Zone1 We can all blame Martin Luther for the disaster that is the Catholic Church today

[DGS49]

If you believe that the Catholic Church teaches things that are contrary to the Bible, you need to look deeper. "Apologetics" is a study that actually confirms the historicity of everything in - shall we say - the Catholic Catechism. Even Pope Frank in his most daring moments doesn't claim that homosexual sodomy is OK, despite millions of worldwide homosexuals wanting him to say that.

Leaders in the Church have done a lot of horrible things in the past 20 centuries. It's almost as though they were actual people with actual human failings. Who would have thunk it possible? But if you are a Christian and take the Nicene Creed seriously, there is no other earthly Church that teaches its basics more faithfully.

The only semi-serious studies on the clergy-pedophilia scandal of the past hundred years (that we know of) concludes that maybe 7% of Catholic priests sinned in this awful way. While my math skills are not the best, it seems to me that leaves about 93% who have been true to their vows, and that comports with my 74 years of being a Catholic. While never saw or heard any cleric (or Christian Brother) engaged in this sort of activity, it has been proven to have happened off my radar screen.

And yet there is an Army of Church haters who will bad-mouth the Church to their dying day over the head of that 7% (much less than that now). What other massive, global organization with intensive nurturing of children has a better record? "We" may never know. Nobody wants to find out. The Catholic Church is too easy a target.

Martin Luther? Just as Christ died an orthodox Jew, Luther died a Catholic. Some sort of "reformation" was long overdue, but the Prods have simply gone too far and lost legitimacy, especially now with sanctioning of gay marriages and whatnot. No thanks.

 

[1miseryindex]

luther was also antisemitic

yes, i vaguely recall reading about that in the book The Facts About Luther

thanks for the reminder. Maybe it stands to reason he would dislike them, since Catholicism is based on Judaism... The Old Testament prophets predicted the coming of Christ (Isaiah, etc)

 

[1miseryindex]

i guess i'll have to take this case of miz vs francis pro bono

liberation theology is part and parcel of christ's teaching on the mount. if francis can continue to set the course of the church in that direction i would be very happy.

you may have noticed that there is room for a variety of opinions, even within the patriarchal/hierarchical structure of the church.

luthor. i don't know if indulgences are effective or heretical. i do know that , as a practical matter, the 30 years war did confirm, for thousands of soldiers and peasants, who were denied access through the pearly gates through insufficient indulgence "works."

I don't get the last sentence... and possibly others

 

[1miseryindex]

If you believe that the Catholic Church teaches things that are contrary to the Bible, you need to look deeper. "Apologetics" is a study that actually confirms the historicity of everything in - shall we say - the Catholic Catechism. Even Pope Frank in his most daring moments doesn't claim that homosexual sodomy is OK, despite millions of worldwide homosexuals wanting him to say that.
Prods have simply gone too far and lost legitimacy, especially now with sanctioning of gay marriages and whatnot. No thanks.

I wish you would stop calling him Pope... and with a capital P even.

According to my verified information, we haven't had a valid pope since Pius XII

 

[1miseryindex]

If you believe that the Catholic Church teaches things that are contrary to the Bible, you need to look deeper. "Apologetics" is a study that actually confirms the historicity of everything in - shall we say - the Catholic Catechism. Even Pope Frank in his most daring moments doesn't claim that homosexual sodomy is OK, despite millions of worldwide homosexuals wanting him to say that.

Leaders in the Church have done a lot of horrible things in the past 20 centuries. It's almost as though they were actual people with actual human failings. Who would have thunk it possible? But if you are a Christian and take the Nicene Creed seriously, there is no other earthly Church that teaches its basics more faithfully.

The only semi-serious studies on the clergy-pedophilia scandal of the past hundred years (that we know of) concludes that maybe 7% of Catholic priests sinned in this awful way. While my math skills are not the best, it seems to me that leaves about 93% who have been true to their vows, and that comports with my 74 years of being a Catholic. While never saw or heard any cleric (or Christian Brother) engaged in this sort of activity, it has been proven to have happened off my radar screen.

And yet there is an Army of Church haters who will bad-mouth the Church to their dying day over the head of that 7% (much less than that now). What other massive, global organization with intensive nurturing of children has a better record? "We" may never know. Nobody wants to find out. The Catholic Church is too easy a target.

Martin Luther? Just as Christ died an orthodox Jew, Luther died a Catholic. Some sort of "reformation" was long overdue, but the Prods have simply gone too far and lost legitimacy, especially now with sanctioning of gay marriages and whatnot. No thanks.

Now that I've gotten beyond your use of the word Pope RE Francis, I have read the rest.... I don't believe it is 7% of priests (or "priests") who abused c hildren. I have heard it is 3% at best. 7% may have been accused, that is certain. But since Satan is the Chief Accuser of the Brethren and lots of people listen to that pos...

Anyhow, I don't think Luther died a Catholic, depending on one's definition of the C word...

 

[Votto]

If you believe that the Catholic Church teaches things that are contrary to the Bible, you need to look deeper. "Apologetics" is a study that actually confirms the historicity of everything in - shall we say - the Catholic Catechism. Even Pope Frank in his most daring moments doesn't claim that homosexual sodomy is OK, despite millions of worldwide homosexuals wanting him to say that.

Leaders in the Church have done a lot of horrible things in the past 20 centuries. It's almost as though they were actual people with actual human failings. Who would have thunk it possible? But if you are a Christian and take the Nicene Creed seriously, there is no other earthly Church that teaches its basics more faithfully.

The only semi-serious studies on the clergy-pedophilia scandal of the past hundred years (that we know of) concludes that maybe 7% of Catholic priests sinned in this awful way. While my math skills are not the best, it seems to me that leaves about 93% who have been true to their vows, and that comports with my 74 years of being a Catholic. While never saw or heard any cleric (or Christian Brother) engaged in this sort of activity, it has been proven to have happened off my radar screen.

And yet there is an Army of Church haters who will bad-mouth the Church to their dying day over the head of that 7% (much less than that now). What other massive, global organization with intensive nurturing of children has a better record? "We" may never know. Nobody wants to find out. The Catholic Church is too easy a target.

Martin Luther? Just as Christ died an orthodox Jew, Luther died a Catholic. Some sort of "reformation" was long overdue, but the Prods have simply gone too far and lost legitimacy, especially now with sanctioning of gay marriages and whatnot. No thanks.

The Pope is trying to walk a line, an all inclusive line where he neither condemns the gender cult nor affirms it.

Instead, he just says he blesses them? That is leaning towards affirming it, and everyone knows it.

This is disingenuous at best. The people needs to grow a pair and take a stand but is too scared to do so.

As it is, Biden is hunting down Catholics as we speak.

 

[rampart]

The Pope is trying to walk a line, an all inclusive line where he neither condemns the gender cult nor affirms it.

Instead, he just says he blesses them? That is leaning towards affirming it, and everyone knows it.

This is disingenuous at best. The people needs to grow a pair and take a stand but is too scared to do so.

As it is, Biden is hunting down Catholics as we speak.

in the unlikely event that biden is hunting catholics for sport, i don't have to be faster than the hunters (or hunter? must be fortold by the prophets. ) i only have to be faster than you.

 

[1miseryindex]

in the unlikely event that biden is hunting catholics for sport, i don't have to be faster than the hunters (or hunter? must be fortold by the prophets. ) i only have to be faster than you.

I don't really get this

but in any case, the devil is hunting down Christians and has been ever since Christ walked the earth, or at least since the Resurrection

 

[The Irish Ram]

I don't really get this

but in any case, the devil is hunting down Christians and has been ever since Christ walked the earth, or at least since the Resurrection

It refers to this:
A lion is stalking 2 gazelles. One gazelle realizes that he doesn't have to be faster than the lion. He only needs to be faster than the other gazelle to keep from being eaten...

 

[hadit]

Luther (former Catholic priest/excommunicated heretic) was the first to seriously rupture the Church, claiming to set up other "churches" not founded by Christ but by him, a mere human being, a pattern that persists to this day since people no longer even accept the notion that there IS such a thing as "the original Church" (since they can't find it, &/or won't look for it....)

Luther (et al) started the first rupture that led to all the other ruptures, which then led to what we have today, which is

one word

Francis



This reminds me of a bumper sticker I saw recently:

Don't blame me, I voted for Trump

Don't blame me, I didn't disrupt the Church. Never would it enter my mind to drastically change --liberalize--the Church Christ Himself established on Earth....!

(I guess I just don't have the balls Luther did... yet, balls or not, he is very likely burning in Hell)

Why did the Catholic church resort to violence trying to keep people under their thumb? That right there tells me that there was something seriously wrong in the church that NEEDED a separation.

 

[Meriweather]

Why did the Catholic church resort to violence trying to keep people under their thumb? That right there tells me that there was something seriously wrong in the church that NEEDED a separation.

What incident(s) are you referencing? Keep in mind the Protestants were being just as violent. Even before that, when one takes into account the entire saga, it starts with politics, where the political astute (if they could be called that) did a lot to cause a rift in the Church so that a united Church could not come to the aid of the State. (Remember in those days it was Church and State together.) Sacrifice Church to get control of the State. Then blame the whole uproar on the Church. Read deeper into history. It was a brilliant strategy, and it is still being used today, but against religion as a whole so that State has fewer supporters for a new form of government to take control.

 

[hadit]

What incident(s) are you referencing? Keep in mind the Protestants were being just as violent. Even before that, when one takes into account the entire saga, it starts with politics, where the political astute (if they could be called that) did a lot to cause a rift in the Church so that a united Church could not come to the aid of the State. (Remember in those days it was Church and State together.) Sacrifice Church to get control of the State. Then blame the whole uproar on the Church. Read deeper into history. It was a brilliant strategy, and it is still being used today, but against religion as a whole so that State has fewer supporters for a new form of government to take control.

I'm talking about the entire Reformation period, where people were fleeing to other countries and the new world to escape religious persecution. You might want to read "Martyr's Mirror" for accounts of the atrocities people suffered for their faith during that time.

 

[Meriweather]

I'm talking about the entire Reformation period, where people were fleeing to other countries and the new world to escape religious persecution. You might want to read "Martyr's Mirror" for accounts of the atrocities people suffered for their faith during that time.

My interest lies in the all round perspectives. Never have found the time to give each incident/perspective the attention it deserves.

 

[ninja007]

martin luther is a saint. thank God for the reformation!

 

[hadit]

My interest lies in the all round perspectives. Never have found the time to give each incident/perspective the attention it deserves.

That's a bit of a cop-out, sorry. A lot of people suffered.

 

[Meriweather]

That's a bit of a cop-out, sorry. A lot of people suffered.

For me, it was a matter of choice. I could spend my time with all the politics around the Enlightenment and the various wars/battles of that time, or I could spend my time on the Bible and the histories of its languages and cultures. I don't do half-way measures, and I chose the Bible and all its histories.

If you have any extra time, do some research on what Protestants were doing to Catholics. I read enough to understand it was very much a two-way street. And again, a lot of state politics thrown in. It was a fascinating mess, and for me, good research needs to be done right or not at all.

 

[hadit]

For me, it was a matter of choice. I could spend my time with all the politics around the Enlightenment and the various wars/battles of that time, or I could spend my time on the Bible and the histories of its languages and cultures. I don't do half-way measures, and I chose the Bible and all its histories.

If you have any extra time, do some research on what Protestants were doing to Catholics. I read enough to understand it was very much a two-way street. And again, a lot of state politics thrown in. It was a fascinating mess, and for me, good research needs to be done right or not at all.

Admittedly, I have a bias. Some of my Mennonite ancestors were violently persecuted by the Catholic Church.

 

[1miseryindex]

Admittedly, I have a bias. Some of my Mennonite ancestors were violently persecuted by the Catholic Church.

BS

Catholics have a fear of God that no other Christian outside its gates has

Historically, Catholics were violently persecuted, I do know that... still are.

Maybe what happened with your ancestors was that THEY started some violent thing and the Catholics defended themselves. I have no idea, but you are acting like a liberal when you neglect to give details, yet act like we are just supposed to take your word for it

 

[1miseryindex]

For me, it was a matter of choice. I could spend my time with all the politics around the Enlightenment and the various wars/battles of that time, or I could spend my time on the Bible and the histories of its languages and cultures. I don't do half-way measures, and I chose the Bible and all its histories.

If you have any extra time, do some research on what Protestants were doing to Catholics. I read enough to understand it was very much a two-way street. And again, a lot of state politics thrown in. It was a fascinating mess, and for me, good research needs to be done right or not at all.

who had their heads cut off by the guillotine during the French Revolution?

Catholics

 

[hadit]

BS

Catholics have a fear of God that no other Christian outside its gates has

That's a bogus claim. You do not know men's hearts, yet here you are PRESUMING (remember you don't like presumption) to divine their thoughts.

Historically, Catholics were violently persecuted, I do know that... still are.

Not by Mennonites, they weren't.

Maybe what happened with your ancestors was that THEY started some violent thing and the Catholics defended themselves. I have no idea, but you are acting like a liberal when you neglect to give details, yet act like we are just supposed to take your word for it

Okay, you want details? Read this. If you won't, I don't believe that you really want details. First, Mennonites practice non-violence. They do not go to war and they do not "start some violent thing". They were persecuted, and the priest they were named after was a hunted man. For further edification and details, read The Martyr's Mirror.

Trace the Rough and Rugged Roots of the Mennonite Faith