the standard by which we hold nations accoutnable for their mass treatment of a population? I GAVE YOU THE US as an example. Your willingness to give Israel a pass based on citizenship status alone pretty much conveys how far youwill go to ignore the sins of Israel.


Please provide specidic examples of the Israeli government treating Israeli citizens differently based on race/religion.

I've posted above already. If you want to dance between the non-citizen status of pals as if it validates how jews treat them then so be it. It says more about YOUR motivations in this debate than it does mine.


Given that the argument revolves around the equality of Israeli CITIZENS, your 'evidence' doesnt mean anything.

I get the feeling that ANYTHING palestinian would'nt mean anything to you either so what is your point? This arguement revolves around the HUMANITY of palestine and the willingness of people like you to resort to transparent legalese in order to rationalize everything Israel does. That kind of shit only really impresses those who, likewise, are uber willing to raise the carpet for Israel while demonizing pals. Your signature proves as much.


Can non-citizens in the US vote?
Can they hold state or federal office?
Can they work without specific permission to do so from the federal government?
No?


Are indian students trying to vote any more than pals in Israel? do the also get herded behind an apartheid wall and marginalized when the next batch of Americans want land to settle on? Are voting, federal office, and working for the FBI anything even REMOTELY related to every other right they enjoy here?

So, are you stupid enough to suggest that an American reporting a robbery and an Indian Student doing the same would be treated differently? When working are Americans openly favored? Can I walk up to an Indian Student and get away with using him as a human sheild? Can I bomb a fucking Indian temple without fearing LEGAL recourse? I mean, they arent citizens, right?
Looks like you're wrong.


It doesnt suprise me at all that it doesnt bother you that you canniot support tyour position.

because YOu have posted a single source beyond trying to give me the standard "you must ahte jews" treatment?

Here... once more thing you can ignore on your way to polishing the zionist turd:
Foreign students urged to 'speak out'
http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2002/international-1030.html


Hell, since your logic says they are non-citizens then what the hell could these crazy MIT bitches be thinking when speaking out for their RIGHTS??

ohh.. THATS right.. you would rather insinuate that I hate jews than back up your own lame ass opinions about how the US treats it's foreign guests with equal application of our rights... silly me. I should have realized the FIRST time you insisted that I simply hate jews.


"You're the one worring about the humane treatment of the Palestinians while ignoring the same for the Israelis. If Jews had any menaing to you, you'd demand the same treatment towards them that you demand from them toward the Palestinians."


Indeed, why give a fuck about manifest destiny when westward expansion is exactly why natives scalped those invadign thier land? Again, I suggest you take a little time to read mroe about my motivation in this debate than hopping on the same old TIRED fucking jewish response to anyone that dares criticise israel. Spare me your cateract observation of who I speak for since the OVERWHELMING blank check support for Israel is exponentially higher on this board, and in the west in general, than that for the pals. I've defended the state of Israel just as I ahve defended pals. But hey, why take time to figure THAT out when you can point your crooked old finger and scream antisemite like chicken little, right buddy?

Hell, lets put more racist propeganda in your sig so your accusations REALLY mean something!


"At least my fucking moroness is conditional, while yours is plenary.:


Hey, far be it for a zionist bitch to think their own shit don't stink. For real.. it;s SHOCKING that you can rationalize your own behaviour while demonizing others. I mean, it's not like it's an obvious pattern by now!

 

[M14 Shooter]

Its obvious that no matter how many times reality clubs you in the head, you will not wake from your delusion.

Please, continue to self-sodomize youre credibility as a sentient being at your lesiure.

 

[Ruby]

How many of these links describe events where he Israelis deniy equal rights to Israeli citizens?

http://www.wrmea.com/backissues/0799/9907018.html

The Association of Forty, which lobbies for recognition of unrecognized villages and equal rights for their inhabitants, was formed 10 years ago in Ein Hod in response to an Israeli government decision to adopt recommendations laid out in the officially-sponsored Markovich Report, which suggested the government impose high fines, demolition orders and imprisonment on Arab Israeli citizens in order to put a stop to unlicensed construction.

Today there are some 200,000 displaced Palestinians (out of a total Palestinian population in Israel of 900,000—comprising nearly one-fifth of Israel’s population), living in Israel with no right to return to their villages or to build proper homes and towns. Of the displaced Palestinians, some 70,000 live in villages or towns that are not recognized by the Israeli authorities.

The towns are excluded from official plans and maps, as though they do not exist. All construction of any type, including repairs to existing buildings, is regarded as illegal and can be demolished at any time.

Thousands of structures in these villages have indeed been served with demolition orders, which are administrative and therefore do not pass through the courts, although offenders face prosecution in the courts where, in addition to heavy fines and sometimes imprisonment, they are periodically ordered to demolish their own homes.

and

Mohammed, founder of the Association of Forty, says that in addition to the struggle for recognition and services, another goal of the group is to gain recognition of the Arab community in Israel as a national minority and to be treated as citizens with equal rights.

“Israel’s racism is reflected in its own definition as a Jewish state and manifested in the Law of Return [which gives the right to Jews anywhere in the world to obtain Israeli citizenship] while we are uprooted and prohibited from returning to our homes or even owning land and homes,” he said. “Israel’s insistence on being a Jewish state to the exclusion of equal rights for its non-Jewish citizens threatens the very security it claims to need. After all, Israel is in the minority in the Middle East.”

Gee does that sound like they have equal rights and treatment to you???

http://www.jfjfp.org/factsheets/arabsinisrael.htm

This link has A LOT of info but I will share a few tid-bits but it really should be read in its entirety.

Settling Public Lands
The state has long maintained a policy of continually establishing new settlements for Jews only (often to act as wedges among concentrations of Palestinian Arab communities e.g. in the Galilee). This activity is coordinated principally by the Jewish Agency, rather than by the government. The settlements are established for Jews only (even when they are on public land) and Palestinian Arab citizens are not allowed to move there.

Public land is administered by the Israel Land Authority (ILA). As a public body it has a legal obligation not to discriminate against citizens, yet ILA limits the land available for development for the benefit of the Palestinian Arab community in many ways, for example by:

Oh so this is equal treatment?

b) Limiting jurisdiction by

(1) Creating regional councils in Arab areas on which Jews predominate

(2) Restricting the size of Arab towns or areas unreasonably

e.g. Nazareth has been limited to 14,200 dunams for 60,000 people, while the nearby Jewish town of Nazerat Illit has 34,000 dunams for 45,000 people - and a significant proportion of that land was originally Nazareth land.

c) Zoning

Land zoning, already mentioned as a way of sharing money out unfairly, is also used to prevent Palestinian Arab communities from expanding by limiting the land that can be built on, or even by denying some communities' right to exist, as in the case of the unrecognised villages (see below). Rezoning of land for Arab development is virtually unknown.

and

Unrecognised villages

Over 100 Palestinian Arab villages in Israel are not recognised officially and not shown on any map. Over 70,000 Palestinian Arab citizens live in these villages threatened with destruction and prevented from development or even from repairing existing homes or building new ones. They are denied all forms of basic services and infrastructure - such as drinking water and health clinics- and are unable to build or develop their communities in any way.

Despite the fact that most of the “unrecognised villages” existed before the establishment of Israel, state policy considers their inhabitants as lawbreakers. It prevents them from repairing existing homes or building new ones; withholds basic rights, such as drinking water and health clinics; and in certain cases even fences off whole villages. and make their traditional lands available for settlement programmes for Jews only.

and

The Land Acquisition (Validation of Acts & Compensation) Law (1953) stated that land not in the possession of its owner in April 1952 could be registered as state property. Yet at that time most Bedouin had been rounded up and kept in an enclosure zone.

How cute, they took land because they FORCIBLY kept the owner from the land.

There is not even close to equal treatment for Arabs or Palestinians who are living in Israel and are Israel citizens.

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/08/14/1358258

This is an interview with a British Jewish women who has citizenship and lives in Israel. She lives in an arab neighborhood and discusses the problem of arab areas inside Israel not having sirens nor shelters....

While hundreds of thousands of Israelis have taken refuge in bomb shelters, many Arab-Israelis in say they have had no such protection. They say they have been left on their own, thereby exposing some of Israel's worst inequalities. We go to Haifa to speak with the director of an Advocacy Center for Arab Citizens and to a Jewish Israeli who lives in an Arab town in Northern Israel and wrote a book about her journey across the Jewish Arab divide. [includes rush transcript]

and then I wonder what the chances are of this happening to a Jewish couple in Isreal...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4816152.stm

'Normal procedure'

Because the children's father was a Palestinian resident of the West Bank, the hospital demanded payment of the bill as it was not certain of recovering the costs from the National Insurance Institute (NII), it is alleged.

When the woman said she was unable to pay, the hospital released only two of the babies, keeping the third as a "guarantee", newspaper reports said.

The mother left with just two babies and last week approached the justice ministry.

"We looked into the matter with the hospital," the ministry's head of legal aid, Eyal Globus, told Haaretz newspaper.

"And it turned out that things were exactly as the mother said they were - the third baby was being held there."

Mr Globus was told by the hospital director that this was the normal procedure for ensuring payment.

and this part

The woman's family told Haaretz that two other Israeli hospitals had turned her away because she could not pay a deposit of $72,500 (£40,000) before being admitted.

She is an Israeli citizen. Is that equal treatment?

 

[Ruby]

If it were a matter of the government acting against its citizens, then yes.
Your avoidance of my question indicates that this is not the case.


Its very rare for a country to afford non-citizens the same rights as citizens -- in fact, I dont know of any country (where the citizns have rights) that affords non-citizens the same rights as citizens.
So, citizenship makes a HUGE difference.


Says the person that blows up school buses because he hates Jews...

The Palestinians arent Israeli citizens. Lamenting the fact that, while they live in Israel, they do not have the same rights as Israelis is no dfferent than lamenting the fact that Palestinans living in the US do not have the same rights as Americans.

Palestinians living in Israel ARE Israeli citizens, you are incorrect that there are no palestinian or arab Isreali citizens living in Israel.

 

[Shogun]

Its obvious that no matter how many times reality clubs you in the head, you will not wake from your delusion.

Please, continue to self-sodomize youre credibility as a sentient being at your lesiure.

hey, we can't all sport clear zionist progaganda and get away with it by screaming antisemite..


Must be nice being part of the master rac, er, chosen.

 

[Shogun]

Palestinians living in Israel ARE Israeli citizens, you are incorrect that there are no palestinian or arab Isreali citizens living in Israel.

Dont sweat it, Ruby.

You are experiencing the last bastion of defense these neo-germans have left: scream antisemite when you don't fall to your knees and beg israels holy forgiveness for DARING to criticize a jewish state.

Indeed, these people are no more part of a peaceful solution in israel than a big mac each day is a part of a healthy diet. They would blame obesity on anti-hungryism.

 

[M14 Shooter]

So what did they think would happen with all the Palestinians? Moshe Dayan thought they would become friendly, having experienced the benefits of civilized Israeli rule. Even if that had happened, it's hard to imagine what would follow from that. Israeli citizenship?

Sometimes, you make a decision NOW based on what you need NOW and worry about the details later. In 1967, Israel needed a buffer zone, and so they kept the land they won from Jordan -- as was their right, shoudl they chose to exercise it.

But a much more interesting question is: what should Israel do with the West Bank now? (Or, rather, that part of it which is outside their security wall -- I assume that part which is within the wall will be annexed.)

Send the Palestinians back to their home country (Jordan), officially annex the WB, intergrate it into Israel proper, and settle it accordingly. There is tremendous historical precedent for this sort of thing.

Further, make it clear to Jordan (and Syria and Egypt) that Israel will hold each country responsible for the security of its own borders, expecting them to not allow terrorists to cross into and attack Israel. Make it clear that Israel will consider these attacks as acts of war, with a corresponding response from Israel.

 

[Shogun]

It's pretty clear just how much of that "shared" land the local zionists want to let the pals live with. Indeed, sit back and witness the latest incursion of MANIFEST DESTINY with no disregard for whose gotta die and give up their homes for the sake of Isreali expansion.


again, it must be nice being part of the new master race.


it's pretty amazing just how ballsy pussies can be when they've got a nuclear weapon advantage AND an American guard dog.


hell, it's probably antisemtic for ANY nation not to throw themselves in between Isreals latest round of muslim baiting.

 

[Doug]

Sometimes, you make a decision NOW based on what you need NOW and worry about the details later. In 1967, Israel needed a buffer zone, and so they kept the land they won from Jordan -- as was their right, shoudl they chose to exercise it.


Send the Palestinians back to their home country (Jordan), officially annex the WB, intergrate it into Israel proper, and settle it accordingly. There is tremendous historical precedent for this sort of thing.

True. Or, looking to historical precedents, they could set up gas chambers.

 

[jillian]

Send the Palestinians back to their home country (Jordan), officially annex the WB, intergrate it into Israel proper, and settle it accordingly. There is tremendous historical precedent for this sort of thing.

Further, make it clear to Jordan (and Syria and Egypt) that Israel will hold each country responsible for the security of its own borders, expecting them to not allow terrorists to cross into and attack Israel. Make it clear that Israel will consider these attacks as acts of war, with a corresponding response from Israel.

I disagree. The palestinians should have the west bank and gaza. Israel does't want or need it and it's a headache they don't need. Let the palestinians get down to governing themselves properly. They elected a government, now that government should act like a government and not like a terrorist organization. Ultimately either Fatah or Hamas will end up in charge or maybe it will be a two party state, which might actually be good for the palestinians.

No right of return. Not ever. No country has ever had to allow people back who left because they didn't like the people they would have to live with. Maybe a monetary package with the help of the international community? Might be something to consider. But I figure any money they're given will go the way our money did when it was given to Arafat. But at least it's something negotiable.

No Jerusalem. Not because I don't think Jerusalem is the holy city for all three major religions, but because Israel is entitled to defend itself, not have porous borders and not have anyone else running part of its country... same as any other sovereign nation. And I don't want to hear about the religious claim, really, or how it's an international city. It is no more an international city than New York is for being the financial center of the world. And I know full well that if anyone ever suggested that NYC be internationalized, the world would laugh at them and we'd all treat them like they're retarded.

Now... I can also promise you that the palestinians would NEVER agree to the above or anything like it. Their interest isn't in being a self-governing, autonomous people. Their interest is in sending Jews to the sea. And I don't care how sympathetic one might be to them... it's unacceptable to ask any people to lay down and die.

 

[doniston]

Now... I can also promise you that the palestinians would NEVER agree to the above or anything like it. Their interest isn't in being a self-governing, autonomous people. Their interest is in sending Jews to the sea. And I don't care how sympathetic one might be to them... it's unacceptable to ask any people to lay down and die.

If course they would never agree to such a thing. NOR SHOULD THEY. after all, this was fousted upon them by Israel and, as you say, it is unacceptable to ask anyone to lay down and die. -----but it is acceptable to ask them to retract their ills and illgotten gains. Israel is not willing to do that

 

[jillian]

If course they would never agree to such a thing. NOR SHOULD THEY. after all, this was fousted upon them by Israel and, as you say, it is unacceptable to ask anyone to lay down and die. -----but it is acceptable to ask them to retract their ills and illgotten gains. Israel is not willing to do that

So you're asking the US to give back California and Texas?

Use your head. Do you think for a second Israel is going to make it so they don't exist.

Now you know why I think you "ohhhhhhhhh... the poor palestinians"-types are pretty much full of it, particularly given that you only believe information that is terrorist propaganda.

 

[Ruby]

So you're asking the US to give back California and Texas?

Use your head. Do you think for a second Israel is going to make it so they don't exist.

Now you know why I think you "ohhhhhhhhh... the poor palestinians"-types are pretty much full of it, particularly given that you only believe information that is terrorist propaganda.

Israel could continue to exist AND give back much of its ill-gotten gains AND they should pay restitution for many years to come for the genocide Israel has foisted on the Palestinian people (much like Germany does to Isreal fr what it did to the jews).

They fled their own homes due to fighting and are war refugees, they didnt CHOOSE to leave permantly or because they didnt like the people they would have to live with...those people DROVE THEM OUT BY FORCE and there has been a moutain of proof and evidence already provided to show those facts are INDEED facts. You just choose to ignore them because it suits your own racist agenda. It is very racist to think you have any rights to destroy an entire community/nation of people just so you can take what belongs to them and create a JEWS ONLY state.

Your accusations of anti-semitism are horribly weak and lame when its so obvious that its YOU who harbor plenty of racism and support genocide and apartheid practices.

You should be ashamed of yourself especially as a lawyer WHO must be aware the refugess DO HAVE THE RIGHT TO RETURN and fleeing violence to try and save your life is NOT giving up your rights to your property. The facts are that the zionists PLANNED and EXECUTED plans to drive out the palestinians...those refugees have a right to return to THEIR homeland.

It was the zionists who drove out the palestinians in violence BECAUSE they didnt like who they would have to live with, it was the zionists who wanted a "jew only" nation....not even a good try to attempt to paint it as if it was the palestinians who were designing such a racist policy.