The U.S. NOT founded upon Christianity

[txlonghorn]

The U.S. NOT founded upon Christianity
Many Christian's who think of America as founded upon Christianity usually present the Declaration of Independence as "proof" of a Christian America. ...
The U.S. NOT founded upon Christianity - Cached - Similar

Our Founding Fathers Were NOT Christians They were men of The Enlightenment, not men of Christianity. .... Thirteen governments [of the original states] thus founded on the natural .... He led the men who turned America from an English colony into a self-governing nation. ...
Thomas Jefferson - John Adams - Benjamin Franklin - Thomas Painefreethought.mbdojo.com/foundingfathers.html - Cached - Similar

I guess it's all dependent on whether you focus on the constitution itself or the authors of it. They were Christian in their faith...but they were willing to establish a freedom of religion so as to encourage others to seek out the same willful acceptance of Christ as they did. Instead of being FORCED into religion as they were in England at the time, they came here to escape the religious tyranny they were under.

The Constitution was our founding father's vote of confidence to honor and trust people in all their imperfections to use this tool called free choice under the venue of our Constitution as its guiding force to determine the destiny of our nation. It was their trust that this one act of free will would pave a victory for good over evil and prosperity over despair that the constraints of tyranny would deny us.

 

[Toome]

Back in 1776, when our forefathers dropped to their knees to pray in thanksgiving or to pray for their fellow man, you can bet your bottom dollar that they were not praying to Allah, Buddha, Zeus or the Reverend Moon.

Threads like this come across as pretty dumb. Of course the Founding Fathers did not want a state-sponsored religion. But it's pretty dumb to assume that Christianity did not play a role in the founding of our nation.

 

[rightwinger]

Back in 1776, when our forefathers dropped to their knees to pray in thanksgiving or to pray for their fellow man, you can bet your bottom dollar that they were not praying to Allah, Buddha, Zeus or the Reverend Moon.

Threads like this come across as pretty dumb. Of course the Founding Fathers did not want a state-sponsored religion. But it's pretty dumb to assume that Christianity did not play a role in the founding of our nation.

I agree with Toome

We were founded by Christians......but not founded on Christianity

 

[rightwinger]

I see what you're saying. I was referring to the issue of "slavery", not taxes.

The Constitution was composed under the inarguable condition that slavery was going to continue to exist, legally. If that is what you mean by not addressing it then no in that sense they didn't address it.

My point was that not addressing it was in it's own way a manner addressing it.

My point is that "the means" to ending slavery were in the Constitution. There is no way slavery was going to exist in a free society for very long.

Slavery managed to exist for almost 80 years after the Constitution was enacted.
For the most part, slavery was not needed at the time of the Constitution. Unfortunately, Eli Whitney invented the cotton gin shortly after the revolution. The cotton gin made cotton the gold of our economy and made slave labor essential to that economy.

It would not have just... gone away...without the Civil War

 

[bigrebnc1775]

James Madison;
"Can a free government possibly exist with the Roman Catholic religion?"
-letter to Thomas Jefferson

John Adams;
"The divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity. Nowhere in the Gospels do we find a precept for Creeds, Confessions, Oaths, Doctrines, and whole cartloads of other foolish trumpery that we find in Christianity."

Thomas Jefferson;
"Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced an inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth."
- "Notes on Virginia"

Ben Franklin;
"I wish it (Christianity) were more productive of good works ... I mean real good works ... not holy-day keeping, sermon-hearing ... or making long prayers, filled with flatteries and compliments despised by wise men, and much less capable of pleasing the Deity."
- Works, Vol. VII, p. 75

Thomas Paine;
"All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."

Our Founding Fathers Were NOT Christians

I love it when people use unsubstantial quotes. Espically when they us Thomas Jefferson
Written in the front of Thomas Jefferson's personal Bible, he wrote:

"I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus. I have little doubt that our whole country will soon be rallied to the unity of our creator."
http://www.faithofourfathers.net/jefferson.html
The Virginia Act For Establishing Religious Freedom

Thomas Jefferson, 1786


Well aware that Almighty God hath created the mind free; that all attempts to influence it by temporal punishments or burdens, or by civil incapacitations, tend only to beget habits of hypocrisy and meanness, and are a departure from the plan of the Holy Author of our religion, who being Lord both of body and mind, yet chose not to propagate it by coercions on either, as was in his Almighty power to do; that the impious presumption of legislators and rulers, civil as well as ecclesiastical, who, being themselves but fallible and uninspired men, have assumed dominion over the faith of others, setting up their own opinions and modes of thinking as the only true and infallible, and as such endeavoring to impose them on others, hath established and maintained false religions over the greatest part of the world, and through all time; that to compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves, is sinful and tyrannical; that even the forcing him to support this or that teacher of his own religious persuasion, is depriving him of the comfortable liberty of giving his contributions to the particular pastor whose morals he would make his pattern, and whose powers he feels most persuasive to righteousness, and is withdrawing from the ministry those temporal rewards, which proceeding from an approbation of their personal conduct, are an additional incitement to earnest and unremitting labors for the instruction of mankind; that our civil rights have no dependence on our religious opinions, more than our opinions in physics or geometry; that, therefore, the proscribing any citizen as unworthy the public confidence by laying upon him an incapacity of being called to the offices of trust and emolument, unless he profess or renounce this or that religious opinion, is depriving him injuriously of those privileges and advantages to which in common with his fellow citizens he has a natural right; that it tends also to corrupt the principles of that very religion it is meant to encourage, by bribing, with a monopoly of worldly honors and emoluments, those who will externally profess and conform to it; that though indeed these are criminal who do not withstand such temptation, yet neither are those innocent who lay the bait in their way; that to suffer the civil magistrate to intrude his powers into the field of opinion and to restrain the profession or propagation of principles, on the supposition of their ill tendency, is a dangerous fallacy, which at once destroys all religious liberty, because he being of course judge of that tendency, will make his opinions the rule of judgment, and approve or condemn the sentiments of others only as they shall square with or differ from his own; that it is time enough for the rightful purposes of civil government, for its officers to interfere when principles break out into overt acts against peace and good order; and finally, that truth is great and will prevail if left to herself, that she is the proper and sufficient antagonist to error, and has nothing to fear from the conflict, unless by human interposition disarmed of her natural weapons, free argument and debate, errors ceasing to be dangerous when it is permitted freely to contradict them.
Be it therefore enacted by the General Assembly, That no man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry whatsoever, nor shall be enforced, restrained, molested, or burdened in his body or goods, nor shall otherwise suffer on account of his religious opinions or belief; but that all men shall be free to profess, and by argument to maintain, their opinions in matters of religion, and that the same shall in nowise diminish, enlarge, or affect their civil capacities.

And though we well know this Assembly, elected by the people for the ordinary purposes of legislation only, have no powers equal to our own and that therefore to declare this act irrevocable would be of no effect in law, yet we are free to declare, and do declare, that the rights hereby asserted are of the natural rights of mankind, and that if any act shall be hereafter passed to repeal the present or to narrow its operation, such act will be an infringement of natural right.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The Constitution was composed under the inarguable condition that slavery was going to continue to exist, legally. If that is what you mean by not addressing it then no in that sense they didn't address it.

My point was that not addressing it was in it's own way a manner addressing it.

My point is that "the means" to ending slavery were in the Constitution. There is no way slavery was going to exist in a free society for very long.

The simple fact is had they tried to address Slavery at that time. America would never have been a Nation. Period, Many of the founders, even ones who owned slaves. Expressed their desire to see the institution die, but they were realist, and lived in the real world, and knew they could not create a nation if they alienated half the states from the get go.

In their wisdom however as Jack said they did create a way for future generations to put an end to it.

The Constitution only ended slavery if you believe and acknowledge that it was constitutional for Lincoln and the Union to forcibly 'veto' secession.

 

[dilloduck]

My point is that "the means" to ending slavery were in the Constitution. There is no way slavery was going to exist in a free society for very long.

The simple fact is had they tried to address Slavery at that time. America would never have been a Nation. Period, Many of the founders, even ones who owned slaves. Expressed their desire to see the institution die, but they were realist, and lived in the real world, and knew they could not create a nation if they alienated half the states from the get go.

In their wisdom however as Jack said they did create a way for future generations to put an end to it.

The Constitution only ended slavery if you believe and acknowledge that it was constitutional for Lincoln and the Union to forcibly 'veto' secession.

*smells desperation*

 

[Quantum Windbag]

My point is that "the means" to ending slavery were in the Constitution. There is no way slavery was going to exist in a free society for very long.

The simple fact is had they tried to address Slavery at that time. America would never have been a Nation. Period, Many of the founders, even ones who owned slaves. Expressed their desire to see the institution die, but they were realist, and lived in the real world, and knew they could not create a nation if they alienated half the states from the get go.

In their wisdom however as Jack said they did create a way for future generations to put an end to it.

The Constitution only ended slavery if you believe and acknowledge that it was constitutional for Lincoln and the Union to forcibly 'veto' secession.

No one said the Constitution ended slavery, they said the way was provided to bring it to an end through the Constitution.

Take a look at Article V.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Posterity! You will never know how much it cost the present generation to preserve your freedom! I hope you will make a good use of it if you do not, I shall repent in Heaven that I ever took half the pains to preserve it. ~John Adams letter to his wife Abigail Adams, 26 April 1777.

 

[uscitizen]

At least we got the illuminati out of our govt a few years on down the road.

 

[rdean]

A lot has changed since the US was founded. Things the founding fathers would never have approved of. Women voting. Slavery ending.

Even Jesus obviously approved of slavery.

Ephesians 6:5 NLT
Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ.

1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT
Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them.

 

[LuckyDan]

What countries did outlaw slavery by the 18th century? Were there any such countries at the time of our founding?

 

[bodecea]

A lot has changed since the US was founded. Things the founding fathers would never have approved of. Women voting. Slavery ending.

Even Jesus obviously approved of slavery.

Ephesians 6:5 NLT
Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ.

1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT
Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them.

That's not Jesus...that's Paul.

 

[LuckyDan]

A lot has changed since the US was founded. Things the founding fathers would never have approved of. Women voting. Slavery ending.

Even Jesus obviously approved of slavery.

Ephesians 6:5 NLT
Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ.

1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT
Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them.

That's not Jesus...that's Paul.

And it was the way of the world 2000 years ago.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

A lot has changed since the US was founded. Things the founding fathers would never have approved of. Women voting. Slavery ending.

Even Jesus obviously approved of slavery.

Ephesians 6:5 NLT
Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ.

1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT
Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them.

Matthew Mark Luke and John you will only find the life of Jesus written in them you will not find it written in Ephesians or Timothy

 

[uscitizen]

cherrypicking to build the proper(your) image of Jesus?

 

[txlonghorn]

cherrypicking to build the proper(your) image of Jesus?

You'd be amazed at how many actually do....

Or....maybe you wouldn't be amazed...

 

[Quantum Windbag]

A lot has changed since the US was founded. Things the founding fathers would never have approved of. Women voting. Slavery ending.

Even Jesus obviously approved of slavery.

Ephesians 6:5 NLT
Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ.

1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT
Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them.

Oooh, that almost hurt.

That was Paul, not Jesus.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

A lot has changed since the US was founded. Things the founding fathers would never have approved of. Women voting. Slavery ending.

Even Jesus obviously approved of slavery.

Ephesians 6:5 NLT
Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ.

1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT
Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them.

That's not Jesus...that's Paul.

You beat me to it.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

What countries did outlaw slavery by the 18th century? Were there any such countries at the time of our founding?

Quite a few.

Abolition of slavery timeline - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia