The Red/Grey Chips Weren't Thermite After All

[Triton]

I'm no expert here, but a couple of things from the MVA's "progress report" did pique my interest:

At the time of this progress report, the identity of the product from which the red/gray chips were generated has not been determined. The composition of the red/gray chips found in this study (epoxy resin with iron oxide and kaolin pigments) does not match the formula for the primer paint used on the World Trade Center towers. (table 1)[16] Although both the red/gray chips and the primer paint contain iron oxide pigment particles, the primer is an alkyd-based resin with zinc yellow (zinc chromate) and diatomaceous silica along with some other proprietary (Tnemec) pigments. No diatoms were found during the analysis of the red/gray chips. Some small EDS peaks of zinc and chromium were detected in some samples but the amount detected was inconsistent with the 20% level of zinc chromate in the primer formula.

Material Safety Data Sheets (MSDS) contain some information about product materials. According to the MSDS currently listed on the Tnemec website,[17] 55 out of the 177 Tnemec coating products contain one or two of the three major components in the red layer: iron oxide and/or kaolin (aluminum silicate) pigments. However, none of the 177 different coatings is a match for the red layer coating found in this study. [emphasis Capstone's]

So this report simultaneously supports the paint scheme explanation for the presence of iron oxide and aluminum silicate ...and debunks it via the concession that no such formula for primer paint exists.

Also from the MVA report:

Chips of interest were ashed in a muffle furnace using a NEY Temperature Programmable furnace operated at 400 [degrees C] for 1 hour.[emphasis Capstone's]

What's interesting about the temperature highlighted above is that it was apparently low enough to avoid the ignition reaction reported in Harrit's paper.

From the abstract to Harrit's paper:

When ignited in a DSC device the chips exhibit large but narrow exotherms occurring at approximately 430 °C, far below the normal ignition temperature for conventional thermite. Numerous iron-rich spheres are clearly observed in the residue following the ignition of these peculiar red/gray chips. The red portion of these chips is found to be an unreacted thermitic material and highly energetic.[emphasis Capstone's]

If the point was to debunk Harrit's conclusions, why didn't the MVA scientists simply repeat his methodology?

But all of the egghead stuff aside, until someone explains how a 47-story skyscraper (that wasn't hit by an airplane or even a significant amount of debris from the other fallen buildings) can collapse symmetrically into its own footprint in less than 7 seconds ...without the use of explosives, I'll continue to have no choice but to believe that explosives were used.

On a personal level, it's not like I want to believe this kind of shit about elements of my own country's government. If anything, my efforts have been aimed at finding reasons not to believe it. Problem is: those reasons are scarce to begin with ...and the few I've found have never stood even the most superficial tests of scrutiny.

The debunktwats avoid WTC 7 like the plague. They know their bullshit explanations bear zero credibility.


But they'll continue to applaud themselves for debunking holograms and having paint chips without thermite.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

The kind that supports the Toofer's whacked-out theories, of course.....

Now that's the sort of erudite scholarship I've come to expect from most proponents of the official 'conspiracy theory'.

thats all it is is a theory without a shread of evidence to back it up.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

I'm no expert here, but a couple of things from the MVA's "progress report" did pique my interest:

At the time of this progress report, the identity of the product from which the red/gray chips were generated has not been determined. The composition of the red/gray chips found in this study (epoxy resin with iron oxide and kaolin pigments) does not match the formula for the primer paint used on the World Trade Center towers. (table 1)[16] Although both the red/gray chips and the primer paint contain iron oxide pigment particles, the primer is an alkyd-based resin with zinc yellow (zinc chromate) and diatomaceous silica along with some other proprietary (Tnemec) pigments. No diatoms were found during the analysis of the red/gray chips. Some small EDS peaks of zinc and chromium were detected in some samples but the amount detected was inconsistent with the 20% level of zinc chromate in the primer formula.

Material Safety Data Sheets (MSDS) contain some information about product materials. According to the MSDS currently listed on the Tnemec website,[17] 55 out of the 177 Tnemec coating products contain one or two of the three major components in the red layer: iron oxide and/or kaolin (aluminum silicate) pigments. However, none of the 177 different coatings is a match for the red layer coating found in this study. [emphasis Capstone's]

So this report simultaneously supports the paint scheme explanation for the presence of iron oxide and aluminum silicate ...and debunks it via the concession that no such formula for primer paint exists.

Also from the MVA report:



What's interesting about the temperature highlighted above is that it was apparently low enough to avoid the ignition reaction reported in Harrit's paper.

From the abstract to Harrit's paper:

When ignited in a DSC device the chips exhibit large but narrow exotherms occurring at approximately 430 °C, far below the normal ignition temperature for conventional thermite. Numerous iron-rich spheres are clearly observed in the residue following the ignition of these peculiar red/gray chips. The red portion of these chips is found to be an unreacted thermitic material and highly energetic.[emphasis Capstone's]

If the point was to debunk Harrit's conclusions, why didn't the MVA scientists simply repeat his methodology?

But all of the egghead stuff aside, until someone explains how a 47-story skyscraper (that wasn't hit by an airplane or even a significant amount of debris from the other fallen buildings) can collapse symmetrically into its own footprint in less than 7 seconds ...without the use of explosives, I'll continue to have no choice but to believe that explosives were used.

On a personal level, it's not like I want to believe this kind of shit about elements of my own country's government. If anything, my efforts have been aimed at finding reasons not to believe it. Problem is: those reasons are scarce to begin with ...and the few I've found have never stood even the most superficial tests of scrutiny.

The debunktwats avoid WTC 7 like the plague. They know their bullshit explanations bear zero credibility.


But they'll continue to applaud themselves for debunking holograms and having paint chips without thermite.

yeah they wont even touch bld 7,they wont touch it because they know they cant get around Barry Jennings testimony.their COINCIDENCE THEORY they have that all three towers owned by JEW silverstein collapsed due to fires for the first time in history and other buildings much closer and damaged 100 times worse did not collapse that day not owned by Silverstein,makes me roll on the floor in laughter everytime. Hell a grade school gradute would even own THESE trolls in a debate.they would be declared a loser by the teacher in a heartbeat the way they debate.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

what I just now noticed about that link from reading the first page is that is goes on to say what I have been saying all along since sept 11th 2001 that you dont have to be an architec or engineer expert to know the official explanation of the collapse of the towers is b.s all you got to to si have a grasp of 7th grade physics to know its b.s.IT says that on that link.Not me.
great to see someone say what I have said over a thousand times over the years on this site that to accept the official version of the collapse of the towers is ignoring the laws of physics.lol .that you only need a 7th grade education on the laws of physics to know explosives brought the towers down.Funny that Im not the only one saying that now,that someone else is,an architect no less.

You Bush dupes can deny it all you want,but you constantly proves in everyone of your posts that its true,that you all dtiched junior high school science classes. you can only fling shit in defeat like the monkey trolls you are. and get brainwashed by agent trolls Moron In the hat and dawgshit.yep.lol.

OK, so what explosives are you going to say brought down the towers now that thermXte is out of the picture??

it is hardly out of the picture because some numb nuts who calls himself an "amateur debunker" before even starting this project writes an article that has not even been peer reviewed

amen to that.

 

[Rat in the Hat]

I'm no expert here, but a couple of things from the MVA's "progress report" did pique my interest:



So this report simultaneously supports the paint scheme explanation for the presence of iron oxide and aluminum silicate ...and debunks it via the concession that no such formula for primer paint exists.

Also from the MVA report:



What's interesting about the temperature highlighted above is that it was apparently low enough to avoid the ignition reaction reported in Harrit's paper.

From the abstract to Harrit's paper:



If the point was to debunk Harrit's conclusions, why didn't the MVA scientists simply repeat his methodology?

But all of the egghead stuff aside, until someone explains how a 47-story skyscraper (that wasn't hit by an airplane or even a significant amount of debris from the other fallen buildings) can collapse symmetrically into its own footprint in less than 7 seconds ...without the use of explosives, I'll continue to have no choice but to believe that explosives were used.

On a personal level, it's not like I want to believe this kind of shit about elements of my own country's government. If anything, my efforts have been aimed at finding reasons not to believe it. Problem is: those reasons are scarce to begin with ...and the few I've found have never stood even the most superficial tests of scrutiny.

The debunktwats avoid WTC 7 like the plague. They know their bullshit explanations bear zero credibility.


But they'll continue to applaud themselves for debunking holograms and having paint chips without thermite.

yeah they wont even touch bld 7,they wont touch it because they know they cant get around Barry Jennings testimony.their COINCIDENCE THEORY they have that all three towers owned by JEW silverstein collapsed due to fires for the first time in history and other buildings much closer and damaged 100 times worse did not collapse that day not owned by Silverstein,makes me roll on the floor in laughter everytime. Hell a grade school gradute would even own THESE trolls in a debate.they would be declared a loser by the teacher in a heartbeat the way they debate.

Don't you have to leave? I heard it's your turn to kiss Pope Gage's ass.

 

[peach174]

the truth movement has been asking for a new investigation, and they got one. Unfortunately for them, it didn't go the way they hoped. Based on the new tests, the chips that harrit, et; al called "thermite" in their bentham paper were actually primer paint.

red/gray chips that had the same morphology and appearance as those reported by
harrit et al.1, and fitting the criteria of being attracted by a magnet and having the semeds
x-ray elemental spectra described in their paper (gray: Fe, red: C,o, al, si, fe)
were found in the wtc dust from all four locations examined. The red layers were in
the range of 15 to 30 micrometers thick. The gray layers were in the range of 10 to
50 micrometers thick (appendix b).
The ftir spectra of the red layer were consistent with reference spectra of an epoxy
resin and kaolin clay (figure 9) (appendix c).

the red/gray chips found in the wtc dust at four sites in new york city are consistent
with a carbon steel coated with an epoxy resin that contains primarily iron oxide and
kaolin clay pigments.
There is no evidence of individual elemental aluminum particles of any size in the
red/gray chips, therefore the red layer of the red/gray chips is not thermite or nanothermite.

here is the link to the complete article...

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/64959841/9119progressreport022912_rev1_030112web.pdf

and here is a link to the company that did the research...

home - mva scientific consultants, inc.


i wonder if the truthers will be asking for any more investigations anytime soon?

your hurtin home page link is all but pointless and your link to the full article does not work ..you got to do better than that

I don't have any problems with the link to the full article.

 

[eots]

the truth movement has been asking for a new investigation, and they got one. Unfortunately for them, it didn't go the way they hoped. Based on the new tests, the chips that harrit, et; al called "thermite" in their bentham paper were actually primer paint.







here is the link to the complete article...

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/64959841/9119progressreport022912_rev1_030112web.pdf

and here is a link to the company that did the research...

home - mva scientific consultants, inc.


i wonder if the truthers will be asking for any more investigations anytime soon?

your hurtin home page link is all but pointless and your link to the full article does not work ..you got to do better than that

I don't have any problems with the link to the full article.

it works now

 

[hortysir]

The kind that supports the Toofer's whacked-out theories, of course.....

Now that's the sort of erudite scholarship I've come to expect from most proponents of the official 'conspiracy theory'.

thats all it is is a theory without a shread of evidence to back it up.

The OP obliterated half of your "theory".

Now what?

 

[eots]

Now that's the sort of erudite scholarship I've come to expect from most proponents of the official 'conspiracy theory'.

thats all it is is a theory without a shread of evidence to back it up.

The OP obliterated half of your "theory".

Now what?

hows that ?

 

[daws101]

thats all it is is a theory without a shread of evidence to back it up.

The OP obliterated half of your "theory".

Now what?

hows that ?

the eot's song:[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzY2Qcu5i2A]The Offspring - Pretty Fly (For A White Guy) - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Capstone]

The OP obliterated half of your "theory".

Assuming the red layer is a perfectly innocent form of primer paint, what the study in the OP obliterates is any chance that the MVA's sample chips are bits of the WTC's structural columns or beams. In other words: it eliminates the most plausible source for a common primer formula. Considering the sheer abundance of those red/gray chips, that's a SERIOUS problem for the Paint Scheme Hypothesis.

But equally important as what the study obliterates ...is what it creates: specifically the question as to why low temperature techniques were maintained throughout the study, when a single high-temp procedure could have either confirmed or rebuffed the ignition reaction reported by Harrit et al. The absence of such a procedure is inherently suspicious to begin with; but it's even more so in light of the failure of the attempted solvent-based dispersion.

Now what?

Backatcha'...

 

[Capstone]

Incidentally, the abundance of those red/gray chips isn't the least bit problematic for proponents of the Truth Movement. In fact, the idea that the energetic red layer may have been painted (so to speak) onto the structural columns and beams in the weeks and months leading up to 9/11/01 ...is actually supported by it. The support steel could well have been primed by the formula on those chips -- primed to explode, that is...

 

[JWBooth]

The Truth Movement has been asking for a new investigation, and they got one. Unfortunately for them, it didn't go the way they hoped. Based on the new tests, the chips that Harrit, et; al called "thermite" in their Bentham paper were actually primer paint.


I wonder if the Truthers will be asking for any more investigations anytime soon?

Fiendishly clever disguising thermite as Glidden house paint primer.

 

[Capstone]

Fiendishly clever disguising thermite as Glidden house paint primer.

The irony is that the hand of reality might end up slapping the tongue right out of your cheek.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

Now that's the sort of erudite scholarship I've come to expect from most proponents of the official 'conspiracy theory'.

thats all it is is a theory without a shread of evidence to back it up.

The OP obliterated half of your "theory".

Now what?

sorry but my link I posted with all the tons of information shoots down agent rats lies.If you ever read any of his posts you would know thats all he ever does around here.Witnesses testimonys and known facts shoot down his lies as well.

theres thousands of tons of information in there that debunks the ramblings of this proven liar.we both know you wotn read it though.Octas only see what they want to see.

 

[daws101]

Incidentally, the abundance of those red/gray chips isn't the least bit problematic for proponents of the Truth Movement. In fact, the idea that the energetic red layer may have been painted (so to speak) onto the structural columns and beams in the weeks and months leading up to 9/11/01 ...is actually supported by it. The support steel could well have been primed by the formula on those chips -- primed to explode, that is...

 

[daws101]

thats all it is is a theory without a shread of evidence to back it up.

The OP obliterated half of your "theory".

Now what?

sorry but my link I posted with all the tons of information shoots down agent rats lies.If you ever read any of his posts you would know thats all he ever does around here.Witnesses testimonys and known facts shoot down his lies as well.

wrong again handjob! eye/ear witness testimony is meaningless without solid empirical evidence to back it up...

what the fuck are know facts?

 

[LA RAM FAN]

two farts in a row from you dawgshit.congrats.

 

[daws101]

two farts in a row from you dawgshit.congrats.

they probably have killed off many people that were involved in this already.dead men cant talk.---handjob[/QUOTE]

arrrgh!!

 

[Rat in the Hat]

thats all it is is a theory without a shread of evidence to back it up.

The OP obliterated half of your "theory".

Now what?

sorry but my link I posted with all the tons of information shoots down agent rats lies.If you ever read any of his posts you would know thats all he ever does around here.Witnesses testimonys and known facts shoot down his lies as well.

theres thousands of tons of information in there that debunks the ramblings of this proven liar.we both know you wotn read it though.Octas only see what they want to see.

Let's look at the experiments Truthers do, and compare with Dr. Millette's experiments, shall we.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIWz7lbyYjk]THE 9/11TRUTHER EXPERIMENTS. - YouTube[/ame]

Their very best experiments start at the 11:00 minute mark.