The Problem of Evil

[Thunderbird]

Why does God allow suffering and evil? Christians can answer:

1) It is good for God to give people freedom, but some people misuse their freedom and reject Jesus' call for forgiveness, kindness, and human dignity.

2) God also gives angels freedom. Some angels are fallen (like Satan) and cause suffering - for example bringing about natural disasters.

Satan and the Corruption of Nature: Seven Arguments – ReKnew
-
Book Review: Satan and the Problem of Evil: Constructing a Trinitarian Warfare Theodicy - Gregory A. Boyd

Satan has suffered defeats, but he is still powerful:

Ephesians 6:12 - For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

3) Suffering can lead to good. I'm sure we can all think of times when suffering has led to personal growth. What would life be without challenges? Should we spend our lives lounging on comfy pillows eating potato chips and watching reruns while someone tells us how wonderful we are?

4) The earthly death we suffer is not the end, but the beginning.

5) God's noble goals come intertwined with suffering.

Dr. Francis Collins: the same forces that produced a life-sustaining planet including the laws of physics, chemistry, weather and tectonics, can also produce natural disasters.

Here's John Polkinghorne: Cosmic Questions - Polkinghorne: The Problem of Evil

 

[Moonglow]

You God is evidently to weak to destroy the Devil or evil....

 

[the_human_being]

You God is evidently to weak to destroy the Devil or evil....

Why would He wish to destroy either of them since He created both? Here's a good read:

The Difference between Evil and Sin

 

[Thunderbird]

You God is evidently to weak to destroy the Devil or evil....

Or He respects the freedom of His creations.

 

[HaShev]

Sometimes the greatest evil is that which comes to us claiming itself pure love and peace through mere lip service and it's devotion, ideology, precepts are the farthest from it.
One problem is in humanity discerning right from wrong, good from evil that is no longer subjective when you have the source and power of LIFE (God) defined properly. The making of illusions of good or evil based on affiliation or devotion to it's eglomaniac iconic image is the ultimate evil, especially when it leads to the thousands of wars, millions of murders, and majority of members sitting in jails. This is why the iconographs show The false prophet Lucifer holding down the judgement scales trying to deceive humanity's capability to properly read the balance of good vs evil, deeds,and of the value to humanity when in proper Judgement for affective discernment.

 

[Thunderbird]

Here's Aquinas on the subject: SUMMA THEOLOGICA: The cause of evil (Prima Pars, Q. 49)

 

[the_human_being]

There is none righteous, no not one. The problem is that we are all human and subject to a carnal mind. None of us know the truth. We are promised though that one day we will know the truth. Even the smartest preacher is dumber than an ox. God gave us a helper and a guide for us to listen to and to follow. He gave each and every one of us a conscience. Even the most hardened atheist and agnostic possesses a conscience. I condemn no one. The Christ came not to condemn the world but to save the world. That was the very mission God the Father sent Him to accomplish. I'll not hinder his mission.


1Jn_4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

 

[Thunderbird]

Sometimes the greatest evil is that which comes to us claiming itself pure love and peace through mere lip service and it's devotion, ideology, precepts are the farthest from it.
One problem is in humanity discerning right from wrong, good from evil that is no longer subjective when you have the source and power of LIFE (God) defined properly. The making of illusions of good or evil based on affiliation or devotion to it's eglomaniac iconic image is the ultimate evil, especially when it leads to the thousands of wars, millions of murders, and majority of members sitting in jails. This is why the iconographs show The false prophet Lucifer holding down the judgement scales trying to deceive humanity's capability to properly read the balance of good vs evil, deeds,and of the value to humanity when in proper Judgement for affective discernment.

Yes we've all read about your peculiar conspiracy theory that purports to justify your hatred of non-Jews.

 

[HaShev]

Sometimes the greatest evil is that which comes to us claiming itself pure love and peace through mere lip service and it's devotion, ideology, precepts are the farthest from it.
One problem is in humanity discerning right from wrong, good from evil that is no longer subjective when you have the source and power of LIFE (God) defined properly. The making of illusions of good or evil based on affiliation or devotion to it's eglomaniac iconic image is the ultimate evil, especially when it leads to the thousands of wars, millions of murders, and majority of members sitting in jails. This is why the iconographs show The false prophet Lucifer holding down the judgement scales trying to deceive humanity's capability to properly read the balance of good vs evil, deeds,and of the value to humanity when in proper Judgement for affective discernment.

Yes we've all read about your peculiar conspiracy theory that purports to justify your hatred of non-Jews.

Don't you mean your hatred of Jews who point out the obvious hatred Christians have for anyone who doesn't drink the coolaid.
Hate is those who agree with your sin through group affiliation and humoring your insistant vile and lying, true love is willingness to sacrifice your opinion of them to tell you what you need to hear not what you want to hear. So your confusion over love and hate is through your affiliation pride thus your own hate for the outsiders of your group even when they are what's true love....that which is telling you the unpopular truth and taking your vile for it-sacrificing for others.
It should be no surprise that the people who call life a sacrifice and death paradise would confuse love and hate as well. Notice every reply is filled with venom and mention of hate in displacement behavior.
-Psychology 101.

 

[Thunderbird]

Good can come from evil.

Paris attack hero: Man who rescued pregnant woman as she clung for life

 

[Thunderbird]

In Christianity God sides with those who suffer.

 

[irosie91]

Sometimes the greatest evil is that which comes to us claiming itself pure love and peace through mere lip service and it's devotion, ideology, precepts are the farthest from it.
One problem is in humanity discerning right from wrong, good from evil that is no longer subjective when you have the source and power of LIFE (God) defined properly. The making of illusions of good or evil based on affiliation or devotion to it's eglomaniac iconic image is the ultimate evil, especially when it leads to the thousands of wars, millions of murders, and majority of members sitting in jails. This is why the iconographs show The false prophet Lucifer holding down the judgement scales trying to deceive humanity's capability to properly read the balance of good vs evil, deeds,and of the value to humanity when in proper Judgement for affective discernment.

Yes we've all read about your peculiar conspiracy theory that purports to justify your hatred of non-Jews.

hashev did not mention non jews in his post

 

[BreezeWood]

.

Why does God allow suffering and evil? ...

4) The earthly death we suffer is not the end, but the beginning.

.
... is not the end


conquering evil before death is the goal ... to "end" evil not your life - Admission to the Everlasting.

.

 

[onefour1]

The greatest misconception in all Christendom is the doctrine of ex nihilo creation. The word create in Genesis does not imply ex nihilo creation. It is a false doctrine. So what does this have to do with the problem of evil? A great deal. God himself is a self-existent being. But the truth is that man also is self existent. There never was a time when we didn't exist. We have always existed as intelligences. God took of these intelligences and created spirit bodies for them. Thus we are all the literal spirit children of our Heavenly Father. He organized spirit matter with our intelligences. Later, when sent to this earth, we were again organized with more coarse material and thus we have a body.

But since we were originally self-existent, God could not create us to be perfect. You see, you can't create something out of nothing that already exists . Our primal intelligences were given bodies to help them learn to be more like the Father. In order to become like the father, we needed to learn to choose good in and of ourselves. Nobody tells God what to do. God does what he does of his own free will and choice. For us to become like him, we need to learn to choose good in and of ourselves. It is the only way for us to become like him. You can't force a person to be good because it isn't him doing the good but the one forcing him. A person must learn to choose good of his own volition. The two principals of self-existence and free will are the reasons we have evil. God could not create us to be perfect because you cannot create that which already exists to be perfect. It is what it is. God could force us to be perfect because we need to learn to do it own free will and choice. We go through the hard knocks of life to learn to become more like our Father in heaven. In the end we will all be immortal. We will look back on this earthly existence and realize that all we went through at the hand of God was for our own good and benefit. But evil is present in the world due to the imperfections and free will of man. When man chooses that which is against God, the world becomes less of a heaven and more of a hell. We all need to repent of our evil and seek to do good to one another. We need to love one another even as God has loved us.

Some good reference material for this reasoning is the video series:



Also a talk given by the prophet Joseph Smith known as The King Follett Discourse

 

[Abishai100]

Babylon the Great: Veil

The Bible suggests that women are susceptible to the temptations of power and luxury, and we see similar ideas echoed in modern storytelling such as "The Taming of the Shrew" (William Shakespeare).

The Bible also says that at the end of days, the mysterious harlot of Babylon will ride a beast of various powers and will be able to sit on thrones. Could the end of days mark our modern age of capitalism-catalyzed iniquities (i.e., profiteerism, poor welfare states, crime syndicates, etc.)? How would a child born with AIDS in the modern world be able to stand against the seductive harlot of Babylon?

Maybe evil is connected to disarray.






The Taming of the Shrew

 

[Thunderbird]

Sometimes the greatest evil is that which comes to us claiming itself pure love and peace through mere lip service and it's devotion, ideology, precepts are the farthest from it.
One problem is in humanity discerning right from wrong, good from evil that is no longer subjective when you have the source and power of LIFE (God) defined properly. The making of illusions of good or evil based on affiliation or devotion to it's eglomaniac iconic image is the ultimate evil, especially when it leads to the thousands of wars, millions of murders, and majority of members sitting in jails. This is why the iconographs show The false prophet Lucifer holding down the judgement scales trying to deceive humanity's capability to properly read the balance of good vs evil, deeds,and of the value to humanity when in proper Judgement for affective discernment.

Yes we've all read about your peculiar conspiracy theory that purports to justify your hatred of non-Jews.

Don't you mean your hatred of Jews who point out the obvious hatred Christians have for anyone who doesn't drink the coolaid.
Hate is those who agree with your sin through group affiliation and humoring your insistant vile and lying, true love is willingness to sacrifice your opinion of them to tell you what you need to hear not what you want to hear. So your confusion over love and hate is through your affiliation pride thus your own hate for the outsiders of your group even when they are what's true love....that which is telling you the unpopular truth and taking your vile for it-sacrificing for others.
It should be no surprise that the people who call life a sacrifice and death paradise would confuse love and hate as well. Notice every reply is filled with venom and mention of hate in displacement behavior.
-Psychology 101.

ZZZZZZZ Sorry your disconnected, sub-literate rants put me to sleep.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Why does God allow suffering and evil? Christians can answer:

1) It is good for God to give people freedom, but some people misuse their freedom and reject Jesus' call for forgiveness, kindness, and human dignity.

2) God also gives angels freedom. Some angels are fallen (like Satan) and cause suffering - for example bringing about natural disasters.

Satan and the Corruption of Nature: Seven Arguments – ReKnew
-
Book Review: Satan and the Problem of Evil: Constructing a Trinitarian Warfare Theodicy - Gregory A. Boyd

Satan has suffered defeats, but he is still powerful:

Ephesians 6:12 - For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

3) Suffering can lead to good. I'm sure we can all think of times when suffering has led to personal growth. What would life be without challenges? Should we spend our lives lounging on comfy pillows eating potato chips and watching reruns while someone tells us how wonderful we are?

4) The earthly death we suffer is not the end, but the beginning.

5) God's noble goals come intertwined with suffering.

Dr. Francis Collins: the same forces that produced a life-sustaining planet including the laws of physics, chemistry, weather and tectonics, can also produce natural disasters.

Here's John Polkinghorne: Cosmic Questions - Polkinghorne: The Problem of Evil

Without evil, good doesn't mean anything. Without a devil, God doesn't mean anything. If good is what we're to aspire to, there has to be evil in the world for the comparison. Thus, good can never triumph nor should it. If it did, with only good remaining, good has to split into 'more good' and 'less good' with 'less good' becomming the new evil.

There has to be conflict and comparison.

 

[BreezeWood]

Why does God allow suffering and evil? Christians can answer:

1) It is good for God to give people freedom, but some people misuse their freedom and reject Jesus' call for forgiveness, kindness, and human dignity.

2) God also gives angels freedom. Some angels are fallen (like Satan) and cause suffering - for example bringing about natural disasters.

Satan and the Corruption of Nature: Seven Arguments – ReKnew
-
Book Review: Satan and the Problem of Evil: Constructing a Trinitarian Warfare Theodicy - Gregory A. Boyd

Satan has suffered defeats, but he is still powerful:

Ephesians 6:12 - For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

3) Suffering can lead to good. I'm sure we can all think of times when suffering has led to personal growth. What would life be without challenges? Should we spend our lives lounging on comfy pillows eating potato chips and watching reruns while someone tells us how wonderful we are?

4) The earthly death we suffer is not the end, but the beginning.

5) God's noble goals come intertwined with suffering.

Dr. Francis Collins: the same forces that produced a life-sustaining planet including the laws of physics, chemistry, weather and tectonics, can also produce natural disasters.

Here's John Polkinghorne: Cosmic Questions - Polkinghorne: The Problem of Evil

Without evil, good doesn't mean anything. Without a devil, God doesn't mean anything. If good is what we're to aspire to, there has to be evil in the world for the comparison. Thus, good can never triumph nor should it. If it did, with only good remaining, good has to split into 'more good' and 'less good' with 'less good' becomming the new evil.

There has to be conflict and comparison.

.

There has to be conflict and comparison ... Without evil, good doesn't mean anything ... Without a devil, God doesn't mean anything.

what is wrong with the above is that conflict is choreographed between Good vs Evil whereas conflict is distinct to each irregardless the other ... conflict may be eternal however Evil is not and the triumph of one over the other is the goal per acquiescence to the Almighty and life beyond the physiological - to have a chance.

.

 

[Thunderbird]

This Theologian Has An Answer To Claims That Evil Disproves God

 

[ding]

Why does God allow suffering and evil? Christians can answer:

1) It is good for God to give people freedom, but some people misuse their freedom and reject Jesus' call for forgiveness, kindness, and human dignity.

2) God also gives angels freedom. Some angels are fallen (like Satan) and cause suffering - for example bringing about natural disasters.

Satan and the Corruption of Nature: Seven Arguments – ReKnew
-
Book Review: Satan and the Problem of Evil: Constructing a Trinitarian Warfare Theodicy - Gregory A. Boyd

Satan has suffered defeats, but he is still powerful:

Ephesians 6:12 - For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

3) Suffering can lead to good. I'm sure we can all think of times when suffering has led to personal growth. What would life be without challenges? Should we spend our lives lounging on comfy pillows eating potato chips and watching reruns while someone tells us how wonderful we are?

4) The earthly death we suffer is not the end, but the beginning.

5) God's noble goals come intertwined with suffering.

Dr. Francis Collins: the same forces that produced a life-sustaining planet including the laws of physics, chemistry, weather and tectonics, can also produce natural disasters.

Here's John Polkinghorne: Cosmic Questions - Polkinghorne: The Problem of Evil

The Bible has several literary types; allegorical, historical, law, poetic, prophetic, epistle and proverbial. I'm sure others may add or subtract to this list, but this is a pretty good start. When trying to understand the meaning of passages it is helpful to understand which literary type one is reading and also to place or read the passage in the proper historical light.

Let's start with the tree of knowledge of good and evil and the fall from grace. Genesis is allegorical. It starts with the allegorical account of Creation. After every step God would say "and it was good." So basically everything God created was good. Which makes sense because things like evil, darkness and cold or not extant. They don't exist on their own. They exist as the absence of something else. Cold is the absence of heat. Darkness is the absence of light. And evil is the absence of good.

Man knows right from wrong, but when he violates it, rather than abandoning the concept of right and wrong, he rationalizes that he didn't violate it. After Adam and Eve had sinned and realized they were naked, they hid when they heard God coming. They hid because they knew that they had done wrong. Then when God asked point blank if they had done it, they rationalized that it wasn't their fault. Adam, did you eat the apple? The woman you made gave it to me. Eve did you eat the apple? The serpent deceived me.

Man is the only animal capable of knowledge of good and evil. No other creature has this concept. Sure animals can have empathy, but not like man. Animals function on impulse and instinct. Man functions on these too, but in man's case he has the unique ability to override his impulses and instinct for the sake of good. That is free will. It's a choice. Everything is choice.

I don't believe that Genesis is implying that had Adam and Eve never committed the original sin, we would live in paradise forever. I believe Genesis is saying that man has the capacity to do good and evil. So then the question begs why did God create such a world. I believe that that is an artifact of life. In other words, I don't believe God had a choice. It is part and parcel of the extant nature of good. I know people will howl that I said God had no choice but the reality is there are things God can't do. For instance, God can't oppose Himself; He can't go against His own nature.

So there are two very interesting things which come out of free will. One is that evil has the effect of making good better. It's like salt and sugar. Salt makes sugar taste sweeter. We are told elsewhere that He uses all things for the good of those who love Him. Among other things the Jews discovered is that there is meaning in suffering. 07 Judaism

The other interesting thing is that good has no meaning unless there is evil. In other words, it is not virtuous if you are forced to be virtuous.

In closing, man prefers good over evil. We don't do evil for evil's sake. We do evil for the sake of our own good and when we do, we rationalize that we didn't do evil. But from these acts, goodness will arise and we will be stronger for it. It is a self compensating feature whose sole purpose is to propel consciousness to the next rung in the anthropological ladder.