US governments banning use of "Jesus" in prayers!!!! In the USA??!!

[jillian]

No.... My beliefs are not negotiable. But they aren't to be demanded of everyone else. Like it or not... THIS IS AMERICA! But I know... the only time the Constitution means anything to you guys is when you are trying to cover billionaires backs and letting the rest of the country rot.

Does the Constitution allow a pastor at a soldier's funeral to say "Jesus"?

Remember, if we can't practice some religion, then we cant show favortism by allowing others.

If saying "Jesus" is banned, then so is the mandatory Islamic dress that is required of Muslim women, and thus, that clothing must be banned.

Stop being a fucking faggot you moron.

Oh... so now I'm a faggot? Wow... must've gotten your dander up.

AS to your question... It depends on the religion of the dead soldier, doesn't it?

for some reason when wingnuts get bested, they do that kind of thing.

it's because they have nothing else to say. and rightwingnuts are a pretty classless bunch anyway.

 

[hortysir]

<snip>whining because you can't impose your religion on others...<snip>

How is saying 'Jesus' or 'God bless you' "imposing" one's religion on another?

And, more to the point, even if I were to "impose my religion on others" how is that against the law?
And, yes, regardless if I'm on government property or no.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Had to get a refill on my popcorn damnit. Still waiting. In case you forgot the question let me remind you....

The next time Obama says the words god, god bless, Jesus, or any other word deemed religious what will his consequences be?

Impeachment
Fine
Jail
Fired
Censured
Generally mocked by all you liberals


Please don't take to long as I'm on my last bag of popcorn...

 

[jillian]

<snip>whining because you can't impose your religion on others...<snip>

How is saying 'Jesus' or 'God bless you' "imposing" one's religion on another?

And, more to the point, even if I were to "impose my religion on others" how is that against the law?
And, yes, regardless if I'm on government property or no.

if you look at the article, it says the pastor in question prayed to jesus christ at a memorial day invocation. it was not a private event. it was not limited to christians. and certainly, on memorial day we honor all troops, regardless of their religion or lack thereof. there is a difference between generalized references to g-d or a deity and a prayer talking about jesus.

i probably wouldn't have made a fuss about it had one of my loved ones been honored, but i wouldn't have liked it either and probably would have said just what i said previously... that others besides christians served this country.

i think that's the point. i don't know enough to have formulated a solid opinion on this, but it's clear it isn't what the ranting o/p claims.

 

[Steelplate]

Had to get a refill on my popcorn damnit. Still waiting. In case you forgot the question let me remind you....

The next time Obama says the words god, god bless, Jesus, or any other word deemed religious what will his consequences be?

Impeachment
Fine
Jail
Fired
Censured
Generally mocked by all you liberals


Please don't take to long as I'm on my last bag of popcorn...

First, Show me where this is actual legislated policy.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Had to get a refill on my popcorn damnit. Still waiting. In case you forgot the question let me remind you....

The next time Obama says the words god, god bless, Jesus, or any other word deemed religious what will his consequences be?

Impeachment
Fine
Jail
Fired
Censured
Generally mocked by all you liberals


Please don't take to long as I'm on my last bag of popcorn...

First, Show me where this is actual legislated policy.

If its good policy for one group of federal employees it should be good for all no? Equal protection under the law and all that silly jazz. So again ill wait for your response...

 

[uscitizen]

Houston Veterans Claim Censorship of Prayers, Including Ban on 'God' and 'Jesus' - FoxNews.com
Virginia governor endorses ban on 'Jesus' prayer

The first link is the Houston VA banning the use of "Jesus" or "God Bless You" on premises by pastors or by the volunteers who go to funerals of servicemen.

The second is the Virginia government banning the use of "Jesus" by the VA State Troopers chaplains, after which 6 trooper chaplains immediately resigned. In that same law, chaplains are also forbidden from using negative language towards "liberals" "homosexuals" or "atheists". So the law basically says "You can't mention Jesus, or talk badly about liberals, homos or atheists." WTF????

Freedom of speech is being fucking revoked. So whats gonna happen? If an Army chaplain says "Jesus" at a VA cemetery, is he gonna be arrested? If a VA State Trooper chaplain says "Jesus" in prayer, will he be fired and charged?

We are inching towards Communist Fucking Russia you morons.

Umm that second link is from 2008.

 

[Steelplate]

Had to get a refill on my popcorn damnit. Still waiting. In case you forgot the question let me remind you....

The next time Obama says the words god, god bless, Jesus, or any other word deemed religious what will his consequences be?

Impeachment
Fine
Jail
Fired
Censured
Generally mocked by all you liberals


Please don't take to long as I'm on my last bag of popcorn...

First, Show me where this is actual legislated policy.

If its good policy for one group of federal employees it should be good for all no? Equal protection under the law and all that silly jazz. So again ill wait for your response...

WHo said it's policy? That's my point. A governor can say that all people of Mexican descent will be pulled over and their ID's checked to make sure they are Citizens or have a valid green card. But that doesn't make it legislated policy, does it?

 

[Richard-H]

Houston Veterans Claim Censorship of Prayers, Including Ban on 'God' and 'Jesus' - FoxNews.com
Virginia governor endorses ban on 'Jesus' prayer

The first link is the Houston VA banning the use of "Jesus" or "God Bless You" on premises by pastors or by the volunteers who go to funerals of servicemen.

The second is the Virginia government banning the use of "Jesus" by the VA State Troopers chaplains, after which 6 trooper chaplains immediately resigned. In that same law, chaplains are also forbidden from using negative language towards "liberals" "homosexuals" or "atheists". So the law basically says "You can't mention Jesus, or talk badly about liberals, homos or atheists." WTF????

Freedom of speech is being fucking revoked. So whats gonna happen? If an Army chaplain says "Jesus" at a VA cemetery, is he gonna be arrested? If a VA State Trooper chaplain says "Jesus" in prayer, will he be fired and charged?

We are inching towards Communist Fucking Russia you morons.

FYI -

The people of the Soviet Union were allowed to practice their religion freely. The only restriction was that religious people were not welcome in the communist party, which meant that effectively, they were not allowed to hold a governement position.

My wife grew up in a religious family and practiced her religion freely. She also knew many Roman Catholics who also worshipped freely.

Of course, religious people were not allowed to break the civils laws. The BUNK that you've been lead to believe is because whenever religious people were arrested for anything like theivery or murder or extortion, they first thing they'd all do is declare that they were being persecuted because of their religion.

Of course since you never lived in the Soviet Union, you really wouldn't know that would you?

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

First, Show me where this is actual legislated policy.

If its good policy for one group of federal employees it should be good for all no? Equal protection under the law and all that silly jazz. So again ill wait for your response...

WHo said it's policy? That's my point. A governor can say that all people of Mexican descent will be pulled over and their ID's checked to make sure they are Citizens or have a valid green card. But that doesn't make it legislated policy, does it?

Stop mincing words. You defended this idea all through this thread. Then when I point out the impractical nature of it you suddenly wanna argue the very point you've been advocating all along. Is it possible that an argument made by someone in this thread has altered your opinion and you just don't want to admit it?

If the preacher in question did something he shouldn't have wouldn't it make more sense to deal with him individually than to have a knee jerk reaction that has nation wide implications?

Enforcible law or not the sheer lunacy of its implications should make one stop to think. And my analogy is a perfect what if.

 

[jillian]

Houston Veterans Claim Censorship of Prayers, Including Ban on 'God' and 'Jesus' - FoxNews.com
Virginia governor endorses ban on 'Jesus' prayer

The first link is the Houston VA banning the use of "Jesus" or "God Bless You" on premises by pastors or by the volunteers who go to funerals of servicemen.

The second is the Virginia government banning the use of "Jesus" by the VA State Troopers chaplains, after which 6 trooper chaplains immediately resigned. In that same law, chaplains are also forbidden from using negative language towards "liberals" "homosexuals" or "atheists". So the law basically says "You can't mention Jesus, or talk badly about liberals, homos or atheists." WTF????

Freedom of speech is being fucking revoked. So whats gonna happen? If an Army chaplain says "Jesus" at a VA cemetery, is he gonna be arrested? If a VA State Trooper chaplain says "Jesus" in prayer, will he be fired and charged?

We are inching towards Communist Fucking Russia you morons.

FYI -

The people of the Soviet Union were allowed to practice their religion freely. The only restriction was that religious people were not welcome in the communist party, which meant that effectively, they were not allowed to hold a governement position.

My wife grew up in a religious family and practiced her religion freely. She also knew many Roman Catholics who also worshipped freely.

Of course, religious people were not allowed to break the civils laws. The BUNK that you've been lead to believe is because whenever religious people were arrested for anything like theivery or murder or extortion, they first thing they'd all do is declare that they were being persecuted because of their religion.

Of course since you never lived in the Soviet Union, you really wouldn't know that would you?

i don't know about all that.

but jews wren't allowed to practice their religion freely in the soviet union.

 

[uscitizen]

And again that second link about the gov of VA is from 2008.

 

[hortysir]

Had to get a refill on my popcorn damnit. Still waiting. In case you forgot the question let me remind you....

The next time Obama says the words god, god bless, Jesus, or any other word deemed religious what will his consequences be?

Impeachment
Fine
Jail
Fired
Censured
Generally mocked by all you liberals


Please don't take to long as I'm on my last bag of popcorn...

First, Show me where this is actual legislated policy.

That's what I'm trying to figure out.
How is it enforceable or punishable???

 

[uscitizen]

And is the Virginia ban still in effect? That was in 2008 I think they have a right wing guv now.

 

[arKangel]

As anti-faith forces seek to supress celebrations of religious liberty...
Perhaps peoples of faith should learn from each other?

Lighting Up in Public? No Question When it Comes to the Menorah - News Stories - Chabad-Lubavitch News

It’s become almost commonplace for hundreds of thousands of people to attend grand public Chanukah menorah lightings in metropolises and in front of statehouses dotting the American landscape...
All over the United States, Chabad Houses sought out public spaces for the celebrations. But a handful of local lawsuits argued that the presence of a menorah on public property violated First Amendment guarantees on the separation of church and state.

The following year, the American Jewish Congress joined the debate, offering legal assistance to those challenging the celebrations. In 1989, countersuits had been filed in Des Moines, Iowa; Burlington, Vt.; Pittsburgh, Pa.; Los Angeles and Chicago. Later cases included those in Grand Rapids, Mich., White Plains, N.Y., Atlanta, Ga., Jersey City, N.J., and Indianapolis, Ind. Ultimately, the record reflected a mixture of wins and losses.

The battle-lines were drawn for the Supreme Court to weigh in.

In an extensive conversation from his Washington office, constitutional attorney Nathan Lewin, who argued the 1989 Pittsburgh case and appeal to the nation’s highest court, said that the case was emblematic for all future cases that challenged public menorahs as violations of the First Amendment’s establishment clause, which forbids government-establishment of religion.

He stressed that the existing case law contains many nuances, and that the definition of a permitted public space often hinges on whether or not the space is traditionally and regularly used for public expression.

Lewin argued before the Supreme Court that in Pittsburgh, the establishment clause didn’t apply because the menorah, as part of a display including another popular symbol of the holiday and a sign that celebrated liberty, didn’t represent a government endorsement of one religion over another. He won

There are quite clearly legal precedents for religious expression on public grounds.

 

[Charles_Main]

Houston Veterans Claim Censorship of Prayers, Including Ban on 'God' and 'Jesus' - FoxNews.com
Virginia governor endorses ban on 'Jesus' prayer

The first link is the Houston VA banning the use of "Jesus" or "God Bless You" on premises by pastors or by the volunteers who go to funerals of servicemen.

The second is the Virginia government banning the use of "Jesus" by the VA State Troopers chaplains, after which 6 trooper chaplains immediately resigned. In that same law, chaplains are also forbidden from using negative language towards "liberals" "homosexuals" or "atheists". So the law basically says "You can't mention Jesus, or talk badly about liberals, homos or atheists." WTF????

Freedom of speech is being fucking revoked. So whats gonna happen? If an Army chaplain says "Jesus" at a VA cemetery, is he gonna be arrested? If a VA State Trooper chaplain says "Jesus" in prayer, will he be fired and charged?

We are inching towards Communist Fucking Russia you morons.

Where does it say the US government is doing this? I see a State Doing it.

 

[hortysir]

We'll wait for you to catch up

 

[Spoonman]

Houston Veterans Claim Censorship of Prayers, Including Ban on 'God' and 'Jesus' - FoxNews.com
Virginia governor endorses ban on 'Jesus' prayer

The first link is the Houston VA banning the use of "Jesus" or "God Bless You" on premises by pastors or by the volunteers who go to funerals of servicemen.

The second is the Virginia government banning the use of "Jesus" by the VA State Troopers chaplains, after which 6 trooper chaplains immediately resigned. In that same law, chaplains are also forbidden from using negative language towards "liberals" "homosexuals" or "atheists". So the law basically says "You can't mention Jesus, or talk badly about liberals, homos or atheists." WTF????

Freedom of speech is being fucking revoked. So whats gonna happen? If an Army chaplain says "Jesus" at a VA cemetery, is he gonna be arrested? If a VA State Trooper chaplain says "Jesus" in prayer, will he be fired and charged?

We are inching towards Communist Fucking Russia you morons.

separation of church and state my ass

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

US governments banning use of "Jesus" in prayers!!!! In the USA??!!

What a load of hysterical, ignorant nonsense.

The US government hasn’t ‘banned’ anything.

The VA is currently enjoined from restricting prayers while the policy is under review, those involved should wait to hear from the VA on July 15th. It’s possible they won’t even respond at all and drop the matter.

I don’t see an Establishment Clause issue here because the veterans aren’t government employees and the prayers don’t constitute an official government policy.

As for the Virginia case:

WND previously reported when the appellate panel heard arguments, O'Connor stated the case was black and white in favor of the city.

"It is government speech, and the rule seems perfectly reasonable," she opined.

The ban on "in Jesus name" came in 2005 after Turner already had delivered about 100 prayers, many including those words, over four years.

Whitehead said then the case might be forwarded to the U.S. Supreme Court.

"Because he wants to pray to a particular God, he's not being treated equally," he told WND.

No, he’s allowed to pray to any god he want as a private citizen, in an official capacity, however, he’s required to follow the policy accordingly.

 

[arKangel]

REPOST:
There are quite clearly legal precedents for religious expression on public grounds.

Do the anti-faith crowd object to public displays of a Menorah, which is clearly a religious symbol?