The United States IS a Christian Nation

[AllieBaba]

When you can be killed or thrown in jail for not dressing to the Islam dress code, you're in a theocracy.

When you can be killed for apostacy, you're in a theocracy.

But if you have the right to convert, the right to scoff at any religion, and the right to be proud of your religion and still move forward politically and professionally, you're not.

 

[Gurdari]

Actually, our democracy is based upon BIBLICAL tenets. Hence "all men created equal" by GOD.....

And we have separation of church and state thanks to CHRISTIANS, i.e., the BAPTISTS, who felt strongly that in order to protect FREEDOM OF RELIGION it was necessary.

Haha, where does it say "all men created equal" in the Bible?

Before or after the rules governing the treatment of slaves?

Which makes me wonder, does God still believe in slavery?
Or did he change his mind about it (careful... if he did, he ain't perfect)

 

[AllieBaba]

Jesus says it, in a variety of ways, a variety of times.

 

[AllieBaba]

And slavery in biblical times was a world different from slavery as Americans understand it. Slaves had rights, including the right to own property. And Jews were told to release them every so many years. (7?)

 

[Gurdari]

And slavery in biblical times was a world different from slavery as Americans understand it. Slaves had rights, including the right to own property. And Jews were told to release them every so many years. (7?)

So... they were slaves, and back to my question: Does God still approve? Or did he change his mind?

 

[Gurdari]

Jesus says it, in a variety of ways, a variety of times.

I heard Jesus never actually says he is the son of God, or that he is God either...

 

[Care4all]

Christians were a huge part of the underground railroad, and in speaking out against slavery and as abolisionists...lest we forget...

 

[Gurdari]

And slavery in biblical times was a world different from slavery as Americans understand it. Slaves had rights, including the right to own property. And Jews were told to release them every so many years. (7?)

We're talking about owning humans, right?
What is the 'world of difference' you referred to?

 

[Gurdari]

Christian were a huge part of the underground railroad, and in speaking out against slavery and as abolisionists...lest we forget...

So, they basically disobeyed their God? Christians were slave owners too... so-called I assume, but each person is pretty sure THEY have the right kind of faith, non?

 

[Care4all]

Jesus says it, in a variety of ways, a variety of times.

I heard Jesus never actually says he is the son of God, or that he is God either...

yes, He does say it....

 

[Gurdari]

where?

 

[Care4all]

Christian were a huge part of the underground railroad, and in speaking out against slavery and as abolisionists...lest we forget...

So, they basically disobeyed their God? Christians were slave owners too... so-called I assume, but each person is pretty sure THEY have the right kind of faith, non?

yes, Christians failed....they fell greatly short of God....they sinned, however you want to put it....

care

 

[AllieBaba]

where?

You profess to know all about the bible, I'm sure you know where he says it.

 

[Care4all]

where?

here are just a few passages that cover it imo....

"Hear O Israel: the Lord our God, the Lord is one." ( Mark 12:29)

"I and the Father are one." ( John 10:30)

"I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you know me, you will know my Father also." ( John 14:6-7)

But Jesus answered them, 'My Father is working still, and I am still working.' This was why the Jews sought all the more to kill him, because he not only broke the sabbath, but also called God his own Father, making himself equal with God. ( John 5:16-18)

"Whoever hates me hates my Father also." ( John 15:23)

''I tell you the truth. Before Abraham was born I AM. ''John 8:58''

"If I am not doing the works of my Father, then do not believe me; but if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me and I am in the Father." ( John 10:37-38)

"Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority; but the Father who dwells in me does his works." ( John 14:10)

"Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing on his own, but only what he sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, the Son does likewise. The Father loves the Son and shows him all that he himself is doing; and he will show him greater works than these, so that you will be astonished." ( John 5:19-20)

"Call no one your father on earth, for you have one Father - the one in heaven. Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one instructor, the Messiah." ( Matthew 23:9)

"The Father judges no one but has given all judgment to the Son, so that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Anyone who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him." ( John 5:22-23)

"If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now I am here. I did not come on my own, but he sent me." ( John 8:42)

"All things have been handed over to me by my Father; and no one knows who the Son is except the Father, or who the Father is except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him." ( Luke 10:22)

 

[AllieBaba]

But the humble will inherit the land And will delight themselves in abundant prosperity.
Psalm 37:11

I say to you, among those born of women there is no one greater than John; yet
he who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.
Luke 7:28

 

[Iriemon]

where?

here are just a few passages that cover it imo....

"Hear O Israel: the Lord our God, the Lord is one." ( Mark 12:29)

"I and the Father are one." ( John 10:30)

"I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you know me, you will know my Father also." ( John 14:6-7)

But Jesus answered them, 'My Father is working still, and I am still working.' This was why the Jews sought all the more to kill him, because he not only broke the sabbath, but also called God his own Father, making himself equal with God. ( John 5:16-18)

"Whoever hates me hates my Father also." ( John 15:23)

''I tell you the truth. Before Abraham was born I AM. ''John 8:58''

"If I am not doing the works of my Father, then do not believe me; but if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me and I am in the Father." ( John 10:37-38)

"Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority; but the Father who dwells in me does his works." ( John 14:10)

"Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing on his own, but only what he sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, the Son does likewise. The Father loves the Son and shows him all that he himself is doing; and he will show him greater works than these, so that you will be astonished." ( John 5:19-20)

"Call no one your father on earth, for you have one Father - the one in heaven. Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one instructor, the Messiah." ( Matthew 23:9)

"The Father judges no one but has given all judgment to the Son, so that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Anyone who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him." ( John 5:22-23)

"If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now I am here. I did not come on my own, but he sent me." ( John 8:42)

"All things have been handed over to me by my Father; and no one knows who the Son is except the Father, or who the Father is except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him." ( Luke 10:22)

Even if we accept John's passages as being an accurate description of Jesus' statements, how is it that Jesus is necessarily to be claiming to be the literal son of god with these passages?

In every church we pray "our faher who art in heaven..." But we don't mean that we are the literal children of God. God is often referred to in paternalistic terms in the Bible. It's a figurative phrase, just like I've heard folks argue that where the Bible says the sun went on its path around the earth it doesn't mean that literally the sun is revolving around the earth.

So Jesus calls Gov "my father". So do lots of others. Why is that a claim to be the literal son of God?

 

[Pyrite]

But when you punish or forbid people to exhibit religious imagery or refer to their religion in public, that is, in effect, a theocracy...though actually an anti-theocracy.

What's the difference of saying "You may only refer to this one religion" compared to "You may never refer to religion in public at all"?

I'm not asking for that. You are expanding my position to include a position with which I do not agree. I have no problem with a judge who wears a cross, goes to church, and tells people he is a christian. That is that judge's business. I have a problem when he wants to put a giant statue of the Ten Commandments out in front of the courthouse. One is the personal religion of the judge, and the other implies that his religion is what people in that courthouse will be judged on, instead of the law.

 

[Care4all]

where?

here are just a few passages that cover it imo....

"Hear O Israel: the Lord our God, the Lord is one." ( Mark 12:29)

"I and the Father are one." ( John 10:30)

"I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you know me, you will know my Father also." ( John 14:6-7)

But Jesus answered them, 'My Father is working still, and I am still working.' This was why the Jews sought all the more to kill him, because he not only broke the sabbath, but also called God his own Father, making himself equal with God. ( John 5:16-18)

"Whoever hates me hates my Father also." ( John 15:23)

''I tell you the truth. Before Abraham was born I AM. ''John 8:58''

"If I am not doing the works of my Father, then do not believe me; but if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me and I am in the Father." ( John 10:37-38)

"Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority; but the Father who dwells in me does his works." ( John 14:10)

"Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing on his own, but only what he sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, the Son does likewise. The Father loves the Son and shows him all that he himself is doing; and he will show him greater works than these, so that you will be astonished." ( John 5:19-20)

"Call no one your father on earth, for you have one Father - the one in heaven. Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one instructor, the Messiah." ( Matthew 23:9)

"The Father judges no one but has given all judgment to the Son, so that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Anyone who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him." ( John 5:22-23)

"If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now I am here. I did not come on my own, but he sent me." ( John 8:42)

"All things have been handed over to me by my Father; and no one knows who the Son is except the Father, or who the Father is except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him." ( Luke 10:22)

Even if we accept John's passages as being an accurate description of Jesus' statements, how is it that Jesus is necessarily to be claiming to be the literal son of god with these passages?

In every church we pray "our faher who art in heaven..." But we don't mean that we are the literal children of God. God is often referred to in paternalistic terms in the Bible. It's a figurative phrase, just like I've heard folks argue that where the Bible says the sun went on its path around the earth it doesn't mean that literally the sun is revolving around the earth.

So Jesus calls Gov "my father". So do lots of others. Why is that a claim to be the literal son of God?

you don't have to believe such, it is what I have come to believe Irie....

Care

 

[AllieBaba]

But when you punish or forbid people to exhibit religious imagery or refer to their religion in public, that is, in effect, a theocracy...though actually an anti-theocracy.

What's the difference of saying "You may only refer to this one religion" compared to "You may never refer to religion in public at all"?

I'm not asking for that. You are expanding my position to include a position with which I do not agree. I have no problem with a judge who wears a cross, goes to church, and tells people he is a christian. That is that judge's business. I have a problem when he wants to put a giant statue of the Ten Commandments out in front of the courthouse. One is the personal religion of the judge, and the other implies that his religion is what people in that courthouse will be judged on, instead of the law.

I have a problem with having a gigantic bronze statue of a local dentists 3 daughters looking like wood nymphs at the city library. But there it is.

Our communities have the right to adorn their public places with whatever they desire. THAT'S freedom of speech. If they want to have a representation of the 10 commandments, which are, after all, the backbone of a civilized society, so be it. They have that right. You have the right to propose something different. And that's the end of it.

 

[LOki]

I have a problem with having a gigantic bronze statue of a local dentists 3 daughters looking like wood nymphs at the city library. But there it is.

You have the right to express that opinion.

Our communities have the right to adorn their public places with whatever they desire. THAT'S freedom of speech.

Wrong. Communities have no rights, communities are empowered. Only individuals have rights.

Our communities have NO right to adorn their public places with whatever they desire.

If they want to have a representation of the 10 commandments, . . .

They are prohbited; but each individual of that community has the right to erect one on their own lawn--they just can't vote to put one on someone else's lawn, or the government's lawn.

. . . which are, after all, the backbone of a civilized society, . . .

Nonsense and irrelevent.

They have that right.

They don't.

You have the right to propose something different.

You got something right . . . finally.