Time for Moderates to grow a set of balls

[saveliberty]

Many people, regardless of political affiliation don't get a fact, now you expect them to grasp an analogy?

Fixed. Yer welcum.

I respect your differing opinion, but have to neg you for altering a quote.

 

[saveliberty]

I have a degree in Economics (among other things) and have studied Russian's Early 90's Hyperinflation problem for the World Bank, Cato Institute, and Heritage Foundation.

OH SNAP!!!!!!!!

You've offered bare assertions that I'm clueless, without proving JACK. Nice try though. Next?

Must be one of those totally surprised economists when the economy doesn't go as planned.

 

[Vanquish]

Are you accusing George Bush of lying to get what he wanted?

Nah, we're accusing you of lying... Because, well, you are lying.

Since you seem to like analogies...here's one about the surplus:

The Clintons had a credit card with $1000 on it. Clinton went to Hillary with a plan for their household budget. They agreed to use that budget for a year. By the end of the year, they'd saved more money than they had spent. That money went into their bank account, but wasn't used to pay off the credit card. Interest still accrued.

The way some people want to "debunk" the idea of the Clinton surplus is by saying the debt would have gone down. Just because you have a surplus doesnt mean it gets applied.

BTW, here's an article at The New Republic crediting Republicans with the surplus. http://www.tnr.com/blog/jonathan-chait/76709/who-created-the-1990s-surplus-clinton-or-the-gop
The non-existent surplus.

 

[saveliberty]

Are you accusing George Bush of lying to get what he wanted?

Nah, we're accusing you of lying... Because, well, you are lying.

Since you seem to like analogies...here's one about the surplus:

The Clintons had a credit card with $1000 on it. Clinton went to Hillary with a plan for their household budget. They agreed to use that budget for a year. By the end of the year, they'd saved more money than they had spent. That money went into their bank account, but wasn't used to pay off the credit card. Interest still accrued.

The way some people want to "debunk" the idea of the Clinton surplus is by saying the debt would have gone down. Just because you have a surplus doesnt mean it gets applied.

BTW, here's an article at The New Republic crediting Republicans with the surplus. Who Created The 1990s Surplus, Clinton Or The GOP? | The New Republic
The non-existent surplus.

Your understanding of economics my be vast, but your understanding of accounting is bad. Care to show us where this off the books surplus went to?

 

[rightwinger]

Are you accusing George Bush of lying to get what he wanted?

Nah, we're accusing you of lying... Because, well, you are lying.

Amid Deficit, A Look Back At Bush's Surplus, Tax Cuts / ideastream - Northeast Ohio Public Radio, Television and Multiple Media

Bush described the reductions as giving extra federal funds back to taxpayers.

"We recognize, loud and clear, the surplus is not the government's money," he said. "The surplus is the people's money. And we ought to trust them with their own money."


So did Bush lie about a suplus when he passed the first round of tax cuts?

 

[Vanquish]

Nah, we're accusing you of lying... Because, well, you are lying.

Since you seem to like analogies...here's one about the surplus:

The Clintons had a credit card with $1000 on it. Clinton went to Hillary with a plan for their household budget. They agreed to use that budget for a year. By the end of the year, they'd saved more money than they had spent. That money went into their bank account, but wasn't used to pay off the credit card. Interest still accrued.

The way some people want to "debunk" the idea of the Clinton surplus is by saying the debt would have gone down. Just because you have a surplus doesnt mean it gets applied.

BTW, here's an article at The New Republic crediting Republicans with the surplus. Who Created The 1990s Surplus, Clinton Or The GOP? | The New Republic
The non-existent surplus.

Your understanding of economics my be vast, but your understanding of accounting is bad. Care to show us where this off the books surplus went to?

Care to show me where and when it was applied?

 

[saveliberty]

Since you seem to like analogies...here's one about the surplus:

The Clintons had a credit card with $1000 on it. Clinton went to Hillary with a plan for their household budget. They agreed to use that budget for a year. By the end of the year, they'd saved more money than they had spent. That money went into their bank account, but wasn't used to pay off the credit card. Interest still accrued.

The way some people want to "debunk" the idea of the Clinton surplus is by saying the debt would have gone down. Just because you have a surplus doesnt mean it gets applied.

BTW, here's an article at The New Republic crediting Republicans with the surplus. Who Created The 1990s Surplus, Clinton Or The GOP? | The New Republic
The non-existent surplus.

Your understanding of economics my be vast, but your understanding of accounting is bad. Care to show us where this off the books surplus went to?

Care to show me where and when it was applied?

Your the one claiming its existence, let's see some legwork from you.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Since you seem to like analogies...here's one about the surplus:

The Clintons had a credit card with $1000 on it. Clinton went to Hillary with a plan for their household budget. They agreed to use that budget for a year. By the end of the year, they'd saved more money than they had spent. That money went into their bank account, but wasn't used to pay off the credit card. Interest still accrued.

Really? So where is this "bank account?'

Fact is, under federal law, any surplus MUST be used for debt service. There is no "bank account" and there was no surplus. There was nothing but cooking the books.

Here is the "Clinton Surplus." (From the Heritage Foundation - who depended on your sage advice for every word - natch!)

{If current policies remain unchanged, the federal government will collect $27.6 trillion in revenue between 2002 and 2011 while spending $22.6 trillion. This will result in a surplus of $5 trillion over 10 years. And since the total federal debt held by the public is less than $3.2 trillion (according to the Clinton Administration's own estimates), the federal government will be left to decide what to do with a minimum of $1.8 trillion in excess cash on hand.}

Growing Surplus Shrinking Debt The Compelling Case For Tax Cuts Now | The Heritage Foundation

So, here in 2011, we have an excess cash problem? Oh wait - NONE OF THAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED - just as Oddball pointed out at the start - there was a PROJECTED surplus - no actual surplus. A projected future value was calculated based on Pollyanna data sets. Tell me, Mr. Economist; what is the NPV of the Obama debt regressed to 2001 using the current inflation rate as the discount?

 

[Uncensored2008]

Bush described the reductions as giving extra federal funds back to taxpayers.

"We recognize, loud and clear, the surplus is not the government's money," he said. "The surplus is the people's money. And we ought to trust them with their own money."

Bush walked off with a $10 trillion debt - rational people don't look to him as the authority.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Care to show me where and when it was applied?

That's the point, you can't apply that which exists nowhere save a spreadsheet.

 

[saveliberty]

Vanquish vanished.

 

[Oddball]

.]

Bill Clinton.....actually ran a surplus...

The big lie.

That mythical "surplus" was projected from 1998 to occur in 2002.

You mean there was no actual surplus? That it was all made up?

But that was the reason George Bush gave to cut taxes once he became President. "The surplus belongs to the people"

Are you accusing George Bush of lying to get what he wanted?

Well, there you have it....The admission that there really wasn't a surplus in 1998, or at any other time during the Clintoon regime.

Thanks for that inadvertent moment of swerving into the facts.

 

[The T]

Are you accusing George Bush of lying to get what he wanted?

Nah, we're accusing you of lying... Because, well, you are lying.

Amid Deficit, A Look Back At Bush's Surplus, Tax Cuts / ideastream - Northeast Ohio Public Radio, Television and Multiple Media

Bush described the reductions as giving extra federal funds back to taxpayers.

"We recognize, loud and clear, the surplus is not the government's money," he said. "The surplus is the people's money. And we ought to trust them with their own money."


So did Bush lie about a suplus when he passed the first round of tax cuts?

They got spent. Next question.

 

[rightwinger]

The big lie.

That mythical "surplus" was projected from 1998 to occur in 2002.

You mean there was no actual surplus? That it was all made up?

But that was the reason George Bush gave to cut taxes once he became President. "The surplus belongs to the people"

Are you accusing George Bush of lying to get what he wanted?

Well, there you have it....The admission that there really wasn't a surplus in 1998, or at any other time during the Clintoon regime.

Thanks for that inadvertent moment of swerving into the facts.

Republicans can't have it both ways....

Either Clinton left a surplus
or George Bush lied about there being a surplus to justify his tax cut

So ...which is it?

 

[rightwinger]

Nah, we're accusing you of lying... Because, well, you are lying.

Amid Deficit, A Look Back At Bush's Surplus, Tax Cuts / ideastream - Northeast Ohio Public Radio, Television and Multiple Media

Bush described the reductions as giving extra federal funds back to taxpayers.

"We recognize, loud and clear, the surplus is not the government's money," he said. "The surplus is the people's money. And we ought to trust them with their own money."


So did Bush lie about a suplus when he passed the first round of tax cuts?

They got spent. Next question.

What got spent?

How did Bush justify a ten year tax cut based on a non-existent surplus?

 

[Contumacious]

You mean there was no actual surplus? That it was all made up?

But that was the reason George Bush gave to cut taxes once he became President. "The surplus belongs to the people"

Are you accusing George Bush of lying to get what he wanted?

Well, there you have it....The admission that there really wasn't a surplus in 1998, or at any other time during the Clintoon regime.

Thanks for that inadvertent moment of swerving into the facts.

Republicans can't have it both ways....

Either Clinton left a surplus
or George Bush lied about there being a surplus to justify his tax cut

So ...which is it?

Last surplus : Left by president Andrew Jackson 1837.

.

 

[Uncensored2008]

What got spent?

How did Bush justify a ten year tax cut based on a non-existent surplus?

It's amusing how you leftists suddenly hold Bush up as the standard to meet.

Bush spent 8 years spending like a drunken monkey. There is no justification for his spending. Dear Leader spends at twice the rate even Bush did.

 

[The T]

Amid Deficit, A Look Back At Bush's Surplus, Tax Cuts / ideastream - Northeast Ohio Public Radio, Television and Multiple Media

Bush described the reductions as giving extra federal funds back to taxpayers.

"We recognize, loud and clear, the surplus is not the government's money," he said. "The surplus is the people's money. And we ought to trust them with their own money."


So did Bush lie about a suplus when he passed the first round of tax cuts?

They got spent. Next question.

What got spent?

How did Bush justify a ten year tax cut based on a non-existent surplus?

WHAT president spends unless Congress lets him?

*Moron*

 

[Oddball]

You mean there was no actual surplus? That it was all made up?

But that was the reason George Bush gave to cut taxes once he became President. "The surplus belongs to the people"

Are you accusing George Bush of lying to get what he wanted?

Well, there you have it....The admission that there really wasn't a surplus in 1998, or at any other time during the Clintoon regime.

Thanks for that inadvertent moment of swerving into the facts.

Republicans can't have it both ways....

Either Clinton left a surplus
or George Bush lied about there being a surplus to justify his tax cut

So ...which is it?

1) I'm not a republican.

2) Again, Bubba left no surplus...It was projected out from 1998, under the *ahem* assumption that the same taxing and spending policies remained static, which they certainly didn't.

3) The economic model and projections made back in 1992, by Ross Perot (using OMB and GAO numbers), also had the federal budget balancing all by itself, and briefly going into surplus, assuming the relatively slow 3% growth rate of the day and federal taxing & spending policy that reamined static...Which, aside from better growth numbers and the Clintoon tax increase, it largely did.

4) That's not trying to have it both ways...Those are the facts.

 

[Vanquish]

Nah, I wasn't Vanquished. I had an eye appointment, then court. When I have the time I'll scroll back.

Sorry I dont have the time to sit at a keyboard all day like some of you commandos.