Zone1 The Catholic Church is the most misunderstood/vilified "thing" in the world

[Meriweather]

I do not mock the drive behind baptizing babies and understand your perspective. I part ways, though, with those who claim that a child who is not baptized is headed to hell until he is, and they are out there.

A child is not headed to hell. Very early in Christianity that question was asked. What about children who are not yet baptized? No one could find in scripture, in the words of Jesus, in tradition the answer to this question. So the Church said it was in limbo about this question as it had not been addressed.

Time went on, and decades, centuries later, it was no longer the Church that was in limbo regarding this question, it had changed to babies being in Limbo! (Limbo now being seen as a place.)

With Vatican II, the Church corrected Limbo being a place and went back to affirming early Church teaching, that scripture/Christ did not specifically address this, and that not knowing, we can safely believe that all babies are in the hands of their merciful and loving Father. After all, He is the potter who created them.

 

[Meriweather]

The most beautiful thing a parent can hear is their child saying, "I want Jesus in my heart".

Perhaps even more beautiful..."Jesus is in my heart."

 

[Meriweather]

You were saying great things until you come to this

NO, we cannot respect a WRONG act

It is WRONG as hell not to baptize a child as soon as possible. Why would you say it is OK to neglect to baptize a child which means neglecting to give that child Christ?

Hear hadit. In other faiths, we can imagine children being led to Christ, being taught about Christ, on their way to Christ. Parents, perhaps based on their own experiences, have decided children being aware of the Way to Jesus will be the best experience for them. No one need question what has been prayerfully considered.

As for me...I was aware of the Holy Spirit within at such a young age, that Baptism as a baby is the only explanation. It's an experience I would not have wanted to miss. Added to this is that the Body of Christ welcomes babies into the family.

 

[1miseryindex]

Hear hadit. In other faiths, we can imagine children being led to Christ, being taught about Christ, on their way to Christ. Parents, perhaps based on their own experiences, have decided children being aware of the Way to Jesus will be the best experience for them. No one need question what has been prayerfully considered.

As for me...I was aware of the Holy Spirit within at such a young age, that Baptism as a baby is the only explanation. It's an experience I would not have wanted to miss. Added to this is that the Body of Christ welcomes babies into the family.

well, you have not, apparently, studied how the Church was messed up by Vatican II... I have noticed that some of your comments sound very... shall we say, Francis-esque.

Vatican II did a lot of damage and no Catholic should just spout off what V2 adherents teach because if something conflicts with the Traditional teachings of the Church, it is WRONG. It can't be both ways. you can't say that it is not big deal to not baptize a child and then say that it is important to do so. One has to choose because they can't both be right. And parents who neglect children are bad parents. We can all agree on that and it is negligent to not baptize your child AND raise the child in the Church

I'd say it's a mortal sin, but then, in order for something to be a mortal sin, the person doing it has to know it is indeed that..

so let's just say it is objectively a sin

 

[Meriweather]

well, you have not, apparently, studied how the Church was messed up by Vatican II... I have noticed that some of your comments sound very... shall we say, Francis-esque.

Vatican II did a lot of damage and no Catholic should just spout off what V2 adherents teach because if something conflicts with the Traditional teachings of the Church, it is WRONG. It can't be both ways. you can't say that it is not big deal to not baptize a child and then say that it is important to do so. One has to choose because they can't both be right. And parents who neglect children are bad parents. We can all agree on that and it is negligent to not baptize your child AND raise the child in the Church

I'd say it's a mortal sin, but then, in order for something to be a mortal sin, the person doing it has to know it is indeed that..

so let's just say it is objectively a sin

The Tower of Babel.

I have a great interest in etymology, the study of language. Language changes over time, so much so that many of the Biblical words translated into modern languages over the centuries did not retain their original meanings and usage.

"Saved" is one great example. In Biblical times, the word that was translated into "saved" meant immediate physical rescue. Centuries later, some Christian denominations decided "saved" meant future spiritual rescue into heaven.

Catholics/Orthodox maintain that Jesus' actions and teachings rescue us/save us from doing wrong today. It is not a future promise. The promise is that this Way of Salvation/Redemption is eternal, beginning now and lasting far beyond this life--and the sins we repent of are forgiven.

Yelling at me and other Christians does not further understanding, it increases the Babel in the Tower being built. All of us are reaching towards God. It is best that sometimes we pause in our building to listen to what others are saying, recognizing our languages have grown apart.

Taking time to listen and to understand these changes will bring us closer together instead of pushing us farther apart. Like hadit, I have been ever mindful of Jesus prayer that we all remain one. For years, decades now, I have prayed that each denomination reach out to the denomination closest to them in beliefs and reunite. This should begin with Catholics and Orthodox. We are so very close, but every mindful of the thin crack that divides. It's time we crossed over. Protestants can do the same with the denomination they are closest to.

 

[1miseryindex]

Yelling at me and other Christians does not further understanding,

yelling?

Please

 

[Meriweather]

yelling?

Please

Gentleness was intended when comparing me to Pope Francis whom you clearly despise and are contemptuous of?

 

[1miseryindex]

Gentleness was intended when comparing me to Pope Francis whom you clearly despise and are contemptuous of?

I spoke the truth I know

If that's bad... what can I say?

Truth is truth

We've been taught a lot of rubbish since V2--TiREd of it

 

[Meriweather]

I spoke the truth I know

Then perhaps consider how little that might be...

 

[ninja007]

Baptism confers grace on the soul

And the sooner it happens, preferably at birth, the better

wrong. nowhere in the bible says that.

 

[ninja007]

You were saying great things until you come to this

NO, we cannot respect a WRONG act

It is WRONG as hell not to baptize a child as soon as possible. Why would you say it is OK to neglect to baptize a child which means neglecting to give that child Christ?

Then we have to raise the child Catholic (for the same reasons)

bible/

 

[ninja007]

I spoke the truth I know

If that's bad... what can I say?

Truth is truth

We've been taught a lot of rubbish since V2--TiREd of it

a child cannot accept Jesus.

 

[hadit]

dishonest as hell

You act like u despise Catholics and act like they are all supposed to leave the CC and go to YOUR "church"

And where have I done that? You make a lot of accusations, can you back them up?

 

[1miseryindex]

And where have I done that? You make a lot of accusations, can you back them up?

I'm not going to torment myself bygoing through all your past posts.

I can' barely stand to read them as it is

 

[1miseryindex]

Then perhaps consider how little that might be...

wow, how Christian of you

how obviously malicious and LYING

You know that I --for example-- know WAY more than you do about modern Church history yet you insinuate I'm some kind of idiot who knows nothing.

oh well.. I learned a long time ago that something like 90% of posters here are dishonest-- say something insulting that is not true just to punish another poster.

Some Catholic u are

 

[hadit]

I'm not going to torment myself bygoing through all your past posts.

I can' barely stand to read them as it is

Consider what you just did. You ACCUSED me of something, then admitted that you didn't want to get the evidence that I did what you ACCUSED me of doing. Do you understand that you just made up your accusation? That's really not good at all.

 

[1miseryindex]

Consider what you just did. You ACCUSED me of something, then admitted that you didn't want to get the evidence that I did what you ACCUSED me of doing. Do you understand that you just made up your accusation? That's really not good at all.

you can look things up yourself

You are a word bully. You accuse others of accusing!

projection!

If you want me to answer to some particular thing YOU can put that particular thing at the end of all the posts where I will find it.

Otherwise, you make it clear once again that all you're interested in is hearing yourself talk/write

 

[Meriweather]

I have noticed that some of your comments sound very... shall we say, Francis-esque.

I spoke the truth I know

Then perhaps consider how little that might be...

wow, how Christian of you

how obviously malicious and LYING

You know Pope Francis and me so well you are not even willing to consider that you know little about either of us. Comparing me to the Pope? Then you know me not at all. And that is not meant to be disrespectful to the Pope, only that he and I are not on the same page. And neither are you and I.

 

[ninja007]

"Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. Matthew 23:9

 

[Meriweather]

"Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. Matthew 23:9

And above all, don't forget to pluck out your eye and cut off your hand while you refuse to call a parent, father.