The United States IS a Christian Nation

[AllieBaba]

Hey. I'm a "she", folks.

 

[Cecilie1200]

In any case, "Nature's God" is again a much more general term than simply "God".

Why is that a more general term?

Because "God" is a proper noun, denoting the Christian God, while "Nature's God" or the god of nature, refers to any God who might exist. It's a gesture toward inclusion of people whose gods might not be referred to as "God".

I'm curious as to what evidence you have that the Founders interpreted it that way, simply because you, over two hundred years later, interpret it that way.

the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God

sounds like deism- a far cry from Christianity

I'm not arguing that 'Nature's God' means the Christian God, thought I don't think you can conclude it does not mean the Christian God.

It's kind of the crux of this argument, regarding whether the founders specifically avoided endorsing the christian religion. I believe they did, so as to keep the government neutral in spiritual affairs, because in England, where religion and government were intertwined, one religion was endorsed by the government, and had the right to dictate to other religions how they must behave. Because of this, the founding fathers advocated that government should be completely neutral on matters of faith, and that one's religion was a private matter, between oneself and one's god.[/QUOTE]

They really didn't avoid endorsing Christianity, and certainly not to be inclusive to non-Christian religions, because those virtually did not exist in the US at that time. What they were trying to avoid was a federal endorsement of any SPECIFIC Christian group, primarily because they didn't want the federal government interfering in the individual STATES endorsing specific churches. You do know that there were several states which had official churches at that time, don't you? From the perspective of the people of the US in 1787, "different religions" meant Baptist, Episcopalian, and Catholic, not Christian, Buddhist, and Muslim.

America is a nation composed primarily of Christians. It is also a nation composed primarily of Caucasians. But that does not make America a "Christian nation" any more than it makes America a "Caucasian nation".

Well, actually, it does.

 

[Cecilie1200]

No it is not a Christian nation. It was and is a secular nation with full religious freedom for all. Right wing evangelicals help create the dip trouble we are in. Religion is private and should not be a part of any decisions made by our government.

Yes, the government should make decisions with absolutely no reference whatsoever to the belief system professed by 90-something percent of its constituents. It ought to base its decisions on anything BUT what its people believe. God forbid it be in any way in touch with the things on which the American people base their lives and ideas about right and wrong.

 

[AllieBaba]

Not only that, but our constitution provides that we DO NOT HAVE TO KEEP OUR RELIGION PRIVATE. This nation was founded by people who were SICK of having to hide their religion. Hence FREEDOM OF RELIGION and FREEDOM OF SPEECH. So we could talk about our religion without fear of professional or legal backlash.

But apparently some wonderful leftists want to go back to the old days.

 

[JBeukema]

But apparently some wonderful leftists want to go back to the old days.

What old days? You mean justifying slavery with the bible?

 

[ABikerSailor]

Not only that, but our constitution provides that we DO NOT HAVE TO KEEP OUR RELIGION PRIVATE. This nation was founded by people who were SICK of having to hide their religion. Hence FREEDOM OF RELIGION and FREEDOM OF SPEECH. So we could talk about our religion without fear of professional or legal backlash.

But apparently some wonderful leftists want to go back to the old days.

Please......explain again how Christian conservatives allow others to practice freely?

Ever seen an evangelical encounter a Buddhist?

 

[Pyrite]

Why is that a more general term?

Because "God" is a proper noun, denoting the Christian God, while "Nature's God" or the god of nature, refers to any God who might exist. It's a gesture toward inclusion of people whose gods might not be referred to as "God".

I'm curious as to what evidence you have that the Founders interpreted it that way, simply because you, over two hundred years later, interpret it that way.

I'm not arguing that 'Nature's God' means the Christian God, thought I don't think you can conclude it does not mean the Christian God.

It's kind of the crux of this argument, regarding whether the founders specifically avoided endorsing the christian religion. I believe they did, so as to keep the government neutral in spiritual affairs, because in England, where religion and government were intertwined, one religion was endorsed by the government, and had the right to dictate to other religions how they must behave. Because of this, the founding fathers advocated that government should be completely neutral on matters of faith, and that one's religion was a private matter, between oneself and one's god.

They really didn't avoid endorsing Christianity, and certainly not to be inclusive to non-Christian religions, because those virtually did not exist in the US at that time. What they were trying to avoid was a federal endorsement of any SPECIFIC Christian group, primarily because they didn't want the federal government interfering in the individual STATES endorsing specific churches. You do know that there were several states which had official churches at that time, don't you? From the perspective of the people of the US in 1787, "different religions" meant Baptist, Episcopalian, and Catholic, not Christian, Buddhist, and Muslim.

Yes, I know about the state endorsed churches, since more than half the states were essentially founded by different sects seeking to go off and form their own communities. And the Treaty of Tripoli would seem to suggest that the founders didn't think our nation had any problem with Muslims, or "musselmen" as they called them at the time.

America is a nation composed primarily of Christians. It is also a nation composed primarily of Caucasians. But that does not make America a "Christian nation" any more than it makes America a "Caucasian nation".

Well, actually, it does.

It does? simple majority of population is all it takes to make America a "christian nation"? why is that?

 

[Dr Grump]

[Yes, the government should make decisions with absolutely no reference whatsoever to the belief system professed by 90-something percent of its constituents. It ought to base its decisions on anything BUT what its people believe. God forbid it be in any way in touch with the things on which the American people base their lives and ideas about right and wrong.

Glad you got something right....even if you are being sarcastic.....

 

[JBeukema]

if 90& of america took up Jihad and called for the decriminalization of rape....?

there's a reason we don't have a Democracy

 

[Care4all]

we live in a Democratic Republic....we are not a Republic such as the Republic of Congo etc and to insist we are a republic and not a Democracy are as clueless as can be JB.

We chose a republican form of Democracy, a constitutional republic as our form of Democracy, verses as example of Britain, who has a parliamentary form of Democracy.

So, YES, we are a Democracy and the form is a republican form of democracy...we are a Democratic Republic.

This is what was taught to me in school decades ago.

Care

 

[Care4all]

Because "God" is a proper noun, denoting the Christian God, while "Nature's God" or the god of nature, refers to any God who might exist. It's a gesture toward inclusion of people whose gods might not be referred to as "God".

I'm curious as to what evidence you have that the Founders interpreted it that way, simply because you, over two hundred years later, interpret it that way.



They really didn't avoid endorsing Christianity, and certainly not to be inclusive to non-Christian religions, because those virtually did not exist in the US at that time. What they were trying to avoid was a federal endorsement of any SPECIFIC Christian group, primarily because they didn't want the federal government interfering in the individual STATES endorsing specific churches. You do know that there were several states which had official churches at that time, don't you? From the perspective of the people of the US in 1787, "different religions" meant Baptist, Episcopalian, and Catholic, not Christian, Buddhist, and Muslim.

Yes, I know about the state endorsed churches, since more than half the states were essentially founded by different sects seeking to go off and form their own communities. And the Treaty of Tripoli would seem to suggest that the founders didn't think our nation had any problem with Muslims, or "musselmen" as they called them at the time.

America is a nation composed primarily of Christians. It is also a nation composed primarily of Caucasians. But that does not make America a "Christian nation" any more than it makes America a "Caucasian nation".

Well, actually, it does.

It does? simple majority of population is all it takes to make America a "christian nation"? why is that?

just as any nation or country in the world is described as a nation/country of that particular religion....

Saudi arabia is a muslim nation/country Japan is a buddhist nation/country Britain is a Christian nation/country....Israel is a jewish nation/country.... India is a buddhist and hindu nation/country.

It is commonly used as a generality in the description of nations or countries....nothing more and nothing less....imo

Care

 

[KittenKoder]

I'm curious as to what evidence you have that the Founders interpreted it that way, simply because you, over two hundred years later, interpret it that way.



They really didn't avoid endorsing Christianity, and certainly not to be inclusive to non-Christian religions, because those virtually did not exist in the US at that time. What they were trying to avoid was a federal endorsement of any SPECIFIC Christian group, primarily because they didn't want the federal government interfering in the individual STATES endorsing specific churches. You do know that there were several states which had official churches at that time, don't you? From the perspective of the people of the US in 1787, "different religions" meant Baptist, Episcopalian, and Catholic, not Christian, Buddhist, and Muslim.

Yes, I know about the state endorsed churches, since more than half the states were essentially founded by different sects seeking to go off and form their own communities. And the Treaty of Tripoli would seem to suggest that the founders didn't think our nation had any problem with Muslims, or "musselmen" as they called them at the time.



Well, actually, it does.

It does? simple majority of population is all it takes to make America a "christian nation"? why is that?

just as any nation or country in the world is described as a nation/country of that particular religion....

Saudi arabia is a muslim nation/country Japan is a buddhist nation/country Britain is a Christian nation/country....Israel is a jewish nation/country.... India is a buddhist and hindu nation/country.

It is commonly used as a generality in the description of nations or countries....nothing more and nothing less....imo

Care

Not really ... Japan is an industrialist nation, many of them are christian now and many other religions have been added. Their government is more strict on separation of church and state than almost any other ... but they do have many feudal concepts in their government.

 

[eots]

there are no christian nations ..Christ is not...lord of the world ...this is the devils playground

It's such a brutal planet
It's such a livid hell
It was a holy garden
That's right where Adam fell
It's where the bite was taken
It's where we chose to sin
It's where we first were naked
This is where our death begins

Here's where we keep the armies
Here's where we write their names
Here's where our money got us
Here's our famous hall of shame
Here's where we starve the hungry
Here's where we cheat the poor
Here's where we beat the children
Here is where we pay the whore's

Right here we stoned the prophets
Built idols out of mud
Right here we fed the lions
Christian flesh and Christian blood
Down here is where we hung him
Upon an ugly cross
Over there we filled the ovens
Right here the holocaust

ALICE COOPER - BRUTAL PLANET LYRICS

 

[strollingbones]

does capping IS make it so.....

 

[Care4all]

It does? simple majority of population is all it takes to make America a "christian nation"? why is that?

just as any nation or country in the world is described as a nation/country of that particular religion....

Saudi arabia is a muslim nation/country Japan is a buddhist nation/country Britain is a Christian nation/country....Israel is a jewish nation/country.... India is a buddhist and hindu nation/country.

It is commonly used as a generality in the description of nations or countries....nothing more and nothing less....imo

Care

Not really ... Japan is an industrialist nation, many of them are christian now and many other religions have been added. Their government is more strict on separation of church and state than almost any other ... but they do have many feudal concepts in their government.

you can have a thousand other religions in a nation, but when it is described, the primary religion of their citizens is used....there are muslim citizens and christian citizens in israel, but still in description of the country one would say it is a jewish nation/country....

as i stated, this is a 'generality'....not where specifics are required in description...

this is NOTHING NEW kitten.....what is new, is the rebellion of ''ya'll'' regarding such....maybe cuz i am an oldtimer....this just doesn't bother me?

care

 

[AllieBaba]

Not only that, but our constitution provides that we DO NOT HAVE TO KEEP OUR RELIGION PRIVATE. This nation was founded by people who were SICK of having to hide their religion. Hence FREEDOM OF RELIGION and FREEDOM OF SPEECH. So we could talk about our religion without fear of professional or legal backlash.

But apparently some wonderful leftists want to go back to the old days.

Please......explain again how Christian conservatives allow others to practice freely?

Ever seen an evangelical encounter a Buddhist?

Er....yes...

 

[Pyrite]

I'm curious as to what evidence you have that the Founders interpreted it that way, simply because you, over two hundred years later, interpret it that way.



They really didn't avoid endorsing Christianity, and certainly not to be inclusive to non-Christian religions, because those virtually did not exist in the US at that time. What they were trying to avoid was a federal endorsement of any SPECIFIC Christian group, primarily because they didn't want the federal government interfering in the individual STATES endorsing specific churches. You do know that there were several states which had official churches at that time, don't you? From the perspective of the people of the US in 1787, "different religions" meant Baptist, Episcopalian, and Catholic, not Christian, Buddhist, and Muslim.

Yes, I know about the state endorsed churches, since more than half the states were essentially founded by different sects seeking to go off and form their own communities. And the Treaty of Tripoli would seem to suggest that the founders didn't think our nation had any problem with Muslims, or "musselmen" as they called them at the time.



Well, actually, it does.

It does? simple majority of population is all it takes to make America a "christian nation"? why is that?

just as any nation or country in the world is described as a nation/country of that particular religion....

Saudi arabia is a muslim nation/country Japan is a buddhist nation/country Britain is a Christian nation/country....Israel is a jewish nation/country.... India is a buddhist and hindu nation/country.

It is commonly used as a generality in the description of nations or countries....nothing more and nothing less....imo

Care

See, to most people Saudi Arabia is a "Muslim nation" because it's a theocracy, and to a lesser degree, the same is true of Israel.

 

[AllieBaba]

But when you punish or forbid people to exhibit religious imagery or refer to their religion in public, that is, in effect, a theocracy...though actually an anti-theocracy.

What's the difference of saying "You may only refer to this one religion" compared to "You may never refer to religion in public at all"?

 

[AllieBaba]

We have separation of church and state for one purpose and one purpose only...to ensure that people of faith are not penalized for their religion. If you penalize them for being religious, you have defeated the purpose.

 

[Care4all]

It does? simple majority of population is all it takes to make America a "christian nation"? why is that?

just as any nation or country in the world is described as a nation/country of that particular religion....

Saudi arabia is a muslim nation/country Japan is a buddhist nation/country Britain is a Christian nation/country....Israel is a jewish nation/country.... India is a buddhist and hindu nation/country.

It is commonly used as a generality in the description of nations or countries....nothing more and nothing less....imo

Care

See, to most people Saudi Arabia is a "Muslim nation" because it's a theocracy, and to a lesser degree, the same is true of Israel.

If you look at Israel's government, there is nothing that is theocratic in it....even muslims are elected to their knesset, their parliament...

Saudi Arabia is a theocracy, not because they are Muslims, but because its government IS A THEOCRACY.

However Iraq, before our invaision, was occupied by Shi'ite Muslims and Sunni Muslims and also a pretty good size Christian community, but was a SECULAR country and when labling Iraq, it was also labeled a Muslim country...and so is Qatar, and so is Kuwait and so is Turkey etc....but these countries ARE NOT Theocracies...

Do you see what I mean...?

Care