Thread for Zionists who Deny the Existence of the Palestinian Christians and Muslims

[montelatici]

"Coming back to the Bedouins, they are as ancient as the land itself and can trace their movement in the region over generations and even back to biblical times, as they are often referenced in, or even central to, narratives of biblical myth The indigenous Palestinians are an amalgamation of all the people, civilizations, tribes, and religious groups escaping the persecution of powers that left their imprint on the landscape. However, we must maintain that the original and most ancient inhabitants of Palestine are the Canaanites, while everyone else is a historical passer-by in the land. Today’s Palestinians are not pure Canaanites, for no one can assert a purity of lineage, but at the same time this does not mean that they have no critical and sustained presence on the land to claim the ownership of it. The Bedouins of the Negev are rightfully living on their land, and the Israeli state, through its apartheid laws and policies, can’t alter this fact. For anyone desiring “peace” in the region, the starting point is the setting aside of the biblical text and the theology of dispossession, and the recognition in word and deed of the Palestinians as indigenous people of the land. Then, and only then, can we have a discussion of what can be done to solve the specific context emerging from the theology of dispossession."

The Indigenous Palestinians | Harvard International Review

 

[rylah]

Arabian nomad tribes are 'indigenous' to Palestine?

 

[rylah]

The Samaritans and Jews and those that had already converted to Paganism, converted to Christianity. By 325 all followed the Nicene Creed.

I guess all those Jews and Samaritans who revolted against the Byzantine rule were somehow 'resurrected' from the dead.

At that time Jews created a lunar calendar, wrote the Jerusalem Talmud and even had an argument with the Babylonian diaspora over established schools of law in the diaspora and in the land.

You mean the Jews who were recruited outside of Palestine who allied themselves with the Persians? Jerusalem was off-limits to non-Christians under Roman/Byzantine rule. Somehow the facts always undercut the Zionist propaganda. The Jews, Samaritans and Pagans that remained in Palestine converted to Christianity.

Montelatici, do You even understand how off Your time-line is?
You were referring to occasions 300 years apart.
The Jews who took part in recapturing Jerusalem with Persia were from Galilee, where the Jerusalem Talmud was written.

Pay attention:

325 The Nicene Creed
359 Hillel the Nasi of Sanhedrin in Galilee establishes the lunisolar calendar for the Jews in the diaspora.
363 Julian orders to rebuild the Temple, abolishes special Jewish taxes and permits Jews to repopulate and build in Jerusalem.
363 Galilee earthquake
438 Eudocia allows Jews to pray at the Temple Mount
450 The Jerusalem Talmud completed in the school of Yohanan bar Nafha in the Galilee.
484 Samaritan Revolt

and only then in 613-614 the Jewish revolt against the Byzantine Empire and the capture of Jerusalem by Persians and Jews of Galilee lead by Benjamin of Tiberius.

 

[rylah]

And I had the doubt that this thread wasn't another attempt to erase Jews from the land and history.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

The Samaritans and Jews and those that had already converted to Paganism, converted to Christianity. By 325 all followed the Nicene Creed.

I guess all those Jews and Samaritans who revolted against the Byzantine rule were somehow 'resurrected' from the dead.

At that time Jews created a lunar calendar, wrote the Jerusalem Talmud and even had an argument with the Babylonian diaspora over established schools of law in the diaspora and in the land.

You mean the Jews who were recruited outside of Palestine who allied themselves with the Persians? Jerusalem was off-limits to non-Christians under Roman/Byzantine rule. Somehow the facts always undercut the Zionist propaganda. The Jews, Samaritans and Pagans that remained in Palestine converted to Christianity.

Montelatici, do You even understand how off Your time-line is?
You were referring to occasions 300 years apart.
The Jews who took part in recapturing Jerusalem with Persia were from Galilee, where the Jerusalem Talmud was written.

Pay attention:

325 The Nicene Creed
359 Hillel the Nasi of Sanhedrin in Galilee establishes the lunisolar calendar for the Jews in the diaspora.
363 Julian orders to rebuild the Temple, abolishes special Jewish taxes and permits Jews to repopulate and build in Jerusalem.
363 Galilee earthquake
438 Eudocia allows Jews to pray at the Temple Mount
450 The Jerusalem Talmud completed in the school of Yohanan bar Nafha in the Galilee.
484 Samaritan Revolt

and only then in 613-614 the Jewish revolt against the Byzantine Empire and the capture of Jerusalem by Persians and Jews of Galilee lead by Benjamin of Tiberius.

Haha, according to monte, Everyone in Palestine had already converted to Christianity and the Nicene Creed by that point in time, while You just showed that there were Jews in the Land long after that. In fact, there were always Jews living in the Land.

 

[montelatici]

Now the facts, as reported by the Mandatory (Britain) in the first report to the LoN. You people can continue to make things up, but the facts are documented in official source documents.

"There are now in the whole of Palestine hardly 700,000 people, a population much less than that of the province of Gallilee alone in the time of Christ.* (*See Sir George Adam Smith "Historical Geography of the Holy Land", Chap. 20.) Of these 235,000 live in the larger towns, 465,000 in the smaller towns and villages. Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.

The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000. Almost all have entered Palestine during the last 40 years. Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews. In the following 30 years a few hundreds came to Palestine."

Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations/Balfour Declaration text (30 July 1921)

 

[rylah]

A mere vague estimation of the year 1850 by an entity that has been only created in 1920.
We have already discussed this in great detail, Your 'handful of Jews', even according to Palestinians sources, was in the thousands between 7,000-15,000 people.

The narrative of 'rights=numbers' is misleading, and works only in favor of the Arab Muslim colonialists and others who managed to weed out the indigenous population. It also conveniently 'forgets' the wars that occurred just 100 years prior to the 1st Zionist immigration.

 

[Ria_Longhorn]

No, you are using Google translate and it is incorrect. Eusebio, of course, mentions Palestinians in his work. He was Palestinian.

Wrong. Eusebius does not mention any "Palestinians" in his work, History of The Martyrs In Palestine -- but he does mention Jews:
"There is a large city in the land of Palestine, teeming with population, of which all the inhabitants were Jews. It is called in the Aramaic tongue Lud, and in the Greek it is called Diocaesarea."

Wrong. The title is "De martyribus Palestinae". The "ae" suffix denotes the plural in Latin. The correct translation is "Palestinian Martyrs" or in modern Latin languages, like Italian "I martiri palestinesi"
"los mártires palestinos" where the adjective's tense has to correspond to the noun. In any case the martyrs in Palestine would still be palestinians.

The work mentions Palestinians (martyrs) numerous times.

Guy, you're still with this nonsense?
Where does Eusebius mention "Palestinians"?

Eusebius of Caesarea: The History of the Martyrs in Palestine (1861).  Translated by William Cureton.

 

[Ria_Longhorn]

The Samaritans and Jews and those that had already converted to Paganism, converted to Christianity. By 325 all followed the Nicene Creed.

Even these 4th Century CE Jews from Lud?

"There is a large city in the land of Palestine, teeming with population, of which all the inhabitants were Jews. It is called in the Aramaic tongue Lud, and in the Greek it is called Diocaesarea."

Eusebius of Caesarea: The History of the Martyrs in Palestine (1861).  Translated by William Cureton.

 

[montelatici]

Palestinesi = Palestinians. English translation is innaccurate.

"Martiri palestinesi nell’Occidente latino."

Martiri palestinesi nell’Occidente latino. I casi della Passio Theodosiae virginis (BHL 8090) e della Passio Romani monachi (BHL 7298)

 

[montelatici]

A mere vague estimation of the year 1850 by an entity that has been only created in 1920.
We have already discussed this in great detail, Your 'handful of Jews', even according to Palestinians sources, was in the thousands between 7,000-15,000 people.

The narrative of 'rights=numbers' is misleading, and works only in favor of the Arab Muslim colonialists and others who managed to weed out the indigenous population. It also conveniently 'forgets' the wars that occurred just 100 years prior to the 1st Zionist immigration.

The colonists are the Jews. They admitted as much. The Muslims and Christians are the native people, get it straight, the Jews came from elsewhere and colonized the place.

"Successful Jewish Colonization Will Extend Beyond Palestine Frontier, Weizmann Tells Actions Committ

“Due to the success of our colonization work in Palestine proper, it is possible that eventually our colonization work will be extended beyond the frontiers of Transjordania. It is true that the Palestine government has not taken a clear stand in regard to its economic policy, but well founded demands have every prospect of being agreed to. A great deal has been achieved during the last months,” Dr. Weizmann said.

The contemplated trip to the United States of Dr. Chaim Weizmann, president of the World Zionist Organization, the continuation of his efforts while in America to extend the Jewish Agency through his negotiations with the Marshall group, the possibilities of extending Jewish colonization work outside of the present Palestine frontiers, including. Transjordania and certain parts of Syria, were the main features around which the deliberations centered."

Successful Jewish Colonization Will Extend Beyond Palestine Frontier, Weizmann Tells Actions Committ

 

[rylah]

And now the CONTEXT:

Agreement Between the King of Hijaz and Khadim al-Haramayn as-Sharifayn, Emir Feisal Ibn al-Hussein al-Hashemi, and the President of the World Zionist Organization, Dr. Chaim Weizmann (January 3, 1919)


January 3, 1919

His Royal Highness the Emir Feisal, representing and acting on behalf of the Arab Kingdom of Hedjaz, and Dr. Chaim Weizmann, representing and acting on behalf of the Zionist Organisation, mindful of the racial kinship and ancient bonds existing between the Arabs and the Jewish people, and realising that the surest means of working out the consummation of their national aspirations is through the closest possible collaboration in the development of the Arab State and Palestine, and being desirous further of confirming the good understanding which exists between them, have agreed upon the following Articles:

ARTICLE I

The Arab State and Palestine in all their relations and undertakings shall be controlled by the most cordial goodwill and understanding, and to this end Arab and Jewish duly accredited agents shall be established and maintained in the respective territories.

ARTICLE II

Immediately following the completion of the deliberations of the Peace Conference, the definite boundaries between the Arab State and Palestine shall be determined by a Commission to be agreed upon by the parties hereto.

ARTICLE III

In the establishment of the Constitution and Administration of Palestine all such measures shall be adopted as will afford the fullest guarantees for carrying into effect the British Government's Declaration of the 2d of November, 1917.

ARTICLE IV

All necessary measures shall be taken to encourage stimulate immigration of Jews into Palestine on a large scale, and as quickly as possible to settle Jewish immigrants upon the land through closer settlement and intensive cultivation of the soil. In taking such measures the Arab peasant and tenant farmers shall be protected in their rights, and shall be assisted in forwarding their economic development.

ARTICLE V

No regulation nor law shall be made prohibiting or interfering in any way with the free exercise of religion; and further the free exercise and enjoyment of religious profession and worship without discrimination or preference shall forever be allowed. No religious test shall ever be required for the exercise of civil or political rights.

ARTICLE VI

The Mohammedan Holy Places shall be under Mohammedan control.

ARTICLE VII

The Zionist Organisation proposes to send to Palestine a Commission of experts to make a survey of the economic possibilities of the country, and to report upon the best means for its development. The Zionist Organisation will place the aforementioned Commission at the disposal of the Arab State for the purpose of a survey of the economic possibilities of the Arab State and to report upon the best means for its development. The Zionist Organisation will use its best efforts to assist the Arab State in providing the means for developing the natural resources and economic possibilities thereof.

ARTICLE VIII

The parties hereto agree to act in complete accord and harmony on all matters embraced herein before the Peace Congress.

ARTICLE IX

Any matters of dispute which may arise between the contracting parties shall be referred to the British Government for arbitration. Given under our hand at London, England, the third day of January, one thousand nine hundred and nineteen.

Chaim Weizmann
Feisal Ibn al-Hussein.

Islam and Zionism before the Wahhabi Fitnah Spread

 

[montelatici]

And now the CONTEXT:

Agreement Between the King of Hijaz and Khadim al-Haramayn as-Sharifayn, Emir Feisal Ibn al-Hussein al-Hashemi, and the President of the World Zionist Organization, Dr. Chaim Weizmann (January 3, 1919)


January 3, 1919

His Royal Highness the Emir Feisal, representing and acting on behalf of the Arab Kingdom of Hedjaz, and Dr. Chaim Weizmann, representing and acting on behalf of the Zionist Organisation, mindful of the racial kinship and ancient bonds existing between the Arabs and the Jewish people, and realising that the surest means of working out the consummation of their national aspirations is through the closest possible collaboration in the development of the Arab State and Palestine, and being desirous further of confirming the good understanding which exists between them, have agreed upon the following Articles:

ARTICLE I

The Arab State and Palestine in all their relations and undertakings shall be controlled by the most cordial goodwill and understanding, and to this end Arab and Jewish duly accredited agents shall be established and maintained in the respective territories.

ARTICLE II

Immediately following the completion of the deliberations of the Peace Conference, the definite boundaries between the Arab State and Palestine shall be determined by a Commission to be agreed upon by the parties hereto.

ARTICLE III

In the establishment of the Constitution and Administration of Palestine all such measures shall be adopted as will afford the fullest guarantees for carrying into effect the British Government's Declaration of the 2d of November, 1917.

ARTICLE IV

All necessary measures shall be taken to encourage stimulate immigration of Jews into Palestine on a large scale, and as quickly as possible to settle Jewish immigrants upon the land through closer settlement and intensive cultivation of the soil. In taking such measures the Arab peasant and tenant farmers shall be protected in their rights, and shall be assisted in forwarding their economic development.

ARTICLE V

No regulation nor law shall be made prohibiting or interfering in any way with the free exercise of religion; and further the free exercise and enjoyment of religious profession and worship without discrimination or preference shall forever be allowed. No religious test shall ever be required for the exercise of civil or political rights.

ARTICLE VI

The Mohammedan Holy Places shall be under Mohammedan control.

ARTICLE VII

The Zionist Organisation proposes to send to Palestine a Commission of experts to make a survey of the economic possibilities of the country, and to report upon the best means for its development. The Zionist Organisation will place the aforementioned Commission at the disposal of the Arab State for the purpose of a survey of the economic possibilities of the Arab State and to report upon the best means for its development. The Zionist Organisation will use its best efforts to assist the Arab State in providing the means for developing the natural resources and economic possibilities thereof.

ARTICLE VIII

The parties hereto agree to act in complete accord and harmony on all matters embraced herein before the Peace Congress.

ARTICLE IX

Any matters of dispute which may arise between the contracting parties shall be referred to the British Government for arbitration. Given under our hand at London, England, the third day of January, one thousand nine hundred and nineteen.

Chaim Weizmann
Feisal Ibn al-Hussein.

Islam and Zionism before the Wahhabi Fitnah Spread

What does the Kingdom of Hejaz have to do with Palestine?

The Hashemite Kingdom of Hejaz was established 1915 and was conquered by the Sauds in 1925 and became a part of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. It was nowhere near Palestine. It would be like Mexico giving Maryland to the Gypsies. LOL

 

[montelatici]

In any case, the European Jews were planning to colonize Palestine long before the Balfour Declaration. They announced their plans in the New York Times in 1899.

Zionists plan to colonize Palestine in 1899 NY Times

An article about a Conference of Zionists published on July 20, 1899 in the New York Times depicts how the Conference sought to “colonize Palestine” and discussed the purchasing of land with English Zionists.
World Bulletin/News Desk

An article about a Conference of Zionists published on July 20, 1899 in the New York Times expresses that the Zionists “will colonize Palestine.”

The article explains that the conference discussed a paper from the English Zionist Federation “proposing the re-establishment of Judea as an independent State, suggesting the purchase of the Maccabean sites in Palestine, and the beginning of the work by the establishment of a Jewish colony and a Jewish Agricultural College there.”

It further clarifies that “The site to be purchased comprises about fifty acres, six miles from a station on the railroad between Jappa and Jerusalem, and within sight of the sea and a large stretch of the Palestinian coast.”

It notes that English Zionists have gathered 2,500 dollars in the currency of the period and request that quantity from the American Zionists.

The article also explains that “On motion of Dr. Wise, the Federation voted $100 as the nucleus of the required fund of $2,500, the remainder to be raised by subscriptions from the 125 societies and individuals, both Jews and Gentiles. A general appeal to the public will be made.”

It also conveys that delegates will be elected at the Zionist meeting in Baltimore.

The straightforward and comfortable manner with which the colonization is pursued is indicative how, before having to be concerned with the image of Zionism and public relations, Zionist leaders depicted their movement as a colonial mission during a time in which European nations were colonial powers. "

Zionists plan to colonize Palestine in 1899 NY Times - World Bulletin

 

[rylah]

What does the Kingdom of Hejaz have to do with Palestine?

Indeed what did another Arabian King have to do with Palestine, and why do Palestinians still identify as Syrians?

Faisal I bin Hussein bin Ali al-Hashimi, (Arabic: فيصل بن الحسين بن علي الهاشمي‎‎, Fayṣal al-Awwal ibn al-Ḥusayn ibn ‘Alī al-Hāshimī; 20 May 1885[1][2][5] – 8 September 1933) was King of the Arab Kingdom of Syria or Greater Syria in 1920, and was King of Iraq from 23 August 1921 to 1933. He was a member of the Hashemite dynasty.

 

[montelatici]

What does the Kingdom of Hejaz have to do with Palestine?

Indeed what did another Arabian King have to do with Palestine, and why do Palestinians still identify as Syrians?

Faisal I bin Hussein bin Ali al-Hashimi, (Arabic: فيصل بن الحسين بن علي الهاشمي‎‎, Fayṣal al-Awwal ibn al-Ḥusayn ibn ‘Alī al-Hāshimī; 20 May 1885[1][2][5] – 8 September 1933) was King of the Arab Kingdom of Syria or Greater Syria in 1920, and was King of Iraq from 23 August 1921 to 1933. He was a member of the Hashemite dynasty.

The Hashemite King of the Hejaz had nothing to do with Palestine. As this documentary from the lat 1800s shows. No Hashemites anywhere.

 

[rylah]

No Hashemites in Palestine in 1896?
Well I have good news for the Jordanian king, the mufti and the Syrians in Palestine.

 

[montelatici]

No Hashemites in Palestine in 1896?
Well I have good news for the Jordanian king, the mufti and the Syrians in Palestine.

There are no Syrians in Palestine, there are Palestinians in Palestine. As far as the Muftis, they were the spiritual leaders of the Palestinian Muslims, the Christian Palestinians were led by the Orthodox Patriarch, though the Latin Archbishop had substantial power. You are just making a fool of yourself, you are trying to create an alternative history, which the Zionists were able to do in the past when the internet was not around, now the facts from source documentation are easily retrievable. You will always lose trying to promulgate the old propaganda.

 

[rylah]

No Hashemites in Palestine in 1896?
Well I have good news for the Jordanian king, the mufti and the Syrians in Palestine.

There are no Syrians in Palestine, there are Palestinians in Palestine. As far as the Muftis, they were the spiritual leaders of the Palestinian Muslims, the Christian Palestinians were led by the Orthodox Patriarch, though the Latin Archbishop had substantial power. You are just making a fool of yourself, you are trying to create an alternative history, which the Zionists were able to do in the past when the internet was not around, now the facts from source documentation are easily retrievable. You will always lose trying to promulgate the old propaganda.

There were not just Syrians, Arabians, Greeks, Italians and many more. But the all identified as Syrians. Indeed the documentation is available:

1 . We consider Palestine as part of Arab Syria as it has never been separated from it at any time. We are connected with it by national, religious, linguistic, natural, economic and geographic bonds.

2. The Declaration made by M. Pichon, Minister for Foreig Affairs for France, that France had rights in our country based on the desires and aspirations of the inhabitants has no foundation and we reject all the declarations made in his speech of 29th December 1918, as our wishes and aspirations are only in Arab unity and complete independence.

3. In view of the above we desire that one district Southern Syria or Palestine should not be separated from the Independent Arab Syrian Government and to be free from all foreign influence and protection.

4. In accordance with the rule laid down by President Wilson and approved by most of the Great Powers we consider that every promise or treaty concluded in respect of our country and its future as null and void and reject the same.

5. The Government of the country will apply for help to its friend Great Britain in case of need for the improvement and development of the country provided that this will not affect its independence and Arab unity in any way and will keep good relations with the Allied Powers. 78

The Palestine Conference also decided to send a delegation to Damascus 'to inform Arab patriots there of the decision to call Palestine Southern Syria and unite it with Northern Syria '.79

Another delegation of three was named 'as possible representatives to go to Paris'. 80

The decisions of the Conference were presented in writing to the British, French, Italian and Spanish representatives in Jerusalem. It was apparent that the young elements, with the help of Palestinian pressure from outside, prevailed on the Conference. Before adjourning, the Conference agreed to meet again at Nablus three months hence, but failed to elect an executive Committee to the Conference.

First Palestinian Arab Congress

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Stop lying

 

[montelatici]

You are the liar.

"The third congress was held in Haifa in December 1920. The forty-eight delegates elected an executive committee (the Arab Executive), with a permanent secretariat based in Jerusalem; Musa Kazim al-Husayni headed it. The scion of a leading Jerusalem family, he had been removed by the British as mayor after riots in the spring of 1920. The congress and executive committee were dominated by middle-aged men from ranking Muslim and Christian landowning and merchant families, but younger, more radical politicians also participated—those who had returned home from Damascus in July 1920, after the French had overthrown Amir Faisal and established their mandate over Syria. In Palestine, a civil administration was established under Herbert Samuel, a British Zionist. The congress's resolutions omitted references to unity with Syria, but maintained firm opposition to Zionism, insisting that Palestine gain its independence as an Arab state. The resolutions appealed to the British sense of justice and fair play, in the hope that the pro-Zionist policies could be modified."

Palestinian Arab Congresses - Dictionary definition of Palestinian Arab Congresses | Encyclopedia.com: FREE online dictionary