The thinking surrounding the Hamas/Israel conflict is far too binary.

[berg80]

These were in response to hamas and terrorist attacks. Unfortunately, there will always be civilians that are caught up in hamas horrific terrorism.

The larger point is Israel is not without culpability in this never ceasing cycle of violence.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

The larger point is Israel is not without culpability in this never ceasing cycle of violence.

Im not disagreeing with that.

 

[berg80]

Facts which must be ignored by politically correct antisemites.

Pointing out Israel is not without culpability in this never ceasing cycle of violence is not being anti-Semitic. Believing otherwise is an example of binary thinking.

 

[buttercup]

This place is for the "All Things Binary" World Champions .

Best post I've seen all week. Thank you, I actually did L O L.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Is it something that needs to be addressed as part of any future negotiation between the two sides? Yes.

It will be -- eventually.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

I have been paying attention to useful idiots on message boards for decades now, and they like to follow this similar pattern.

They try to claim that they are just trying to see both sides of the issue even as they only hammer on the Jews while repeating every stupid cliche' that Islamists have created for them like "open air prison" and whatnot.

Morons

 

[Harry Dresden]

Unfortunately many Americans know nothing about the terrible treatment of Palestinians, nor do they know of the numerous atrocities committed by Israel against Palestinians for decades. They do know a lot about atrocities committed by Muslims against Israelis.

Proving Americans are the most propagandized people on the planet.

how come even the arab world does not seem to want Palestinians on their lands?...just asking...

 

[Harry Dresden]

I'm posting this for context so the board can consider the past actions of Israel. Which is not to say Hamas hasn't done atrocious things too.

On 5 August, Israel launched an offensive on the Gaza Strip targeting the Palestinian Islamic Jihad and its armed wing, destroying or damaging some 1,700 Palestinian homes and displacing hundreds of civilians. The Israeli army and Palestinian armed groups committed apparent war crimes during the three days of fighting. (See State of Palestine entry.)3

According to the UN, 49 Palestinians were killed, including 31 civilians. Amnesty International established that Israeli forces killed 17 of the civilians, including eight children. Seven civilians, including four children, were killed by a rocket that misfired apparently launched by a Palestinian armed group. On 7 August, an Israeli missile, apparently fired by a drone, hit Al-Falluja cemetery in Jabalia refugee camp, killing five children and injuring one, in an apparent direct attack on civilians or indiscriminate attack.

West Bank​

Israeli forces killed 151 Palestinians in the occupied West Bank, including East Jerusalem, and injured 9,875, according to OCHA-OPT, amid a surge of military incursions that involved excessive use of force, including unlawful killings and apparent extrajudicial executions.4 Defense for Children International-Palestine reported that Israeli forces or settlers killed 36 children across the West Bank and East Jerusalem.

so what happened to cause these attacks?....

 

[Sixties Fan]

Absurd. Israel controls both border crossings, the water supply, the supply of electricity, the movements of the residents of Gaza.

Egypt controls Rafa and does not want Palestinians in Egypt. Do you care to find out why by yourself?

 

[Oddball]

.. while repeating every stupid cliche' that Islamists have created for them like "open air prison" and whatnot.

What do you call a place that votes 99% for anyone?

 

[Sixties Fan]

The larger point is Israel is not without culpability in this never ceasing cycle of violence.

As you choose sources which fill your point of view, the facts will never come out.

 

[Donald H]

One should be able to recognize the recent, horrific acts by Hamas on the Gaza border and simultaneously acknowledge Israel's decades long mistreatment of Palestinians in the occupied territories without being accused of being a sympathizer of Hamas. Does Israel's oppression of Palestinians justify what Hamas did?

War justifies any and everything. The eventual victors will decide on justice for the vanquished and complete vindication for it's own.

Specifically, to this conflict. Can anybody imagine what can't be jjustified after 75 years of torture and death to the Palestinian people by the Zionist apartheid regime?

 

[berg80]

I have been paying attention to useful idiots on message boards for decades now,

So long you've become one.

 

[berg80]

War justifies any and everything.

No it doesn't. Any and everything in the way of terrible atrocities happens in war, but it's never justified.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

One should be able to recognize the recent, horrific acts by Hamas on the Gaza border and simultaneously acknowledge Israel's decades long mistreatment of Palestinians in the occupied territories without being accused of being a sympathizer of Hamas. Does Israel's oppression of Palestinians justify what Hamas did? Of course not. Is it something that needs to be addressed as part of any future negotiation between the two sides? Yes.
One step in the right direction would be for Israel to stop expanding the settlements in the territories along with sacking Netanyahu.

Human rights in Israel and Occupied Palestinian Territories

Stay up to date on the state of human rights in Israel and Occupied Palestinian Territories with the latest research, campaigns and education material from Amnesty International.

www.amnesty.org

The Jews are going to wipe Hamas out.

And justifiably so

 

[bendog]

One should be able to recognize the recent, horrific acts by Hamas on the Gaza border and simultaneously acknowledge Israel's decades long mistreatment of Palestinians in the occupied territories without being accused of being a sympathizer of Hamas. Does Israel's oppression of Palestinians justify what Hamas did? Of course not. Is it something that needs to be addressed as part of any future negotiation between the two sides? Yes.
One step in the right direction would be for Israel to stop expanding the settlements in the territories along with sacking Netanyahu.

Human rights in Israel and Occupied Palestinian Territories

Stay up to date on the state of human rights in Israel and Occupied Palestinian Territories with the latest research, campaigns and education material from Amnesty International.

www.amnesty.org

If Israel wants to "delay" any diplomacy until after they arrest or kill every Pale who is a member of Hamas ... I'm ok with it. Any argument about symmetry between Israel and Hamas is absurd.

I'm not sure Israel can really accomplish that goal, though.

If anyone wants to wonder why the Arab states fund Hamas and telling the Pales they can somehow defeat "the Jews" and drive them out and the Pales can return to Israel ... I wonder too. And Bibi no more wants peace than does Hamas. But, Hamas just turned that comparison into a logical fallacy.

 

[bendog]

No it doesn't. Any and everything in the way of terrible atrocities happens in war, but it's never justified.

Oh war is justifiable. Ask the 9-11 families. But it's generally best to actually attack those who attack you, rather than some other group of horrible people.

 

[berg80]

As you choose sources which fill your point of view, the facts will never come out.

My point of view is that we can't look at the conflict pretending one side or the other can or should be absolved for their part in it. It has been pointed out how illiberal Muslim societies are. How much more tolerant Israeli society is. I agree. How much closer Israel's society is to ours in terms of governmental practices, having a developed judiciary, free press, again I agree. But it's my opinion that Israel bears some responsibility for the terrible living conditions in Gaza. And that it was unrealistic to think they could continue without eliciting a reaction.

 

[Sixties Fan]

My point of view is that we can't look at the conflict pretending one side or the other can or should be absolved for their part in it. It has been pointed out how illiberal Muslim societies are. How much more tolerant Israeli society is. I agree. How much closer Israel's society is to ours in terms of governmental practices, having a developed judiciary, free press, again I agree. But it's my opinion that Israel bears some responsibility for the terrible living conditions in Gaza. And that it was unrealistic to think they could continue without eliciting a reaction.

Both Israel and Egypt have blockades on Gaza for a reason.

The reason is Hamas. A terrorist which spends all the money it gets from Iran and Qatar to build things eventually used to attack Israel with the intention of killing people and hopefully destroy the country.

Opinion is worthless without facts and unfortunately someone like you lives and breaths off opinions and not facts.

There have been no protests against Hamas's attack from Gaza inhabitants. They do not have weapons, they would be killed by Hamas and all other groups there.

Their reaction is about the existence of Israel, which is Jewish and not Muslim, and they cannot have it stand.

That has been the Muslim reaction from 1920 with the Mandate for Palestine, which is why Jews had to fight for their lives and creating the country with very high losses in order to have, legally, again their Nation where they could defend themselves.


The wars against Israel never stopped. The attacks on Israel never stopped.

What triggers every reaction by extreme Muslims?


Israel exists and so Jews. And both must go.

 

[1srelluc]

This is the binary choice the Palis have.



They could turn on Hamas in a instant if the will was there.....I don't suspect it is so they die.