The college scam

[martybegan]

For the record I have a degree and my oldest son just graduated with a Math degree and will be starting his career in Engineering next month.
-BUT-
had he not tested highly all through high school, I would have had no problem sending him to a tech or a trade school. He worked construction all summer and learned a ton about redoing houses. There are many paths to success and they don't necessarily include college.

If you don't mind me asking how is he going into Engineering with a math degree?

I know of people with a hard science Bachelors getting an Engineering Masters, is this the case here?

Good question. No he just has a Bachelors. He graduated cum laude with strong references from his professors. The group does modeling and sim so they are more math oriented than most engineering departments.

Ok, that makes more sense. Most firms actually do hire Math/Computer people to do the hard modelling, with Engineers as part of the team to handle the physical inputs and interpret the data.

If he enjoys the engineering part of the job, he should look around locally to see what the nearby Engineering colleges require to get a Master's Engineering degree with regards to pre-reqs from the Bachelor's program.

My wife was a Biochem bachelors, and only had to do 6 pre-req courses at the Bachelors level before she was able to do her Masters level work in ChemE.

 

[ScorpioRising007]

College now is about selling dreams that won't happen. Mediocre law schools let many students in with low scores water down classes so students pass and charge a fortune to students who just have average intelligence knowing full well these students won't make it as lawyers because they don't have the brains to be s good lawyer.

You see this in many degrees from average universities. They should be honest and say to the student based on your ability we think you would have more success as a truck driver or a plumber your not smart enough to be an accountant. But schools instead water down classes so students pass because they want money and could care less if student will make it in real world.

I am a OTR truck driver and have a master's degree I learned my lesson the hard way.

Well, in theory, if you want to go to university you should have the ability to make such decisions for yourself. Having a law degree and not making it as a lawyer is no big deal. There are jobs in the police and around crime enforcement that also require law degrees. Not everyone gets a law degree, but having the chance to make it isn't a bad thing.

Getting in as a cop is actually very hard . I had worked a couple years in security to see if could get hired as a cop or in corrections. Over a hundred people showed up to be a cop and they said maybe they would hire one or two you had to pass many tough exams that most flunk.

Spending a fortune at law school to get in law enforcement does no good if can't pass exams. Getting experience as a security officer makes more sense but even so talking from my own personal experience getting hired as a cop is very tough.

 

[Unkotare]

College now is about selling dreams that won't happen. Mediocre law schools let many students in with low scores water down classes so students pass and charge a fortune to students who just have average intelligence knowing full well these students won't make it as lawyers because they don't have the brains to be s good lawyer.

You see this in many degrees from average universities. They should be honest and say to the student based on your ability we think you would have more success as a truck driver or a plumber your not smart enough to be an accountant. But schools instead water down classes so students pass because they want money and could care less if student will make it in real world.

I am a OTR truck driver and have a master's degree I learned my lesson the hard way.

This seems like a ‘bitterness over personal failure’ thread.

 

[Unkotare]

[Hyperbole much?I don't believe the OP was saying that colleges are all a waste, but brings up a valid point that pretty much everyone knows - degrees have become watered down because a good many universities are far more interested in sucking money in from government grants and student aid than actually graduating qualified students. These schools do everything they can to keep students enrolled despite terrible performance and their vacant seats in classes that they don't even attend. Especially smaller schools where the graduation rates are less than 10%. That is a huge waste of taxpayer money.

`
You, of course, have proof or evidence of this?

If you believe a college degree of today is just as difficult to obtain as it was 40-50 years ago, you are clearly uninformed.

What do you mean by “difficult “?

 

[frigidweirdo]

College now is about selling dreams that won't happen. Mediocre law schools let many students in with low scores water down classes so students pass and charge a fortune to students who just have average intelligence knowing full well these students won't make it as lawyers because they don't have the brains to be s good lawyer.

You see this in many degrees from average universities. They should be honest and say to the student based on your ability we think you would have more success as a truck driver or a plumber your not smart enough to be an accountant. But schools instead water down classes so students pass because they want money and could care less if student will make it in real world.

I am a OTR truck driver and have a master's degree I learned my lesson the hard way.

Well, in theory, if you want to go to university you should have the ability to make such decisions for yourself. Having a law degree and not making it as a lawyer is no big deal. There are jobs in the police and around crime enforcement that also require law degrees. Not everyone gets a law degree, but having the chance to make it isn't a bad thing.

Getting in as a cop is actually very hard . I had worked a couple years in security to see if could get hired as a cop or in corrections. Over a hundred people showed up to be a cop and they said maybe they would hire one or two you had to pass many tough exams that most flunk.

Spending a fortune at law school to get in law enforcement does no good if can't pass exams. Getting experience as a security officer makes more sense but even so talking from my own personal experience getting hired as a cop is very tough.

Well, I'd say having a law degree would probably mean you want to be more than just a cop, but to move up the ladder in the police force. I'd also guess it depends where you are.

 

[gipper]

[Hyperbole much?I don't believe the OP was saying that colleges are all a waste, but brings up a valid point that pretty much everyone knows - degrees have become watered down because a good many universities are far more interested in sucking money in from government grants and student aid than actually graduating qualified students. These schools do everything they can to keep students enrolled despite terrible performance and their vacant seats in classes that they don't even attend. Especially smaller schools where the graduation rates are less than 10%. That is a huge waste of taxpayer money.

`
You, of course, have proof or evidence of this?

If you believe a college degree of today is just as difficult to obtain as it was 40-50 years ago, you are clearly uninformed.

What do you mean by “difficult “?

The course work was more difficult 40-50 years ago. Grade inflation has been going on for some time.

 

[frigidweirdo]

[Hyperbole much?I don't believe the OP was saying that colleges are all a waste, but brings up a valid point that pretty much everyone knows - degrees have become watered down because a good many universities are far more interested in sucking money in from government grants and student aid than actually graduating qualified students. These schools do everything they can to keep students enrolled despite terrible performance and their vacant seats in classes that they don't even attend. Especially smaller schools where the graduation rates are less than 10%. That is a huge waste of taxpayer money.

`
You, of course, have proof or evidence of this?

If you believe a college degree of today is just as difficult to obtain as it was 40-50 years ago, you are clearly uninformed.

What do you mean by “difficult “?

The course work was more difficult 40-50 years ago. Grade inflation has been going on for some time.

Or maybe the students have been getting better, so it's easier.

 

[gipper]

[Hyperbole much?I don't believe the OP was saying that colleges are all a waste, but brings up a valid point that pretty much everyone knows - degrees have become watered down because a good many universities are far more interested in sucking money in from government grants and student aid than actually graduating qualified students. These schools do everything they can to keep students enrolled despite terrible performance and their vacant seats in classes that they don't even attend. Especially smaller schools where the graduation rates are less than 10%. That is a huge waste of taxpayer money.

`
You, of course, have proof or evidence of this?

If you believe a college degree of today is just as difficult to obtain as it was 40-50 years ago, you are clearly uninformed.

What do you mean by “difficult “?

The course work was more difficult 40-50 years ago. Grade inflation has been going on for some time.

Or maybe the students have been getting better, so it's easier.

You are dreaming.

 

[frigidweirdo]

`
You, of course, have proof or evidence of this?

If you believe a college degree of today is just as difficult to obtain as it was 40-50 years ago, you are clearly uninformed.

What do you mean by “difficult “?

The course work was more difficult 40-50 years ago. Grade inflation has been going on for some time.

Or maybe the students have been getting better, so it's easier.

You are dreaming.

Am I?

 

[ScorpioRising007]

College now is about selling dreams that won't happen. Mediocre law schools let many students in with low scores water down classes so students pass and charge a fortune to students who just have average intelligence knowing full well these students won't make it as lawyers because they don't have the brains to be s good lawyer.

You see this in many degrees from average universities. They should be honest and say to the student based on your ability we think you would have more success as a truck driver or a plumber your not smart enough to be an accountant. But schools instead water down classes so students pass because they want money and could care less if student will make it in real world.

I am a OTR truck driver and have a master's degree I learned my lesson the hard way.

Yes, we have such lousy universities in the US. That is why students from all over the world come to the US to go to university. That is why a university degree from the US is prized by employers world wide, because we have such lousy schools.

Oh...what would we do without the strawman?

Are you related to Big Ears?

I have just retired from 30 years of teaching--university & community college in the States and an international college prep high school program for 11th and 12th graders. I taught that program for 14 years in international schools. The first choice for most graduates of the program, who are from around the world, is either the UK or the US for their university studies. Our program, which has extremely high standards, is highly prized by universities around the world, including the US, schools that are hard to get into. I know from personal, direct experience thst US university degrees are highly valued by employers around the world and that a student will get what he or she puts into college studies.

Teaching degrees are the biggest scam out there. I got a master's in education with teaching license because newspapers would say there is a teacher shortage lots jobs. I went on teaching interviews always same thing heard we have over 100 people who applied we are hiring only one. We wont hire you as teacher but if you want sub for us for 50$ a day.

Instead of looking at degrees advertised as high demand jobs I should thought to myself ok what's a job no one wants.

Mortician would been better choice. No one wants to embalm dead bodies for a living

 

[gipper]

College now is about selling dreams that won't happen. Mediocre law schools let many students in with low scores water down classes so students pass and charge a fortune to students who just have average intelligence knowing full well these students won't make it as lawyers because they don't have the brains to be s good lawyer.

You see this in many degrees from average universities. They should be honest and say to the student based on your ability we think you would have more success as a truck driver or a plumber your not smart enough to be an accountant. But schools instead water down classes so students pass because they want money and could care less if student will make it in real world.

I am a OTR truck driver and have a master's degree I learned my lesson the hard way.

Yes, we have such lousy universities in the US. That is why students from all over the world come to the US to go to university. That is why a university degree from the US is prized by employers world wide, because we have such lousy schools.

Oh...what would we do without the strawman?

Are you related to Big Ears?

I have just retired from 30 years of teaching--university & community college in the States and an international college prep high school program for 11th and 12th graders. I taught that program for 14 years in international schools. The first choice for most graduates of the program, who are from around the world, is either the UK or the US for their university studies. Our program, which has extremely high standards, is highly prized by universities around the world, including the US, schools that are hard to get into. I know from personal, direct experience thst US university degrees are highly valued by employers around the world and that a student will get what he or she puts into college studies.

Teaching degrees are the biggest scam out there. I got a master's in education with teaching license because newspapers would say there is a teacher shortage lots jobs. I went on teaching interviews always same thing heard we have over 100 people who applied we are hiring only one. We wont hire you as teacher but if you want sub for us for 50$ a day.

Instead of looking at degrees advertised as high demand jobs I should thought to myself ok what's a job no one wants.

Mortician would been better choice. No one wants to embalm dead bodies for a living

My niece did much the same thing. She got her bachelors in teaching only to find out no jobs existed. She is a waitress.

 

[Esmeralda]

College now is about selling dreams that won't happen. Mediocre law schools let many students in with low scores water down classes so students pass and charge a fortune to students who just have average intelligence knowing full well these students won't make it as lawyers because they don't have the brains to be s good lawyer.

You see this in many degrees from average universities. They should be honest and say to the student based on your ability we think you would have more success as a truck driver or a plumber your not smart enough to be an accountant. But schools instead water down classes so students pass because they want money and could care less if student will make it in real world.

I am a OTR truck driver and have a master's degree I learned my lesson the hard way.

Yes, we have such lousy universities in the US. That is why students from all over the world come to the US to go to university. That is why a university degree from the US is prized by employers world wide, because we have such lousy schools.

Oh...what would we do without the strawman?

Are you related to Big Ears?

I have just retired from 30 years of teaching--university & community college in the States and an international college prep high school program for 11th and 12th graders. I taught that program for 14 years in international schools. The first choice for most graduates of the program, who are from around the world, is either the UK or the US for their university studies. Our program, which has extremely high standards, is highly prized by universities around the world, including the US, schools that are hard to get into. I know from personal, direct experience thst US university degrees are highly valued by employers around the world and that a student will get what he or she puts into college studies.

Teaching degrees are the biggest scam out there. I got a master's in education with teaching license because newspapers would say there is a teacher shortage lots jobs. I went on teaching interviews always same thing heard we have over 100 people who applied we are hiring only one. We wont hire you as teacher but if you want sub for us for 50$ a day.

Instead of looking at degrees advertised as high demand jobs I should thought to myself ok what's a job no one wants.

Mortician would been better choice. No one wants to embalm dead bodies for a living

I'm sorry. But if they didn't hire you it is because there were better applicants, not because there is some sort of scam about teacher shortages. Sorry.

 

[Esmeralda]

College now is about selling dreams that won't happen. Mediocre law schools let many students in with low scores water down classes so students pass and charge a fortune to students who just have average intelligence knowing full well these students won't make it as lawyers because they don't have the brains to be s good lawyer.

You see this in many degrees from average universities. They should be honest and say to the student based on your ability we think you would have more success as a truck driver or a plumber your not smart enough to be an accountant. But schools instead water down classes so students pass because they want money and could care less if student will make it in real world.

I am a OTR truck driver and have a master's degree I learned my lesson the hard way.

Yes, we have such lousy universities in the US. That is why students from all over the world come to the US to go to university. That is why a university degree from the US is prized by employers world wide, because we have such lousy schools.

Oh...what would we do without the strawman?

Are you related to Big Ears?

I have just retired from 30 years of teaching--university & community college in the States and an international college prep high school program for 11th and 12th graders. I taught that program for 14 years in international schools. The first choice for most graduates of the program, who are from around the world, is either the UK or the US for their university studies. Our program, which has extremely high standards, is highly prized by universities around the world, including the US, schools that are hard to get into. I know from personal, direct experience thst US university degrees are highly valued by employers around the world and that a student will get what he or she puts into college studies.

Teaching degrees are the biggest scam out there. I got a master's in education with teaching license because newspapers would say there is a teacher shortage lots jobs. I went on teaching interviews always same thing heard we have over 100 people who applied we are hiring only one. We wont hire you as teacher but if you want sub for us for 50$ a day.

Instead of looking at degrees advertised as high demand jobs I should thought to myself ok what's a job no one wants.

Mortician would been better choice. No one wants to embalm dead bodies for a living

My niece did much the same thing. She got her bachelors in teaching only to find out no jobs existed. She is a waitress.

The best applicants get jobs. I did part-time college teaching before going full-time. I did substitute high school teaching before getting a full-time contracted job. That's how the market works. Someone who has a teaching degree and works instead as a waitress... that's an issue of making a choice, not of having no choice. Maybe she is happier; maybe she makes more money than substitute teaching. When I was a substitute teacher, if I could have cloned myself, both of me would have worked full time: there was twice as much work as I could do. You don't make much money, true, but it leads to a full-time position.

 

[Unkotare]

[Hyperbole much?I don't believe the OP was saying that colleges are all a waste, but brings up a valid point that pretty much everyone knows - degrees have become watered down because a good many universities are far more interested in sucking money in from government grants and student aid than actually graduating qualified students. These schools do everything they can to keep students enrolled despite terrible performance and their vacant seats in classes that they don't even attend. Especially smaller schools where the graduation rates are less than 10%. That is a huge waste of taxpayer money.

`
You, of course, have proof or evidence of this?

If you believe a college degree of today is just as difficult to obtain as it was 40-50 years ago, you are clearly uninformed.

What do you mean by “difficult “?

The course work was more difficult 40-50 years ago. ...

Any objective measure of that?

 

[Unkotare]

[Hyperbole much?I don't believe the OP was saying that colleges are all a waste, but brings up a valid point that pretty much everyone knows - degrees have become watered down because a good many universities are far more interested in sucking money in from government grants and student aid than actually graduating qualified students. These schools do everything they can to keep students enrolled despite terrible performance and their vacant seats in classes that they don't even attend. Especially smaller schools where the graduation rates are less than 10%. That is a huge waste of taxpayer money.

`
You, of course, have proof or evidence of this?

If you believe a college degree of today is just as difficult to obtain as it was 40-50 years ago, you are clearly uninformed.

What do you mean by “difficult “?

...Grade inflation has been going on for some time.

A very, very long time. Speculation about that is not a sound basis for comparison.

 

[gipper]

[Hyperbole much?I don't believe the OP was saying that colleges are all a waste, but brings up a valid point that pretty much everyone knows - degrees have become watered down because a good many universities are far more interested in sucking money in from government grants and student aid than actually graduating qualified students. These schools do everything they can to keep students enrolled despite terrible performance and their vacant seats in classes that they don't even attend. Especially smaller schools where the graduation rates are less than 10%. That is a huge waste of taxpayer money.

`
You, of course, have proof or evidence of this?

If you believe a college degree of today is just as difficult to obtain as it was 40-50 years ago, you are clearly uninformed.

What do you mean by “difficult “?

...Grade inflation has been going on for some time.

A very, very long time. Speculation about that is not a sound basis for comparison.

Silly

 

[PoliticalChic]

College now is about selling dreams that won't happen. Mediocre law schools let many students in with low scores water down classes so students pass and charge a fortune to students who just have average intelligence knowing full well these students won't make it as lawyers because they don't have the brains to be s good lawyer.

You see this in many degrees from average universities. They should be honest and say to the student based on your ability we think you would have more success as a truck driver or a plumber your not smart enough to be an accountant. But schools instead water down classes so students pass because they want money and could care less if student will make it in real world.

I am a OTR truck driver and have a master's degree I learned my lesson the hard way.

Yes, we have such lousy universities in the US. That is why students from all over the world come to the US to go to university. That is why a university degree from the US is prized by employers world wide, because we have such lousy schools.

Oh...what would we do without the strawman?

Are you related to Big Ears?

I have just retired from 30 years of teaching--university & community college in the States and an international college prep high school program for 11th and 12th graders. I taught that program for 14 years in international schools. The first choice for most graduates of the program, who are from around the world, is either the UK or the US for their university studies. Our program, which has extremely high standards, is highly prized by universities around the world, including the US, schools that are hard to get into. I know from personal, direct experience thst US university degrees are highly valued by employers around the world and that a student will get what he or she puts into college studies.

Teaching degrees are the biggest scam out there. I got a master's in education with teaching license because newspapers would say there is a teacher shortage lots jobs. I went on teaching interviews always same thing heard we have over 100 people who applied we are hiring only one. We wont hire you as teacher but if you want sub for us for 50$ a day.

Instead of looking at degrees advertised as high demand jobs I should thought to myself ok what's a job no one wants.

Mortician would been better choice. No one wants to embalm dead bodies for a living

My niece did much the same thing. She got her bachelors in teaching only to find out no jobs existed. She is a waitress.

Liberals phased out vocational schools, insisting that everyone MUST go to college.


....a large part of the problem.

 

[Darkwind]

If you believe a college degree of today is just as difficult to obtain as it was 40-50 years ago, you are clearly uninformed.

`
And you have proof they have changed? I think not. Admission standards have changed. Due to technological advances, many of the core curriculum's have changed. But the standard to get a degree, has not.

Nice parsing there.

The standards have remained the same. So many credits for so many hours of work and the grades of the professor.

So, the question becomes, has the curriculum remains as vigorous? In many ways, the answer is no. For some disciplines, they have, which is why those fields are in crisis. We don't have as many Doctors (medicine), Engineers, Lawyers, Accountants, Mathematicians as in the past because the curriculum in those subjects has remained vigorous.

So we have kids today going to college and taking those courses and subjects that are no longer as rigorous. Like how to fuck in a group setting and other assorted 'humanities'

It is disingenuous to say that the 'standards' are the same.

 

[Unkotare]

`
You, of course, have proof or evidence of this?

If you believe a college degree of today is just as difficult to obtain as it was 40-50 years ago, you are clearly uninformed.

What do you mean by “difficult “?

...Grade inflation has been going on for some time.

A very, very long time. Speculation about that is not a sound basis for comparison.

Silly

How?

 

[Unkotare]

Yes, we have such lousy universities in the US. That is why students from all over the world come to the US to go to university. That is why a university degree from the US is prized by employers world wide, because we have such lousy schools.

Oh...what would we do without the strawman?

Are you related to Big Ears?

I have just retired from 30 years of teaching--university & community college in the States and an international college prep high school program for 11th and 12th graders. I taught that program for 14 years in international schools. The first choice for most graduates of the program, who are from around the world, is either the UK or the US for their university studies. Our program, which has extremely high standards, is highly prized by universities around the world, including the US, schools that are hard to get into. I know from personal, direct experience thst US university degrees are highly valued by employers around the world and that a student will get what he or she puts into college studies.

Teaching degrees are the biggest scam out there. I got a master's in education with teaching license because newspapers would say there is a teacher shortage lots jobs. I went on teaching interviews always same thing heard we have over 100 people who applied we are hiring only one. We wont hire you as teacher but if you want sub for us for 50$ a day.

Instead of looking at degrees advertised as high demand jobs I should thought to myself ok what's a job no one wants.

Mortician would been better choice. No one wants to embalm dead bodies for a living

My niece did much the same thing. She got her bachelors in teaching only to find out no jobs existed. She is a waitress.

Liberals phased out vocational schools, insisting that everyone MUST go to college.


....a large part of the problem.

There are still vocational schools (with long waiting lists), and I expect there will be quite a few new ones built in the coming decade or so. A great choice for many young people.