Voting is the next game

[American Horse]

Yeah come up with a plan for this, and then pay for it, it would only cost about 5 billion dollars to do it I'm guessing. I don't have a problem with it, but many people don't have access to go somewhere to get this ID, and many people don't have permanent addresses. Students would be another problem.

It's your game, now tell us how this will work and who is going to pay for it, the postman?

Indiana has a model voter identification law - and it has passed constitution muster
Secretary of State : Election Division: Photo ID Law

Obtaining a Photo ID"If you do not possess an ID that is acceptable for voting purposes, Public Law 109-2005 requires the BMV to issue an Indiana State ID Card for free"

 

[Synthaholic]

I'll tell you what I will give you 2000 dollars for each person who is convicted of voter fraud and you give me a dollar for everyone who votes who isn't arrested and convicted?

The truth is most voter fraud cases is someone who registered in two places but only voted in one. A lot of snow birds do this, being registered in their home state but leave early to a warm climate and register at the poll in another state.

You guys have spent many millions on trying to turn up voter fraud like its a real big thing and it's cost you about 50,000 a vote.

many poor people don't drive, don't have bank accounts and have little need for one. College kids have their college ID or an out of state DL, neither that the republicans want to accept. why because poor people and students mostly vote for democrats. It's a fact, you guys will do anything to get your way.

You are incredibly naive.

My ex-father-in-law hated election days in Chicago. He was in the plumbing and heating supply business there and pals with all the big names in Mayor Dick Daley's machine.

He would submit inflated sealed bids for city contracts and often won the contract in spite of the fact that others were likely less costly to the city. No bid deal though because no one knew what the other guy bid. Once he won the contract the inflated part of it went back to the pols in the form of cash under the table.

His reward for playing ball with that scum was every election day he had a list of precincts spread out all over the city and what name he was to use at each in order to cast "his" ballot. He'd be at it from the time the poles opened until they closed. He'd often vote 20 times or more an election. One guy, twenty+ votes. And God only knows how many others did the same thing, probably hundreds if not more.

Anyone who doesn't think voter I.D.s are needed is either stupid or a Dimocrat. Oops, sorry for being redundant.

Nice story. I don't believe it.

And if it is true, your FIL is nothing but a crook.

 

[Care4all]

Yes, I thought the same thing about North Dakota.



Then what would stop a dishonest person in the registrar's office from informing the Republican Party that James Stevenson, living at 1818 Main St. in Anytown, MA has not voted in the last four elections, yet is still registered. Then for the Republican Party to send someone to the polling place and voting for Mr. Stevenson and everyone else that has not voted in X number of elections. Chances of getting caught are almost nil and the government would never pursue any case because they would not know about it.



Not according to mn's article. It stated that there had been over 120 people charged and over 86 convictions. Although, it said the charges were mostly for people not knowing the laws.



And if the card was returned by someone else claiming to be the registered voter who later voted for that person?



So then, you would not have a problem with this if it was the state that chose to require photo id?



The photo Id proves that you are the registered voter you are claiming to be. It is not all that easy for David Larson to get an ID stating that he is the James Stevenson mentioned above but David could easily walk into a voting precinct and say he was James Stevenson, sign his name, vote for him and be gone with no one being the wiser of it.



So, rather than address any fraud at all, you think we should ignore all of it?

Immie

can you find the many cases where someone walked in to a voting precinct and voted in another registered voters place, and show them to us....? There should be prosecutions of said law breakers....?

at this point I could care less if states change their own laws on ID, but I still stand by that it is only a distraction, to the REAL voter fraud that IS taking place....

Does it really matter if 0, 1 or 1,000,000 people have done it before. Laws are developed to lessen or eliminate to possibility of something that we deem to be immoral from happening. It does not matter one little bit how many times it has happened in the past, what matters is the possibility that it can happen in the future.

Now, I have answered your questions, please answer mine. Why are liberals so opposed to providing voter identification at the polls? I can tell you that there is only one reason I can come up with and you liberals won't like my answer.

Immie

I personally think it is an invasion of privacy....and an over reach of gvt, to make us all get government id's....(next they will be demanding you show it everywhere, can you say/// "Papers Please" in your best German accent?) Call me old school, or a paranoid Christian, if you wish...

my ex mother in law, did not have a picture id...people in cities, the poor, and many others that that tend to vote for Democrats do not have state id's, but they are citizen's none the less who have registered to vote.

so I see it, as it appears, that those on the right just want to make it harder for legitimate citizens that tend to vote democratic....In fact, it appears plain as day....

 

[Immanuel]

can you find the many cases where someone walked in to a voting precinct and voted in another registered voters place, and show them to us....? There should be prosecutions of said law breakers....?

at this point I could care less if states change their own laws on ID, but I still stand by that it is only a distraction, to the REAL voter fraud that IS taking place....

Does it really matter if 0, 1 or 1,000,000 people have done it before. Laws are developed to lessen or eliminate to possibility of something that we deem to be immoral from happening. It does not matter one little bit how many times it has happened in the past, what matters is the possibility that it can happen in the future.

Now, I have answered your questions, please answer mine. Why are liberals so opposed to providing voter identification at the polls? I can tell you that there is only one reason I can come up with and you liberals won't like my answer.

Immie

I personally think it is an invasion of privacy....and an over reach of gvt, to make us all get government id's....(next they will be demanding you show it everywhere, can you say/// "Papers Please" in your best German accent?) Call me old school, or a paranoid Christian, if you wish...

my ex mother in law, did not have a picture id...people in cities, the poor, and many others that that tend to vote for Democrats do not have state id's, but they are citizen's none the less who have registered to vote.

so I see it, as it appears, that those on the right just want to make it harder for legitimate citizens that tend to vote democratic....In fact, it appears plain as day....

What appears plain as day is that Democrats are happy to defend allowing individuals to vote in place of others and not afraid to admit it. Well, I take that back, they are afraid to admit it in public.

I honestly do not believe you on this claim that a vast number of people do not have ids. Come on, you damn near can't take a crap in a public restroom without one. Give me a break.

Immie

 

[Trajan]

I'd like to ask then IF your name is documented at an address and a polling place in your neighborhood, okay, no ID in your registered polling place, I can see that.

When you are outside your district etc. you can vote provisionally......do you show ID? and whats stopping you from going to several polling places and voting umpteen times? Do they catch all of them?

How on earth do dead people show up on later as having voted?



how about absentee ballots? or vote by mail which is becoming huge? Its all verified in the back room somewhere ...

 

[Care4all]

I'd like to ask then IF your name is documented at an address and a polling place in your neighborhood, okay, no ID in your registered polling place, I can see that.

When you are outside your district etc. you can vote provisionally......do you show ID? and whats stopping you from going to several polling places and voting umpteen times? Do they catch all of them?

How on earth do dead people show up on later as having voted?



how about absentee ballots? or vote by mail which is becoming huge? Its all verified in the back room somewhere ...

A provisional ballot is not counted in the vote tally....until it is cleared. i am presuming the same checks on citizens registering to vote is put upon the person on the provisional ballots...I do know it takes weeks for a provisional ballot vote, to be added to the tallies.

Absentee voting, voting by mail... is the BIGGEST LOOPHOLE, and through THIS is where I think MOST voter fraud is taking place...not our military vote, but other absentee votes is where dead people get to vote, or people get to vote twice, like those who live in the north and Florida, might vote absentee in their original home state and vote in person, if in Florida, at their 2nd home....

You would think that once a person dies, that they would be removed from the voter registration list? the SS administration who by law is notified of the death.... should send an automatic notification to the last state the dead person lived in...

for goodness sakes, this is the computer age....you would also think that something could be figured out....?

 

[Flopper]

I certainly wish that a liberal, any liberal, such as yourself would tell me what you all have against a voter having to prove who he/she is before they vote. To me, it only makes sense that someone who comes to vote must prove who they are before they vote and that they have the legal right to do so.

The fact that you are so opposed to proper identification makes you all seem suspect.

Maybe you can tell me why you don't think a person should have to prove who they are in order to vote?

Immie

Every state I have lived in, which are quite a few have required that I show a voter's id card or other id. Maybe some states are different. I consider myself liberal, or at least not a conservative and I certainly believe in voter identification.

Funny, but I have read many of your posts. I honestly do not consider you all that liberal. Nor do I believe, nor did I say, all liberals are opposed to voter id.

It simply does not make sense to me that anyone would be opposed to voter id laws. I do not think mnbasketball would travel to multiple locations and vote in multiple precincts, so it really does not make any sense why he would oppose it. It is not like there is some vast number of people in this country that do not have some form of legal identification! So what is the hang-up here?

Immie

I agree. I don't know why anyone would objection to voter identification. I suppose some people might forget their ID, but that's no excuse.

 

[KissMy]

Oh! No! Dead People & Scooby Doo won't be able to vote!

 

[zzzz]

Indiana has had a voter ID law since 2005. If you do not have a government issued ID you can get one for free form the BMV. However in our last election one of our retired military was denied a chance to vote because the election official would not accept his military ID. The result of volunteers in the election process.

I think if states limit college students voting because of residency then the military would be in the same boat. The law would be discriminatory and therefore unconstitutional. A deadline should be in effect for all states so that people would have time to get voter rolls updated and all the paperwork done and filed. Same day registration to me is stupid and invites errors and corruption.

But having a government issued ID to vote should be required of every voter. To get the ID should be free and easy to get with proof of citizenship/birth certificate.

 

[Synthaholic]

Yes, I thought the same thing about North Dakota.



Then what would stop a dishonest person in the registrar's office from informing the Republican Party that James Stevenson, living at 1818 Main St. in Anytown, MA has not voted in the last four elections, yet is still registered. Then for the Republican Party to send someone to the polling place and voting for Mr. Stevenson and everyone else that has not voted in X number of elections. Chances of getting caught are almost nil and the government would never pursue any case because they would not know about it.



Not according to mn's article. It stated that there had been over 120 people charged and over 86 convictions. Although, it said the charges were mostly for people not knowing the laws.



And if the card was returned by someone else claiming to be the registered voter who later voted for that person?



So then, you would not have a problem with this if it was the state that chose to require photo id?



The photo Id proves that you are the registered voter you are claiming to be. It is not all that easy for David Larson to get an ID stating that he is the James Stevenson mentioned above but David could easily walk into a voting precinct and say he was James Stevenson, sign his name, vote for him and be gone with no one being the wiser of it.



So, rather than address any fraud at all, you think we should ignore all of it?

Immie

can you find the many cases where someone walked in to a voting precinct and voted in another registered voters place, and show them to us....? There should be prosecutions of said law breakers....?

at this point I could care less if states change their own laws on ID, but I still stand by that it is only a distraction, to the REAL voter fraud that IS taking place....

Does it really matter if 0, 1 or 1,000,000 people have done it before. Laws are developed to lessen or eliminate to possibility of something that we deem to be immoral from happening. It does not matter one little bit how many times it has happened in the past, what matters is the possibility that it can happen in the future.

Now, I have answered your questions, please answer mine. Why are liberals so opposed to providing voter identification at the polls? I can tell you that there is only one reason I can come up with and you liberals won't like my answer.

Immie

We are not opposed. But what is proper ID? We know that drivers licenses are legit. But they also are getting more and more expensive, and I'm sure Libertarians will agree with Liberals that you should not be forced to pay, essentially, a tax on your citizenship each year in the form of a drivers license. And many people don't drive, and cannot drive! So that's only a partial answer.

Democrats floated the idea of a National ID Card, but Rightwingers went apeshit. Why is that?

 

[Care4all]

Does it really matter if 0, 1 or 1,000,000 people have done it before. Laws are developed to lessen or eliminate to possibility of something that we deem to be immoral from happening. It does not matter one little bit how many times it has happened in the past, what matters is the possibility that it can happen in the future.

Now, I have answered your questions, please answer mine. Why are liberals so opposed to providing voter identification at the polls? I can tell you that there is only one reason I can come up with and you liberals won't like my answer.

Immie

I personally think it is an invasion of privacy....and an over reach of gvt, to make us all get government id's....(next they will be demanding you show it everywhere, can you say/// "Papers Please" in your best German accent?) Call me old school, or a paranoid Christian, if you wish...

my ex mother in law, did not have a picture id...people in cities, the poor, and many others that that tend to vote for Democrats do not have state id's, but they are citizen's none the less who have registered to vote.

so I see it, as it appears, that those on the right just want to make it harder for legitimate citizens that tend to vote democratic....In fact, it appears plain as day....

What appears plain as day is that Democrats are happy to defend allowing individuals to vote in place of others and not afraid to admit it. Well, I take that back, they are afraid to admit it in public.

I honestly do not believe you on this claim that a vast number of people do not have ids. Come on, you damn near can't take a crap in a public restroom without one. Give me a break.

Immie

you said yourself the article said that those 100 were mostly mistakes...not people taking the place of another's vote.....so, where is this voter fraud that i am suppose to address?

over reach of gvt....

i have no problems with gvt making the registration process safer....requiring a copy of ones birth certificate, and other pertinent id's...

and to answer some of your other questions, a stranger can't get the 'postcard' and return it with a new address, because the postcard is sent to the voter....mail fraud or stealing someone's mail, is a felony....besides the fact that the registered citizen would know they did not get their card.

those that may see that you haven't voted would not go to your precinct to vote in your place....why risk such? They would use absentee voting more than likely....

go ahead, have your state institute voter id laws....if that makes you feel all safe and cushy....but to me, it is slight of hand...the real voter fraud is not being addressed.

 

[bucs90]

R. Maddow laid it out for everyone. The republicans new plan to win elections is make sure those who are least likely to have the ID they will require will be kept from voting. All the way from College kids to the poor.
Texas has two groups that will be exempt from having to show ID's, the elderly and those who have conceal and carry.

Pay attention as voter intimidation comes to your red state.

We were gonna try posting radical militant black men with clubs in front of the voting locations..........but Dem's already stole that one from us.

 

[bucs90]

And BTW, is it legal to require a person to present an ID to exercise a right?

If one must present an ID to buy a gun, they should have to present one to vote. Both are rights. Both should require an ID to exercise that right.

 

[Immanuel]

can you find the many cases where someone walked in to a voting precinct and voted in another registered voters place, and show them to us....? There should be prosecutions of said law breakers....?

at this point I could care less if states change their own laws on ID, but I still stand by that it is only a distraction, to the REAL voter fraud that IS taking place....

Does it really matter if 0, 1 or 1,000,000 people have done it before. Laws are developed to lessen or eliminate to possibility of something that we deem to be immoral from happening. It does not matter one little bit how many times it has happened in the past, what matters is the possibility that it can happen in the future.

Now, I have answered your questions, please answer mine. Why are liberals so opposed to providing voter identification at the polls? I can tell you that there is only one reason I can come up with and you liberals won't like my answer.

Immie

We are not opposed. But what is proper ID? We know that drivers licenses are legit. But they also are getting more and more expensive, and I'm sure Libertarians will agree with Liberals that you should not be forced to pay, essentially, a tax on your citizenship each year in the form of a drivers license. And many people don't drive, and cannot drive! So that's only a partial answer.

Democrats floated the idea of a National ID Card, but Rightwingers went apeshit. Why is that?

Actually, some Democrats, some liberals, such as Care and I think mnbasketball are opposed to proper identification. If and when it is used to prevent legitimate voters from voting THAT should be nipped in the bud immediately.

As far as I am concerned, proper identification should be anything with a picture, including passport, driver's license or state id. I'm not sure that student id's should be allowed, because I am not positive they verify via birth certificate or any other form of legal identification as to who the person is, but if they do verify that information I have no problem with using them.

I, too, agree that one should not be forced to pay in order to vote and I have for a long time supported the issuance of id's to those who cannot afford them for the purpose of voting. Requiring someone to purchase a state issued id in order to vote would in fact be a poll tax and might be used to prevent the poor from voting... as some officials might just be so brash as to set the cost of an id to some exorbitant amount. We can't have that.

But dog gone it, at least make sure that the people who are voting are who they say they are! I simply can only come up with one reason why someone would be opposed to that.

Immie

 

[Immanuel]

I personally think it is an invasion of privacy....and an over reach of gvt, to make us all get government id's....(next they will be demanding you show it everywhere, can you say/// "Papers Please" in your best German accent?) Call me old school, or a paranoid Christian, if you wish...

my ex mother in law, did not have a picture id...people in cities, the poor, and many others that that tend to vote for Democrats do not have state id's, but they are citizen's none the less who have registered to vote.

so I see it, as it appears, that those on the right just want to make it harder for legitimate citizens that tend to vote democratic....In fact, it appears plain as day....

What appears plain as day is that Democrats are happy to defend allowing individuals to vote in place of others and not afraid to admit it. Well, I take that back, they are afraid to admit it in public.

I honestly do not believe you on this claim that a vast number of people do not have ids. Come on, you damn near can't take a crap in a public restroom without one. Give me a break.

Immie

you said yourself the article said that those 100 were mostly mistakes...not people taking the place of another's vote.....so, where is this voter fraud that i am suppose to address?

over reach of gvt....

i have no problems with gvt making the registration process safer....requiring a copy of ones birth certificate, and other pertinent id's...

and to answer some of your other questions, a stranger can't get the 'postcard' and return it with a new address, because the postcard is sent to the voter....mail fraud or stealing someone's mail, is a felony....besides the fact that the registered citizen would know they did not get their card.

those that may see that you haven't voted would not go to your precinct to vote in your place....why risk such? They would use absentee voting more than likely....

go ahead, have your state institute voter id laws....if that makes you feel all safe and cushy....but to me, it is slight of hand...the real voter fraud is not being addressed.

You must be tired again.

You don't seem to have any idea why we have laws in this country. Laws are written to stop people from doing things in the future, what has been done in the past is irrelevant.

i have no problems with gvt making the registration process safer....requiring a copy of ones birth certificate, and other pertinent id's...

Of course Democrats have no problem with getting as many registered voters on the rolls. The more phony registrations that make it onto the rolls, the more illegal votes that can be cast.

and to answer some of your other questions, a stranger can't get the 'postcard' and return it with a new address, because the postcard is sent to the voter....mail fraud or stealing someone's mail, is a felony....besides the fact that the registered citizen would know they did not get their card.

Um, you realize that voter fraud is also a felony, right? Do you think that someone who is going to commit voter fraud is all that concerned about also committing mail fraud? I somehow doubt it. Also, no one said a word about changing the address. Why would they change the address? If they know the other voter has left town, they only need to return the postcard and then show up on election day and claim to be the person that lives in that house and they vote for him. Who's gonna know?

go ahead, have your state institute voter id laws....if that makes you feel all safe and cushy....but to me, it is slight of hand...the real voter fraud is not being addressed.

Of course, it is not, Democrats don't want to address it. Dead men tell no tales, but they sure as hell can vote.

Immie

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

You have to have an ID to get a job, drive, cash a check, travel.... but not to vote and affect the direction of our nation.

Ok.

 

[Zoom-boing]

I certainly wish that a liberal, any liberal, such as yourself would tell me what you all have against a voter having to prove who he/she is before they vote. To me, it only makes sense that someone who comes to vote must prove who they are before they vote and that they have the legal right to do so.

The fact that you are so opposed to proper identification makes you all seem suspect.

Maybe you can tell me why you don't think a person should have to prove who they are in order to vote?

Immie

That's not the issue, Immie. It's things like, say, a student at Univ. Of Florida not being allowed to vote in Gainesville, but only in the Florida town they live in.

Bullshit like that.

I'm hoping that Democrats turn their attention to absentee voting to foil these blatant attempts to make it difficult for young people to vote.

Is there a reason that they can't vote absentee ballot now? It's not hard, even for a college student.

 

[Immanuel]

I certainly wish that a liberal, any liberal, such as yourself would tell me what you all have against a voter having to prove who he/she is before they vote. To me, it only makes sense that someone who comes to vote must prove who they are before they vote and that they have the legal right to do so.

The fact that you are so opposed to proper identification makes you all seem suspect.

Maybe you can tell me why you don't think a person should have to prove who they are in order to vote?

Immie

That's not the issue, Immie. It's things like, say, a student at Univ. Of Florida not being allowed to vote in Gainesville, but only in the Florida town they live in.

Bullshit like that.

I'm hoping that Democrats turn their attention to absentee voting to foil these blatant attempts to make it difficult for young people to vote.

Is there a reason that they can't vote absentee ballot now? It's not hard, even for a college student.

A Democrat college student? /ducks and covers Just kidding everyone!!!!

Immie

 

[Care4all]

And BTW, is it legal to require a person to present an ID to exercise a right?

If one must present an ID to buy a gun, they should have to present one to vote. Both are rights. Both should require an ID to exercise that right.

it depends. If the voter can easily get a gvt id AT NO COST, it would pass muster...but if the voter is required to go through hoops to get one and to PAY for an id to use when they vote, then that could be considered a "poll tax" which is ILLEGAL.

 

[FreedomAli]

If voting could change anything they would make it illegal. Seeing how everyone on this board wants to support the government against Assange, and wants the government to be able to lie to them about everything and would rather the lies go unexposed, what difference does it make? Everything you are told is lies and you want the government to be able to keep people ingnorant and to be lied to, so what shall they base their decision of who to vote for on, lies and indoctrination?