UN Resolutions that Israel has defied/ ignored

[Truthmatters]

Honesty Kathy.

Its what friends do.

Fairness and honesty even when you dont agree.

 

[Godboy]

I just think it sucks that every time the liberals and Hamas make up lies, its up to us to have to dig up the evidence to disprove them. I wonder how many stories have been established as so called facts, that were totally fabricated to begin with. Often times its not so easy to find proof of these lies.

 

[Xenophon]

Xenophon, I don't understand why you can't respond to anything I bring up. I mean, I don't know if you know a lot about the UN or not. But the fact is that you refuse to say anything (Except "UN-bad"), so I have no reason to believe you know much about it at all, or how it works. Not because you disagree with what I say, but the fact that you can't bring up any arguments of your own. I've asked you direct questions that you simply choose to ignore. Is it because you have no answers?

EDIT: You know, maybe I was a bit too hostile on my first post, so I'm sorry for that. But really, let's hear your case.

The UN is dysfunctional by design, the original idea was bad in that it was based on a four power dictat of world affairs where the rest would be forced to go along as might makes right, which is where the 'Security council' comes from.

Becuase there is no accountability of behavior you get ludicrous and comic opera 'resolutions' out of the general assemble that are in an embarrissment to anyone who might actually want to make the world a better place.

A good example is Libya accusing some other states of human rights violations, this from a state that invaded chad and allows no freedom within it's borders, yet it's 'moral weight' in the general assemby is the same as any other country, as it's history and nature are not taken into account.

Turning to the Israel matter, the british didn't want to deal with the partition problem they themselves created when they mandated the area after the first world war. They decided instead to dump the problem on the new organization as a test case and in the end it was disaster as only armed might could enforce unpopular UN decisions, so as a place for people meeting it became as useless as the league of Nations it replaced.

UN or no UN, the Jews were going to attempt to form a country after WWII and throwing the UN into the mix has made the entire process a mess, a mess aided unfortunetly by the bi-polar world of the cold war when the Soviets decided to start arming arabs in the late 60s and the US responded by arming israel.

Before this happened neither side could really wipe the other out, but as the super powers supplied more and more there potential for destruction increased. For the pals the disaster that befell them was the fall of Communism as it shut off the flow of free Russian arms. The Muslim states as a rule pay lip service to 'the plight of the palestinains' as a way of keeping for their own populations a ready made bad guy, Jews, so they won't look or protest to much about their own rotten governments and lack of freedom.

Haven't you ever wondered why 'refugeee camps' STILL exist for a war that ended 61 years ago? Those people were never allowed to assimulate into new lives, they are used as pawns to keep the frenzy rolling and give a ready made face to victimization.

The UN feeds all this, as does the flow of silly arab orginated UN 'resolutions' vs israel which as a basic design to keep the pressue up on the muslim world's favorite fall guy, Jews.


I don't believe Israel is perfect or blameless, they make a lot of their own problems by buliding settlements in areas whose ownership is disputed. But on the other hand, they are far from racist or 'aparthied' as some fools claim, as many Muslim arabs live in israel, many of them decendent from the Muslims who didn't leave, and they have full rights and protections. the Jews themselves are often the most harsh critics of their own state.

To sum up, asking the UN, an organization that always looks for 'truces' and 'ceasefires' and never for solutions to solve this is a waste of time, as is trying to use ANYTHING the UN says or does as a positive leagal or moral postion.

 

[William Joyce]

The foreign aid Israel receives from us is in the form of credits to purchase military hardware from US companies and the jobs that are created by these purchases generate wages, salaries and taxes that nearly equal the face value of the credits so that the net effect is a transfer of wealth from the federal government to states and regions that host these companies and very little ever leaves the US.

The US gains two important benefits from this support of Israel. First, we gain great leverage with Israel and Egypt, the two most powerful countries in the ME, because of this aid and this is why there has been no major conflict between Israel and the Arab states for the last 35 years and taken along with the leverage the US has in Jordan because of our contribution to the Israel-Jordan peace treaty and the leverage we have in Saudi Arabia by being their principal arms supplier, the US now has a strong sphere of influence running from North Africa all the way to the Persian Gulf which separates Arab North Africa from the Arab ME and which froze the USSR out of influence in the ME and now serves the same function with respect to Russia. The peace treaty between Israel and Egypt is the keystone which supports the US's entire ME strategy.

But there is another very important benefit the US gains from our support of Israel. Israel is the world's fourth or fifth largest exporter of weapons and weapons systems, producing nearly everything from hand guns to very sophisticated radar and missile systems and is fully capable of manufacturing everything the US supplies it with if it had to. Through its support of Israel, the US has gained a veto over Israeli arms sales that prevents some very sophisticated weapons and weapons systems from being purchased by countries that the US or our allies may have to face in combat.

Considering what a small percentage of our population is Jewish, Jews are disproportionately represented at the highest levels of accomplishments in virtually all fields of endeavor in the US, arts, sciences and humanities, medicine and law and other professions, business and finance, so naturally some of these talented and accomplished people will rise to high levels in politics and government, but as you point out, the highest levels are occupied by non Jews, so it is a bizarre statement to claim that Jews in secondary positions in government have been able, as you claim through all administrations, to dictate to their bosses what US policy should be.

While AIPAC is a strong supporter of a strong US-Israel relationship, simply stating that it exists does not explain US policy since all the Arab states hire US lobbyists, PR firms and lawyers to represent their interests to the US government and to US politicians as well as to try to burnish their image to the US public, and taken together, they spend far more than AIPAC spends. The bias in favor of Israel that most American citizens and most American politicians feel stems from the fact that when US citizens and US politicians look at Israel, the vast majority see a modern democracy that has created a vibrant economy and an effective and efficient government and which shares virtually all of our values, but when they look at Arab states, they see repressive dictatorships that have failed to politically and economically to provide for their citizens and which seem to share few of our values and to be of an alien temperament.

And especially at this time, American citizens and politicians are struck by the similarities between the war we are fighting against Islamic terrorism and the war the Israelis are fighting against Islamic terrorism. Americans see Israeli civilians attacked by Islamic suicide bombers just as American civilians were attacked by Islamic suicide bombers, and they hear very similar justifications for these attacks from both Hamas and al Qaeda, and they understand that while these two political entities may not be the same, they are products of the same culture. They see Israel using the same methods against the terrorists who attack their civilians and their soldiers as the US is using against the terrorists who have attacked our civilians and our soldiers here in the US and in Iraq and Afghanistan. And seeing all of this, it is impossible for most Americans not to believe that the US and Israel are fighting the same war against Islamic terrorism even if at present we are doing battle against different political entities.

Bin Laden originally claimed he attacked the US because of our military presence in Saudi Arabia, his holy land, and it was only after that explanation failed to garner him much support among Arabs that he added a broadside of other reasons ranging from Crusaders corrupting Islam and stealing Arab oil to the old tried and true formula that Arab leaders who provide nothing but pain for their followers have used, claiming he was protecting Islam from Israel.

Thank you, AIPAC.

Four words: Cut Off Israel. Now.

 

[strollingbones]

As Israeli troops encircle Gaza City, their commanders are faced with a painful dilemma: How far must they advance into the deadly labyrinth of slums and refugee camps where Hamas militants await with booby-trapped houses and snipers? With each passing day, Israel's war against Hamas grows riskier and more punishing, with the gains appearing to diminish compared to the spiraling costs — to Israel's moral stature, to the lives of Palestinian civilians and to the world's hopes that an ancient conflict can ever be resolved. Ideally, in a war shaped by television images, Israelis would like a tableau of surrender: grimy Hamas commanders crawling from underground bunkers with their hands up. Instead, the deaths of at least 40 civilians taking shelter at a United Nations–run school north of Gaza City are more likely to become the dominant image of the war. Israeli politicians and generals know that the total elimination of Hamas' entrenched military command could take weeks; it might be altogether impossible. The more realistic outcome is an unsatisfactory, brokered truce that leaves Hamas wounded but alive and able to regenerate — and Israel only temporarily safe from attack'

full 3 page article:

Can Israel Survive Its Assault on Gaza? - TIME

 

[Agnapostate]

As militarily powerful as Israel is, they will face problems if the Hezbollah militants or whoever's been firing from southern Lebanon becomes involved, obviously. A two-front war isn't an easy task for any army.

 

[FistyTheBadger]

Yes.

 

[Agnapostate]

I do have to note that Israel will be the victor in this affair, as they always are. When a country is supplied with unregulated and unconditional aid by the most militarily powerful nation in the world, they tend to be quite formidable.

 

[Diuretic]

I must admit this is my first foray into the various threads on this topic. But I thought this one was interesting.

I suggest the answer is, yes, Israel can. I say that because I believe the Israelis have made a calculation on this.

Are we paying attention?

 

[strollingbones]

I must admit this is my first foray into the various threads on this topic. But I thought this one was interesting.

I suggest the answer is, yes, Israel can. I say that because I believe the Israelis have made a calculation on this.

Are we paying attention?[/QUOTE]


yes, i am

 

[Agnapostate]

If you were, you'd have marked your BB code correctly.

 

[toomuchtime_]

As Israeli troops encircle Gaza City, their commanders are faced with a painful dilemma: How far must they advance into the deadly labyrinth of slums and refugee camps where Hamas militants await with booby-trapped houses and snipers? With each passing day, Israel's war against Hamas grows riskier and more punishing, with the gains appearing to diminish compared to the spiraling costs — to Israel's moral stature, to the lives of Palestinian civilians and to the world's hopes that an ancient conflict can ever be resolved. Ideally, in a war shaped by television images, Israelis would like a tableau of surrender: grimy Hamas commanders crawling from underground bunkers with their hands up. Instead, the deaths of at least 40 civilians taking shelter at a United Nations–run school north of Gaza City are more likely to become the dominant image of the war. Israeli politicians and generals know that the total elimination of Hamas' entrenched military command could take weeks; it might be altogether impossible. The more realistic outcome is an unsatisfactory, brokered truce that leaves Hamas wounded but alive and able to regenerate — and Israel only temporarily safe from attack'

full 3 page article:

Can Israel Survive Its Assault on Gaza? - TIME

In the case of Israel, if the pen were truly mightier than the sword, Israel would have been scribbled to death decades ago by a hostile and biased press that believes it can sell more advertising by publishing stories and pictures of injuried Palestinians than by publishing stories and pictures of the IDF fighting Islamic terrorists to protect Israeli civilians.

We all know that Hamas deinjuredliberately planned its battles against Israel in ways that would maximize Palestinians civilian casualties, because Hamas' greatest weapons against Israel are dead Palestinian civilians, a press that believes if it bleeds it leads and an historically anti Israel bias at the UN, not its fighters.
Not only do Hamas and the writers at Time understand this, but so does the IDF which calculates the effect of an anti Israel press and a hostile UN into every battle plan just as it does the strength of the enemy fighters it faces. In Operation Defensive Shield in 2002, when Israel reoccupied the West Bank after Oslo collapsed, Sharon demonstrated that Israel need not concern itself with a hostile press or UN as long as its leaders are of the strength and caliber of Sharon himself, admittedly a tall order, and Israel's support in the US, especially in the US Congress, remains strong. The main concern now is not what the press or the screaming heads at the UN say, but whether Israel's current leaders can provide the level of leadership that is necessary.

 

[RoadVirus]

Israel seems to be doing fine so far. Just as long as they don't touch Lebanon again, they'll be fine

 

[Truthmatters]

I must admit this is my first foray into the various threads on this topic. But I thought this one was interesting.

I suggest the answer is, yes, Israel can. I say that because I believe the Israelis have made a calculation on this.

Are we paying attention?

Israel will and should survive this.

They do need to get an entire new government though.

Their current crop of leadship are insane if they think this will make them safer.

 

[strollingbones]

If you were, you'd have marked your BB code correctly.

yea i dont have the quote thing down pat...and i have a head cold..so you can fuck off and die... lol

 

[Munin]

Israel seems to be doing fine so far. Just as long as they don't touch Lebanon again, they'll be fine

Lebanon wasn't the problem, guerilla warfare was the problem: it costs too much casualties from the Israeli side.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Lebanon wasn't the problem, guerilla warfare was the problem: it costs too much casualties from the Israeli side.

Israel's problem in Lebanon was weak leadership. When Sharon went into Lebanon it was with 60,000 troops against a weaker enemy than Olmert faced in 2006 when he sent in only 10,000 troops.

 

[jillian]

Lebanon wasn't the problem, guerilla warfare was the problem: it costs too much casualties from the Israeli side.

not correct... lebanon was a problem b/c the US made them stop before they took out Hezbollah's weaponry.

But notice, with all that, they've been pretty quiet now.

 

[toomuchtime_]

not correct... lebanon was a problem b/c the US made them stop before they took out Hezbollah's weaponry.

But notice, with all that, they've been pretty quiet now.

Yes, Nasrallah is apparently not eager for another dose of the victory he boasted about in 2006.

 

[Xenophon]

Survive?

Certainly.

Whether it's worth it is the issue.