Zone1 The Catholic Church is the most misunderstood/vilified "thing" in the world

[hadit]

so you believe in the psgs that show one does indeed have to work to save himself... It is WORK to always accept Christ and HIs ways rather than our own. Tell me that does not go against human nature?!

Ah, now you have stumbled on something profound. Nice truffle:

Galatians 5:

17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

There's your answer, the power of the indwelt Holy Spirit.

Also, ditch the straw men already!

I never said what you claim I said. You are putting words in my mouth. but that figures...

Jesus said "If you love me you will keep my commandments"

The reason so many people end up in Hell (Jesus said this in so many words) is because people cherry pick and rationalize...

You're saying the same thing I've been saying, we are commanded to follow Christ's commandments and do good works. You seem to think you have to do them to earn salvation. You don't.

 

[Meriweather]

And you say works are required.

Sigh. "Works"--there are good works and bad works, and not well done works. The Way of Salvation is the way of producing good fruit. Is one producing or is one simply "earning" rewards?

 

[hadit]

I scoff at the word "saved". "Saved" for what? Most seem to equate it as a place in heaven. Salvation is so much richer. It's ongoing, back into our past, in our present, and forward into our future. No "once and done" for salvation.

2Corinthians 5:

17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new

Not becoming new, are become new. New creature, old things are passed away.

 

[hadit]

Sigh. "Works"--there are good works and bad works, and not well done works. The Way of Salvation is the way of producing good fruit. Is one producing or is one simply "earning" rewards?

When one is transformed by the Holy Spirit, they become a new creature which naturally does the good works. They are the RESULT, not the CAUSE of salvation.

 

[hadit]

Once again, Can you earn the sunrise? No. But one can enjoy the sunrise by going outside at dawn opening one's eyes and studying it with keen observation.

In the same way, there is no "earning" of salvation. Simply enter into the Way of Salvation and enjoy the challenges being presented daily to you and tackling them rightly with goodness and love. If one is trying to tackle others' challenges, that may be a sign one is working for the "Holier Than Thou" medal. (By the way, it's made of tin. )

When do you get born again? You know, what Jesus said was required? Or do you ignore that?

 

[1miseryindex]

2Corinthians 5:

17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new

Not becoming new, are become new. New creature, old things are passed away.

so?

becoming a new person does NOT mean you have become (yet) exactly what is required for you to become in order to dwell in Heaven

where no unclean thing will enter

As stated elsewhere, people are BEING saved... WILL BE saved in the future... No one is saved (only being saved) while still on Earth

 

[1miseryindex]

When one is transformed by the Holy Spirit, they become a new creature which naturally does the good works. They are the RESULT, not the CAUSE of salvation.

your works could use some improvement. Almost every post of yours has some insult or another.

Jesus said Whatever you do to the least of My people, you do unto ME"--Mt 25:31

also a psg that mentions Eternal punishment

 

[Meriweather]

not the CAUSE of salvation.

Changing 'earned' to 'CAUSE' is saying the same thing. No one 'causes' a sunrise.

 

[Meriweather]

When do you get born again?

Baptism

 

[1miseryindex]

Baptism

well, baptism doesn't always ..

it gives one the Holy Spirit / Christ

but after time in this world, all hell breaks out in one's soul... that guy is talking about being filled w/ the Spirit after baptism

 

[The Irish Ram]

You forgot the part about how the Catholic Church is the ONE Christ founded... despite all the sinners therein

The Protestants don't have sinners in their "churches"



(That's what they appear to want us all to believe anyhow)

The Protestants are forgiven by Christ. We are going straight up. We'll save a place for you until you work your way there via purgatory.

Christ was never in Rome, and Peter started Christ's church in Jerusalem.
The Catholic church is a man made religion that Christ doesn't even recognize...

 

[frigidweirdo]

and it always has been because Jesus promised we who follow Him would be

"hated by all because of His name"
Mk 13:13 and other psgs

Oh, I guess I forgot to mention it is also the most hated thing in history... which is evidenced by the posts and threads here of

well, just about anyone who isn't Catholic...

Sad, so many people are not inside the Church Christ founded.. They seem to think there is a better 'church' out there founded by a human being

where there are no ...

sinners

Perhaps it's because the leaders of the church have been greed money grabbers and some of the lower down ones have been kiddy fiddlers.

Just because people hate the Catholic Church because of that doesn't give you a good reason to be proud.

 

[ninja007]

Sigh. "Works"--there are good works and bad works, and not well done works. The Way of Salvation is the way of producing good fruit. Is one producing or is one simply "earning" rewards?

do you know what sanctification is?

 

[ninja007]

your works could use some improvement. Almost every post of yours has some insult or another.

Jesus said Whatever you do to the least of My people, you do unto ME"--Mt 25:31

also a psg that mentions Eternal punishment

the irony.

 

[Meriweather]

do you know what sanctification is?

Not worthy of a response.

 

[hadit]

so?

becoming a new person does NOT mean you have become (yet) exactly what is required for you to become in order to dwell in Heaven

It does mean that you are a new person and if you die in the next moment, you are with Christ. The thief on the cross did no good works, was not baptized, did not attend Mass, nothing, yet he walked into Paradise with Jesus that very day. If He can do it for that thief, He can do it for me.

where no unclean thing will enter

As stated elsewhere, people are BEING saved... WILL BE saved in the future... No one is saved (only being saved) while still on Earth

22 throw off your old sinful nature and your former way of life, which is corrupted by lust and deception.
23 Instead, let the Spirit renew your thoughts and attitudes.
24 Put on your new nature, created to be like God—truly righteous and holy.

You are given a new nature and you have to choose to put the old one to death. For most of us, that's a daily choice.

 

[hadit]

Changing 'earned' to 'CAUSE' is saying the same thing. No one 'causes' a sunrise.

And if you refuse to go outside into the sunlight, you get no benefit from it. For you, the sun might as well have not risen. I agree with you, salvation is there for everyone to freely receive, but it is not automatically applied to those who refuse it.

 

[hadit]

Baptism

I can see why you would say that, given that baptism is a commanded sacrament. I do, however, believe that being born again is done immediately upon conversion, while baptism is the public declaration that one is now a follower of Christ, and a cause for celebration in the family. God has done special things to people at baptism, like the descent of the Holy Spirit on Jesus when He was baptized.

 

[hadit]

your works could use some improvement. Almost every post of yours has some insult or another.

Jesus said Whatever you do to the least of My people, you do unto ME"--Mt 25:31

also a psg that mentions Eternal punishment

Being that I am far from perfect in all my ways, I would like to know what you consider an insult in "almost every post" I make. And, while we're on the subject, have you considered how your arrogance about the Catholic Church and the way you look down on Protestants violates Christ's desire that we all be one in Him? You are drawing arbitrary lines around yourself and putting down those outside the lines because the name on their Church door is not the same as yours. That's not very Christ-like, you know.

 

[Meriweather]

It does mean that you are a new person and if you die in the next moment, you are with Christ. The thief on the cross did no good works, was not baptized, did not attend Mass, nothing, yet he walked into Paradise with Jesus that very day. If He can do it for that thief, He can do it for me.

Do you believe that Jesus, even on the cross, could read someone's heart?