The U.S. NOT founded upon Christianity

[NYcarbineer]

More old & stale Socialist/Progressive B.S. All of our Founding Fathers were practicing Christians. This is fact. Loony Socialists/Progressives may not like this but it is still fact. Get over it. Geesh!

Isn't the belief that Jesus was/is the son of God fundamental to being a practicing Christian?

Or are you saying that if you call yourself a Christian and/or attend a Christian church occasionally, that makes you a Christian.

It is only fundamental to those who don't understand his teachings.

So the, what would you call it, foundational? primary? fundamental? belief that Christianity is based on, i.e., the divinity of Jesus, that Jesus was the son of God, which virtually all organized Christian churches hold as their most important truth,

is an error?

lol

 

[Jack Fate]

For crying out loud, you libs need to get over the fact our nation was founded on Christian/Judeo principles. I know you don't like that fact and you spend an inordinate amount of time and energy trying to convince people that somehow being a "deist" is not being a "Christian" or whatever.

Why is it so important to you to convince others that our founders were not men of God? Why the nitpicking bullshit?

They won't tell you this.....but it is...

Because liberals/socialists/progressives/communists/anti-Americans wish to severe the tie that we Americans have with God.....

Because they wish to destroy our belief that our rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness are God-given....

Because they wish to squeeze Government in between us and our natural Creator...

Because they wish to replace our belief in God with the belief that Government is the ultimate arbiter and giver (and taker) of your rights....

Because liberals/socialists/progressives/communists/anti-Americans are (by-and-large) non-believers in God.....

Because God frustrates them and gets in their way.....

Because ultimately man-made Government = their "God"....

I agree. Well spoken. Thank you

 

[Political Junky]

Jesus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Thomas Jefferson, one of the Founding Fathers of the United States and a deist, created the Jefferson Bible entitled "The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth" that included only Jesus' ethical teachings because he did not believe in Jesus' divinity or any of the other supernatural aspects of the Bible.

 

[NYcarbineer]

How can you "address" something when it is not mentioned? The US Constitution ignores slavery until it was outlawed.

Did slaves enjoy the protections offered in the Bill of Rights?

What was the 3/5ths Compromise about?

I see what you're saying. I was referring to the issue of "slavery", not taxes.

The Constitution was composed under the inarguable condition that slavery was going to continue to exist, legally. If that is what you mean by not addressing it then no in that sense they didn't address it.

My point was that not addressing it was in it's own way a manner addressing it.

 

[dilloduck]

Did slaves enjoy the protections offered in the Bill of Rights?

What was the 3/5ths Compromise about?

I see what you're saying. I was referring to the issue of "slavery", not taxes.

The Constitution was composed under the inarguable condition that slavery was going to continue to exist, legally. If that is what you mean by not addressing it then no in that sense they didn't address it.

My point was that not addressing it was in it's own way a manner addressing it.

and just why did they kick the can of dealing with slavery down the road ?

 

[NYcarbineer]

The Christian system of religion is an outrage on common sense.

(Thomas Paine, one of your so-called Christian founders)

We call those "exceptions to the rule".

I was responding to libopocalype's 'rule':

All of our Founding Fathers were practicing Christians. This is fact.

So, no, that would not be a fact. That would more resemble ignorant bullshit, than fact.

 

[The T]

They absolutely addressed the issue of slavery, and decided that it was tolerable. In fact it was pretty much a foregone conclusion that slavery was tolerable within the context of the original Constitution.

How can you "address" something when it is not mentioned? The US Constitution ignores slavery until it was outlawed.

Did slaves enjoy the protections offered in the Bill of Rights?

What was the 3/5ths Compromise about?

It was a compromise because Slave states in the South wanted slaves counted thus giving them more Electoral clout. Northern States did NOT want them counted since they could not by law VOTE.

However be it noted that the Southern States pitched a Fit when Lincoln freed them making them Citizens...and therefore could vote.

And those that pitched a fit were Democrats.

 

[dilloduck]

The Christian system of religion is an outrage on common sense.

(Thomas Paine, one of your so-called Christian founders)

We call those "exceptions to the rule".

I was responding to libopocalype's 'rule':

All of our Founding Fathers were practicing Christians. This is fact.

So, no, that would not be a fact. That would more resemble ignorant bullshit, than fact.

naturally. The only way the fact that religious men were the founders of America is to nit pick on the exceptinos to the rule. Go ahead--believe what you will but facts are facts.

oh ya--none claimed that they had attained perfection either.

 

[rightwinger]

How can you "address" something when it is not mentioned? The US Constitution ignores slavery until it was outlawed.

Did slaves enjoy the protections offered in the Bill of Rights?

What was the 3/5ths Compromise about?

It was a compromise because Slave states in the South wanted slaves counted thus giving them more Electoral clout. Northern States did NOT want them counted since they could not by law VOTE.

However be it noted that the Southern States pitched a Fit when Lincoln freed them making them Citizens...and therefore could vote.

And those that pitched a fit were Democrats.

More correctly, they were Christian Democrats

 

[dilloduck]

They absolutely addressed the issue of slavery, and decided that it was tolerable. In fact it was pretty much a foregone conclusion that slavery was tolerable within the context of the original Constitution.

How can you "address" something when it is not mentioned? The US Constitution ignores slavery until it was outlawed.

Did slaves enjoy the protections offered in the Bill of Rights?

What was the 3/5ths Compromise about?

It was about setting aside irresolvable differences in order to protect a young weak nation from being wiped out of existence.

 

[Old Rocks]

The Christian Nation Myth

The Christian Nation Myth
Farrell Till
Whenever the Supreme Court makes a decision that in any way restricts the intrusion of religion into the affairs of government, a flood of editorials, articles, and letters protesting the ruling is sure to appear in the newspapers. Many protesters decry these decisions on the grounds that they conflict with the wishes and intents of the "founding fathers."

Such a view of American history is completely contrary to known facts. The primary leaders of the so-called founding fathers of our nation were not Bible-believing Christians; they were deists. Deism was a philosophical belief that was widely accepted by the colonial intelligentsia at the time of the American Revolution. Its major tenets included belief in human reason as a reliable means of solving social and political problems and belief in a supreme deity who created the universe to operate solely by natural laws. The supreme God of the Deists removed himself entirely from the universe after creating it. They believed that he assumed no control over it, exerted no influence on natural phenomena, and gave no supernatural revelation to man. A necessary consequence of these beliefs was a rejection of many doctrines central to the Christian religion. Deists did not believe in the virgin birth, divinity, or resurrection of Jesus, the efficacy of prayer, the miracles of the Bible, or even the divine inspiration of the Bible.

These beliefs were forcefully articulated by Thomas Paine in Age of Reason, a book that so outraged his contemporaries that he died rejected and despised by the nation that had once revered him as "the father of the American Revolution." To this day, many mistakenly consider him an atheist, even though he was an out spoken defender of the Deistic view of God. Other important founding fathers who espoused Deism were George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, Ethan Allen, James Madison, and James Monroe.

 

[dilloduck]

Deism


The effort to find this natural religion came to be known as Deism. The focus naturally was on ethics. Deism first appeared in England in the seventeenth century in response to the theological controversies that divided Christians during the sixteenth century. Deism must be distinguished from theism and atheism. Atheists were scornful of deists saying that were not weak enough to be Christians, and not strong enough to be atheists. The Deists believed themselves to be Christians. Their God was not the personal God of the theists: a God who operated through history and concerned himself continually with the affairs of human beings. Rather their God was the Great Artificer of the Universe who with a thrust of his Almighty hand, had set rolling the myriad spheres, and left creation to its own devices. Rather than being intimately involved with the creation, this God had left humanity on its own to be guided in its affairs by reason, the "candle of the Lord."


Deism was denoted by five major doctrines.


1) The existence of God


2) The obligation to worship God


3) the ethical requirements of such worship


4) the need for repentance


5) The need for reward and punishment both in this life and in the one to follow

Lecture 4

 

[bodecea]

I agree that America was not founded on Christianity. BUT, it was founded upon Christian/Judeo biblical principles.

You have to really focus on what the Christian haters say and how they say it. They are always thinking of ways to undermine the truth about the USA when it comes to Christianity. Christianity is the enemy.

So, our laws are based on the J/C biblical principles, eh? Which of the 10 commandments are law? How about Leviticus...how much of it is law? How much of the NT is law?

 

[dilloduck]

Alas----I supposed we will have to concede that America was founded on men who believed in God and they weren't necessarily orthodox Christian.

 

[bodecea]

How can you "address" something when it is not mentioned? The US Constitution ignores slavery until it was outlawed.

Did slaves enjoy the protections offered in the Bill of Rights?

What was the 3/5ths Compromise about?

It was a compromise because Slave states in the South wanted slaves counted thus giving them more Electoral clout. Northern States did NOT want them counted since they could not by law VOTE.

However be it noted that the Southern States pitched a Fit when Lincoln freed them making them Citizens...and therefore could vote.

And those that pitched a fit were Democrats.

Your point being?

 

[Charles_Main]

WADR, are you expecting someone to argue this point?

Has someone said that we were?

Our founders had such a jaded view of Christianity, after being subjects of the Church of England, there is no reason why they would model this country after that standard.

Wrong they did not have a jaded view of Christianity, they had a jaded view of the church of England and Catholic Church. People came here to be able to practice their religion of choice, and the Vast majority of them were Christians of one type or another.

It is pure ignorance to try and pretend the people who founded America were not Christians.

 

[Jack Fate]

Did slaves enjoy the protections offered in the Bill of Rights?

What was the 3/5ths Compromise about?

I see what you're saying. I was referring to the issue of "slavery", not taxes.

The Constitution was composed under the inarguable condition that slavery was going to continue to exist, legally. If that is what you mean by not addressing it then no in that sense they didn't address it.

My point was that not addressing it was in it's own way a manner addressing it.

My point is that "the means" to ending slavery were in the Constitution. There is no way slavery was going to exist in a free society for very long.

 

[Charles_Main]

I see what you're saying. I was referring to the issue of "slavery", not taxes.

The Constitution was composed under the inarguable condition that slavery was going to continue to exist, legally. If that is what you mean by not addressing it then no in that sense they didn't address it.

My point was that not addressing it was in it's own way a manner addressing it.

My point is that "the means" to ending slavery were in the Constitution. There is no way slavery was going to exist in a free society for very long.

The simple fact is had they tried to address Slavery at that time. America would never have been a Nation. Period, Many of the founders, even ones who owned slaves. Expressed their desire to see the institution die, but they were realist, and lived in the real world, and knew they could not create a nation if they alienated half the states from the get go.

In their wisdom however as Jack said they did create a way for future generations to put an end to it.

 

[Jack Fate]

The Constitution was composed under the inarguable condition that slavery was going to continue to exist, legally. If that is what you mean by not addressing it then no in that sense they didn't address it.

My point was that not addressing it was in it's own way a manner addressing it.

My point is that "the means" to ending slavery were in the Constitution. There is no way slavery was going to exist in a free society for very long.

The simple fact is had they tried to address Slavery at that time. America would never have been a Nation. Period, Many of the founders, even ones who owned slaves. Expressed their desire to see the institution die, but they were realist, and lived in the real world, and knew they could not create a nation if they alienated half the states from the get go.

In their wisdom however as Jack said they did create a way for future generations to put an end to it.

Bullseye. Thanks.

 

[bodecea]

WADR, are you expecting someone to argue this point?

Has someone said that we were?

Our founders had such a jaded view of Christianity, after being subjects of the Church of England, there is no reason why they would model this country after that standard.

Wrong they did not have a jaded view of Christianity, they had a jaded view of the church of England and Catholic Church. People came here to be able to practice their religion of choice, and the Vast majority of them were Christians of one type or another.

It is pure ignorance to try and pretend the people who founded America were not Christians.

And some of "those Christians" hung other Christians they didn't like.