UH OH Spaghetti Oh! Hansen says the temps have been flat!

[IanC]

Heartland didn't admit to making up the data, shit-for-brains....The UN did.

the UN is a diplomatic mission and not a collection of climate scientists. Heartland is a political organization and molds opinion on behalf its contributors.

Check ...

International Academy of Science
National Academy of Sciences
European Academy of Sciences
NOAA
Royal Academy of Science

Etc, etc.

See what folks who know shit are saying. Then heed their wisdom, since it's patently obvious you are so lacking of it.

Try to concentrate, tovarich...

THE UN ADMITTED THAT THEIR "RESEARCH", VIS-A-VIS "SECOND-HAND" CIGARETTE SMOKE, WAS FRAUDULENT.


That has NOTHING, ZIP, ZERO, BUPKIS, NADA, SKIFF, ZILCH to do with Heartland Institute.

did you see the latest smear on Heartland from down under?

Jessica Wright of the Sydney Morning Herald blatantly tries to smear The Heartland Institute with outright falsehoods:

“A sister pro-tobacco lobbying organisation and corporate member of ALEC, the Heartland Institute, paid for Senator Bernardi’s accommodation and travel to the US on four separate occasions in 2010 and 2011. The institute recently ran a two-day conference in the US entitled ”Can Tobacco Make You Healthier?”

Read more: SMHBut she apparently didn’t do much research. Heartland point out that the title was not “Can Tobacco Make You Healthier”, but “Can Tobacco Cure Smoking” and the “two day” conference was a 75 minute seminar from an expert, discussing another way to help smokers quit.

“The speaker, Prof. Brad Rodu, is one of the country’s (indeed, the world’s) leading authorities on the use of smokeless tobacco products to encourage smokers to smoke less or stop altogether. Given that message, it would be more accurate to say that Heartland sponsored a seminar on ‘how to stop smoking.’

via JoNova

 

[polarbear]

the UN is a diplomatic mission and not a collection of climate scientists. Heartland is a political organization and molds opinion on behalf its contributors.

Check ...

International Academy of Science
National Academy of Sciences
European Academy of Sciences
NOAA
Royal Academy of Science

Etc, etc.

See what folks who know shit are saying. Then heed their wisdom, since it's patently obvious you are so lacking of it.

Try to concentrate, tovarich...

THE UN ADMITTED THAT THEIR "RESEARCH", VIS-A-VIS "SECOND-HAND" CIGARETTE SMOKE, WAS FRAUDULENT.


That has NOTHING, ZIP, ZERO, BUPKIS, NADA, SKIFF, ZILCH to do with Heartland Institute.

did you see the latest smear on Heartland from down under?

Jessica Wright of the Sydney Morning Herald blatantly tries to smear The Heartland Institute with outright falsehoods:

“A sister pro-tobacco lobbying organisation and corporate member of ALEC, the Heartland Institute, paid for Senator Bernardi’s accommodation and travel to the US on four separate occasions in 2010 and 2011. The institute recently ran a two-day conference in the US entitled ”Can Tobacco Make You Healthier?”

Read more: SMHBut she apparently didn’t do much research. Heartland point out that the title was not “Can Tobacco Make You Healthier”, but “Can Tobacco Cure Smoking” and the “two day” conference was a 75 minute seminar from an expert, discussing another way to help smokers quit.

“The speaker, Prof. Brad Rodu, is one of the country’s (indeed, the world’s) leading authorities on the use of smokeless tobacco products to encourage smokers to smoke less or stop altogether. Given that message, it would be more accurate to say that Heartland sponsored a seminar on ‘how to stop smoking.’

via JoNova

Actually I wanted to comment on Your signature statement:

The more I study the history of intellectuals, the more they seem like a wrecking crew, dismantling civilization bit by bit — replacing what works with what sounds good. - Thomas Sowell

​

Not all intellectuals...so don`t loose faith.
While I was still a (chem eng.) student in Germany I was reading all these stories how a law graduate from Canada`s finest U, Mc Gill in Montreal paddled a canoe from Florida to Cuba to protest the blockade, and when he returned with is canoe, having navigated some of the most dangerous waters he was promptly deported back to Canada and was slapped with a lifetime ban entering the US...which backfired soon after because Pierre Elliot Trudeau became the most remarkable Prime Minister Canada ever had..shaping it the way it still is today. Being a student I was of course a "Liberal" as almost all academic students around the world are...and decided to leave Germany to live in a country that elects a daredevil like Pierre Trudeau as it`s leader. Hey I even got to meet him in person because my uncle was a Chem Prof @ Mc Gill in Montreal who was friends with the now late Pierre...well...as I got older and had to leave the academic world and earn a living in the real world I became more and more conservative...especially so when I realized how destructive the leftist ideology is to people who have to earn an honest living...
So I was happy when there was a huge backlash after Canada signed the Kyoto accord under a Liberal Government and flushed all that crap down the toilet. I was not so happy when Pierre`s son Justin Trudeau made it to the top of Canada`s Liberal Party and became hugely popular after he creamed a conservative Senator who had a Black Belt and challenged Justin to a boxing match...while all the claim to fame Justin had to physical activity was ballet dancing. However he creamed Senator Patrick Brazeau..
I began to worry what`s going to happen to Canada`s energy policy after the next election which Justin Trudeau is almost certain to win as overwhelmingly as that boxing match...until today when I got invited to meet Justin in person when he visited Long Plain First Nations where I live.
I did not have my camera running when he answered my question how he stands on our oil sands and resource development in general,..but his answer is tonight on every TV station in this country because our AGW green freaks thought he would be anti-oil as the Liberals were up till now..
and as every mainstream media had claimed Justin would be as anti Oil as Obama..
Anyway I found out today that everything the main stream media had claimed about Trudeau was a total lie...which just goes to show, that You can`t believe everything the media says and that there is no substitute for finding out yourself. Justin has nothing at all in common with the fictitious main stream media "Justin" they wanted to create in the public eye...and hey at Long Plain First Nations we might all vote for him in the next election after today`s visit.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8nUNVu_0Pk&feature=youtu.be"]Justin Trudeau visits Long Plain First Nations.wmv - YouTube[/ame]

He is a chip of the old block and an intellectual through and through just like his dad and I feel a whole lot better after I heard from his mouth , although only in a private conversation that he does not subscribe to the AGW farce either nor will that climate change crap determine future Liberal Party energy policy in Canada as it was and the Liberals lost by a land slide.

Fuck, I got to do something about my missing front teeth my 3 year old great grandson Amadeus knocked out when he grabbed the pipe I was smoking...
I never realized how ugly that looks till I`ve seen it tonight on every TV news station ...because I rarely look in the mirror when I wash up in the morning:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WN3xq_ZdULk&list=UUvj7dbOY14kt_MFIR1Y1iwA&index=2"]-31 C So What?.wmv - YouTube[/ame]

I look worse than the Senator Justin Trudeau knocked out in that boxing match...Thank God we have something better than "Obama care" in Canada and I can have the dentist in Portage or Winnipeg take care of that gaping hole.

 

[westwall]

Really? this is the question you cant answer on your own? its 2013, google it.

The sun produces energy, the earth and the atmosphere is warmed by it, that heat eventually escapes. The properties of the atmosphere effect how quickly this happens.

Ahhhhh, you're almost getting to the core of the problem. The planet gets its heat from the Sun, let's call it ENERGY. That ENERGY is responsible for the global temperature. Are we in agreement on that?

 

[westwall]

Try to concentrate, tovarich...

THE UN ADMITTED THAT THEIR "RESEARCH", VIS-A-VIS "SECOND-HAND" CIGARETTE SMOKE, WAS FRAUDULENT.


That has NOTHING, ZIP, ZERO, BUPKIS, NADA, SKIFF, ZILCH to do with Heartland Institute.

did you see the latest smear on Heartland from down under?

via JoNova

Actually I wanted to comment on Your signature statement:

The more I study the history of intellectuals, the more they seem like a wrecking crew, dismantling civilization bit by bit — replacing what works with what sounds good. - Thomas Sowell

​

Not all intellectuals...so don`t loose faith.
While I was still a (chem eng.) student in Germany I was reading all these stories how a law graduate from Canada`s finest U, Mc Gill in Montreal paddled a canoe from Florida to Cuba to protest the blockade, and when he returned with is canoe, having navigated some of the most dangerous waters he was promptly deported back to Canada and was slapped with a lifetime ban entering the US...which backfired soon after because Pierre Elliot Trudeau became the most remarkable Prime Minister Canada ever had..shaping it the way it still is today. Being a student I was of course a "Liberal" as almost all academic students around the world are...and decided to leave Germany to live in a country that elects a daredevil like Pierre Trudeau as it`s leader. Hey I even got to meet him in person because my uncle was a Chem Prof @ Mc Gill in Montreal who was friends with the now late Pierre...well...as I got older and had to leave the academic world and earn a living in the real world I became more and more conservative...especially so when I realized how destructive the leftist ideology is to people who have to earn an honest living...
So I was happy when there was a huge backlash after Canada signed the Kyoto accord under a Liberal Government and flushed all that crap down the toilet. I was not so happy when Pierre`s son Justin Trudeau made it to the top of Canada`s Liberal Party and became hugely popular after he creamed a conservative Senator who had a Black Belt and challenged Justin to a boxing match...while all the claim to fame Justin had to physical activity was ballet dancing. However he creamed Senator Patrick Brazeau..
I began to worry what`s going to happen to Canada`s energy policy after the next election which Justin Trudeau is almost certain to win as overwhelmingly as that boxing match...until today when I got invited to meet Justin in person when he visited Long Plain First Nations where I live.
I did not have my camera running when he answered my question how he stands on our oil sands and resource development in general,..but his answer is tonight on every TV station in this country because our AGW green freaks thought he would be anti-oil as the Liberals were up till now..
and as every mainstream media had claimed Justin would be as anti Oil as Obama..
Anyway I found out today that everything the main stream media had claimed about Trudeau was a total lie...which just goes to show, that You can`t believe everything the media says and that there is no substitute for finding out yourself. Justin has nothing at all in common with the fictitious main stream media "Justin" they wanted to create in the public eye...and hey at Long Plain First Nations we might all vote for him in the next election after today`s visit.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8nUNVu_0Pk&feature=youtu.be"]Justin Trudeau visits Long Plain First Nations.wmv - YouTube[/ame]

He is a chip of the old block and an intellectual through and through just like his dad and I feel a whole lot better after I heard from his mouth , although only in a private conversation that he does not subscribe to the AGW farce either nor will that climate change crap determine future Liberal Party energy policy in Canada as it was and the Liberals lost by a land slide.

Fuck, I got to do something about my missing front teeth my 3 year old great grandson Amadeus knocked out when he grabbed the pipe I was smoking...
I never realized how ugly that looks till I`ve seen it tonight on every TV news station ...because I rarely look in the mirror when I wash up in the morning:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WN3xq_ZdULk&list=UUvj7dbOY14kt_MFIR1Y1iwA&index=2"]-31 C So What?.wmv - YouTube[/ame]

I look worse than the Senator Justin Trudeau knocked out in that boxing match...Thank God we have something better than "Obama care" in Canada and I can have the dentist in Portage or Winnipeg take care of that gaping hole.

I love it, a eagle feather with a USB attached to it! Classy my friend, classy!

 

[mamooth]

Water vapor slows the cooling process because it actually has the capacity to absorb and retain heat radiating from the surface, unlike CO2 which radiates and emits.

I laughed out loud when I read that, being it was so crazy.

Could you tell us what fairy magic causes water vapor to be the only gas in all of creation that doesn't re-radiate heat?

Both the coastal region and the desert have the same amount of CO2 in the air but the CO2 makes no difference whatsoever, it is the water vapor.

No, it's the cold ocean next door. Go to the Arabian Sea, where the ocean is hot, and the adjacent shoreline is also roasting hot. The water vapor doesn't cool for squat. Go to the arctic, and the coastline is no colder, as the water vapor doesn't cool for squat.

What you warmists don't seem to grasp is that the atmosphere, water vapor in particular keeps us from burining to a cinder during the day and slows the cooling at night. Exactly the opposite of the claims the AGW hypothesis makes.

What you dion't seem to grasp is you're peddling fantasy physics, where water vapor is a magical fairy gas that can magically absorbs heat but doesn't re-radiate it, making it unique among all gases in creation.

Typical...confusing cause with effect. The soil in deserts isn't dry because of to much moisture in the air, the soil in deserts is dry because there isn't enough.

And yet, on a low humidity day in the non-deserts, temps still don't reach levels found in a desert at the same lat. Which thus disproves your crank theory that it's only about humidity.

Seriously, your theory is nonsense. Stop digging yourself deeper into that hole already.

 

[IanC]

mamooth- do you really not understand how the water cycle works????

in the simplest terms; liquid water loses H2O molecules when they have enough kinetic energy (heat) to break free and phase change into vapour. this lowers the average kinetic energy (temperature) of the remaining water. once in the air, the water vapour lowers the density because it is lighter than the primary constituents N2 and O2. the lower density air rises by convection, taking the original energy from the liquid water with it. air temperature has a gradient, decreasing as it gets higher. when conditions of pressure and temperature are favourable the water vapour condenses into liquid water droplets and releases the phase change energy, most of it towards space.

this is how a large portion of surface heat bypasses the bottleneck of IR radiation absorption by GHGs.

the theoretical surface temperature increases due to CO2 and water vapour are based on what would happen if you changed one parameter of the system while keeping the others unchanged. in the real world changing one parameter changes all of them. equilibriums change towards the lowest energy system possible. that is why I believe that climate sensitivity will continue to be lowered until it shows that feedbacks are negative, not positive. positive feedbacks are rare and unstable, negative feedbacks common and found everywhere in nature.

 

[polarbear]

I love it, a eagle feather with a USB attached to it! Classy my friend, classy!

Thanks...on that USB were a shitload of my pictures of the not so molten Greenland, the Nares , the Lincoln Sea, Ellesmere Island...You know these from my postings here ..Polarbears that aren`t drowning or starving etc etc..and today somebody gave me their I-pod video where Justin Trudeau answered my question about our oil- gas- and other resource development plans should he be Canada`s next PM....: (which according to the latest polls is getting more and more likely)
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3P6VR2Wud0&feature=youtu.be"]Justin Trudeau on Ethical Oil - YouTube[/ame]

Today his answer and/or quotes are headline news,...because the consensus media had it that (Liberal) Trudeau is anti- oil and deliberately refrained from asking this question.
They also got away so far with the lie that Canada`s native population is anti- oil & gas..
It took a lot of courage for Justin to say what he said in a room full of Indians on an Indian Reserve with only Indians as security detail..
Too bad Renee shut off her I-pod just a few seconds too soon because the entire room erupted with thundering applause.
After all even Indians want to drive cars without getting ripped off at the pump and "CO2 taxes".
Now the consensus media has to invent a batch of new lies...and today our oil exploration stocks are sharply up, after Justin made that statement yesterday. Canada, as far as energy policy is concerned is in a wi- win- situation no matter if Stephen Harper or the son of the legendary Pierre Elliot Trudeau wins the next election. The extreme left...the NDP is throwing fits today in Ottawa how Justin answered my question,...because they spread rumors that they might merge with the Liberals and take down our Conservatives and then shut off all Oil exploration...
My "Thank You" to Justin was to interrupt him with "that`s a lot more reasonable what Thomas Mulcair was saying"...(about oil exploration) ..and Justin immediately caught that ball and scored a game winning touch down against the left extremist NDP leader "angry Tom" Mulcair who hates everything industrial, his power base are public sector Unions in Quebec which has a huge number of Parliament seats...and only a few anti- conservatives farther West could have put this Neo-Communist pig Mulcair into our Prime Minister`s office....and with that answer + the applause Justin got in Long Plain First Nations Mulcair`s far left is all alone way off side in left field. It is spectacular, today we have headlines like "Trudeau-mania has gripped Canada" and even the (Canadian) Oil & Gas exploration stocks are up because of Trudeau`s Answer...The Manitoba Papers make me out like that "Jo the plumber" in the U.S. which was a "game decider"...and I had no idea that dumb little question I asked would have such earth shattering ramifications.
Amazing...I should have bought some of these stocks, but had no idea how brutally honest Justin would answer that question...that took a lot of courage. Justin is no ducking coward in the boxing rink,...and he has just as much courage in the political arena, not side stepping "political suicide" questions...I had a totally wrong (media fed) impression of him till he could see for myself. They all said Justin is not his dad...true, but he is a man in his own rights and has what it takes to lead a Nation.

 

[mamooth]

mamooth-do you really not understand how the water cycle works????

I understand you threw out some vague handwaving. Where are your hard numbers? You know, like the actual scientists use. Hence why they have credibility.

Here, let me show you how to use actual numbers to prove a point.

SSDD's crazy theory is that water vapor itself absorbs heat. Not that water absorbs heat when it turns to vapor, but that the water vapor, after it gets in the air, actually absorbs and holds huge amounts of energy from the sun, preventing that energy from raising temperature as much.

Let's quickly run the numbers and see how that works out.

Water vapor has a little less than twice the mass heat capacity of dry air.

Air at room temp and 60% humidity consists of about 1% water vapor by mass.

So, roughly calculating the total heat capacity of the moist air, where K is the heat capacity of dry air ...

0.99 * 1K + 0.01 * 2K = 1.01K.

That is, moist air has a heat capacity 1% higher than dry air. That's totally insignificant in terms of absorbing solar heat to prevent a temperature rise, hence SSDD's crazy theory is disproved in yet another way.

 

[polarbear]

mamooth-do you really not understand how the water cycle works????

I understand you threw out some vague handwaving. Where are your hard numbers? You know, like the actual scientists use. Hence why they have credibility.

Here, let me show you how to use actual numbers to prove a point.

SSDD's crazy theory is that water vapor itself absorbs heat. Not that water absorbs heat when it turns to vapor, but that the water vapor, after it gets in the air, actually absorbs and holds huge amounts of energy from the sun, preventing that energy from raising temperature as much.

Let's quickly run the numbers and see how that works out.

Water vapor has a little less than twice the mass heat capacity of dry air.

Air at room temp and 60% humidity consists of about 1% water vapor by mass.

So, roughly calculating the total heat capacity of the moist air, where K is the heat capacity of dry air ...

0.99 * 1K + 0.01 * 2K = 1.01K.

That is, moist air has a heat capacity 1% higher than dry air. That's totally insignificant in terms of absorbing solar heat to prevent a temperature rise, hence SSDD's crazy theory is disproved in yet another way.

Hope You don`t mind if I comment on this
Perhaps when SSDD said that water vapor absorbs heat he meant heat energy as in absorbing IR...and it does that in a significant manner and over a very wide spectral region.
If someone says CO2 absorbs "heat" few fault him, because the problem is that this English word "heat" is too ambiguous. You for example just used "heat" as in specific heat, more exactly the "heat capacity" @ 60% RH.
Yes 1% more does not sound like a whole lot, but there is more to it than meets the eye on the first glance because we are talking about the atmosphere and not a closed system. You realize of course that once the extra 1% heat capacity has been used that parcel of air is no longer at 60% RH, but has become already more hygroscopic. Now it will want to draw more water into the vapor state till the partial pressure of the water component is the same as the vapor pressure of water at that temperature...which will in turn cool the source which supplied the water..
It`s not always a ground based water source, but more often than not already airborne water mist, as in clouds or fog...I`m sure You heard the expression how the sun "burns off" the fog.
In aviation You come across that all the time. Quite often before noon it`s not just the fog but the cloud base is below 500 feet a.g.l. which are IFR conditions. Then the sun "burns" that off...meaning the water mist which was in the liquid state has gone to the vapor state,...and that consumes heat energy...and a lot of it ! Namely 2.26 kJoules per gram H2O...and since You chose 60% RH which is ~ 1% absolute we are talking about 10 times that amount per cubic meter air.
So I would not necessarily dismiss SSDD`s statement as "crazy".

 

[SSDD]

"Cohorts" would speak to a coordinated effort by a group endeavoring to deceive in support of a cause / payments, such as Oil & Gas, which is actively funding bullshit science. Thus you've just described Denialists to a fucking tee.

Maybe you missed the memo....big oil/gas is putting more money into alarmism these days because there is a ton of money to be made via tax credits, higher energy costs, etc. Big oil is financing your side these days.

 

[Saigon]

"Cohorts" would speak to a coordinated effort by a group endeavoring to deceive in support of a cause / payments, such as Oil & Gas, which is actively funding bullshit science. Thus you've just described Denialists to a fucking tee.

Maybe you missed the memo....big oil/gas is putting more money into alarmism these days because there is a ton of money to be made via tax credits, higher energy costs, etc. Big oil is financing your side these days.

Can we see a link for that?

I am aware one or two oil companies (Chevron?) have a renewables division, but I've heard little about oil funding climate research beyond the obvious denialism from some years ago.

I do think these days probably all oil companies do accept climate science, because essentially every organisation on earth does.

 

[westwall]

"Cohorts" would speak to a coordinated effort by a group endeavoring to deceive in support of a cause / payments, such as Oil & Gas, which is actively funding bullshit science. Thus you've just described Denialists to a fucking tee.

Maybe you missed the memo....big oil/gas is putting more money into alarmism these days because there is a ton of money to be made via tax credits, higher energy costs, etc. Big oil is financing your side these days.

Can we see a link for that?

I am aware one or two oil companies (Chevron?) have a renewables division, but I've heard little about oil funding climate research beyond the obvious denialism from some years ago.

I do think these days probably all oil companies do accept climate science, because essentially every organisation on earth does.

And you claim to be a journalist. What a farce....

Big Oil Making Big Investments in Renewable Energy | HeatingOil.com

Big Oil Goes Green - Newsweek and The Daily Beast

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article35434.html

These are just a FEW of the articles and business reports out there that show the BILLIONS and BILLIONS ofdollars that Big Oil is investing into the renewables markets.

Big Oil invests far more money into "green energy" than it does fighting it because as all "evil corporations" do, they get to make more money, cheaper, than if they had to do it the old fasioned way.

They're not stupid you know....

 

[Saigon]

Westwall -

I'm not sure heatingoil.com and marketoracle.com are exactly the best sources on earth, but still....!!!

It's good to see companies getting into new technologies. I'd say it's a smart move for any company with an eye on life after the internal combustion engine.

It also seems that these companies have also got up to speed on climate science, as per the statements below. That can't have been easy for them to shift from denial into reality, but it looks like they are making sound choices.

Shell Oil:

Population growth and economic development are driving energy demand. All energy sources will be needed, with fossil fuels meeting the bulk of demand. At the same time CO2 emissions must be reduced to avoid serious climate change. To manage CO2, governments and industry must work together. Government action is needed and we support an international framework that puts a price on CO2, encouraging the use of all CO2-reducing technologies. We believe the best way Shell can help secure a sustainable energy future is by focusing on four main areas: natural gas, biofuels, carbon capture and storage, and energy efficiency.

http://www.shell.com/global/environment-society/environment/climate-change.html

 

[Saigon]

Chevron on climate change:

At Chevron, we recognize and share the concerns of governments and the public about climate change. The use of fossil fuels to meet the world's energy needs is a contributor to an increase in greenhouse gases (GHGs)—mainly carbon dioxide (CO2) and methane—in the Earth's atmosphere. There is a widespread view that this increase is leading to climate change, with adverse effects on the environment.

Climate Change | Global Issues | Chevron

 

[Saigon]

BP on climate change:

Addressing the global challenge of climate change will require the efforts of governments, industry and individuals

According to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), warming of the climate system is happening and is caused mainly by the increase in greenhouse gas emissions and the increasing concentrations of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere. Results from models assessed by the IPCC suggest that to stand a reasonable chance of limiting warming to no more than 2˚C, global emissions should peak before 2020 and be cut by between 50-85% by 2050

Climate change | BP

Isn't it amazing - oil companies have swallowed the bitter pill and accepted the science on climate change - but somehow Westwall can't do the same thing.

 

[Old Rocks]

Given the changes that we see in the Arctic, I do not think that there is a reasonable chance of limiting the temperature change to 2 C. As for the petroleum corperations investing in renewables, I am sure that many in the top management realize that their business is energy, and it doesn't matter whether that energy is fossil fuels or renewables, as long as there is a profit to be made.

 

[SSDD]

It also seems that these companies have also got up to speed on climate science, as per the statements below. That can't have been easy for them to shift from denial into reality, but it looks like they are making sound choices.

It was a snap....billions and billions and billions in government money being handed out to whoever tows the line.

I can't believe that you are really as naive as you seem. As soon as the climate change hoax finishes dying, the oil companies will be right back to whatever business plan makes them money.

 

[westwall]

It also seems that these companies have also got up to speed on climate science, as per the statements below. That can't have been easy for them to shift from denial into reality, but it looks like they are making sound choices.

It was a snap....billions and billions and billions in government money being handed out to whoever tows the line.

I can't believe that you are really as naive as you seem. As soon as the climate change hoax finishes dying, the oil companies will be right back to whatever business plan makes them money.

He's not naive, he's an elitist. They think they can kill and imprison any who get in their way.

 

[westwall]

Given the changes that we see in the Arctic, I do not think that there is a reasonable chance of limiting the temperature change to 2 C. As for the petroleum corperations investing in renewables, I am sure that many in the top management realize that their business is energy, and it doesn't matter whether that energy is fossil fuels or renewables, as long as there is a profit to be made.

Yeah...what changes...be specific.

 

[ScienceRocks]

If there's NO warming in the next 5 years I'm just going to say it. It's over.

You can only push uphill so much.