Trump speaks to President of Taiwan -- liberal media shits a brick

[Flopper]

Not a chance. Watch and learn.

US won't move away, but it will clarify its relationship so that it isn't so one sided, and put China and N. Korea's aggressive behavior on notice.

That assumes reasonable and good faith behavior from China. I'm not sure they are capable of that. They are deeply invested, financially and emotionally, in the status quo.

Trump knows what buttons to push to get the Chinese to cooperate. They are much more dependent on the US than the US is on them. He will negotiate from a position of strength, it's the only way to get results.

There is no way to tell whether Trump's actions just reflect his incompetence or signal a new direction in US foreign policy.

No trade negotiations in China takes place without the support of the Chinese Communist Party. Trump's break with a 40 year protocol in an unofficial recognition of Taiwan is a shot across the bow. Trump is thinking trade negotiations. The Communist Party will be thinking military action.

China regards Taiwan as a breakaway province that should one day be reunified with the mainland. If as president, Trump continues to provoke China with recognition of the ROC, China will respond probably with a military expansion in the South China Sea.

Thinking the US holds all the cards in dealing with China is foolish. 82% of China exports go to countries other than the US. Recent trade agreements between China and Australia, New Zealand, Pakistan, and the giant Asian trade pact will reduce dependence on the US even further. Trump's promised exit from the TPP may well allow China to supplant the US in that agreement.

If the Chinese are that much of a loose cannon, then any action on our part is doomed to get an vast over reaction.

IMO, they understand what he is doing, ie signally that he is NOT going to play by their rules, and that he is going to be very aggressive in trade negotiations.


If Chine doesn't need that 400 billion a year, then they should be very much willing to change the trade to be more equal.

China is not a loose cannon and they certainly value US exports. However, the Chinese government is far more ideological based than the US. The Communist Party is for all practically purposes, the only political party. They allow the free market to exist because it benefits the people. The party maintains a hands off policy compared to the US when it comes to private enterprise and the party expects private enterprise to stay out of party (government) business. When Trump tries to exert pressure on China to negotiate trade by recognizing Taiwan, that is seen by the government as a provocative act that threatens security and thus involves the military.

 

[EverCurious]

^^ "benefits the people" by that you mean the Chinese government's attempts to take over as the global currency right?

 

[Correll]

US won't move away, but it will clarify its relationship so that it isn't so one sided, and put China and N. Korea's aggressive behavior on notice.

That assumes reasonable and good faith behavior from China. I'm not sure they are capable of that. They are deeply invested, financially and emotionally, in the status quo.

Trump knows what buttons to push to get the Chinese to cooperate. They are much more dependent on the US than the US is on them. He will negotiate from a position of strength, it's the only way to get results.

There is no way to tell whether Trump's actions just reflect his incompetence or signal a new direction in US foreign policy.

No trade negotiations in China takes place without the support of the Chinese Communist Party. Trump's break with a 40 year protocol in an unofficial recognition of Taiwan is a shot across the bow. Trump is thinking trade negotiations. The Communist Party will be thinking military action.

China regards Taiwan as a breakaway province that should one day be reunified with the mainland. If as president, Trump continues to provoke China with recognition of the ROC, China will respond probably with a military expansion in the South China Sea.

Thinking the US holds all the cards in dealing with China is foolish. 82% of China exports go to countries other than the US. Recent trade agreements between China and Australia, New Zealand, Pakistan, and the giant Asian trade pact will reduce dependence on the US even further. Trump's promised exit from the TPP may well allow China to supplant the US in that agreement.

If the Chinese are that much of a loose cannon, then any action on our part is doomed to get an vast over reaction.

IMO, they understand what he is doing, ie signally that he is NOT going to play by their rules, and that he is going to be very aggressive in trade negotiations.


If Chine doesn't need that 400 billion a year, then they should be very much willing to change the trade to be more equal.

China is not a loose cannon and they certainly value US exports. However, the Chinese government is far more ideological based than the US. The Communist Party is for all practically purposes, the only political party. They allow the free market to exist because it benefits the people. The party maintains a hands off policy compared to the US when it comes to private enterprise and the party expects private enterprise to stay out of party (government) business. When Trump tries to exert pressure on China to negotiate trade by recognizing Taiwan, that is seen by the government as a provocative act that threatens security and thus involves the military.

If they are prepared to response to a phone call with military action, as you claim, then loose cannon is what they are.


YOu have been downplaying the importance of US trade with Chine TO CHINA.

If it is not that big of a deal, then they can just give US what we want, and we can go on our way.

 

[Flopper]

Not a chance. Watch and learn.

US won't move away, but it will clarify its relationship so that it isn't so one sided, and put China and N. Korea's aggressive behavior on notice.

That assumes reasonable and good faith behavior from China. I'm not sure they are capable of that. They are deeply invested, financially and emotionally, in the status quo.

Trump knows what buttons to push to get the Chinese to cooperate. They are much more dependent on the US than the US is on them. He will negotiate from a position of strength, it's the only way to get results.

There is no way to tell whether Trump's actions just reflect his incompetence or signal a new direction in US foreign policy.

No trade negotiations in China takes place without the support of the Chinese Communist Party. Trump's break with a 40 year protocol in an unofficial recognition of Taiwan is a shot across the bow. Trump is thinking trade negotiations. The Communist Party will be thinking military action.

China regards Taiwan as a breakaway province that should one day be reunified with the mainland. If as president, Trump continues to provoke China with recognition of the ROC, China will respond probably with a military expansion in the South China Sea.

....

That's going to happen in the next decade either way.

Hopefully later rather sooner. About the last thing we need is military confrontation with China.

 

[Flopper]

That assumes reasonable and good faith behavior from China. I'm not sure they are capable of that. They are deeply invested, financially and emotionally, in the status quo.

Trump knows what buttons to push to get the Chinese to cooperate. They are much more dependent on the US than the US is on them. He will negotiate from a position of strength, it's the only way to get results.

There is no way to tell whether Trump's actions just reflect his incompetence or signal a new direction in US foreign policy.

No trade negotiations in China takes place without the support of the Chinese Communist Party. Trump's break with a 40 year protocol in an unofficial recognition of Taiwan is a shot across the bow. Trump is thinking trade negotiations. The Communist Party will be thinking military action.

China regards Taiwan as a breakaway province that should one day be reunified with the mainland. If as president, Trump continues to provoke China with recognition of the ROC, China will respond probably with a military expansion in the South China Sea.

Thinking the US holds all the cards in dealing with China is foolish. 82% of China exports go to countries other than the US. Recent trade agreements between China and Australia, New Zealand, Pakistan, and the giant Asian trade pact will reduce dependence on the US even further. Trump's promised exit from the TPP may well allow China to supplant the US in that agreement.

If the Chinese are that much of a loose cannon, then any action on our part is doomed to get an vast over reaction.

IMO, they understand what he is doing, ie signally that he is NOT going to play by their rules, and that he is going to be very aggressive in trade negotiations.


If Chine doesn't need that 400 billion a year, then they should be very much willing to change the trade to be more equal.

China is not a loose cannon and they certainly value US exports. However, the Chinese government is far more ideological based than the US. The Communist Party is for all practically purposes, the only political party. They allow the free market to exist because it benefits the people. The party maintains a hands off policy compared to the US when it comes to private enterprise and the party expects private enterprise to stay out of party (government) business. When Trump tries to exert pressure on China to negotiate trade by recognizing Taiwan, that is seen by the government as a provocative act that threatens security and thus involves the military.

If they are prepared to response to a phone call with military action, as you claim, then loose cannon is what they are.


YOu have been downplaying the importance of US trade with Chine TO CHINA.

If it is not that big of a deal, then they can just give US what we want, and we can go on our way.

No, I said involve the military. That can take many forms such as an increased military presence or a closer alliance with North Korea, increased arm shipments to Iran and other countries, not so friendly with the US.

Any agreement with China will make little difference to the US or China economically but to Trump and Xi Jinping, it would be huge.

 

[Roudy]

Totally will.


....

Not a chance. Watch and learn.

US won't move away, but it will clarify its relationship so that it isn't so one sided, and put China and N. Korea's aggressive behavior on notice.

That assumes reasonable and good faith behavior from China. I'm not sure they are capable of that. They are deeply invested, financially and emotionally, in the status quo.

Trump knows what buttons to push to get the Chinese to cooperate. They are much more dependent on the US than the US is on them. He will negotiate from a position of strength, it's the only way to get results.

There is no way to tell whether Trump's actions just reflect his incompetence or signal a new direction in US foreign policy.

No trade negotiations in China takes place without the support of the Chinese Communist Party. Trump's break with a 40 year protocol in an unofficial recognition of Taiwan is a shot across the bow. Trump is thinking trade negotiations. The Communist Party will be thinking military action.

China regards Taiwan as a breakaway province that should one day be reunified with the mainland. If as president, Trump continues to provoke China with recognition of the ROC, China will respond probably with a military expansion in the South China Sea.

Thinking the US holds all the cards in dealing with China is foolish. 82% of China exports go to countries other than the US. Recent trade agreements between China and Australia, New Zealand, Pakistan, and the giant Asian trade pact will reduce dependence on the US even further. Trump's promised exit from the TPP may well allow China to supplant the US in that agreement.

Good luck on that. Non of those countries populations you listed in the TPP have even remotely the purchasing power or the consumer base that the US has. In fact no country comes even close. This is what makes America unique, the people have lots of money and there is a "must have" consumer culture that is ingrained from early childhood. The US certainly doesn't hold all the cards but it certainly has refused too use the best hand on the table, for too long.

 

[Flopper]

Not a chance. Watch and learn.

US won't move away, but it will clarify its relationship so that it isn't so one sided, and put China and N. Korea's aggressive behavior on notice.

That assumes reasonable and good faith behavior from China. I'm not sure they are capable of that. They are deeply invested, financially and emotionally, in the status quo.

Trump knows what buttons to push to get the Chinese to cooperate. They are much more dependent on the US than the US is on them. He will negotiate from a position of strength, it's the only way to get results.

There is no way to tell whether Trump's actions just reflect his incompetence or signal a new direction in US foreign policy.

No trade negotiations in China takes place without the support of the Chinese Communist Party. Trump's break with a 40 year protocol in an unofficial recognition of Taiwan is a shot across the bow. Trump is thinking trade negotiations. The Communist Party will be thinking military action.

China regards Taiwan as a breakaway province that should one day be reunified with the mainland. If as president, Trump continues to provoke China with recognition of the ROC, China will respond probably with a military expansion in the South China Sea.

Thinking the US holds all the cards in dealing with China is foolish. 82% of China exports go to countries other than the US. Recent trade agreements between China and Australia, New Zealand, Pakistan, and the giant Asian trade pact will reduce dependence on the US even further. Trump's promised exit from the TPP may well allow China to supplant the US in that agreement.

Good luck on that. Non of those countries populations you listed in the TPP have even remotely the purchasing power or the consumer base that the US has. In fact no country comes even close. This is what makes America unique, the people have lots of money and there is a "must have" consumer culture that is ingrained from early childhood. The US certainly doesn't hold all the cards but it certainly has refused too use the best hand on the table, for too long.

Members of the TPP, Australia, New Zealand, Brunei, Canada, Chile, Malaysia, Mexico, Peru, Singapore, Japan Vietnam, and the United States are a unique blend of emerging markets and developed countries. If the US decides to walk out, China stands ready to replace the US as a major partner in that market. Although the TPP agreement is far from perfect, dropping out of that agreement will damage the US export capabilities in the future.

 

[JoeB131]

What do you think is a reasonable time frame to expect the President Elect to change the direction of the world economy?

Trump is getting an economy with 4.6% unemployment and 3% GDP Growth. The real question is, "How fast will he fuck that up?"

1. Your response did not address my point at all, it was just a personal attack. Thus your post is invalid and my point stands. The world population is not a "We". We, the Citizens of the United States do not have the same problems as the people of China or Mexico.

You don't think a Chinese or Mexican worker doesn't worry about the same things you do every day?

2. NOpe. I think the "bribe" was what he could do at this point in time, and that once he takes office that his actual trade policy will be based on different methods. But that he has signaled his seriousness about his goal, ie keeping US jobs here, or bringing them back.

Actually, a Bribe is all he really can do... because it's all the GOP in Congress is going to agree to. You really think the GOP rank and file is going to overturn NAFTA? You are delusional.

Even if they did, the thing is, most of those jobs aren't going to be done by Willie White Trash. They are going to be done either by immigrant labor (legal immigrants) or by machines.

Again, I got to see this in action between 2008 and 2015. I worked at a factory that made electronic components. We went from employing 300 people down to 130 when I left. Most of them were Hispanic and Indian ladies on the floor. (A survey once found that 17 different languages were spoken on the assembly floor.) Some jobs went to Mexico, some to Malaysia, some were replaced by machines, some were replaced when I outsourced to local vendors who had better machines than we did. (I saved the company 70K one year outsourcing a process, and the product we got was better than what we made in house.)

You see, if the dumb white trash without college educations think they are getting their jobs back because Trump threatened to build a wall that is never going to happen, he's going to be horrifically surprised when it doesn't.

 

[Roudy]

What do you think is a reasonable time frame to expect the President Elect to change the direction of the world economy?

Trump is getting an economy with 4.6% unemployment and 3% GDP Growth. The real question is, "How fast will he fuck that up?"

1. Your response did not address my point at all, it was just a personal attack. Thus your post is invalid and my point stands. The world population is not a "We". We, the Citizens of the United States do not have the same problems as the people of China or Mexico.

You don't think a Chinese or Mexican worker doesn't worry about the same things you do every day?

2. NOpe. I think the "bribe" was what he could do at this point in time, and that once he takes office that his actual trade policy will be based on different methods. But that he has signaled his seriousness about his goal, ie keeping US jobs here, or bringing them back.

Actually, a Bribe is all he really can do... because it's all the GOP in Congress is going to agree to. You really think the GOP rank and file is going to overturn NAFTA? You are delusional.

Even if they did, the thing is, most of those jobs aren't going to be done by Willie White Trash. They are going to be done either by immigrant labor (legal immigrants) or by machines.

Again, I got to see this in action between 2008 and 2015. I worked at a factory that made electronic components. We went from employing 300 people down to 130 when I left. Most of them were Hispanic and Indian ladies on the floor. (A survey once found that 17 different languages were spoken on the assembly floor.) Some jobs went to Mexico, some to Malaysia, some were replaced by machines, some were replaced when I outsourced to local vendors who had better machines than we did. (I saved the company 70K one year outsourcing a process, and the product we got was better than what we made in house.)

You see, if the dumb white trash without college educations think they are getting their jobs back because Trump threatened to build a wall that is never going to happen, he's going to be horrifically surprised when it doesn't.

Yeah, industries and markets change big fucking deal, they moved you from cleaning the toilets to sweeping the floor...but it appears things were so great under the divisive, race baiting, socialist, anti American, anti capitalist president Hussein, that the American people decided to not vote for Hillary Clinton, the person who was going to continue all of president Hussein's policies, and instead voted for the diametrical opposite, Donald Trump.

 

[Roudy]

US won't move away, but it will clarify its relationship so that it isn't so one sided, and put China and N. Korea's aggressive behavior on notice.

That assumes reasonable and good faith behavior from China. I'm not sure they are capable of that. They are deeply invested, financially and emotionally, in the status quo.

Trump knows what buttons to push to get the Chinese to cooperate. They are much more dependent on the US than the US is on them. He will negotiate from a position of strength, it's the only way to get results.

There is no way to tell whether Trump's actions just reflect his incompetence or signal a new direction in US foreign policy.

No trade negotiations in China takes place without the support of the Chinese Communist Party. Trump's break with a 40 year protocol in an unofficial recognition of Taiwan is a shot across the bow. Trump is thinking trade negotiations. The Communist Party will be thinking military action.

China regards Taiwan as a breakaway province that should one day be reunified with the mainland. If as president, Trump continues to provoke China with recognition of the ROC, China will respond probably with a military expansion in the South China Sea.

Thinking the US holds all the cards in dealing with China is foolish. 82% of China exports go to countries other than the US. Recent trade agreements between China and Australia, New Zealand, Pakistan, and the giant Asian trade pact will reduce dependence on the US even further. Trump's promised exit from the TPP may well allow China to supplant the US in that agreement.

Good luck on that. Non of those countries populations you listed in the TPP have even remotely the purchasing power or the consumer base that the US has. In fact no country comes even close. This is what makes America unique, the people have lots of money and there is a "must have" consumer culture that is ingrained from early childhood. The US certainly doesn't hold all the cards but it certainly has refused too use the best hand on the table, for too long.

Members of the TPP, Australia, New Zealand, Brunei, Canada, Chile, Malaysia, Mexico, Peru, Singapore, Japan Vietnam, and the United States are a unique blend of emerging markets and developed countries. If the US decides to walk out, China stands ready to replace the US as a major partner in that market. Although the TPP agreement is far from perfect, dropping out of that agreement will damage the US export capabilities in the future.

Like I said, non of those countries have the consumer market with the kind of average income that the US has. The entire world wants a piece of the action in the US. Many of the factories in countries like China, Canada and Mexico are set up by American entrepreneurs and companies who have laid off their own employees in return for lower wages,maxes, and regulations offered abroad. So this cooperation with the US has also helped build industries in these countries, who then turn around and compete with the US, by offering these same products and services to other countries. These idiotic one way trade deals are literally allowing countries to rape America.

 

[JoeB131]

Yeah, industries and markets change big fucking deal, they moved you from cleaning the toilets to sweeping the floor...but it appears things were so great under the divisive, race baiting, socialist, anti American, anti capitalist president Hussein, that the American people decided to not vote for Hillary Clinton, the person who was going to continue all of president Hussein's policies, and instead voted for the diametrical opposite, Donald Trump.

Uh, Trump lost the popular vote. America got this right, the system got it wrong.

 

[Flopper]

That assumes reasonable and good faith behavior from China. I'm not sure they are capable of that. They are deeply invested, financially and emotionally, in the status quo.

Trump knows what buttons to push to get the Chinese to cooperate. They are much more dependent on the US than the US is on them. He will negotiate from a position of strength, it's the only way to get results.

There is no way to tell whether Trump's actions just reflect his incompetence or signal a new direction in US foreign policy.

No trade negotiations in China takes place without the support of the Chinese Communist Party. Trump's break with a 40 year protocol in an unofficial recognition of Taiwan is a shot across the bow. Trump is thinking trade negotiations. The Communist Party will be thinking military action.

China regards Taiwan as a breakaway province that should one day be reunified with the mainland. If as president, Trump continues to provoke China with recognition of the ROC, China will respond probably with a military expansion in the South China Sea.

Thinking the US holds all the cards in dealing with China is foolish. 82% of China exports go to countries other than the US. Recent trade agreements between China and Australia, New Zealand, Pakistan, and the giant Asian trade pact will reduce dependence on the US even further. Trump's promised exit from the TPP may well allow China to supplant the US in that agreement.

Good luck on that. Non of those countries populations you listed in the TPP have even remotely the purchasing power or the consumer base that the US has. In fact no country comes even close. This is what makes America unique, the people have lots of money and there is a "must have" consumer culture that is ingrained from early childhood. The US certainly doesn't hold all the cards but it certainly has refused too use the best hand on the table, for too long.

Members of the TPP, Australia, New Zealand, Brunei, Canada, Chile, Malaysia, Mexico, Peru, Singapore, Japan Vietnam, and the United States are a unique blend of emerging markets and developed countries. If the US decides to walk out, China stands ready to replace the US as a major partner in that market. Although the TPP agreement is far from perfect, dropping out of that agreement will damage the US export capabilities in the future.

Like I said, non of those countries have the consumer market with the kind of average income that the US has. The entire world wants a piece of the action in the US. Many of the factories in countries like China, Canada and Mexico are set up by American entrepreneurs and companies who have laid off their own employees in return for lower wages,maxes, and regulations offered abroad. So this cooperation with the US has also helped build industries in these countries, who then turn around and compete with the US, by offering these same products and services to other countries. These idiotic one way trade deals are literally allowing countries to rape America.

Thanks to Trump, millions of American have become convinced that America's problems are caused by stupid trade negotiations with China. However, the fact is the United States does not have a trade agreement with China, neither a bilateral or a multilateral deal, much less a good one or a bad one. The two countries trade on simple baseline terms set by the WTO. When Trump says he wants to renegotiate our trade deal with China, he's talking about negotiating something that does not exist.

The US government and Chinese goverment don't do trade deals. Trade deals are done between US importers with Chinese exporters, sometimes producers, sometimes middle men exporters, and sometimes US subsidiaries operating in China. US importers pay a tax of a maximum of 17% depending on the goods. Since the Chinese do have distribution networks in the US, taxes on US imports from China are paid by US companies, not the Chinese producer or the Chinese government.

So what happens when we decide to punish US companies importing from China with a 35% tax? Do they start to buy from the US manufacturers? Only it those manufactures are the cheapest supplier. In most cases they will simply buy from another low cost producer abroad with no or low import tariffs. Large multinational companies with plants around the world with do an inventory swaps and avoid the tariffs completely. The net result is no new jobs produced in the US, just slightly higher prices.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Donald Trump speaks with Taiwan's President - CNNPolitics.com

It's high time that America's hypocritical policy of "not recognizing" Taiwan come to an end.

Taiwan is a friend and a trading partner. There is no reason Trump shouldn't talk to this independent country's President.

If Communist China doesn't like it, really they can take a long walk off a short pier.

ISnt it just hilarious?

Our journalists are such brain dead loons, it is a fucking riot!

 

[JimBowie1958]

Thanks to Trump, millions of American have become convinced that America's problems are caused by stupid trade negotiations with China. However, the fact is the United States does not have a trade agreement with China, neither a bilateral or a multilateral deal, much less a good one or a bad one. The two countries trade on simple baseline terms set by the WTO. When Trump says he wants to renegotiate our trade deal with China, he's talking about negotiating something that does not exist.

WTO trade terms should be enough to make for a healthy trade with China but China violates the WTO order rules by engaging in currency manipulation, product dumping and pirating and subsidizing their own industry while effectively preventing American goods into their markets.

And you dont seem to think that this is a serious problem.



China - Trade With China - Expectations Vs. Reality | Is Wal-Mart Good For America? | FRONTLINE | PBS
Economists disagree about the significance of the U.S. trade deficit with China. The U.S.-China Economic and Security Review Commission, a 12-member panel set up by Congress several years ago to report annually on our relations with China, says the burgeoning trade deficit is a matter of "long-term economic health and national security" for the U.S.

Conservative economist Paul Craig Roberts, who served in the Reagan administration, predicts the trade deficit will cause a crash of the U.S. dollar before long, and warns that the U.S. will wind up having a third-world economy, supplying raw-materials to other countries, who then ship back finished goods to the U.S. Economist Larry Mishel, president of the liberal Economic Policy Institute, contends that the trade deficit with China has cost the United States more than a million jobs over the past decade....

However, it is the overall trade balance, now running at more than $500 billion a year, that worries some on Wall Street, as well as economists such as Larry Mishel.

"We have a trade deficit now that's running around 5 percent of GDP," says Mishel. "This is very large by historical standards, and you run the risk of foreign investors losing confidence in the United States, pulling back from the dollar, the exchange rate falling, and interest rates rising, and all that could cause a major recession in the United States."

Another reason for concern about the trade deficit with China among American industrialists and the U.S. labor movement is the size of China's massive population. With a workforce that is far larger than the combined populations of Japan, Korea and the other so-called "Asian Tigers," China is fast becoming the world's primary factory, producing everything from footwear, clothing, furniture, toys, and computers to big-screen television sets, lasers, space components and huge port cranes.

Analysts concerned with long-term U.S. economic security see China's seemingly inexhaustible supply of cheap labor, coupled with the Chinese government's commitment to a rapid development strategy and the movement of Chinese industries into high-tech sectors, as posing a long-term threat to American producers across the board.

Why has the US federal government failed to use any of the WTO tools available to enforce any of these rules on China? Because China and their American proxies make to much of a fortune exploiting the US workers faith in their political leadership?

Then there is also this.
The Job-Killing Trade Deal You’ve Never Heard Of: The China Bilateral Investment Treaty

The deal is called the China Bilateral Investment Treaty, or BIT. This is a standalone compact which would normally be negotiated as the investment chapter in a broader free trade agreement. Investment treaties provide a framework for foreign investors to pursue direct corporate ownership stakes in a partner country, offering them a series of guarantees of non-discriminatory treatment, limits on the expropriation of capital, and access to extra-judicial tribunals to enforce the agreement. The latter are set up through a system known as the investor-state dispute settlement (ISDS) process, which has expanded in scope in recent years as a key protection for foreign investors. In fact, ISDS has proven hugely controversial in the TPP debate, with critics charging it would allow corporations to overturn national laws that constrain their profits.

The U.S. has implemented 41 BITs over the years, as well as investment chapters in a dozen free-trade agreements. But the U.S. already attracts more foreign direct investment than any country in the world, with $168 billion flowing in just in 2012. That includes investments from countries that until now have lacked the protections of a BIT, like China. “It’s pitched as a way to promote investment,” said Celeste Drake, trade and globalization policy specialist at the AFL-CIO. “We’re one of the top countries for foreign investment anyway. We don’t need to give away rights for foreign investors.”

Then also this too.
China WTO Trade Relations: Details Of The USA - China Trade Agreement with Export Opportunities

 

[Roudy]

Yeah, industries and markets change big fucking deal, they moved you from cleaning the toilets to sweeping the floor...but it appears things were so great under the divisive, race baiting, socialist, anti American, anti capitalist president Hussein, that the American people decided to not vote for Hillary Clinton, the person who was going to continue all of president Hussein's policies, and instead voted for the diametrical opposite, Donald Trump.

Uh, Trump lost the popular vote. America got this right, the system got it wrong.

The system got it right. Illegals in NY and CA don't get to pick the president. Popular vote doesn't win the game nor does who shot the most free throws.

 

[Roudy]

Trump knows what buttons to push to get the Chinese to cooperate. They are much more dependent on the US than the US is on them. He will negotiate from a position of strength, it's the only way to get results.

There is no way to tell whether Trump's actions just reflect his incompetence or signal a new direction in US foreign policy.

No trade negotiations in China takes place without the support of the Chinese Communist Party. Trump's break with a 40 year protocol in an unofficial recognition of Taiwan is a shot across the bow. Trump is thinking trade negotiations. The Communist Party will be thinking military action.

China regards Taiwan as a breakaway province that should one day be reunified with the mainland. If as president, Trump continues to provoke China with recognition of the ROC, China will respond probably with a military expansion in the South China Sea.

Thinking the US holds all the cards in dealing with China is foolish. 82% of China exports go to countries other than the US. Recent trade agreements between China and Australia, New Zealand, Pakistan, and the giant Asian trade pact will reduce dependence on the US even further. Trump's promised exit from the TPP may well allow China to supplant the US in that agreement.

Good luck on that. Non of those countries populations you listed in the TPP have even remotely the purchasing power or the consumer base that the US has. In fact no country comes even close. This is what makes America unique, the people have lots of money and there is a "must have" consumer culture that is ingrained from early childhood. The US certainly doesn't hold all the cards but it certainly has refused too use the best hand on the table, for too long.

Members of the TPP, Australia, New Zealand, Brunei, Canada, Chile, Malaysia, Mexico, Peru, Singapore, Japan Vietnam, and the United States are a unique blend of emerging markets and developed countries. If the US decides to walk out, China stands ready to replace the US as a major partner in that market. Although the TPP agreement is far from perfect, dropping out of that agreement will damage the US export capabilities in the future.

Like I said, non of those countries have the consumer market with the kind of average income that the US has. The entire world wants a piece of the action in the US. Many of the factories in countries like China, Canada and Mexico are set up by American entrepreneurs and companies who have laid off their own employees in return for lower wages,maxes, and regulations offered abroad. So this cooperation with the US has also helped build industries in these countries, who then turn around and compete with the US, by offering these same products and services to other countries. These idiotic one way trade deals are literally allowing countries to rape America.

Thanks to Trump, millions of American have become convinced that America's problems are caused by stupid trade negotiations with China. However, the fact is the United States does not have a trade agreement with China, neither a bilateral or a multilateral deal, much less a good one or a bad one. The two countries trade on simple baseline terms set by the WTO. When Trump says he wants to renegotiate our trade deal with China, he's talking about negotiating something that does not exist.

The US government and Chinese goverment don't do trade deals. Trade deals are done between US importers with Chinese exporters, sometimes producers, sometimes middle men exporters, and sometimes US subsidiaries operating in China. US importers pay a tax of a maximum of 17% depending on the goods. Since the Chinese do have distribution networks in the US, taxes on US imports from China are paid by US companies, not the Chinese producer or the Chinese government.

So what happens when we decide to punish US companies importing from China with a 35% tax? Do they start to buy from the US manufacturers? Only it those manufactures are the cheapest supplier. In most cases they will simply buy from another low cost producer abroad with no or low import tariffs. Large multinational companies with plants around the world with do an inventory swaps and avoid the tariffs completely. The net result is no new jobs produced in the US, just slightly higher prices.

Come on, you can't tell us that the arrangement the US has in these trade deals, is working for its companies or its workers. Our problems don't begin or end with disastrous trade deals, but they are indeed part of what has to be fixed, and a failed ideology.

 

[Correll]

Trump knows what buttons to push to get the Chinese to cooperate. They are much more dependent on the US than the US is on them. He will negotiate from a position of strength, it's the only way to get results.

There is no way to tell whether Trump's actions just reflect his incompetence or signal a new direction in US foreign policy.

No trade negotiations in China takes place without the support of the Chinese Communist Party. Trump's break with a 40 year protocol in an unofficial recognition of Taiwan is a shot across the bow. Trump is thinking trade negotiations. The Communist Party will be thinking military action.

China regards Taiwan as a breakaway province that should one day be reunified with the mainland. If as president, Trump continues to provoke China with recognition of the ROC, China will respond probably with a military expansion in the South China Sea.

Thinking the US holds all the cards in dealing with China is foolish. 82% of China exports go to countries other than the US. Recent trade agreements between China and Australia, New Zealand, Pakistan, and the giant Asian trade pact will reduce dependence on the US even further. Trump's promised exit from the TPP may well allow China to supplant the US in that agreement.

If the Chinese are that much of a loose cannon, then any action on our part is doomed to get an vast over reaction.

IMO, they understand what he is doing, ie signally that he is NOT going to play by their rules, and that he is going to be very aggressive in trade negotiations.


If Chine doesn't need that 400 billion a year, then they should be very much willing to change the trade to be more equal.

China is not a loose cannon and they certainly value US exports. However, the Chinese government is far more ideological based than the US. The Communist Party is for all practically purposes, the only political party. They allow the free market to exist because it benefits the people. The party maintains a hands off policy compared to the US when it comes to private enterprise and the party expects private enterprise to stay out of party (government) business. When Trump tries to exert pressure on China to negotiate trade by recognizing Taiwan, that is seen by the government as a provocative act that threatens security and thus involves the military.

If they are prepared to response to a phone call with military action, as you claim, then loose cannon is what they are.


YOu have been downplaying the importance of US trade with Chine TO CHINA.

If it is not that big of a deal, then they can just give US what we want, and we can go on our way.

No, I said involve the military. That can take many forms such as an increased military presence or a closer alliance with North Korea, increased arm shipments to Iran and other countries, not so friendly with the US.

Any agreement with China will make little difference to the US or China economically but to Trump and Xi Jinping, it would be huge.

To the citizens of this nation, the mass export of jobs overseas is huge.

You seem very concerned about what China wants and how China feels.

THey need to start being concerned about what we want and what we feel.


Our trade imbalance with China needs to be dramatically reduced, AT THE VERY LEAST.

 

[Flopper]

There is no way to tell whether Trump's actions just reflect his incompetence or signal a new direction in US foreign policy.

No trade negotiations in China takes place without the support of the Chinese Communist Party. Trump's break with a 40 year protocol in an unofficial recognition of Taiwan is a shot across the bow. Trump is thinking trade negotiations. The Communist Party will be thinking military action.

China regards Taiwan as a breakaway province that should one day be reunified with the mainland. If as president, Trump continues to provoke China with recognition of the ROC, China will respond probably with a military expansion in the South China Sea.

Thinking the US holds all the cards in dealing with China is foolish. 82% of China exports go to countries other than the US. Recent trade agreements between China and Australia, New Zealand, Pakistan, and the giant Asian trade pact will reduce dependence on the US even further. Trump's promised exit from the TPP may well allow China to supplant the US in that agreement.

Good luck on that. Non of those countries populations you listed in the TPP have even remotely the purchasing power or the consumer base that the US has. In fact no country comes even close. This is what makes America unique, the people have lots of money and there is a "must have" consumer culture that is ingrained from early childhood. The US certainly doesn't hold all the cards but it certainly has refused too use the best hand on the table, for too long.

Members of the TPP, Australia, New Zealand, Brunei, Canada, Chile, Malaysia, Mexico, Peru, Singapore, Japan Vietnam, and the United States are a unique blend of emerging markets and developed countries. If the US decides to walk out, China stands ready to replace the US as a major partner in that market. Although the TPP agreement is far from perfect, dropping out of that agreement will damage the US export capabilities in the future.

Like I said, non of those countries have the consumer market with the kind of average income that the US has. The entire world wants a piece of the action in the US. Many of the factories in countries like China, Canada and Mexico are set up by American entrepreneurs and companies who have laid off their own employees in return for lower wages,maxes, and regulations offered abroad. So this cooperation with the US has also helped build industries in these countries, who then turn around and compete with the US, by offering these same products and services to other countries. These idiotic one way trade deals are literally allowing countries to rape America.

Thanks to Trump, millions of American have become convinced that America's problems are caused by stupid trade negotiations with China. However, the fact is the United States does not have a trade agreement with China, neither a bilateral or a multilateral deal, much less a good one or a bad one. The two countries trade on simple baseline terms set by the WTO. When Trump says he wants to renegotiate our trade deal with China, he's talking about negotiating something that does not exist.

The US government and Chinese goverment don't do trade deals. Trade deals are done between US importers with Chinese exporters, sometimes producers, sometimes middle men exporters, and sometimes US subsidiaries operating in China. US importers pay a tax of a maximum of 17% depending on the goods. Since the Chinese do have distribution networks in the US, taxes on US imports from China are paid by US companies, not the Chinese producer or the Chinese government.

So what happens when we decide to punish US companies importing from China with a 35% tax? Do they start to buy from the US manufacturers? Only it those manufactures are the cheapest supplier. In most cases they will simply buy from another low cost producer abroad with no or low import tariffs. Large multinational companies with plants around the world with do an inventory swaps and avoid the tariffs completely. The net result is no new jobs produced in the US, just slightly higher prices.

Come on, you can't tell us that the arrangement the US has in these trade deals, is working for its companies or its workers. Our problems don't begin or end with disastrous trade deals, but they are indeed part of what has to be fixed, and a failed ideology.

Which trade deals? We don't have any trade agreements with China.

 

[Roudy]

Good luck on that. Non of those countries populations you listed in the TPP have even remotely the purchasing power or the consumer base that the US has. In fact no country comes even close. This is what makes America unique, the people have lots of money and there is a "must have" consumer culture that is ingrained from early childhood. The US certainly doesn't hold all the cards but it certainly has refused too use the best hand on the table, for too long.

Members of the TPP, Australia, New Zealand, Brunei, Canada, Chile, Malaysia, Mexico, Peru, Singapore, Japan Vietnam, and the United States are a unique blend of emerging markets and developed countries. If the US decides to walk out, China stands ready to replace the US as a major partner in that market. Although the TPP agreement is far from perfect, dropping out of that agreement will damage the US export capabilities in the future.

Like I said, non of those countries have the consumer market with the kind of average income that the US has. The entire world wants a piece of the action in the US. Many of the factories in countries like China, Canada and Mexico are set up by American entrepreneurs and companies who have laid off their own employees in return for lower wages,maxes, and regulations offered abroad. So this cooperation with the US has also helped build industries in these countries, who then turn around and compete with the US, by offering these same products and services to other countries. These idiotic one way trade deals are literally allowing countries to rape America.

Thanks to Trump, millions of American have become convinced that America's problems are caused by stupid trade negotiations with China. However, the fact is the United States does not have a trade agreement with China, neither a bilateral or a multilateral deal, much less a good one or a bad one. The two countries trade on simple baseline terms set by the WTO. When Trump says he wants to renegotiate our trade deal with China, he's talking about negotiating something that does not exist.

The US government and Chinese goverment don't do trade deals. Trade deals are done between US importers with Chinese exporters, sometimes producers, sometimes middle men exporters, and sometimes US subsidiaries operating in China. US importers pay a tax of a maximum of 17% depending on the goods. Since the Chinese do have distribution networks in the US, taxes on US imports from China are paid by US companies, not the Chinese producer or the Chinese government.

So what happens when we decide to punish US companies importing from China with a 35% tax? Do they start to buy from the US manufacturers? Only it those manufactures are the cheapest supplier. In most cases they will simply buy from another low cost producer abroad with no or low import tariffs. Large multinational companies with plants around the world with do an inventory swaps and avoid the tariffs completely. The net result is no new jobs produced in the US, just slightly higher prices.

Come on, you can't tell us that the arrangement the US has in these trade deals, is working for its companies or its workers. Our problems don't begin or end with disastrous trade deals, but they are indeed part of what has to be fixed, and a failed ideology.

Which trade deals? We don't have any trade agreements with China.

It was a one two combination...we had Bill and Hillary's NAFTA, and then they pushed for allowing China into the WTO. And now we have Obama pushing for the passing of the TPP, another Democratic Frankenstein trade deal that would have been the final nail for whatever was left of the US manufacturing industry.

Trump ran on having individual trade deals that could be negotiated to have more favorable terms for the US, and that's what he's planning on carrying out.

 

[Flopper]

Members of the TPP, Australia, New Zealand, Brunei, Canada, Chile, Malaysia, Mexico, Peru, Singapore, Japan Vietnam, and the United States are a unique blend of emerging markets and developed countries. If the US decides to walk out, China stands ready to replace the US as a major partner in that market. Although the TPP agreement is far from perfect, dropping out of that agreement will damage the US export capabilities in the future.

Like I said, non of those countries have the consumer market with the kind of average income that the US has. The entire world wants a piece of the action in the US. Many of the factories in countries like China, Canada and Mexico are set up by American entrepreneurs and companies who have laid off their own employees in return for lower wages,maxes, and regulations offered abroad. So this cooperation with the US has also helped build industries in these countries, who then turn around and compete with the US, by offering these same products and services to other countries. These idiotic one way trade deals are literally allowing countries to rape America.

Thanks to Trump, millions of American have become convinced that America's problems are caused by stupid trade negotiations with China. However, the fact is the United States does not have a trade agreement with China, neither a bilateral or a multilateral deal, much less a good one or a bad one. The two countries trade on simple baseline terms set by the WTO. When Trump says he wants to renegotiate our trade deal with China, he's talking about negotiating something that does not exist.

The US government and Chinese goverment don't do trade deals. Trade deals are done between US importers with Chinese exporters, sometimes producers, sometimes middle men exporters, and sometimes US subsidiaries operating in China. US importers pay a tax of a maximum of 17% depending on the goods. Since the Chinese do have distribution networks in the US, taxes on US imports from China are paid by US companies, not the Chinese producer or the Chinese government.

So what happens when we decide to punish US companies importing from China with a 35% tax? Do they start to buy from the US manufacturers? Only it those manufactures are the cheapest supplier. In most cases they will simply buy from another low cost producer abroad with no or low import tariffs. Large multinational companies with plants around the world with do an inventory swaps and avoid the tariffs completely. The net result is no new jobs produced in the US, just slightly higher prices.

Come on, you can't tell us that the arrangement the US has in these trade deals, is working for its companies or its workers. Our problems don't begin or end with disastrous trade deals, but they are indeed part of what has to be fixed, and a failed ideology.

Which trade deals? We don't have any trade agreements with China.

It was a one two combination...we had Bill and Hillary's NAFTA, and then they pushed for allowing China into the WTO. And now we have Obama pushing for the passing of the TPP, another Democratic Frankenstein trade deal that would have been the final nail for whatever was left of the US manufacturing industry.

Trump ran on having individual trade deals that could be negotiated to have more favorable terms for the US, and that's what he's planning on carrying out.

NAFTA was certainly not Bill and Hillary's. It was negotiated under both Reagan and H.W.Bush and signed by H.W. Bush at end of his term in 1992. It was ratified with the support of both Republicans and Democrats in 1993 and signed into law by Bill Clinton in 1993. It was widely accepted by Republicans in 1990's but given only lukewarm support by Democrats.

Throughout the Bush and most of the Obama administration, Republicans continued to support NAFTA. It wasn't till Trump, that NAFTA became a dirty word. However disregarding all the rhetoric, NAFTA did create more jobs than loses and was responsible for much of the growth in the 1990s.

Where job growth and economic growth in the economy due to NAFTA is hard to measure because it's spread over so many sectors, job loss is easy to measure because it occurred mostly in the manufacturing sector. As far as TPP goes, you might actually read a bit of it instead of just listening to political hacks like Trump who have obviously never even looked at it. The fact that Trump supports the idea of single nation negotiations just shows how far out of touch Trump is. World trade today is biased against single nation agreements. Trump must have taken a world trade course back in the 60's and is just now reading his text because that's where he's at.