The Great and Dreadful Day of the Lord

[onefour1]

John, in approximately half a chapter, has gone over 5 of the 7 seals. I believe that he was brief on these since they were mostly history or current events. As John continues in the book of Revelation, He covers the 6th seal in a little more depth by dedicating the remaining verses in chapter 6 and all of chapter 7 to it. He then begins covering the events of the 7th seal in chapter 8. This continues through chapter 11. Chapters 12-22 cover various topic and take us to the end of the millennial era and the end of the temporal existence of the earth.

It is my belief that the 6th seal began around 1034 and will end around 2033. The reason I believe this is because it was prophesied that Jesus would come to earth for his first coming in the meridian of time. Not only was it prophesied that he would come but that he would also die in the meridian of time.

Moses 6:57,62
57 Wherefore teach it unto your children, that all men, everywhere, must repent, or they can in nowise inherit the kingdom of God, for no unclean thing can dwell there, or dwell in his presence; for, in the language of Adam, Man of Holiness is his name, and the name of his Only Begotten is the Son of Man, even Jesus Christ, a righteous Judge, who shall come in the meridian of time.

62 And now, behold, I say unto you: This is the plan of salvation unto all men, through the blood of mine Only Begotten, who shall come in the meridian of time.

Moses 5:57
57 For they would not hearken unto his voice, nor believe on his Only Begotten Son, even him whom he declared should come in the meridian of time, who was prepared from before the foundation of the world.

Moses 7:45-47
45 And it came to pass that Enoch looked; and from Noah, he beheld all the families of the earth; and he cried unto the Lord, saying: When shall the day of the Lord come? When shall the blood of the Righteous be shed, that all they that mourn may be sanctified and have eternal life?
46 And the Lord said: It shall be in the meridian of time, in the days of wickedness and vengeance.
47 And behold, Enoch saw the day of the coming of the Son of Man, even in the flesh; and his soul rejoiced, saying: The Righteous is lifted up, and the Lamb is slain from the foundation of the world; and through faith I am in the bosom of the Father, and behold, Zion is with me.

I believe that the Meridian of Time is the middle time of our temporal existence. In other words, it is during the 4th seal or 4 thousand year period after the fall of Adam. I believe that Christ came toward the end of the 4th seal and closed out the 4th seal on a Jubilee year. Thus I believe the 5th seal opened just after the year of Christ's atonement and resurrection from the dead. I believe that Christ died in the year 33 A.D. Therefore the 5th seal would be from 34 A.D. to 1033 A.D. The 6th seal would be from 1034 A.D. to 2033 A.D. And the 7th seal would be from 2034 A.D. to 3033 A.D. If I am right, we only have 15 more years left in the 6th seal. These are my personal beliefs that I have come to from my personal study of scripture.

When each seal begins and ends is a mystery. If we could know the timing of the seals, we would have a better view of how close we are to the Lord's second coming. What you have read above is my best guess based on scripture. I believe the book that John saw that was sealed with seven seals represents the seven thousand years of this earth's temporal existence. I believe Jesus died in the year 33 A.D. I believe Jesus whole life on earth was spent in the meridian of time. I believe the meridian of time to be the time of the 4th seal. I believe the 4th seal ended at the end of the year 33 A.D. I believe the martyrs of Jesus mentioned in the 6th chapter of Revelation verses 9-11 were his apostles (excepting John) and those who were members of his church who were persecuted by Rome and others. I believe that John the Apostle has not yet died. But he is still on this earth until Jesus comes is all his glory:

Mark 9:1
1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.

 

[norwegen]

Christians who anticipate a corporeal return of Christ come up with one theory after another. Their eschatology is not scripture; it's theory. And crackpot theory at that.

No wonder skeptics ridicule and laugh.

 

[foggedinn]

Thessalonians 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

This Son of God has not yet been revealed. God's scapegoat will tell you the truth of it.

 

[norwegen]

What? The son of perdition is the son of God?

Incredible how mainstream fundamentalist Christians miss the message of the entire New Testament.

Elijah returned, as Jesus said. Armies surrounded Jerusalem, as Jesus said. Bloodshed, pestilence, and famine devastated the city, as Jesus said. The end of the age came, as Jesus said. And all the rest that would happen in his generation. It happened. Then that generation passed.

But then, maybe Jesus was wrong.

 

[foggedinn]

What? The son of perdition is the son of God?

Incredible how mainstream fundamentalist Christians miss the message of the entire New Testament.

Elijah returned, as Jesus said. Armies surrounded Jerusalem, as Jesus said. Bloodshed, pestilence, and famine devastated the city, as Jesus said. The end of the age came, as Jesus said. And all the rest that would happen in his generation. It happened. Then that generation passed.

But then, maybe Jesus was wrong.

The many mainstream fundamentalist Christians I have known all seem to believe that God has set up a battle between the Church and that "man of sin". That it is he task of the Church to oppose, contend with, and overcome this Son of God. They surely do seem to have missed the entire message of the New Testament.
The story of the Son of Perdition is the story of the wretch. Jesus established his Church to save the wretch, not beat him into submission. He is the Scapegoat of Leviticus 16, and his revelation heralds the end of the Day of Atonement.

 

[fncceo]

Malachi 4:5-6
5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:
6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

The great and dreadful day of the Lord is the day of Christ's second coming to the earth. For the righteous it will be a great day but for the wicked it will be a dreadful day. Christ will come to cleanse the earth of wickedness and will establish righteousness throughout the world. He will reign personally upon the earth for a thousand years in peace. But when will this second coming be?

Regarding the second coming of the Lord, we won't know the exact day or hour when he shall come.

Matthew 24:36
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

But as the parable of the fig tree tells us, we can know when it is close and that we should be prepared.

Matthew 24:32-33
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

God shall give us signs of the times. By these signs we shall know that his second coming is near, even at the doors. Matthew 24 is a main chapter which speaks of the second coming of our Lord. The book of Revelation is an entire book dedicated to this topic. But there are many other verses throughout scripture which give us more information. The purpose of this thread is to list and discuss the signs of the times and the scriptures that give us this knowledge.

I'm glad you found a song you like ... but ... do we all have to hear it?

 

[Karl Rand]

Christians who anticipate a corporeal return of Christ come up with one theory after another. Their eschatology is not scripture; it's theory. And crackpot theory at that.

No wonder skeptics ridicule and laugh.

And how do you know the crackpots of old didn’t get to scripture before you got to it?

 

[Karl Rand]

Mark 9:1
1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.

Some believers, Jehovah’s Witnesses come to mind, use this passage and others to delude themselves that on the ‘great day’ they will be transported from this realm becoming God’s themselves with their very own universe to manage. An absolutely terrifying idea. Mind you, you have to have been and awfully good JW to be given that job.

 

[norwegen]

Earlier, the great and terrible day of the Lord was the day the Babylonians took Jerusalem. Later, it was the day the Romans took it and put an end to the cult of temple.

That was the end times.

 

[hobelim]

What? The son of perdition is the son of God?

Incredible how mainstream fundamentalist Christians miss the message of the entire New Testament.

Elijah returned, as Jesus said. Armies surrounded Jerusalem, as Jesus said. Bloodshed, pestilence, and famine devastated the city, as Jesus said. The end of the age came, as Jesus said. And all the rest that would happen in his generation. It happened. Then that generation passed.

But then, maybe Jesus was wrong.

The saying "This generation" was based on the Jewish belief that there was a generation of darkness that would be followed by a generation of light, the Messianic age.

At the time of Jesus people thought the end of the age of darkness and the inauguration of Gods kingdom on earth was imminent. When Jesus said that " the end" was a long time off, they laughed him to scorn because everyone worth a shekel knew that God was about to fart angels out of the sky to destroy the roman invaders.

The generation that shall not pass away until everything he said was fulfilled, the destruction of the temple, the diaspora, the gospel being preached around the world, many false prophets, the antichrist, wars, persecutions, the ingathering etc., , is the generation of darkness.

The end of that generation, "the hour that darkness reigns" has not yet come.

Christians still think that Jesus was a god, Jews still think they can eat their way into holiness, atheists, as smart as they are, lol, can't figure out the metaphors of simple shepherds, and muslims profess to believe that a deranged pedophile was the perfect example of a holy man and prophet of God..

Remember what Jesus said? "your traditions have rendered the law of God, (the light of the nations), null and void.

See? Same as it ever was;

the earth is without shape or form and void and darkness covers the face of the deep.

Don't worry. I think I thought I heard a rooster..

 

[onefour1]

It is essential to understand the signs of the time in the context of the 6th and 7th seals. We are currently in the sixth seal and getting very near to the seventh seal. It is important to understand when a sign is to occur. Will it occur in the 6th seal or will it occur in the seventh seal. Let us now look at the signs that have been predicted and see if we can determine when they will occur.

The book of Revelation is quite clear that the last half of chapter 6 and 7 of Revelation will occur in the 6th seal. It is also clear that the events of chapter 8 through chapter 11 occur during the beginning of the 7th seal before Christ's return. Let us take a look at those chapters.

Revelation 6:12-17
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

I believe these prophesies will occur toward the end of the 6th seal. We are living in the time of the end of the 6th seal. Watch for these things to occur. The 7th chapter of Revelation is also very close. Here is what it says:

Revelation 7
1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.
7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.
8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

The meaning of the 144,000 who are sealed are also found in the revelation where we read about the meaning of the book and its seals:

Doctrine and Covenants 77:10-11
10 Q. What time are the things spoken of in this chapter to be accomplished?
A. They are to be accomplished in the sixth thousand years, or the opening of the sixth seal.
11 Q. What are we to understand by sealing the one hundred and forty-four thousand, out of all the tribes of Israel—twelve thousand out of every tribe?
A. We are to understand that those who are sealed are high priests, ordained unto the holy order of God, to administer the everlasting gospel; for they are they who are ordained out of every nation, kindred, tongue, and people, by the angels to whom is given power over the nations of the earth, to bring as many as will come to the church of the Firstborn.

The 144,000 are to help in the gather of Israel and the establishment of Zion in the last days.

 

[Karl Rand]

It is essential to understand the signs of the time in the context of the 6th and 7th seals. We are currently in the sixth seal and getting very near to the seventh seal. It is important to understand when a sign is to occur. Will it occur in the 6th seal or will it occur in the seventh seal. Let us now look at the signs that have been predicted and see if we can determine when they will occur.

The book of Revelation is quite clear that the last half of chapter 6 and 7 of Revelation will occur in the 6th seal. It is also clear that the events of chapter 8 through chapter 11 occur during the beginning of the 7th seal before Christ's return. Let us take a look at those chapters.

Revelation 6:12-17
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

I believe these prophesies will occur toward the end of the 6th seal. We are living in the time of the end of the 6th seal. Watch for these things to occur. The 7th chapter of Revelation is also very close. Here is what it says:

Revelation 7
1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.
7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.
8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

The meaning of the 144,000 who are sealed are also found in the revelation where we read about the meaning of the book and its seals:

Doctrine and Covenants 77:10-11
10 Q. What time are the things spoken of in this chapter to be accomplished?
A. They are to be accomplished in the sixth thousand years, or the opening of the sixth seal.
11 Q. What are we to understand by sealing the one hundred and forty-four thousand, out of all the tribes of Israel—twelve thousand out of every tribe?
A. We are to understand that those who are sealed are high priests, ordained unto the holy order of God, to administer the everlasting gospel; for they are they who are ordained out of every nation, kindred, tongue, and people, by the angels to whom is given power over the nations of the earth, to bring as many as will come to the church of the Firstborn.

The 144,000 are to help in the gather of Israel and the establishment of Zion in the last days.

Insanity takes many forms, your obsession I suggest is one of them.
Revelation is full of rich symbolism, allegory, and metaphor that is connected to events that transpire in history, but should not be confused for literal narrations or descriptions of events exactly as they transpire in history. Originally, the symbols and such helped early Christians make sense of the oppression and persecution they were enduring at the hands of the Roman Empire (an empire sustained by violence), and gave them language to express their hope and belief that the goodness of God would prevail, even though it didn’t always seem like that was the case. It is about God acting in history… It is not about God ending history
As is the case with Notrodamus, complex symbolic language, taken without knowledge or study of the original context can be presented with mistaken certainty as prediction.

 

[onefour1]

Christians who anticipate a corporeal return of Christ come up with one theory after another. Their eschatology is not scripture; it's theory. And crackpot theory at that.

No wonder skeptics ridicule and laugh.

Our resurrected Lord will come His second time with his resurrected body and will manifest it unto us all. His second coming has been described in scripture:

Zechariah 13:6
6 And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.

Doctrine and Covenants 45:47-53
47 Then shall the arm of the Lord fall upon the nations.
48 And then shall the Lord set his foot upon this mount, and it shall cleave in twain, and the earth shall tremble, and reel to and fro, and the heavens also shall shake.
49 And the Lord shall utter his voice, and all the ends of the earth shall hear it; and the nations of the earth shall mourn, and they that have laughed shall see their folly.
50 And calamity shall cover the mocker, and the scorner shall be consumed; and they that have watched for iniquity shall be hewn down and cast into the fire.
51 And then shall the Jews look upon me and say: What are these wounds in thine hands and in thy feet?
52 Then shall they know that I am the Lord; for I will say unto them: These wounds are the wounds with which I was wounded in the house of my friends. I am he who was lifted up. I am Jesus that was crucified. I am the Son of God.
53 And then shall they weep because of their iniquities; then shall they lament because they persecuted their king.

Acts 13:34-37
34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.

1 Corinthians 15:42,53
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
...
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

The mortal body is sown in corruption and will die and decompose. But when it is resurrected, it will become incorruptible and put on immortality. Christ is the first fruits of the resurrection. His body was raised from the dead no more to return to corruption. He hath said:

Revelation 1:18
18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

When Christ returns He surely will come as a resurrected being and we will see his mortal body and the Jews will lament when they see the wounds in his hands. The idea that he will not return in all his glory, which includes his resurrected body, is not scriptural and is a false notion.

 

[Karl Rand]

Christians who anticipate a corporeal return of Christ come up with one theory after another. Their eschatology is not scripture; it's theory. And crackpot theory at that.

No wonder skeptics ridicule and laugh.

It’s OK to be skeptical but laughing is probably going too far given many who fall for these interpretations either have mental health problems to begin with , have had them aggravated by evangelism or are simply so terrified of any kind of uncertaintly their urgent pressing need to believe in a guaranteed future has them trapped in a belief system they cannot give up.
Myself I’m more concerned with the reality of having an impetuous, childish ego driven madman in the Whitehouse having the power to press that red button.

 

[norwegen]

Christians who anticipate a corporeal return of Christ come up with one theory after another. Their eschatology is not scripture; it's theory. And crackpot theory at that.

No wonder skeptics ridicule and laugh.

Our resurrected Lord will come His second time with his resurrected body and will manifest it unto us all. His second coming has been described in scripture:

Zechariah 13:6
6 And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.

Doctrine and Covenants 45:47-53
47 Then shall the arm of the Lord fall upon the nations.
48 And then shall the Lord set his foot upon this mount, and it shall cleave in twain, and the earth shall tremble, and reel to and fro, and the heavens also shall shake.
49 And the Lord shall utter his voice, and all the ends of the earth shall hear it; and the nations of the earth shall mourn, and they that have laughed shall see their folly.
50 And calamity shall cover the mocker, and the scorner shall be consumed; and they that have watched for iniquity shall be hewn down and cast into the fire.
51 And then shall the Jews look upon me and say: What are these wounds in thine hands and in thy feet?
52 Then shall they know that I am the Lord; for I will say unto them: These wounds are the wounds with which I was wounded in the house of my friends. I am he who was lifted up. I am Jesus that was crucified. I am the Son of God.
53 And then shall they weep because of their iniquities; then shall they lament because they persecuted their king.

Acts 13:34-37
34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.

1 Corinthians 15:42,53
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
...
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

The mortal body is sown in corruption and will die and decompose. But when it is resurrected, it will become incorruptible and put on immortality. Christ is the first fruits of the resurrection. His body was raised from the dead no more to return to corruption. He hath said:

Revelation 1:18
18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

When Christ returns He surely will come as a resurrected being and we will see his mortal body and the Jews will lament when they see the wounds in his hands. The idea that he will not return in all his glory, which includes his resurrected body, is not scriptural and is a false notion.

You're waiting for a flesh-and-blood return, aren't you. A comic book superhero floating in on the clouds (or is it a white horse?). A return that the Bible does not promise.

A corporeal body is not one that is manifest "unto us all," that's for sure. The church is, though. The Scriptures say unequivocally that that is Christ's new body. That he is the head of it.

They also say that he is in the church (Rv 1:12-13, 2:1). Elijah returned in power and glory. So did Christ.

 

[hobelim]

Christians who anticipate a corporeal return of Christ come up with one theory after another. Their eschatology is not scripture; it's theory. And crackpot theory at that.

No wonder skeptics ridicule and laugh.

Our resurrected Lord will come His second time with his resurrected body and will manifest it unto us all. His second coming has been described in scripture:

Zechariah 13:6
6 And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.

Doctrine and Covenants 45:47-53
47 Then shall the arm of the Lord fall upon the nations.
48 And then shall the Lord set his foot upon this mount, and it shall cleave in twain, and the earth shall tremble, and reel to and fro, and the heavens also shall shake.
49 And the Lord shall utter his voice, and all the ends of the earth shall hear it; and the nations of the earth shall mourn, and they that have laughed shall see their folly.
50 And calamity shall cover the mocker, and the scorner shall be consumed; and they that have watched for iniquity shall be hewn down and cast into the fire.
51 And then shall the Jews look upon me and say: What are these wounds in thine hands and in thy feet?
52 Then shall they know that I am the Lord; for I will say unto them: These wounds are the wounds with which I was wounded in the house of my friends. I am he who was lifted up. I am Jesus that was crucified. I am the Son of God.
53 And then shall they weep because of their iniquities; then shall they lament because they persecuted their king.

Acts 13:34-37
34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.

1 Corinthians 15:42,53
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
...
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

The mortal body is sown in corruption and will die and decompose. But when it is resurrected, it will become incorruptible and put on immortality. Christ is the first fruits of the resurrection. His body was raised from the dead no more to return to corruption. He hath said:

Revelation 1:18
18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

When Christ returns He surely will come as a resurrected being and we will see his mortal body and the Jews will lament when they see the wounds in his hands. The idea that he will not return in all his glory, which includes his resurrected body, is not scriptural and is a false notion.

You're waiting for a flesh-and-blood return, aren't you. A comic book superhero floating in on the clouds (or is it a white horse?). A return that the Bible does not promise.

A corporeal body is not one that is manifest "unto us all," that's for sure. The church is, though. The Scriptures say unequivocally that that is Christ's new body. That he is the head of it.

They also say that he is in the church (Rv 1:12-13, 2:1). Elijah returned in power and glory. So did Christ.

When Jesus appeared the first time he said that he came down from Heaven but everyone knows that he was came into the world in the usual way by being born into a family.

When he appears a second time, how could he come down from Heaven any other way?

 

[norwegen]

Christians who anticipate a corporeal return of Christ come up with one theory after another. Their eschatology is not scripture; it's theory. And crackpot theory at that.

No wonder skeptics ridicule and laugh.

Our resurrected Lord will come His second time with his resurrected body and will manifest it unto us all. His second coming has been described in scripture:

Zechariah 13:6
6 And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.

Doctrine and Covenants 45:47-53
47 Then shall the arm of the Lord fall upon the nations.
48 And then shall the Lord set his foot upon this mount, and it shall cleave in twain, and the earth shall tremble, and reel to and fro, and the heavens also shall shake.
49 And the Lord shall utter his voice, and all the ends of the earth shall hear it; and the nations of the earth shall mourn, and they that have laughed shall see their folly.
50 And calamity shall cover the mocker, and the scorner shall be consumed; and they that have watched for iniquity shall be hewn down and cast into the fire.
51 And then shall the Jews look upon me and say: What are these wounds in thine hands and in thy feet?
52 Then shall they know that I am the Lord; for I will say unto them: These wounds are the wounds with which I was wounded in the house of my friends. I am he who was lifted up. I am Jesus that was crucified. I am the Son of God.
53 And then shall they weep because of their iniquities; then shall they lament because they persecuted their king.

Acts 13:34-37
34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.

1 Corinthians 15:42,53
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
...
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

The mortal body is sown in corruption and will die and decompose. But when it is resurrected, it will become incorruptible and put on immortality. Christ is the first fruits of the resurrection. His body was raised from the dead no more to return to corruption. He hath said:

Revelation 1:18
18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

When Christ returns He surely will come as a resurrected being and we will see his mortal body and the Jews will lament when they see the wounds in his hands. The idea that he will not return in all his glory, which includes his resurrected body, is not scriptural and is a false notion.

You're waiting for a flesh-and-blood return, aren't you. A comic book superhero floating in on the clouds (or is it a white horse?). A return that the Bible does not promise.

A corporeal body is not one that is manifest "unto us all," that's for sure. The church is, though. The Scriptures say unequivocally that that is Christ's new body. That he is the head of it.

They also say that he is in the church (Rv 1:12-13, 2:1). Elijah returned in power and glory. So did Christ.

When Jesus appeared the first time he said that he came down from Heaven but everyone knows that he was came into the world in the usual way by being born into a family.

When he appears a second time, how could he come down from Heaven any other way?

Keep looking up, then. Keep thinking like the fundies think.

Get yourself a coffee and cigarette first; could be a long wait.

 

[hobelim]

Christians who anticipate a corporeal return of Christ come up with one theory after another. Their eschatology is not scripture; it's theory. And crackpot theory at that.

No wonder skeptics ridicule and laugh.

Our resurrected Lord will come His second time with his resurrected body and will manifest it unto us all. His second coming has been described in scripture:

Zechariah 13:6
6 And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.

Doctrine and Covenants 45:47-53
47 Then shall the arm of the Lord fall upon the nations.
48 And then shall the Lord set his foot upon this mount, and it shall cleave in twain, and the earth shall tremble, and reel to and fro, and the heavens also shall shake.
49 And the Lord shall utter his voice, and all the ends of the earth shall hear it; and the nations of the earth shall mourn, and they that have laughed shall see their folly.
50 And calamity shall cover the mocker, and the scorner shall be consumed; and they that have watched for iniquity shall be hewn down and cast into the fire.
51 And then shall the Jews look upon me and say: What are these wounds in thine hands and in thy feet?
52 Then shall they know that I am the Lord; for I will say unto them: These wounds are the wounds with which I was wounded in the house of my friends. I am he who was lifted up. I am Jesus that was crucified. I am the Son of God.
53 And then shall they weep because of their iniquities; then shall they lament because they persecuted their king.

Acts 13:34-37
34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.

1 Corinthians 15:42,53
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
...
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

The mortal body is sown in corruption and will die and decompose. But when it is resurrected, it will become incorruptible and put on immortality. Christ is the first fruits of the resurrection. His body was raised from the dead no more to return to corruption. He hath said:

Revelation 1:18
18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

When Christ returns He surely will come as a resurrected being and we will see his mortal body and the Jews will lament when they see the wounds in his hands. The idea that he will not return in all his glory, which includes his resurrected body, is not scriptural and is a false notion.

You're waiting for a flesh-and-blood return, aren't you. A comic book superhero floating in on the clouds (or is it a white horse?). A return that the Bible does not promise.

A corporeal body is not one that is manifest "unto us all," that's for sure. The church is, though. The Scriptures say unequivocally that that is Christ's new body. That he is the head of it.

They also say that he is in the church (Rv 1:12-13, 2:1). Elijah returned in power and glory. So did Christ.

When Jesus appeared the first time he said that he came down from Heaven but everyone knows that he was came into the world in the usual way by being born into a family.

When he appears a second time, how could he come down from Heaven any other way?

Keep looking up, then. Keep thinking like the fundies think.

Get yourself a coffee and cigarette first; could be a long wait.

lol...I have some better ideas than cigarettes and coffee. I'll get some of that if you don't mind.

In the meantime, instead of looking for Jesus, I think it will be much more entertaining to just watch things go flying up there somewhere waay over your head.

 

[Karl Rand]

Reading this thread reminds me of being forced to listen to the ravings in a lunatic asylum.
Maybe though we can take it up a notch and drag in something from THE GNOSTIC GOSPELS ? In the Secret Book of James 4:22 we are told “Be filled with Spirit but lack in Reason, for reason is of the soul. It is the soul.

 

[onefour1]

Christians who anticipate a corporeal return of Christ come up with one theory after another. Their eschatology is not scripture; it's theory. And crackpot theory at that.

No wonder skeptics ridicule and laugh.

Our resurrected Lord will come His second time with his resurrected body and will manifest it unto us all. His second coming has been described in scripture:

Zechariah 13:6
6 And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.

Doctrine and Covenants 45:47-53
47 Then shall the arm of the Lord fall upon the nations.
48 And then shall the Lord set his foot upon this mount, and it shall cleave in twain, and the earth shall tremble, and reel to and fro, and the heavens also shall shake.
49 And the Lord shall utter his voice, and all the ends of the earth shall hear it; and the nations of the earth shall mourn, and they that have laughed shall see their folly.
50 And calamity shall cover the mocker, and the scorner shall be consumed; and they that have watched for iniquity shall be hewn down and cast into the fire.
51 And then shall the Jews look upon me and say: What are these wounds in thine hands and in thy feet?
52 Then shall they know that I am the Lord; for I will say unto them: These wounds are the wounds with which I was wounded in the house of my friends. I am he who was lifted up. I am Jesus that was crucified. I am the Son of God.
53 And then shall they weep because of their iniquities; then shall they lament because they persecuted their king.

Acts 13:34-37
34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.

1 Corinthians 15:42,53
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
...
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

The mortal body is sown in corruption and will die and decompose. But when it is resurrected, it will become incorruptible and put on immortality. Christ is the first fruits of the resurrection. His body was raised from the dead no more to return to corruption. He hath said:

Revelation 1:18
18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

When Christ returns He surely will come as a resurrected being and we will see his mortal body and the Jews will lament when they see the wounds in his hands. The idea that he will not return in all his glory, which includes his resurrected body, is not scriptural and is a false notion.

You're waiting for a flesh-and-blood return, aren't you. A comic book superhero floating in on the clouds (or is it a white horse?). A return that the Bible does not promise.

A corporeal body is not one that is manifest "unto us all," that's for sure. The church is, though. The Scriptures say unequivocally that that is Christ's new body. That he is the head of it.

They also say that he is in the church (Rv 1:12-13, 2:1). Elijah returned in power and glory. So did Christ.

Nope. Not waiting for a flesh and blood Christ to return. Resurrected beings do not have blood in their veins. Blood is the source of life for a mortal. Christ is immortal. He has Flesh and Bones but no blood. The source of life for a resurrected being is the spirit. That is why Paul to the Corinthians taught that resurrected beings are raised a spiritual body.

1 Corinthians 15:50-53
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

But how was Christ raised?

Luke 24:36-43
36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
43 And he took it, and did eat before them.

As you can see, the resurrected Christ has a body of flesh and bones (i.e. a corporeal body) that he allowed his disciples to handle and know of themselves. But as Paul taught the Corinthians, Flesh and Blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. All mankind who receive a body on this earth will resurrect and have an immortal body (i.e. a corporeal body). Christ rose from the dead by having his spirit reunite with the flesh to never die again.

1 Corinthians 15:44
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Immortality and resurrection is a body of flesh and bones whose life is in the spirit and not in the blood. A natural body is a mortal body.