Zone1 We can all blame Martin Luther for the disaster that is the Catholic Church today

[1miseryindex]

That's a bogus claim. You do not know men's hearts, yet here you are PRESUMING

looks like I have every right to presume such things... Looking around, I see the lawlessness in society coming from NON Catholics

 

[1miseryindex]

First, Mennonites practice non-violence. They do not go to war and they do not "start some violent thing". They were persecuted, and the priest they were named after was a hunted man. For further edification and details, read The Martyr's Mirror.

Trace the Rough and Rugged Roots of the Mennonite Faith

you realize, I don't trust just any "source," right?

How does one know if that source is truth-telling?

There is something in the Bible that says "Let all men be liars..." can't recall the rest of it but when I look around, I see virtually nothing but liars

 

[hadit]

you realize, I don't trust just any "source," right?

How does one know if that source is truth-telling?

There is something in the Bible that says "Let all men be liars..." can't recall the rest of it but when I look around, I see virtually nothing but liars

Yet you believe the people who tell you that Catholics have been the innocent victims of persecution since the Middle Ages. Growing up Mennonite, I know full well their non-resistant stance.

 

[hadit]

looks like I have every right to presume such things... Looking around, I see the lawlessness in society coming from NON Catholics

Nope, you are PRESUMING, something you said was divination. You might want to be careful about that.

 

[1miseryindex]

Nope, you are PRESUMING, something you said was divination.

Get lost. I am not presuming anything that anyone else would not presume, given the facts involved. No one said that ALL presumption is bad, but I know how you Catholic haters operate.

Lawlessness began to happen in earnest as soon as Luther broke from the Church

I have 500 years... Count them.. 500 *&^&%$# years

to draw on

If that doesn't give you a reason to make a "presumption" (or assessment) ... nothing does.

And if all you say in response is some Anti-Catholic BS, don't expect a response. I'm tired of useless conversations that get nowhere

 

[hadit]

Get lost. I am not presuming anything that anyone else would not presume, given the facts involved. No one said that ALL presumption is bad, but I know how you Catholic haters operate.

I know Mennonites, I grew up Mennonite. I know their non-resistance stance full well. I know their church history, yet here you are, denying it because reasons and feelz. Face reality, the Catholic Church was involved in some pretty heavy persecution, and denying it gets you nowhere. I know you can't handle criticism about the Catholic Church, but it's for real, and you'd do better to acknowledge it, warts and all.

Lawlessness began to happen in earnest as soon as Luther broke from the Church

Okay, and what happened to the Catholics who broke from the corrupt church?

I have 500 years... Count them.. 500 *&^&%$# years

to draw on

If that doesn't give you a reason to make a "presumption" (or assessment) ... nothing does.

Oh, I get your point, which is that it's divination if someone else does it, assessment if you do it, and that's not going to fly. I also have hundreds of years of Church history to draw from, and nowhere do I find Mennonites violently attacking Catholics. Perhaps you would be so good as to point out where they did?

And if all you say in response is some Anti-Catholic BS, don't expect a response. I'm tired of useless conversations that get nowhere

You're giving up so soon? It's quite obvious that your mind is closed, that you believe the Catholic Church is the end all and be-all of Christianity, that you have it all figured out and everyone else is wrong. In your arrogance you refuse to acknowledge that Christ operates across all arbitrary, man-made divisions and is not contained in any single denomination. Why do you seek to so limit God?

Christ's prayer to the Father was that we all be one in Him, yet here you are drawing lines separating this group from that group and claiming you are superior because you go into a building with a certain name on the door. Here is your test: Are you willing to follow Christ's teaching and be one with Protestants, or are you going to defy Christ and insist on separating yourself from others who proclaim Jesus is Lord?

How is the world to know that we are His disciples? I'll give you a hint, it has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with the name on the door of a building, the language they use in their services, or what the guy bringing the sermon wears. Look it up, read it and understand that ranting about how special your church is and how despicable Protestants are violate His commands. And if you think this is anti-Catholic, you're not paying attention. Notice that I do not call you names or impugn your character, only debate claims you make that are incorrect.

Oh, and BTW, you're not going to be standing at Heaven's door, telling people that the Father has invited that they can't come in because they didn't go to the right building to worship.

 

[1miseryindex]

It's quite obvious that your mind is closed, that you believe the Catholic Church is the end all and be-all of Christianity, that you have it all figured out and everyone else is wrong.

That is absolutely TRUE

When one finds what he is looking for, he does not look all over again in all the same places where he didn't find it before....

 

[hadit]

That is absolutely TRUE

When one finds what he is looking for, he does not look all over again in all the same places where he didn't find it before....

So why do people need the Catholic Church when they find Christ and His Holy Spirit in a Protestant church? In your arrogance you seek to limit God's ability to reach people.

 

[1miseryindex]

So why do people need the Catholic Church when they find Christ and His Holy Spirit in a Protestant church? In your arrogance you seek to limit God's ability to reach people.

I have a new policy, somewhat similar to the old one

I don't respond if there is a gratuitous insult.

If you don't like my religion, don't join

That is YOUR choice

 

[hadit]

I have a new policy, somewhat similar to the old one

I don't respond if there is a gratuitous insult.

If you don't like my religion, don't join

That is YOUR choice

I call you arrogant, which is not an insult because you are arrogant about the Catholic Church, especially when you seek to limit God's grace to those YOU think He should give it to, not to whom HE wants to give it. If you can find where I call you derogatory names or disparage your character, feel free to post it.

 

[1miseryindex]

I call you arrogant, which is not an insult because you are arrogant about the Catholic Church, especially when you seek to limit God's grace to those YOU think He should give it to, not to whom HE wants to give it. If you can find where I call you derogatory names or disparage your character, feel free to post it.

I rest my case

And btw I am very tired of your attitude

so I think it's time to say Sionara or something

 

[hadit]

I rest my case

And btw I am very tired of your attitude

so I think it's time to say Sionara or something

I will not stop responding to your posts and pointing out when you're saying things that are not Biblical. What you do with that is up to you.

 

[1miseryindex]

I will not stop responding to your posts and pointing out when you're saying things that are not Biblical. What you do with that is up to you.

that's big of you

And you don't go by the Bible as you claim

 

[hadit]

that's big of you

And you don't go by the Bible as you claim

Oh, but I do. I do not go by a Papal Bull, or an extra-Biblical proclamation. I use the Bible. You don't agree with me, but you can't argue that I don't present Scripture to support what I say.

 

[1miseryindex]

Oh, but I do. I do not go by a Papal Bull, or an extra-Biblical proclamation. I use the Bible. You don't agree with me, but you can't argue that I don't present Scripture to support what I say.

you don't go by the Bible

If some Catholic brings up some Bible passage that you don't agree with, you... as Merriweather put it

"kick it aside"

and ignore it every time

 

[hadit]

you don't go by the Bible

If some Catholic brings up some Bible passage that you don't agree with, you... as Merriweather put it

"kick it aside"

and ignore it every time

Okay, which passage have you brought up that I ignored? You've accused me of doing it, surely you have examples.

 

[1miseryindex]

I have a new policy, somewhat similar to the old one

I don't respond if there is a gratuitous insult OR

an accusation based on a presumption that you know anything about me at all.

Only God knows me

 

[Flash]

Luther (former Catholic priest/excommunicated heretic) was the first to seriously rupture the Church, claiming to set up other "churches" not founded by Christ but by him, a mere human being, a pattern that persists to this day since people no longer even accept the notion that there IS such a thing as "the original Church" (since they can't find it, &/or won't look for it....)

Luther (et al) started the first rupture that led to all the other ruptures, which then led to what we have today, which is

one word

Francis



This reminds me of a bumper sticker I saw recently:

Don't blame me, I voted for Trump

Don't blame me, I didn't disrupt the Church. Never would it enter my mind to drastically change --liberalize--the Church Christ Himself established on Earth....!

(I guess I just don't have the balls Luther did... yet, balls or not, he is very likely burning in Hell)

The Church that Luther disrupted needed disrupting.

 

[1miseryindex]

The Church that Luther disrupted needed disrupting.

No, it didn't, NOT to that extent. People inside the Church always always need "disrupting" because of their sinfulness

The Church Christ founded... not

 

[Flash]

No, it didn't, NOT to that extent. People inside the Church always always need "disrupting" because of their sinfulness

The Church Christ founded... not

Go read his 95 Theses. Most of them had to do with the way the medieval Church was selling tickets to Heaven with indulgences. You know, so that the Pope and the church could get richer.

I am a Lutheran. Your hate is pathetic.