UH OH Spaghetti Oh! Hansen says the temps have been flat!

[Saigon]

It also seems that these companies have also got up to speed on climate science, as per the statements below. That can't have been easy for them to shift from denial into reality, but it looks like they are making sound choices.

It was a snap....billions and billions and billions in government money being handed out to whoever tows the line.

I can't believe that you are really as naive as you seem. As soon as the climate change hoax finishes dying, the oil companies will be right back to whatever business plan makes them money.

Wonderful posting, SSDD - I really did laugh out loud at that. That really is funny!

Good to know oil companies don't pay for their own research!!

 

[ScienceRocks]

It also seems that these companies have also got up to speed on climate science, as per the statements below. That can't have been easy for them to shift from denial into reality, but it looks like they are making sound choices.

It was a snap....billions and billions and billions in government money being handed out to whoever tows the line.

I can't believe that you are really as naive as you seem. As soon as the climate change hoax finishes dying, the oil companies will be right back to whatever business plan makes them money.

Wonderful posting, SSDD - I really did laugh out loud at that. That really is funny!

Good to know oil companies don't pay for their own research!!

Why do you trust the UN?

 

[Saigon]

Matthew -

This is not difficult stuff. Find any scientific body or profession you trust, any research unit or university - and ask them.

They will all tell you the same thing.

 

[westwall]

Matthew -

This is not difficult stuff. Find any scientific body or profession you trust, any research unit or university - and ask them.

They will all tell you the same thing.

Yep, follow the money, honey.

 

[IanC]

If there's NO warming in the next 5 years I'm just going to say it. It's over.

You can only push uphill so much.

I dont really see a need for another five years to understand that CO2 theory is wrong but at least you are open to evidence.

 

[Saigon]

This really may be one of the funniest threads ever. It really is just hilarious to learn that oil companies decided to lie and pretend that climate change was real, thus destroying their own industry and market, because they wanted to get government research money.

And this the same companies who initially denied climate change, of course.

Who would have though that those evil oil companies would actually lie and undermine themselves, all as part of an evil plot to get research grants??!!!

I have to take my hat off to you, SSDD, Wailingwall and Ian, for coming up with a conspiracy theory even funnier than Frank's claim that the German conservative government was supporting a Marxist plot for world domination by phasing out nuclear reactors.

 

[SSDD]

Wonderful posting, SSDD - I really did laugh out loud at that. That really is funny!

Good to know oil companies don't pay for their own research!!

Are you really so naive that you believe that energy companies haven't jumped on the AGW bandwagon because it is profitable? Here is a clue....follow the money trail...it is so big that even a lefty like you should be able to follow it with no problem.

 

[SSDD]

Matthew -

This is not difficult stuff. Find any scientific body or profession you trust, any research unit or university - and ask them.

They will all tell you the same thing.

And on what basis do you place your trust in them?

 

[SSDD]

This really may be one of the funniest threads ever. It really is just hilarious to learn that oil companies decided to lie and pretend that climate change was real, thus destroying their own industry and market, because they wanted to get government research money.

Why are you unable to be honest about this topic? There is no pretending that climate change is real...The climate is changing and has always been changing. The lie is that man is responsible.

And this the same companies who initially denied climate change, of course.

Follow the money.

Who would have though that those evil oil companies would actually lie and undermine themselves, all as part of an evil plot to get research grants??!!!

They aren't undermining themselves. You must be a journalist because you appear to know exactly squat about anything. They are making billions in tax credits and incentives by jumping on the bandwagon not to mention higher energy costs passed along to consumers....noticed the prices at the pump and your home energy bill lately? There is more energy available than ever, the difference is the effect of the AGW hoax.

I have to take my hat off to you, SSDD, Wailingwall and Ian, for coming up with a conspiracy theory even funnier than Frank's claim that the German conservative government was supporting a Marxist plot for world domination by phasing out nuclear reactors.

It isn't a conspiracy as it is no secret to anyone who actually takes a minute and a half to look. It is simply a shift in a business plan that will pay higher dividends to the shareholders. Are you realy this clueless?

 

[Saigon]

SSDD -

For any kind of meaningful debate to take place - even on discussion forums - there needs to be some basic standard of honesty, intellectual merit and subject knowledge in place.

Suggesting that oil companies willingly attacked their own products in order to make financial gains proves to be that you are well below any such standard. Defend it all you like, but the very idea is simply childish. If there is any possible response other than laughter, I can't think of it.

 

[SSDD]

SSDD -

For any kind of meaningful debate to take place - even on discussion forums to take place - there needs to be some basic standard of honesty, intellectual merit and subject knowledge in place.

Suggesting that oil companies willingly attacked their own products in order to make financial gains proves to be that you are well below any such standard. Defend it all you like, but the very idea is simply childish.

Do you deny that energy companies are getting billions in tax credits, and incentives for investment in renuables while at the same time raising prices when there is no shortage of energy available? You really are clueless. There is no attack on their product...we are still using it the same as always except paying more for it even though there is no shortage....and at the same time, they are raking in incredible amounts of money in tax breaks and incentives. Do you have the first bit of knowledge regarding economics or are you stuck on marx?

For any sort of meaningful debate to happen, one of us needs to get a clue......so get one. Try following the money. As I said, the trail is so big that even a lefty like you can't miss it if you will pull your head out long enough to look.

 

[polarbear]

This really may be one of the funniest threads ever. It really is just hilarious to learn that oil companies decided to lie and pretend that climate change was real, thus destroying their own industry and market, because they wanted to get government research money.

And this the same companies who initially denied climate change, of course.

Who would have though that those evil oil companies would actually lie and undermine themselves, all as part of an evil plot to get research grants??!!!

I have to take my hat off to you, SSDD, Wailingwall and Ian, for coming up with a conspiracy theory even funnier than Frank's claim that the German conservative government was supporting a Marxist plot for world domination by phasing out nuclear reactors.

Every day I read news left & right leaning online-papers and some that are actually neutral from Europe, Asia, the Middle East, North & South America in 4 different languages and if You do that then You get a pretty good idea of the overall picture. Are You ?
I think not ! Because if You would, then You would not be writing that crap You just did.... Let`s start with Your comments about the "German conservative Government supporting Marxist plots". You have no idea whatsoever who Angela Merkel REALLY is,...1.) because You were born only yesterday
2.) because of the "news" that You get in the socialist information vacuum You call Finland,... you`ll never find out !
3.) and because you are too arrogant to realize how little you do know.
Instead of wondering if there is any truth to Merkel`s highly questionable background or why the Saudis are pouring money into Enviro-wacko.orgs You respond like a preconditioned chimp...with the old "LOL, hahaha...conspiracy theory" cliché, typical to You and the other shallow & stupid facebook & twitter degenerates who can`t function beyond a 140 ASCII limit.
So I`m pretty certain that what I`m telling You now will by far exceed Your attention span and comprehension limit.
Angela Merkel was the top graduate of the Soviet Academy for propaganda & Agitation while the DDR was a Soviet satellite State.
When "the wall" came down she and all the other East German Stasi collaborators instantly became BRD citizens with voting rights and infected every political party. Just so You know,..shortly after "Joschka Fischer" became the new German Minister for foreign Affairs. "Joschka" was a former "Red Army Fraction" (R.A.F. & Baader Meinhof group )member who was actively engaged in Terrorism, assassinations, hijackings and was implicated in the murder of soldiers at a US Army base in the former "West" Germany from where he stole weapons which were later used in hijackings, and other terrorist acts. Fischer planned the attack and drove the car.
When the DDR collapsed the "Stasi" shredded it`s archive which was later pains takenly re-assembled by thousands of West German "Verfassungs Schutz" and BGS (federal Sate security) Police. This is where the info about Fischer, Merkel and many other "new" BRD citizens was found.
BBC News - Stasi files: The world's biggest jigsaw puzzle
Unfortunately these instant citizens managed to usurp to high rank political positions faster than rats can invade an open to all soup kitchen and most of the staff in these archives which then became the "BStU" was under control under ex- communist DDR "Stasi" State Security Police...which managed to "sanitize" the files of Fischer, Angela Merkel and many others...
The head of the BGS was fired because of "discrimination" when he tried to fire these Stasi bastards...reason...With all these instant citizens from the communist DDR that swelled the public sector unions that it became political suicide if you spoke like that...and because of these organized union bastards the Stasi could not formally be declared as a criminal organization like the Nazis or the SS,.. even though they were responsible for many acts of terrorism, murder, assassinations,...by the way "Carlos The Jackal" was one of the Stasi-Operatives...
Thus Fischer etc. went on to enter the political scene unhindered....with much help from the left wing media...(just like Obama..!!)...
Matter of fact he`s got a lot of things in common with Frau Merkel. She had her records concerning her schooling & communist past destroyed by the Stasi...and Obama who attended Islamist schools had his records PERMANENTLY sealed...You could get a jail sentence trying to access Obama`s school & University Student records...!!!..
Fischer was the founder of the "Green Party"...the same world wide environment movement as You know it today and who`s propaganda is Your gospel. When the "Green Party" was too slow gaining political decision making power Fischer switched over to the SPD which was then the ruling Party and instantly became foreign Minister, while the communist implant, "conservative" Angela Merkel joined the CDU...and became the Minister for environment. In that capacity she inexplicably relaxed the strict Nuclear Energy rules we had and promptly a whole rash of contamination accidents occurred for which she refused all responsibility, blaming it on the Nuclear Industry which she later crippled totally when she became Chancellor Angela Merkel...Germany`s "Climate Chancellor" who forced Germany into Wind & Solar and ordered the shut down of our entire Nuclear power Industry...here is a DW clip ( in English) from 1998...skip forward to 7:10 when she was the Minister for Environment ...because the stuff before that is way over Your little head anyway..
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2H38UpdQhM"]How Climate Science destroyed Germany.wmv - YouTube[/ame]
...and she was also implicated for having facilitated Nuclear weapons technology from Berlin`s Max Planck Institute to Pakistan....
Her first act was to form a coalition with Fischer`s creation "The Green Party".
I really don`t care what simpletons like You want to call it,.."plot",..."conspiracy theory", or whatever to continue to live the lifes typical for those who can`t handle the truth which is by far too complicated for Your little nanny state "education" minds and prefer to suck up the pre-digested Pablem Your consensus media is spoon feeding You....I don`t care what You believe, because, thank God in Canada the not so stupid Department of Revenue is prosecuting these enviro orgs for tax fraud...and this is how it has come to light how the Saudis have been pumping money into .orgs who want to stifle North American Oil and Gas resource developments..no, it`s not "politically motivated prosecution"...or a Government "Conspiracy" against enviro- Groups in Canada...that is the 5. th time that happened under 5 different Governments that this illegal lobby-, charity tax exemption fraud by these foreign funded "Green.orgs" was exposed and prosecuted...
The saudis don`t just sponsor Jihad Islamic schools in Canada and the U.S.,...they have been deeply involved pumping money into everything that hinders domestic oil production...if You are too dumb to figure out why they might want to do that then You should not plaster Your crap comments all over this thread and ridicule others "Wailingwall " who are better informed than You`ll ever be.
I have been a member of the BGS, as a Chem. Eng because I loved "spectacular chemical reactions" and know most of the above first hand from my ex-colleagues who have been leaking it to wiki-leaks as well...it`s published right here

Stasi-in-bstu.pdf - WikiLeaks
Summary

Report on the employment of former Ministry of State Security (MfS; “Stasi&#8220 members by Federal Commissioner for Stasi Files (BstU) (May 2007) This report gives the results of an investigation into the employment of former Stasi members with the Federal Commissioner for Stasi files (BStU) that was commissioned by the German government’s Commission for Culture and Media (BKM), the federal regulatory authority in charge of overseeing the BStU.

...but I won`t translate it for You,...so unless You can understand German , You`ll stay as dumb as You are till You learn to be less arrogant and quit ridiculing what others in this forum, who are way better informed that You`ll ever be are telling You.

 

[Saigon]

Polar Bear -

With all due respect, it's probably best that you focus on posting comments that are at least vaguely coherent.

While it is kind of you to post a kind of potted history of Germany, for those of us who actually know the country quite well, it isn't particularly enlightening.

I read news left & right leaning online-papers and some that are actually neutral from Europe, Asia, the Middle East, North & South America in 4 different languages

If only English were one of them!

 

[polarbear]

Polar Bear -

With all due respect, it's probably best that you focus on posting comments that are at least vaguely coherent.

While it is kind of you to post a kind of potted history of Germany, for those of us who actually know the country quite well, it isn't particularly enlightening.


btw. Finland has a CONSERVATIVE government - not socialist.

No it`s best I don`t waste my time with little dick heads like You..I assumed You`ld try thinking with the other head, not the little pro- gay one in your pants...!!
I did say from the start that Your attention span does not extend beyound 140 twitter ASCII`s . 3 sentences later You can`t remember what was said in the first sentence...thus anything beyond is "incoherent" to a dummy like You...if that short & simple 1/4 of a screen page account of who is who and who the "Green movement" is "incoherent" to You...then stay away from talking about something far more complicated, like physics...
Like the crap You wrote last year about renewable energy" and when I told You how "power on demand" works and then the engineering term "power factor" was as "incoherent" to You...because dummies like You can connect at a maximum only 140 twitter dots..!!

 

[westwall]

This really may be one of the funniest threads ever. It really is just hilarious to learn that oil companies decided to lie and pretend that climate change was real, thus destroying their own industry and market, because they wanted to get government research money.

And this the same companies who initially denied climate change, of course.

Who would have though that those evil oil companies would actually lie and undermine themselves, all as part of an evil plot to get research grants??!!!

I have to take my hat off to you, SSDD, Wailingwall and Ian, for coming up with a conspiracy theory even funnier than Frank's claim that the German conservative government was supporting a Marxist plot for world domination by phasing out nuclear reactors.

Really? How exactly will the regs "destroy" their industry? No regulations promulgated by the politicians has any impact on the oil companies. They have a HUGE effect on the poor and middle class to whom the regulatory fees will be passed along to, but the oil companies? Once again you demonstrate a complete lack of common sense, critical thinking and simple ability to do basic research.

 

[westwall]

SSDD -

For any kind of meaningful debate to take place - even on discussion forums - there needs to be some basic standard of honesty, intellectual merit and subject knowledge in place.

Suggesting that oil companies willingly attacked their own products in order to make financial gains proves to be that you are well below any such standard. Defend it all you like, but the very idea is simply childish. If there is any possible response other than laughter, I can't think of it.

I agree, you have exhibited a total lack of intellectual honesty since you began posting, so bugger off troll.

 

[westwall]

Polar Bear -

With all due respect, it's probably best that you focus on posting comments that are at least vaguely coherent.

While it is kind of you to post a kind of potted history of Germany, for those of us who actually know the country quite well, it isn't particularly enlightening.


btw. Finland has a CONSERVATIVE government - not socialist.

You have no respect for anyone. You are a troll, so please...just go away.

 

[Saigon]

Wailing Wall & SSDD -

Really? How exactly will the regs "destroy" their industry

I am genuinely surprised you both have to ask, but since you do -

At once stage Shell owned the single largest CO2 emissions site on earth. Shell, BP and Chevron are each amongst the companies in the world most directly responsible for emitting CO2. Releasing CO2 is what they do, it's the nature of their business. It's much like the tobacco industry and cancer in that there is simply no way they can simply avoid producing what they produce. Where there is oil, there is CO2.

When climate change first hit the headlines they denied it, and carried on business as usual.

It was only after 20 years and a lot of vicious internal fighting that first one and then the other conceded that the science was so insurmountable that they could no longer deny it. One thing we can be sure of - if it was in any way possile to deny clmate, they would absolutely continue to do. By admitting that CO2 is responsible, they open themselves up to law suits, to protests, and to threats from new and cleaner fuels and engine technologies. Do you think an oil company would really be happy about the release of the Toyota Prius?

Since then they have spent millions improving their refineries, and millions more researching alternative fuels to petrol. They may one day recoup some of their losses by selling these products - or maybe not. (I think biogas produed from algae is a reach, myself.) They are businesses, and have to make money, after all.

Climate change presents an enormous challenge to oil companies, and I take my hat off to them that they have had the courage and honesty to (eventually) accept scientific reality.

Guys - this is purely and imply about intellectual merit and honesty. If I were you I'd think quite carefully about the amount of science it must have taken for oil companies to accept that they are partially responsible for climate change - they were probably the last major organisations on earth who would deny it.

 

[westwall]

Wailing Wall & SSDD -

Really? How exactly will the regs "destroy" their industry

I am genuinely surprised you both have to ask, but since you do -

At once stage Shell owned the single largest CO2 emissions site on earth. Shell, BP and Chevron are each amongst the companies in the world most directly responsible for emitting CO2. Releasing CO2 is what they do, it's the nature of their business. It's much like the tobacco industry and cancer in that there is simply no way they can simply avoid producing what they produce. Where there is oil, there is CO2.

When climate change first hit the headlines they denied it, and carried on business as usual.

It was only after 20 years and a lot of vicious internal fighting that first one and then the other conceded that the science was so insurmountable that they could no longer deny it. One thing we can be sure of - if it was in any way possile to deny clmate, they would absolutely continue to do. By admitting that CO2 is responsible, they open themselves up to law suits, to protests, and to threats from new and cleaner fuels and engine technologies. Do you think an oil company would really be happy about the release of the Toyota Prius?

Since then they have spent millions improving their refineries, and millions more researching alternative fuels to petrol. They may one day recoup some of their losses by selling these products - or maybe not. (I think biogas produed from algae is a reach, myself.) They are businesses, and have to make money, after all.

Climate change presents an enormous challenge to oil companies, and I take my hat off to them that they have had the courage and honesty to (eventually) accept scientific reality.

Guys - this is purely and imply about intellectual merit and honesty. If I were you I'd think quite carefully about the amount of science it must have taken for oil companies to accept that they are partially responsible for climate change - they were probably the last major organisations on earth who would deny it.

You are one delusional individual you know that! Let's see, would I, as a wealthy oil company, be willing to invest a few million dollars to make billions? Hmmmmm, let me think about this....hmmmmm......YES! I would do that. Wouldn't you?

 

[SSDD]

You are one delusional individual you know that! Let's see, would I, as a wealthy oil company, be willing to invest a few million dollars to make billions? Hmmmmm, let me think about this....hmmmmm......YES! I would do that. Wouldn't you?

He is the poster child for the major failings of a socialist education....no economic theory at all and no critical thinking skills. Unfortunately the US educational system has been swinging in that direction for far to long as well.