US Sues Az.

[boedicca]

I hope this ends up before the SCOTUS very quickly.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

talk about an idiot: Kris Kobach, a law professor at the University of Missouri-Kansas City

Is Arizona's new immigration law unconstitutional? - CSMonitor.com

Kobach said the Arizona law itself bars officers from relying on illegal factors like race, color, or ethnicity in making reasonable suspicion determinations.

One likely scenario

He offered an example of a likely scenario faced by local officials: An Arizona police officer stops a van driving erratically in a remote area known as an alien smuggling corridor.

“You might have a vehicle overloaded, no one in the vehicle has any identification whatsoever. The driver of the vehicle is acting evasively and trying not to answer the officer’s questions, perhaps one person in the vehicle concedes that he is unlawfully present [in the US],” Kobach said.

“At that point the officer would have reasonable suspicion that the other occupants in the vehicle are unlawfully present [in the US], and at that point this law requires the officer to [contact a 24-hour federal immigration hotline] to verify whether the individuals are lawfully or unlawfully present in the country,” he said.

Kobach said mere failure to have a driver’s license is not reasonable suspicion under the Arizona law. “It is two or more of these individual factors, then the totality of circumstances exist” to authorize the federal contact, he said.

---

I guess the ivory tower fool thinks law enforcement officers carry out the letter of the law and never abuse the limited powers we give them.

 

[Tech_Esq]

I hope this ends up before the SCOTUS very quickly.

Me too!

I also wish Joe's Law and Grill would stop granting law degrees to senior members of the Justice department.

 

[B. Kidd]

The requirement to detain people based on "reasonable suspicion" is a standard purely of Arizona's creation which does not exist anywhere in federal law. It's an attempt to make the federal government prosecute federal cases based on arrest and detention standards which exist nowhere but in Arizona's law.

The 4th Amendment states no UNreasonable seizures.

AZ did not create the "reasonable suspicion" standard.

Most traffic case law nationwide, as an example, gives officers authority to pull over a motorists IF a reasonable suspicion/belief exists they violated a traffic law.

Terry v. Ohio, US SC, was based on a reasonable belief, by the officer, the men were casing the store.

A police officer can detain an individual, whether on foot or in a car, as long as it is a reasonable seizure, probable cause is not needed, but may be present, yes.

There is tons of RS case law out there, state and federal.

I know you know the law...but....'probable cause' for a stop is based on 'reasonable suspicion'.
In real-case sense, almost one and the same, basically, because the intial 'stop' or probable cause, is rooted in 'reasonable suspicion', which is defined differently, in different states.
Worked in law here in NV. for 22 years, 7 years before that in New Jersey.
E.G., here in NV., probable cause for a stop, can be initially supported by the phrase....'looked suspicious'.
Probably 50 percent, or more, of the posters on USMB, could legally be pulled over here!

 

[Pepe]

I expect this to be the first in a long procession of Lawsuits pitting the Sovereign and Independent States against the Imperial Leviathan located in the District of Corruption.

Think 10th Amendment.

Hell, even the UN recognizes the "Right to Self-Defense."

The Unconstitutional Health Care Bill is also in the line up for "Nullification" and/or lawsuit by multiple States.

The Empire of the United States is now in the throes of "Balkanization."

The only question is whether the "Breakup" will be peaceful vis a vis Czechoslovakia and the old USSR or violent.

To clarify and remind. The 10th Amendment is unenforceable as it stands right now. The USSC in U.S. v. Darby Lumber in overturning Hamer v. Daggenhart said that the 10th Amendment was a truism, nothing more. So, unless the USSC changes it's mind, forget the 10th Amendment, it'll just make you crazy.

The Health care bill is being challenged by 20 states. Not on the basis of "nullification" at theory that has already been shot down in the 1830s, but on the Constitutionality of forcing the population to purchase something from a private entity through the mechanism of the commerce clause. If the feds are successful on the point it would be the largest expansion of federal government power since the Ollie's Barbecue case. Or maybe even Wickard v. Filburn.

Balkanization, unlikely. Chances below 10%

The "Real ID Act" (2005) was "de facto" Nullified by the States.

As far as I know it is not in force.

This Act is also where I believe Obama and Holder are going to have their balls handed to themselves.

§202(c)(3)(B) A state shall not accept any foreign document other than an official passport

The above leads me, a non lawyer, to believe Metricula Cards issued by the Mexican Consulates without verification of the applicants bona fides will aid Arizona in its struggle with the leviathan.

 

[keee keee]

Found this on another site
Here are 14 reasons illegal aliens should vacate America,

1. $14 billion to $22 billion dollars are spent each year on welfare to illegal aliens.(that' s Billion with a 'B') FAIR: Immigration and Welfare

2. $2.2 billion dollars are spent each year on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens. Center for Immigration Studies

3. $7.5 billion dollars are spent each year on Medicaid for illegal aliens. Center for Immigration Studies

4. $12 billion dollars are spent each year on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally and they still cannot speak a word of English! CNN.com - Transcripts

5. $27 billion dollars are spent each year for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies. CNN.com - Transcripts

6. $3 Million Dollars 'PER DAY' is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens. That's $1.2 Billion a year. CNN.com - Transcripts

7. 28% percent of all federal prison inmates are illegal aliens.
CNN.com - Transcripts

8. $190 billion dollars are spent each year on illegal aliens for welfare & social services by the American taxpayers. - http://transcripts. cnn.com/TRANSCRI PTS/0610/ 29/ldt.01. html

9. $200 billion dollars per year in suppressed American wages are caused by the illegal aliens.
CNN.com - Transcripts

10. The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's two and a half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular, their children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the US. http://transcripts. cnn.com/TRANSCRI PTS/0606/ 12/ldt.01. html

11. During the year 2005, there were 8 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that crossed our southern border with as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from other terrorist countries. Over 10,000 of those were middle-eastern terrorists. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroine, crack, Guns, and marijuana crossed into the U.S.from the southern border. http://tinyurl.com/t9sht

12. The National Policy Institute, estimates that the total cost of mass deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion, or an average cost of between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute./.org/publications.php?b= deportation

13. In 2006, illegal aliens sent home $65 BILLION in remittances back to their countries of origin, to their families and friends. Wooldridge - How Much Further Into This Nightmare?

14. The dark side of illegal immigration: Nearly one million sex crimes are committed by illegal immigrants in the United States! Deborah Schurman-Kauflin, Ph.D. - Criminal Profiler : Crime & Terrorism investigation resources




Read more: GOPUSA » Fresh Ink » Mr. President, American citizens are under attack. DO SOMETHING.
Kind of interesting don't you think?
In your opinion what is the benifit of having these people here?

 

[Againsheila]

I hope this ends up before the SCOTUS very quickly.

I bet ya $20 they refuse to hear the case....

 

[lawbuff]

The requirement to detain people based on "reasonable suspicion" is a standard purely of Arizona's creation which does not exist anywhere in federal law. It's an attempt to make the federal government prosecute federal cases based on arrest and detention standards which exist nowhere but in Arizona's law.

The 4th Amendment states no UNreasonable seizures.

AZ did not create the "reasonable suspicion" standard.

Most traffic case law nationwide, as an example, gives officers authority to pull over a motorists IF a reasonable suspicion/belief exists they violated a traffic law.

Terry v. Ohio, US SC, was based on a reasonable belief, by the officer, the men were casing the store.

A police officer can detain an individual, whether on foot or in a car, as long as it is a reasonable seizure, probable cause is not needed, but may be present, yes.

There is tons of RS case law out there, state and federal.

I know you know the law...but....'probable cause' for a stop is based on 'reasonable suspicion'.
In real-case sense, almost one and the same, basically, because the intial 'stop' or probable cause, is rooted in 'reasonable suspicion', which is defined differently, in different states.
Worked in law here in NV. for 22 years, 7 years before that in New Jersey.
E.G., here in NV., probable cause for a stop, can be initially supported by the phrase....'looked suspicious'.

I do know the US SC has equated "Reasonable cause", with "Probable cause".

However, "Reasonable/articulable suspicion" is not the same as Probable cause.

Probale Cause is the standard for arrest or issuing a citation, not an investigative detention.

I respect your post, just disagree.

If you have heard the expression "He was arrested on suspicion of...", it is merely phraseology, as suspicion is NOT a basis to arrest, only PC.

Probably 50 percent, or more, of the posters on USMB, could legally be pulled over here!

Me included! Ha!

 

[lawbuff]

I hope this ends up before the SCOTUS very quickly.

I bet ya $20 they refuse to hear the case....

Oh they will grant Certiorari alright, if it gets that far, but it is years away, unless the Court of Appeals is bypassed. SCOTUS will hear cases that are bypassed IF there is a National concern, there may very well be one here?

 

[froggy]

Over 700 thousand illegal immigrants have made Arizona their home in the past 2 and a half years and our federal government did nothing.
Comment by Jeri George

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Notice the justice department isn't approaching this from a "racial profiling" position

Wonder why

 

[froggy]

I meant starting with the DOJ not Sen. Russell Pearce my bad.

 

[WillowTree]

asswipe nominated sotomyors azz cause he knew he was gonna do this shit.

 

[Againsheila]

I hope this ends up before the SCOTUS very quickly.

I bet ya $20 they refuse to hear the case....

Oh they will grant Certiorari alright, if it gets that far, but it is years away, unless the Court of Appeals is bypassed. SCOTUS will hear cases that are bypassed IF there is a National concern, there may very well be one here?

There was national concern as to Obama's citizenship...how many times did they refuse to hear that case? They won't hear this one either. BTW, hope I'm wrong and have to send you the $20 but the truth is, I lost faith in our government the day a Mexican official announced that this is Mexico and our government did NOTHING.

 

[maineman]

I'm no immigration lawyer, but it seems to me that the federal case revolves around the fact that individual states are not the ones to be deciding who or who is not a citizen or who is or is not entitled to be here. US citizenship status is not an issue for states to decide. Where is the legitimate argument against that position?

 

[Zona]

Found this on another site
Here are 14 reasons illegal aliens should vacate America,

1. $14 billion to $22 billion dollars are spent each year on welfare to illegal aliens.(that' s Billion with a 'B') FAIR: Immigration and Welfare

2. $2.2 billion dollars are spent each year on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens. Center for Immigration Studies

3. $7.5 billion dollars are spent each year on Medicaid for illegal aliens. Center for Immigration Studies

4. $12 billion dollars are spent each year on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally and they still cannot speak a word of English! CNN.com - Transcripts

5. $27 billion dollars are spent each year for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies. CNN.com - Transcripts

6. $3 Million Dollars 'PER DAY' is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens. That's $1.2 Billion a year. CNN.com - Transcripts

7. 28% percent of all federal prison inmates are illegal aliens.
CNN.com - Transcripts

8. $190 billion dollars are spent each year on illegal aliens for welfare & social services by the American taxpayers. - http://transcripts. cnn.com/TRANSCRI PTS/0610/ 29/ldt.01. html

9. $200 billion dollars per year in suppressed American wages are caused by the illegal aliens.
CNN.com - Transcripts

10. The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's two and a half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular, their children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the US. http://transcripts. cnn.com/TRANSCRI PTS/0606/ 12/ldt.01. html

11. During the year 2005, there were 8 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that crossed our southern border with as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from other terrorist countries. Over 10,000 of those were middle-eastern terrorists. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroine, crack, Guns, and marijuana crossed into the U.S.from the southern border. http://tinyurl.com/t9sht

12. The National Policy Institute, estimates that the total cost of mass deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion, or an average cost of between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute./.org/publications.php?b= deportation

13. In 2006, illegal aliens sent home $65 BILLION in remittances back to their countries of origin, to their families and friends. Wooldridge - How Much Further Into This Nightmare?

14. The dark side of illegal immigration: Nearly one million sex crimes are committed by illegal immigrants in the United States! Deborah Schurman-Kauflin, Ph.D. - Criminal Profiler : Crime & Terrorism investigation resources




Read more: GOPUSA » Fresh Ink » Mr. President, American citizens are under attack. DO SOMETHING.
Kind of interesting don't you think?
In your opinion what is the benifit of having these people here?

That all pales in comparison to the "liberation" of Iraq. Want those daily numbers? DAILY NUMBERS....

 

[Meister]

Found this on another site
Here are 14 reasons illegal aliens should vacate America,

1. $14 billion to $22 billion dollars are spent each year on welfare to illegal aliens.(that' s Billion with a 'B') FAIR: Immigration and Welfare

2. $2.2 billion dollars are spent each year on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens. Center for Immigration Studies

3. $7.5 billion dollars are spent each year on Medicaid for illegal aliens. Center for Immigration Studies

4. $12 billion dollars are spent each year on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally and they still cannot speak a word of English! CNN.com - Transcripts

5. $27 billion dollars are spent each year for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies. CNN.com - Transcripts

6. $3 Million Dollars 'PER DAY' is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens. That's $1.2 Billion a year. CNN.com - Transcripts

7. 28% percent of all federal prison inmates are illegal aliens.
CNN.com - Transcripts

8. $190 billion dollars are spent each year on illegal aliens for welfare & social services by the American taxpayers. - http://transcripts. cnn.com/TRANSCRI PTS/0610/ 29/ldt.01. html

9. $200 billion dollars per year in suppressed American wages are caused by the illegal aliens.
CNN.com - Transcripts

10. The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's two and a half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular, their children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the US. http://transcripts. cnn.com/TRANSCRI PTS/0606/ 12/ldt.01. html

11. During the year 2005, there were 8 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that crossed our southern border with as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from other terrorist countries. Over 10,000 of those were middle-eastern terrorists. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroine, crack, Guns, and marijuana crossed into the U.S.from the southern border. http://tinyurl.com/t9sht

12. The National Policy Institute, estimates that the total cost of mass deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion, or an average cost of between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute./.org/publications.php?b= deportation

13. In 2006, illegal aliens sent home $65 BILLION in remittances back to their countries of origin, to their families and friends. Wooldridge - How Much Further Into This Nightmare?

14. The dark side of illegal immigration: Nearly one million sex crimes are committed by illegal immigrants in the United States! Deborah Schurman-Kauflin, Ph.D. - Criminal Profiler : Crime & Terrorism investigation resources




Read more: GOPUSA » Fresh Ink » Mr. President, American citizens are under attack. DO SOMETHING.
Kind of interesting don't you think?
In your opinion what is the benifit of having these people here?

That all pales in comparison to the "liberation" of Iraq. Want those daily numbers? DAILY NUMBERS....

That's all you have for the "US sues Az" thread?

 

[Zona]

Found this on another site
Here are 14 reasons illegal aliens should vacate America,

1. $14 billion to $22 billion dollars are spent each year on welfare to illegal aliens.(that' s Billion with a 'B') FAIR: Immigration and Welfare

2. $2.2 billion dollars are spent each year on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens. Center for Immigration Studies

3. $7.5 billion dollars are spent each year on Medicaid for illegal aliens. Center for Immigration Studies

4. $12 billion dollars are spent each year on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally and they still cannot speak a word of English! CNN.com - Transcripts

5. $27 billion dollars are spent each year for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies. CNN.com - Transcripts

6. $3 Million Dollars 'PER DAY' is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens. That's $1.2 Billion a year. CNN.com - Transcripts

7. 28% percent of all federal prison inmates are illegal aliens.
CNN.com - Transcripts

8. $190 billion dollars are spent each year on illegal aliens for welfare & social services by the American taxpayers. - http://transcripts. cnn.com/TRANSCRI PTS/0610/ 29/ldt.01. html

9. $200 billion dollars per year in suppressed American wages are caused by the illegal aliens.
CNN.com - Transcripts

10. The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's two and a half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular, their children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the US. http://transcripts. cnn.com/TRANSCRI PTS/0606/ 12/ldt.01. html

11. During the year 2005, there were 8 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that crossed our southern border with as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from other terrorist countries. Over 10,000 of those were middle-eastern terrorists. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroine, crack, Guns, and marijuana crossed into the U.S.from the southern border. http://tinyurl.com/t9sht

12. The National Policy Institute, estimates that the total cost of mass deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion, or an average cost of between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute./.org/publications.php?b= deportation

13. In 2006, illegal aliens sent home $65 BILLION in remittances back to their countries of origin, to their families and friends. Wooldridge - How Much Further Into This Nightmare?

14. The dark side of illegal immigration: Nearly one million sex crimes are committed by illegal immigrants in the United States! Deborah Schurman-Kauflin, Ph.D. - Criminal Profiler : Crime & Terrorism investigation resources




Read more: GOPUSA » Fresh Ink » Mr. President, American citizens are under attack. DO SOMETHING.
Kind of interesting don't you think?
In your opinion what is the benifit of having these people here?

That all pales in comparison to the "liberation" of Iraq. Want those daily numbers? DAILY NUMBERS....

That's all you have for the "US sues Az" thread?

So thats a no to you actaully requesting the numbers we are spending on a war started on a lie?

Do you have any idea how much money we are spending there? My point is, where were you when the OTHER administration was spending all that money..hell where were you when the OTHER administration had anytihng to do with money being spent on illegals. Its not like the illegal situation all of a sudden started happening in the last year and a half..

 

[maineman]

Found this on another site
Here are 14 reasons illegal aliens should vacate America,

1. $14 billion to $22 billion dollars are spent each year on welfare to illegal aliens.(that' s Billion with a 'B') FAIR: Immigration and Welfare

2. $2.2 billion dollars are spent each year on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens. Center for Immigration Studies

3. $7.5 billion dollars are spent each year on Medicaid for illegal aliens. Center for Immigration Studies

4. $12 billion dollars are spent each year on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally and they still cannot speak a word of English! CNN.com - Transcripts

5. $27 billion dollars are spent each year for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies. CNN.com - Transcripts

6. $3 Million Dollars 'PER DAY' is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens. That's $1.2 Billion a year. CNN.com - Transcripts

7. 28% percent of all federal prison inmates are illegal aliens.
CNN.com - Transcripts

8. $190 billion dollars are spent each year on illegal aliens for welfare & social services by the American taxpayers. - http://transcripts. cnn.com/TRANSCRI PTS/0610/ 29/ldt.01. html

9. $200 billion dollars per year in suppressed American wages are caused by the illegal aliens.
CNN.com - Transcripts

10. The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's two and a half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular, their children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the US. http://transcripts. cnn.com/TRANSCRI PTS/0606/ 12/ldt.01. html

11. During the year 2005, there were 8 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that crossed our southern border with as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from other terrorist countries. Over 10,000 of those were middle-eastern terrorists. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroine, crack, Guns, and marijuana crossed into the U.S.from the southern border. http://tinyurl.com/t9sht

12. The National Policy Institute, estimates that the total cost of mass deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion, or an average cost of between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute./.org/publications.php?b= deportation

13. In 2006, illegal aliens sent home $65 BILLION in remittances back to their countries of origin, to their families and friends. Wooldridge - How Much Further Into This Nightmare?

14. The dark side of illegal immigration: Nearly one million sex crimes are committed by illegal immigrants in the United States! Deborah Schurman-Kauflin, Ph.D. - Criminal Profiler : Crime & Terrorism investigation resources




Read more: GOPUSA » Fresh Ink » Mr. President, American citizens are under attack. DO SOMETHING.
Kind of interesting don't you think?
In your opinion what is the benifit of having these people here?

That all pales in comparison to the "liberation" of Iraq. Want those daily numbers? DAILY NUMBERS....

That's all you have for the "US sues Az" thread?

whether you agree or not, it certainly highlights the hypocrisy of the right's outrage over the "expense" of illegal immigration.

 

[ConHog]

That all pales in comparison to the "liberation" of Iraq. Want those daily numbers? DAILY NUMBERS....

That's all you have for the "US sues Az" thread?

whether you agree or not, it certainly highlights the hypocrisy of the right's outrage over the "expense" of illegal immigration.

Really? I'm outraged over the cost both. Why do you only care about "the money Bush spent?"