Watch out it's coming, The political elite are going to take your rights away

[geauxtohell]

I think you're being a little paranoid.

Show me one instance where an American citizen has been indefinitely imprisoned without just cause.

You're making the claim that the President can imprison anyone without evidence. Show me the proof!

Oh and you might wasnt to read the part of the bill that has the "definitions".

What about killed?

 

[Conservative]

here is the whole section (linked earlier) that seems to be the problem child...

SEC. 1032. REQUIREMENT FOR MILITARY CUSTODY.

(a) Custody Pending Disposition Under Law of War-

(1) IN GENERAL- Except as provided in paragraph (4), the Armed Forces of the United States shall hold a person described in paragraph (2) who is captured in the course of hostilities authorized by the Authorization for Use of Military Force (Public Law 107-40) in military custody pending disposition under the law of war.

(2) COVERED PERSONS- The requirement in paragraph (1) shall apply to any person whose detention is authorized under section 1031 who is determined--

(A) to be a member of, or part of, al-Qaeda or an associated force that acts in coordination with or pursuant to the direction of al-Qaeda; and

(B) to have participated in the course of planning or carrying out an attack or attempted attack against the United States or its coalition partners.

(3) DISPOSITION UNDER LAW OF WAR- For purposes of this subsection, the disposition of a person under the law of war has the meaning given in section 1031(c), except that no transfer otherwise described in paragraph (4) of that section shall be made unless consistent with the requirements of section 1033.

(4) WAIVER FOR NATIONAL SECURITY- The Secretary of Defense may, in consultation with the Secretary of State and the Director of National Intelligence, waive the requirement of paragraph (1) if the Secretary submits to Congress a certification in writing that such a waiver is in the national security interests of the United States.

(b) Applicability to United States Citizens and Lawful Resident Aliens-

(1) UNITED STATES CITIZENS- The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to citizens of the United States.

(2) LAWFUL RESIDENT ALIENS- The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to a lawful resident alien of the United States on the basis of conduct taking place within the United States, except to the extent permitted by the Constitution of the United States.

(c) Implementation Procedures-

(1) IN GENERAL- Not later than 60 days after the date of the enactment of this Act, the President shall issue, and submit to Congress, procedures for implementing this section.

(2) ELEMENTS- The procedures for implementing this section shall include, but not be limited to, procedures as follows:

(A) Procedures designating the persons authorized to make determinations under subsection (a)(2) and the process by which such determinations are to be made.

(B) Procedures providing that the requirement for military custody under subsection (a)(1) does not require the interruption of ongoing surveillance or intelligence gathering with regard to persons not already in the custody or control of the United States.

(C) Procedures providing that a determination under subsection (a)(2) is not required to be implemented until after the conclusion of an interrogation session which is ongoing at the time the determination is made and does not require the interruption of any such ongoing session.

(D) Procedures providing that the requirement for military custody under subsection (a)(1) does not apply when intelligence, law enforcement, or other government officials of the United States are granted access to an individual who remains in the custody of a third country.

(E) Procedures providing that a certification of national security interests under subsection (a)(4) may be granted for the purpose of transferring a covered person from a third country if such a transfer is in the interest of the United States and could not otherwise be accomplished.

(d) Effective Date- This section shall take effect on the date that is 60 days after the date of the enactment of this Act, and shall apply with respect to persons described in subsection (a)(2) who are taken into the custody or brought under the control of the United States on or after that effective date.

1...
who is captured in the course of hostilities
For someone to be detained they would have to actually be part of hostilities.

2...
(4) WAIVER FOR NATIONAL SECURITY- The Secretary of Defense may, in consultation with the Secretary of State and the Director of National Intelligence, waive the requirement of paragraph (1) if the Secretary submits to Congress a certification in writing that such a waiver is in the national security interests of the United States.
The only way to waive the first section requirements (meaning someone NOT actually part of the hostilities could be detained) is if the Sec. of Defense, Sec. of State and the Director of NI waive the requirement in that case, and submit it in writing to Congress.

3...
(1) UNITED STATES CITIZENS- The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to citizens of the United States.
It's all moot, as it DOES NOT APPLY TO US CITIZENS.

what part of this...

(1) UNITED STATES CITIZENS- The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to citizens of the United States.

eludes most of you???

 

[Mad Scientist]

Hey, if the Gov't needs to lock everyone up to keep us free, well then we should support that. Anyone who thinks otherwise, is against the gov't and a potential enemy combatant.

Sen. Mark Udall (D-Colo.) is offering the Udall Amendment that will delete the harmful provisions and replace them with a requirement for an orderly Congressional review of detention power. The Udall Amendment will make sure that the bill matches up with American values.

See? that'll get all that there "harmful stuff" out and Congress is gonna' review it.

Besides, if this Bill were really that bad, Obama would Veto it. So you got nothin' to worry about.

 

[del]

Show where an American has been indefinitely imprisoned without charge that wasn't engaged in hostilities against the US.

so you're okay with the govt indefinitely imprisoning people without charge.

do you look good in brown?

The thing about it is, and what you fail to realize, is that no one would be imprisoned indefinitely without evidence. You seem to think the govt. would just throw people in prison without just cause.

If there are people whether they're Americans or not, plotting to terrorize/kill Americans, then yes they should be stopped before they do harm.

do you believe in the tooth fairy?

 

[Lonestar_logic]

are you this naive in real life? really?

Show where an American has been indefinitely imprisoned without charge that wasn't engaged in hostilities against the US.

What about killed?

What about killed?

You cannot show me one instance where an American citizen was targeted to be killed by our government without just cause.

I assume you're referring to Awlaki.

* The U.S . government claims that Awlaki has tried to obtain weapons of mass destruction – specifically poisons such as cyanide and ricin – for use in attacking Westerners.

* Awlaki specifically directed Umar Faruq Abdulmutallab in December 2009 to detonate the “underwear” bomb on board a Christmas Day Northwest Airlines flight to Detroit. The government said that Awlaki told Abdulmutallab to detonate the bomb while over U.S. airspace so as to maximize casualties.

* In October 2010, AQAP attempted to explode two U.S. cargo planes by detonating explosives hidden in ink cartridges mailed to synagogues in Chicago. The U.S. government said that Awlaki directly supervised this failed terrorist plot.

* In 2010, Awlaki communicated with Rajib Karim, then a British airlines worker, seeking a way to get a bomb aboard a plane at Heathrow Airport. Karim was convicted in March 2011 in a British court on terrorism charges, and sentenced to 30 years in prison.

The U.S. government also said Awlaki incited terrorism:

* In a May 2010 interview with “Al Qaeda Media,” Awlaki said he supported operations such as the failed Christmas Day bombing even though they target innocent civilians.

“With regard to the issue of ‘civilians,’ this term has become prevalent these days, but I prefer to use the terms employed by our jurisprudents. They classify people as either combatants or noncombatants,” he said. “My message to the Muslims in general, and to those in the Arabian Peninsula in particular, is that we should participate in this jihad against America.”

Awlaki said attacks against U.S .service members, such as those shot by Lt. Nidal Hasan, were perfectly valid: “How can we possibly oppose an operation like Nidal Hasan’s? He killed American soldiers on their way to Afghanistan and Iraq. Who could possibly oppose this?”

* The U.S. government blames Awlaki for “inspiring” terrorist attacks against the U.S., including Fort Hood shooter Hasan – who emailed with him, having attended some of Awlaki’s sermons in Virginia. Failed Times Square bomber Faisal Shahzad claimed to have been “inspired by” Awlaki.

* In March 2010, Awlaki said in an audio message that “America is evil” and called for violence against the U.S. “With the American invasion of Iraq and continued U.S. aggression against Muslims, I could not reconcile between living in the U.S. and being a Muslim, and I eventually came to the conclusion that jihad against America is binding upon myself just as it is binding on every other Muslim,” he said.

* Awlaki wrote several articles for INSPIRE magazine, published by AQAP, to justify terrorist attacks.

The U.S. government also notes that in January a Yemeni court sentenced Awlaki in absentia to ten years in prison for “forming an armed gang” to target foreigners and law enforcement personnel.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

I think you're being a little paranoid.

Show me one instance where an American citizen has been indefinitely imprisoned without just cause.

You're making the claim that the President can imprison anyone without evidence. Show me the proof!

Oh and you might wasnt to read the part of the bill that has the "definitions".

What about killed?

And I'm paranoid according to lone star. Would history be paranoid if it repeated itself?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Show where an American has been indefinitely imprisoned without charge that wasn't engaged in hostilities against the US.

What about killed?

What about killed?

You cannot show me one instance where an American citizen was targeted to be killed by our government without just cause.

I assume you're referring to Awlaki.

* The U.S . government claims that Awlaki has tried to obtain weapons of mass destruction – specifically poisons such as cyanide and ricin – for use in attacking Westerners.

* Awlaki specifically directed Umar Faruq Abdulmutallab in December 2009 to detonate the “underwear” bomb on board a Christmas Day Northwest Airlines flight to Detroit. The government said that Awlaki told Abdulmutallab to detonate the bomb while over U.S. airspace so as to maximize casualties.

* In October 2010, AQAP attempted to explode two U.S. cargo planes by detonating explosives hidden in ink cartridges mailed to synagogues in Chicago. The U.S. government said that Awlaki directly supervised this failed terrorist plot.

* In 2010, Awlaki communicated with Rajib Karim, then a British airlines worker, seeking a way to get a bomb aboard a plane at Heathrow Airport. Karim was convicted in March 2011 in a British court on terrorism charges, and sentenced to 30 years in prison.

The U.S. government also said Awlaki incited terrorism:

* In a May 2010 interview with “Al Qaeda Media,” Awlaki said he supported operations such as the failed Christmas Day bombing even though they target innocent civilians.

“With regard to the issue of ‘civilians,’ this term has become prevalent these days, but I prefer to use the terms employed by our jurisprudents. They classify people as either combatants or noncombatants,” he said. “My message to the Muslims in general, and to those in the Arabian Peninsula in particular, is that we should participate in this jihad against America.”

Awlaki said attacks against U.S .service members, such as those shot by Lt. Nidal Hasan, were perfectly valid: “How can we possibly oppose an operation like Nidal Hasan’s? He killed American soldiers on their way to Afghanistan and Iraq. Who could possibly oppose this?”

* The U.S. government blames Awlaki for “inspiring” terrorist attacks against the U.S., including Fort Hood shooter Hasan – who emailed with him, having attended some of Awlaki’s sermons in Virginia. Failed Times Square bomber Faisal Shahzad claimed to have been “inspired by” Awlaki.

* In March 2010, Awlaki said in an audio message that “America is evil” and called for violence against the U.S. “With the American invasion of Iraq and continued U.S. aggression against Muslims, I could not reconcile between living in the U.S. and being a Muslim, and I eventually came to the conclusion that jihad against America is binding upon myself just as it is binding on every other Muslim,” he said.

* Awlaki wrote several articles for INSPIRE magazine, published by AQAP, to justify terrorist attacks.

The U.S. government also notes that in January a Yemeni court sentenced Awlaki in absentia to ten years in prison for “forming an armed gang” to target foreigners and law enforcement personnel.

Was he tried and convicted by his peers in a court of law?

 

[Lonestar_logic]

they pass a National Defense Authorization Act every fiscal year, fuckwit.

try again

So? That doesn't negate what I stated.

Yes it does.

How?

I stated that Obama signed the Act in 2009. How does the fact he passed one in Jan. 2010 negate that?

 

[Lonestar_logic]

so you're okay with the govt indefinitely imprisoning people without charge.

do you look good in brown?

The thing about it is, and what you fail to realize, is that no one would be imprisoned indefinitely without evidence. You seem to think the govt. would just throw people in prison without just cause.

If there are people whether they're Americans or not, plotting to terrorize/kill Americans, then yes they should be stopped before they do harm.

Hold on a second.

When did the standard for imprisonment move from "a jury trial of your peers" to mere "evidence".

They had "evidence" that Richard Jewell set off the bomb in Atlanta during the Olympics. They were wrong. (However, not before the whole world knew about his porno habits, and I hope that guys sued this shit out of CNN and won a ton of money).

There is obviously a problem that needs to be addressed here. This is not the way to do it.

Since 911

 

[geauxtohell]

what part of this...

(1) UNITED STATES CITIZENS- The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to citizens of the United States.

eludes most of you???

That doesn't forbid the detention of American citizens in military custody either.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

so you're okay with the govt indefinitely imprisoning people without charge.

do you look good in brown?

The thing about it is, and what you fail to realize, is that no one would be imprisoned indefinitely without evidence. You seem to think the govt. would just throw people in prison without just cause.

If there are people whether they're Americans or not, plotting to terrorize/kill Americans, then yes they should be stopped before they do harm.

do you believe in the tooth fairy?

No, but I do believe you are a total idiot that cannot argue your point intelligently. I'm still waiting on your evidence that Americans have been imprisoned indefinitely without just cause.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

The thing about it is, and what you fail to realize, is that no one would be imprisoned indefinitely without evidence. You seem to think the govt. would just throw people in prison without just cause.

If there are people whether they're Americans or not, plotting to terrorize/kill Americans, then yes they should be stopped before they do harm.

Hold on a second.

When did the standard for imprisonment move from "a jury trial of your peers" to mere "evidence".

They had "evidence" that Richard Jewell set off the bomb in Atlanta during the Olympics. They were wrong. (However, not before the whole world knew about his porno habits, and I hope that guys sued this shit out of CNN and won a ton of money).

There is obviously a problem that needs to be addressed here. This is not the way to do it.

Since 911

When people keep bringing up 9/11 as a way to defend the actions of the government. I keep hearing those words of Rahm Emanuel

“You don’t ever want a crisis to go to waste; it’s an opportunity to do important things that you would otherwise avoid.”

 

[Conservative]

what part of this...

(1) UNITED STATES CITIZENS- The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to citizens of the United States.

eludes most of you???

That doesn't forbid the detention of American citizens in military custody either.

you really need to read the entire section I quoted from... 1032.

 

[del]

The thing about it is, and what you fail to realize, is that no one would be imprisoned indefinitely without evidence. You seem to think the govt. would just throw people in prison without just cause.

If there are people whether they're Americans or not, plotting to terrorize/kill Americans, then yes they should be stopped before they do harm.

do you believe in the tooth fairy?

No, but I do believe you are a total idiot that cannot argue your point intelligently. I'm still waiting on your evidence that Americans have been imprisoned indefinitely without just cause.

i've already read enough from you to know that you're a nanny state pussy;there's really no point in taking this any further.

typical texan. all hat and no cattle.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

The thing about it is, and what you fail to realize, is that no one would be imprisoned indefinitely without evidence. You seem to think the govt. would just throw people in prison without just cause.

If there are people whether they're Americans or not, plotting to terrorize/kill Americans, then yes they should be stopped before they do harm.

do you believe in the tooth fairy?

No, but I do believe you are a total idiot that cannot argue your point intelligently. I'm still waiting on your evidence that Americans have been imprisoned indefinitely without just cause.

OXFORD, N.C. — Sixteen-year-old Ashton Lundeby's bedroom in his mother's Granville County home is nothing, if not patriotic. Images of American flags are everywhere – on the bed, on the floor, on the wall.

But according to the United States government, the tenth-grade home-schooler is being held on a criminal complaint that he made a bomb threat from his home on the night of Feb. 15.
Mom says Patriot Act stripped son of due process :: WRAL.com

 

[geauxtohell]

The thing about it is, and what you fail to realize, is that no one would be imprisoned indefinitely without evidence. You seem to think the govt. would just throw people in prison without just cause.

If there are people whether they're Americans or not, plotting to terrorize/kill Americans, then yes they should be stopped before they do harm.

Hold on a second.

When did the standard for imprisonment move from "a jury trial of your peers" to mere "evidence".

They had "evidence" that Richard Jewell set off the bomb in Atlanta during the Olympics. They were wrong. (However, not before the whole world knew about his porno habits, and I hope that guys sued this shit out of CNN and won a ton of money).

There is obviously a problem that needs to be addressed here. This is not the way to do it.

Since 911

So we chucked the Bill of Rights 10 years ago?

Amazing.

Sorry, I've never bought into the 9-11 trump card.

 

[geauxtohell]

what part of this...

(1) UNITED STATES CITIZENS- The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to citizens of the United States.

eludes most of you???

That doesn't forbid the detention of American citizens in military custody either.

you really need to read the entire section I quoted from... 1032.

I read it. It's also nice that we've given the SECDEF the ability to get a waiver.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

What about killed?

What about killed?

You cannot show me one instance where an American citizen was targeted to be killed by our government without just cause.

I assume you're referring to Awlaki.

* The U.S . government claims that Awlaki has tried to obtain weapons of mass destruction – specifically poisons such as cyanide and ricin – for use in attacking Westerners.

* Awlaki specifically directed Umar Faruq Abdulmutallab in December 2009 to detonate the “underwear” bomb on board a Christmas Day Northwest Airlines flight to Detroit. The government said that Awlaki told Abdulmutallab to detonate the bomb while over U.S. airspace so as to maximize casualties.

* In October 2010, AQAP attempted to explode two U.S. cargo planes by detonating explosives hidden in ink cartridges mailed to synagogues in Chicago. The U.S. government said that Awlaki directly supervised this failed terrorist plot.

* In 2010, Awlaki communicated with Rajib Karim, then a British airlines worker, seeking a way to get a bomb aboard a plane at Heathrow Airport. Karim was convicted in March 2011 in a British court on terrorism charges, and sentenced to 30 years in prison.

The U.S. government also said Awlaki incited terrorism:

* In a May 2010 interview with “Al Qaeda Media,” Awlaki said he supported operations such as the failed Christmas Day bombing even though they target innocent civilians.

“With regard to the issue of ‘civilians,’ this term has become prevalent these days, but I prefer to use the terms employed by our jurisprudents. They classify people as either combatants or noncombatants,” he said. “My message to the Muslims in general, and to those in the Arabian Peninsula in particular, is that we should participate in this jihad against America.”

Awlaki said attacks against U.S .service members, such as those shot by Lt. Nidal Hasan, were perfectly valid: “How can we possibly oppose an operation like Nidal Hasan’s? He killed American soldiers on their way to Afghanistan and Iraq. Who could possibly oppose this?”

* The U.S. government blames Awlaki for “inspiring” terrorist attacks against the U.S., including Fort Hood shooter Hasan – who emailed with him, having attended some of Awlaki’s sermons in Virginia. Failed Times Square bomber Faisal Shahzad claimed to have been “inspired by” Awlaki.

* In March 2010, Awlaki said in an audio message that “America is evil” and called for violence against the U.S. “With the American invasion of Iraq and continued U.S. aggression against Muslims, I could not reconcile between living in the U.S. and being a Muslim, and I eventually came to the conclusion that jihad against America is binding upon myself just as it is binding on every other Muslim,” he said.

* Awlaki wrote several articles for INSPIRE magazine, published by AQAP, to justify terrorist attacks.

The U.S. government also notes that in January a Yemeni court sentenced Awlaki in absentia to ten years in prison for “forming an armed gang” to target foreigners and law enforcement personnel.

Was he tried and convicted by his peers in a court of law?

No he wasn't. And rightly so.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

What about killed?

You cannot show me one instance where an American citizen was targeted to be killed by our government without just cause.

I assume you're referring to Awlaki.

* The U.S . government claims that Awlaki has tried to obtain weapons of mass destruction – specifically poisons such as cyanide and ricin – for use in attacking Westerners.

* Awlaki specifically directed Umar Faruq Abdulmutallab in December 2009 to detonate the “underwear” bomb on board a Christmas Day Northwest Airlines flight to Detroit. The government said that Awlaki told Abdulmutallab to detonate the bomb while over U.S. airspace so as to maximize casualties.

* In October 2010, AQAP attempted to explode two U.S. cargo planes by detonating explosives hidden in ink cartridges mailed to synagogues in Chicago. The U.S. government said that Awlaki directly supervised this failed terrorist plot.

* In 2010, Awlaki communicated with Rajib Karim, then a British airlines worker, seeking a way to get a bomb aboard a plane at Heathrow Airport. Karim was convicted in March 2011 in a British court on terrorism charges, and sentenced to 30 years in prison.

The U.S. government also said Awlaki incited terrorism:

* In a May 2010 interview with “Al Qaeda Media,” Awlaki said he supported operations such as the failed Christmas Day bombing even though they target innocent civilians.

“With regard to the issue of ‘civilians,’ this term has become prevalent these days, but I prefer to use the terms employed by our jurisprudents. They classify people as either combatants or noncombatants,” he said. “My message to the Muslims in general, and to those in the Arabian Peninsula in particular, is that we should participate in this jihad against America.”

Awlaki said attacks against U.S .service members, such as those shot by Lt. Nidal Hasan, were perfectly valid: “How can we possibly oppose an operation like Nidal Hasan’s? He killed American soldiers on their way to Afghanistan and Iraq. Who could possibly oppose this?”

* The U.S. government blames Awlaki for “inspiring” terrorist attacks against the U.S., including Fort Hood shooter Hasan – who emailed with him, having attended some of Awlaki’s sermons in Virginia. Failed Times Square bomber Faisal Shahzad claimed to have been “inspired by” Awlaki.

* In March 2010, Awlaki said in an audio message that “America is evil” and called for violence against the U.S. “With the American invasion of Iraq and continued U.S. aggression against Muslims, I could not reconcile between living in the U.S. and being a Muslim, and I eventually came to the conclusion that jihad against America is binding upon myself just as it is binding on every other Muslim,” he said.

* Awlaki wrote several articles for INSPIRE magazine, published by AQAP, to justify terrorist attacks.

The U.S. government also notes that in January a Yemeni court sentenced Awlaki in absentia to ten years in prison for “forming an armed gang” to target foreigners and law enforcement personnel.

Was he tried and convicted by his peers in a court of law?

No he wasn't. And rightly so.

No he wasn't and rightly so?
So disregard rights is an acceptable thing now?

 

[Lonestar_logic]

do you believe in the tooth fairy?

No, but I do believe you are a total idiot that cannot argue your point intelligently. I'm still waiting on your evidence that Americans have been imprisoned indefinitely without just cause.

i've already read enough from you to know that you're a nanny state pussy;there's really no point in taking this any further.

typical texan. all hat and no cattle.

Your concession is duly noted.