The U.S. NOT founded upon Christianity

[Quantum Windbag]

Just like today's politicians. Not a lot of people intelligent enough to make it in politics still believe in 1st grade fairy tales. The only openly agnostic founding father I know of was Franklin.

Claiming to know there isn't a god is just as "1st grade" as claiming there is one. Keep trying, theophobe.

The difference is, the good Christians *KNOW* what happened, *KNOW* what happens when you die, *KNOW* who the good guys and the bad guys are.

The atheists/agnostics generally have the same questions about our existence, but have the cajones to say "I DON'T KNOW."

And that's where I am - I don't know. And neither do you. And neither does the Pope or Pat Robertson. We don't know the answers to these questions. Any answers proposed conveniently require no verifiable evidence. Most religions were invented as a means to instill fear in, therefore control, primitive humans.

I am a Christian and I don't know any of those things.

 

[The T]

, but not "Christ"

But whom was Christ but the Father incarnate on the Earth?

Christ means anointed one. If Jesus is the God the Father then I am a bit confused about who anointed him.

Jesus was God incarnate upon the Earth that came to proclaim the new covenant between God and man.
Though he is professed to be the Son of God...then would he not be an extension of God in the Flesh?

That is what I mean.

From Matthew 16:


13When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
14And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
15He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
18And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. 20Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.

_______________

Just my take.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

But whom was Christ but the Father incarnate on the Earth?

Christ means anointed one. If Jesus is the God the Father then I am a bit confused about who anointed him.

Jesus was God incarnate upon the Earth that came to proclaim the new covenant between God and man.
Though he is professed to be the Son of God...then would he not be an extension of God in the Flesh?

That is what I mean.

From Matthew 16:


13When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
14And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
15He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
18And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. 20Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.

_______________

Just my take.

This is actually a subject of a separate thread, but suffice it to say that the belief that Jesus is God was not one that was not part of mainstream doctrine until after Constantine and the Council of Nicea.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

The U.S. NOT founded upon Christianity
Many Christian's who think of America as founded upon Christianity usually present the Declaration of Independence as "proof" of a Christian America. ...
The U.S. NOT founded upon Christianity - Cached - Similar

Our Founding Fathers Were NOT Christians They were men of The Enlightenment, not men of Christianity. .... Thirteen governments [of the original states] thus founded on the natural .... He led the men who turned America from an English colony into a self-governing nation. ...
Thomas Jefferson - John Adams - Benjamin Franklin - Thomas Painefreethought.mbdojo.com/foundingfathers.html - Cached - Similar

LilOlLady....aka LOL.....because you are a joke....

You claim the Founding Fathers were NOT Christians...??

Only perverse socialist/progressive/communist Anti-Americans slimeballs like you are attempting to pervert the history of America by making such outrageous claims.....

How about we take a looky here at the FACTS.....RATIONAL people would agree that an OVERWHELMING number of Founding Fathers (FF) were indeed Christian (specifically, Protestants)....read it and weep...

Religious Affiliation of the Founding Fathers of the United States of America

The three major foundational documents of the United States of America are the Declaration of Independence (July 1776), the Articles of Confederation (drafted 1777, ratified 1781) and the Constitution of the United States of America (1789). There are a total of 143 signatures on these documents, representing 118 different signers. (Some individuals signed more than one document.)

There were 56 signers of the Declaration of Independence. There were 48 signers of the Articles of Confederation. All 55 delegates who participated in the Constitutional Convention of 1787 are regarded as Founding Fathers, in fact, they are often regarded as the Founding Fathers because it is this group that actually debated, drafted and signed the U.S. Constitution, which is the basis for the country's political and legal system. Only 39 delegates actually signed the document, however, meaning there were 16 non-signing delegates - individuals who were Constitutional Convention delegates but were not signers of the Constitution.

There were 95 Senators and Representatives in the First Federal Congress. If one combines the total number of signatures on the Declaration, the Articles of Confederation and the Constitution with the non-signing Constitutional Convention delegates, and then adds to that sum the number of congressmen in the First Federal Congress, one obtains a total of 238 "slots" or "positions" in these groups which one can classify as "Founding Fathers" of the United States. Because 40 individuals had multiple roles (they signed multiple documents and/or also served in the First Federal Congress), there are 204 unique individuals in this group of "Founding Fathers." These are the people who did one or more of the following:

- signed the Declaration of Independence
- signed the Articles of Confederation
- attended the Constitutional Convention of 1787
- signed the Constitution of the United States of America
- served as Senators in the First Federal Congress (1789-1791)
- served as U.S. Representatives in the First Federal Congress

The religious affiliations of these individuals are summarized below. Obviously this is a very restrictive set of names, and does not include everyone who could be considered an "American Founding Father." But most of the major figures that people generally think of in this context are included using these criteria, including George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Samuel Adams, Benjamin Franklin, John Adams, John Hancock, James Madison, Alexander Hamilton and more.

Religous Affiliation of FF.......No.of FF..........Percentage of FF

Episcopalian/Anglican......... 88......................... 54.7%
Presbyterian...................... 30......................... 18.6%
Congregationalist............... 27......................... 16.8%
Quaker............................... 7........................... 4.3%
Dutch Reformed/German
Reformed.......................... 6............................ 3.7%
Lutheran............................. 5............................ 3.1%
Catholic.............................. 3............................ 1.9%
Huguenot............................ 3............................ 1.9%
Unitarian............................. 3.............................1.9%
Methodist............................ 2............................ 1.2%
Calvinist.............................. 1............................ 0.6%

TOTAL 204

Religion of the Founding Fathers of America

 

[The T]

Christ means anointed one. If Jesus is the God the Father then I am a bit confused about who anointed him.

Jesus was God incarnate upon the Earth that came to proclaim the new covenant between God and man.
Though he is professed to be the Son of God...then would he not be an extension of God in the Flesh?

That is what I mean.

From Matthew 16:


13When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
14And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
15He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
18And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. 20Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.

_______________

Just my take.

This is actually a subject of a separate thread, but suffice it to say that the belief that Jesus is God was not one that was not part of mainstream doctrine until after Constantine and the Council of Nicea.

I understand. But bear in mind I am independent and not attached to any one doctrine. It's all my understanding...my take.

Thanks.

~T

 

[Jack Fate]

That freedom, in any world existing outside of the head of Hobbes, isn't handed down by gods, it exists in the context of the society at hand and the elites at the helm of that society. By modern standards, the Founders had a very narrow conception of freedom, in that it allowed slavery (which one might normally think to be the antithesis of freedom) and institutionalized misogyny. They were (brilliant) products of their time and society, not messengers from the gods.

The founders did not address slavery because that was not the agenda. Forging a nation was the agenda. They were founding a nation of free men and thereby sowing the seeds that eventually ended the national nightmare of slavery.

They absolutely addressed the issue of slavery, and decided that it was tolerable. In fact it was pretty much a foregone conclusion that slavery was tolerable within the context of the original Constitution.

How can you "address" something when it is not mentioned? The US Constitution ignores slavery until it was outlawed.

 

[Jack Fate]

For crying out loud, you libs need to get over the fact our nation was founded on Christian/Judeo principles. I know you don't like that fact and you spend an inordinate amount of time and energy trying to convince people that somehow being a "deist" is not being a "Christian" or whatever.

Why is it so important to you to convince others that our founders were not men of God? Why the nitpicking bullshit?

 

[The T]

For crying out loud, you libs need to get over the fact our nation was founded on Christian/Judeo principles. I know you don't like that fact and you spend an inordinate amount of time and energy trying to convince people that somehow being a "deist" is not being a "Christian" or whatever.

Why is it so important to you to convince others that our founders were not men of God? Why the nitpicking bullshit?

For answers? See the ACLU. (To so proudly they hail). Something larger than themselves other than Big Government they are threatened by.

Which in of itself it completely convoluted in it's own right. Heck, Government IS their religion.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The founders did not address slavery because that was not the agenda. Forging a nation was the agenda. They were founding a nation of free men and thereby sowing the seeds that eventually ended the national nightmare of slavery.

They absolutely addressed the issue of slavery, and decided that it was tolerable. In fact it was pretty much a foregone conclusion that slavery was tolerable within the context of the original Constitution.

How can you "address" something when it is not mentioned? The US Constitution ignores slavery until it was outlawed.

Did slaves enjoy the protections offered in the Bill of Rights?

What was the 3/5ths Compromise about?

 

[NYcarbineer]

More old & stale Socialist/Progressive B.S. All of our Founding Fathers were practicing Christians. This is fact. Loony Socialists/Progressives may not like this but it is still fact. Get over it. Geesh!

Isn't the belief that Jesus was/is the son of God fundamental to being a practicing Christian?

Or are you saying that if you call yourself a Christian and/or attend a Christian church occasionally, that makes you a Christian.

 

[The T]

More old & stale Socialist/Progressive B.S. All of our Founding Fathers were practicing Christians. This is fact. Loony Socialists/Progressives may not like this but it is still fact. Get over it. Geesh!

Isn't the belief that Jesus was/is the son of God fundamental to being a practicing Christian?

Or are you saying that if you call yourself a Christian and/or attend a Christian church occasionally, that makes you a Christian.

Being Christian is practicing what Christ taught and Or is that thought repugnant to you? And the Founders recognized something larger than themselves...whether they attended church or not matters NOT and I tag you for the attempted deflection.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

For crying out loud, you libs need to get over the fact our nation was founded on Christian/Judeo principles. I know you don't like that fact and you spend an inordinate amount of time and energy trying to convince people that somehow being a "deist" is not being a "Christian" or whatever.

Why is it so important to you to convince others that our founders were not men of God? Why the nitpicking bullshit?

They won't tell you this.....but it is...

Because liberals/socialists/progressives/communists/anti-Americans wish to severe the tie that we Americans have with God.....

Because they wish to destroy our belief that our rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness are God-given....

Because they wish to squeeze Government in between us and our natural Creator...

Because they wish to replace our belief in God with the belief that Government is the ultimate arbiter and giver (and taker) of your rights....

Because liberals/socialists/progressives/communists/anti-Americans are (by-and-large) non-believers in God.....

Because God frustrates them and gets in their way.....

Because ultimately man-made Government = their "God"....

 

[The T]

For crying out loud, you libs need to get over the fact our nation was founded on Christian/Judeo principles. I know you don't like that fact and you spend an inordinate amount of time and energy trying to convince people that somehow being a "deist" is not being a "Christian" or whatever.

Why is it so important to you to convince others that our founders were not men of God? Why the nitpicking bullshit?

They won't tell you this.....but it is...

Because liberals/socialists/progressives/communists/anti-Americans wish to severe the tie that we Americans have with God.....

Because they wish to destroy our belief that our rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness are God-given....

Because they wish to squeeze Government in between us and our natural Creator...

Because they wish to replace our belief in God with the belief that Government is the ultimate arbiter and giver (and taker) of your rights....

Because liberals/socialists/progressives/communists/anti-Americans are (by-and-large) non-believers in God.....

Because God frustrates them and gets in their way.....

Because ultimately man-made Government = their "God"....

And having a belief in a diety larger than ones self brings Morality and anchored principle to the table.

And the Statists cannot let either hamper their ill designs of control over others.

Bottom line.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Jesus was God incarnate upon the Earth that came to proclaim the new covenant between God and man.
Though he is professed to be the Son of God...then would he not be an extension of God in the Flesh?

That is what I mean.

From Matthew 16:


13When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
14And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
15He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
18And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. 20Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.

_______________

Just my take.

This is actually a subject of a separate thread, but suffice it to say that the belief that Jesus is God was not one that was not part of mainstream doctrine until after Constantine and the Council of Nicea.

I understand. But bear in mind I am independent and not attached to any one doctrine. It's all my understanding...my take.

Thanks.

~T

I can live with that. If you ever do want to discuss it let me know, otherwise we can just accept we disagree.

~QW

 

[NYcarbineer]

The Christian system of religion is an outrage on common sense.

(Thomas Paine, one of your so-called Christian founders)

 

[The T]

This is actually a subject of a separate thread, but suffice it to say that the belief that Jesus is God was not one that was not part of mainstream doctrine until after Constantine and the Council of Nicea.

I understand. But bear in mind I am independent and not attached to any one doctrine. It's all my understanding...my take.

Thanks.

~T

I can live with that. If you ever do want to discuss it let me know, otherwise we can just accept we disagree.

~QW

One day we will. I don't think we're that far apart.

Regards,

~T

 

[Quantum Windbag]

More old & stale Socialist/Progressive B.S. All of our Founding Fathers were practicing Christians. This is fact. Loony Socialists/Progressives may not like this but it is still fact. Get over it. Geesh!

Isn't the belief that Jesus was/is the son of God fundamental to being a practicing Christian?

Or are you saying that if you call yourself a Christian and/or attend a Christian church occasionally, that makes you a Christian.

It is only fundamental to those who don't understand his teachings.

 

[The T]

The Christian system of religion is an outrage on common sense.

(Thomas Paine, one of your so-called Christian founders)

And Mr. Paine was in his right to state his belief. And so what? And why do you think the First Amendment reflects what it does?

And he was speaking of organized religion.

Got an answer for that one? Do ya?

 

[dilloduck]

The Christian system of religion is an outrage on common sense.

(Thomas Paine, one of your so-called Christian founders)

We call those "exceptions to the rule".

 

[Jack Fate]

They absolutely addressed the issue of slavery, and decided that it was tolerable. In fact it was pretty much a foregone conclusion that slavery was tolerable within the context of the original Constitution.

How can you "address" something when it is not mentioned? The US Constitution ignores slavery until it was outlawed.

Did slaves enjoy the protections offered in the Bill of Rights?

What was the 3/5ths Compromise about?

I see what you're saying. I was referring to the issue of "slavery", not taxes.