The Bible does not condone slavery

[Joy4Uall]

May favorite part of the Bible is how Moses fought to free the Jews from slavery

Then, when the Ten Commandments came out, God did not even include slavery.......had to put in about coveting.

Moses was a sucker

Slavery is worse that coveting (obviously), so in Scientific Humanism we don't bring forward the divinity of the 10 Commandments because we believe that an all-knowing creator of everything would obviously know that ending slavery is a higher PRIORITY for the world than "not coveting" is. He would have put the Golden Rule in the top 10 too, of course - but he didn't.

 

[Joy4Uall]

My dogs need slaves too. To feed them, pick up their shit, and clean up after them when they barf in the house.

For that, I elect Old Fag and Faggly Nuttite

But we HUMANS don't need slaves - we are better than dogs, and we are better than the God of the Bible.

 

[rightwinger]

May favorite part of the Bible is how Moses fought to free the Jews from slavery

Then, when the Ten Commandments came out, God did not even include slavery.......had to put in about coveting.

Moses was a sucker

Slavery is worse that coveting (obviously), so in Scientific Humanism we don't bring forward the divinity of the 10 Commandments because we believe that an all-knowing creator of everything would obviously know that ending slavery is a higher PRIORITY for the world than "not coveting" is. He would have put the Golden Rule in the top 10 too, of course - but he didn't.

The sad fact is that slavery was an economic necessity at the time. Advocating the elimination of slavery would have brought strict retribution at the time from the powers that be

 

[Joy4Uall]

Contrary to popular belief, the Bible (particularly the Old testament) clearly approves of slavery, and in some cases treats slaves as permanent property of the owner, to be passed from father to son as any other chattel. There are different rules for Hebrew and Heathen slaves.

THE FOLLOWING VERSES APPLY TO HEBREW SLAVES:

“Now these are the judgments which thou shalt set before them. If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing. If he came in by himself, he shall go out by himself: if he were married, then his wife shall go out with him.

“If his master have given him a wife, and she have born him sons or daughters; the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out by himself. And if the servant shall plainly say, I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free: Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever. And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do” (Exodus 21:3-7, KJV, emphasis my own).

“And if thy brother, an Hebrew man, or an Hebrew woman, be sold unto thee, and serve thee six years; then in the seventh year thou shalt let him go free from thee. And when thou sendest him out free from thee, thou shalt not let him go away empty: Thou shalt furnish him liberally out of thy flock, and out of thy floor, and out of thy winepress: of that wherewith the LORD thy God hath blessed thee thou shalt give unto him. And thou shalt remember that thou wast a bondman in the land of Egypt, and the LORD thy God redeemed thee: therefore I command thee this thing to day” (Deuteronomy 15:12-17, KJV).

(NOTE: There appears to be a conflict between Exodus 21:3-7 which states that maidservants shall not be released as the menservants are and Deuteronomy 15:12-17 which says the woman slave shall also be set free after serving six years. However, Exodus seems to apply to Hebrew servants who are not related to the owner, whereas Deuteronomy refers to brothers and most likely sisters and other family members.)

THE FOLLOWING VERSES APPLY TO HEATHEN SLAVES:

“Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids. Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession. And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever: but over your brethren the children of Israel, ye shall not rule one over another with rigour” (Leviticus 25:44-46, KJV, emphasis my own).

THE FOLLOWING VERSES SHOW THAT SLAVES WERE ALLOWED TO BE BEATEN TO DEATH AS LONG AS THEY SURVIVED A DAY OR TWO BEFORE DYING

The Bible allows slave owners to beat their slaves and several versions, including the KJV, provide that the slave owner will not be punished if the slave dies as the result thereof providing the death is not immediate.

“And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money” (Exodus 21:20, 12, KJV).

"If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property” (Exodus 21:20, 21, NIV).

“He that strikes his bondman, or bondwoman, with a rod, and they die under his hands, shall be guilty of the crime. But if the party remain alive a day or two, he shall not be subject to the punishment, because it is his money” (New Advent Bible).

However, other versions, such as the NIV, suggest that a slave owner is to be punished for beating a slave to death regardless whether the death was immediate or days later as long as the beating was the proximate cause of death. However, there was to be no punishment for beating a slave if the slave did not die as a result. Here is what the NIV says:

"If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property” (Exodus 21:20, 21, NIV).

While the Bible does provide some sort of punishment for one who kills his slave, one thing is crystal clear: there is no punishment whatsoever for beating a slave – man or woman – within in inch of his or her life as long as they survive the beating.

SLAVERY IN THE NEW TESTAMENT

The New Testament does not address the status of slaves, that is whether or not they serve by agreement or are the property of their masters in perpetuity. Nor does the New Testament condone brutality against those in servitude, but it does provide that all servants are expected to be obedient to their masters, even enduring grief and suffering, since such obedience pleases GOD:

“Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honour, that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed” (1 Timothy 6:1, KJV).

“Exhort servants to be obedient unto their own masters, and to please them well in all things; not answering again; Not purloining, but shewing all good fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things” (Titus 2:9, KJV).

“Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ; Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart” (Ephesians 6:5-7, KJV).

“Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God; And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men; Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ” (Colossians 3:22-24, KJV).

“Servants, be subject to your masters with all fear; not only to the good and gentle, but also to the froward. For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully. For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God” (1 Peter 2:18-20).

CONCLUSION: The Bible is not a book for the squeamish. Its pages contain the entire story of life including the good, the bad and the ugly. Within its tests are both poetry and pornography; tales of brutal mass murders and tales of human kindness. It is a story of the evolution of man's relationship with his fellowman and with his God. In the Old Testament slavery was accepted as a necessary way of life and slaves - at least some of them – were treated as mere chattel. In the New Testament, slaves were told to be faithful and loyal to their masters; however, there is nothing in the OT that suggests slaves served against their will and were forever the property of their masters. Even in the Bible it appears the rules changed. Of course, if the Old Testament were sufficient for all people and all times there would have been no need for a New Testament; however, the Bible specifically says, “For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away” (Hebrews 8:5-13, KJV).

Jesus was never asked about slavery......

I've never been asked about the Holocaust, but I still speak out against it....because I care about humanity.

Votto, if you were in Jesus' shoes, would you, like Scientific Humanists, have found the moral courage to simply take 15 seconds out of your life to say "write this down: end slavery w/in the next 30 years"? Scientific Humanists would, Votto, because we believe in doing what's best for the world. What about you?
Thanks.

 

[Joy4Uall]

1. The Bible did not condone slavery.
2. Slavery during this time was indentured servitude. People sold themselves as slaves when they could not pay their debts or provide for their families.
3. Both the OT and NT expressly forbid forced slavery. The penalty for such a crime in the Mosaic Law was death: “Anyone who kidnaps another and either sells him or still has him when he is caught must be put to death” (Exodus 21:16)
4. Indentured servants were treated pretty bad back in those days. Mosaic Law measurably raised the standards of treatment heads and shoulders above their contemporaries of the day.

As usual- you are an idiot.

God told the Jews in the Old Testament to kill the non-believers, except virgin girls- and take them as slaves.

Yes- that is forced slavery.

......

Yes, forced sexual slavery, unfortunately.

There is a better, more loving, more compassionate way, folks.
I'm glad as a Scientific Humanist I don't have to try to defend a book that seems to support slavery (or at least doesn't just say "end slavery w/in the next 30 years".) An all-knowing god would of course know that....or should we ALLOW slavery, today?

If you love as much as Scientific Humanists do, then you'll have a zero-tolerance policy when it comes to giving your children a book (that you endorse) that seems to approve of slavery. Love your children THIS much - you can do it! Don't risk being a bad parent - instead, always err on the side of love and compassion. Or at least tell your children: "the Bible got 'love your neighbor' RIGHT, but got slavery WRONG."

Is there really very much difference between being an indentured servant, a consensual slave, and being an employee?

Great - so that's good news as that would mean that I can now BEAT my employees to DEATH - as long as their death drags out past a day or two, per the Bible (that Jesus never corrected). I can think of one employee who I will now beat to death (but I need to only beat him enough so that his death drags out long enough for god to approve, per the Bible, I guess, eh?)
It says you can beat both male and female slaves with a rod so hard that as long as they don’t die right away you are cleared of any wrong doing:

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)

PS If Christians don't think that this verse "applies", then don't bring this verse forward the next time you give your impressionable young children a book that you endorse as the foundation of your whole religion/ethics/belief.

Have a great weekend.

You haven't seemed to notice that modern means of subjugation are far more sophisticated while not being any less brutal.

can you even calculate how many people compromise their own values and the evil consequently perpetuated by those who settle for the modern equivalent of thirty pieces of silver, a slaves wage?

Please stop defending slavery - you're better than that, I know it.

 

[rightwinger]

My dogs need slaves too. To feed them, pick up their shit, and clean up after them when they barf in the house.

For that, I elect Old Fag and Faggly Nuttite

But we HUMANS don't need slaves - we are better than dogs, and we are better than the God of the Bible.

Old Testimate God was an SOB at times
Jesus was cool...God was nasty

 

[Joy4Uall]

May favorite part of the Bible is how Moses fought to free the Jews from slavery

Then, when the Ten Commandments came out, God did not even include slavery.......had to put in about coveting.

Moses was a sucker

Slavery is worse that coveting (obviously), so in Scientific Humanism we don't bring forward the divinity of the 10 Commandments because we believe that an all-knowing creator of everything would obviously know that ending slavery is a higher PRIORITY for the world than "not coveting" is. He would have put the Golden Rule in the top 10 too, of course - but he didn't.

The sad fact is that slavery was an economic necessity at the time. Advocating the elimination of slavery would have brought strict retribution at the time from the powers that be

Jesus has had 2000 years to say "end slavery", and has never done that, so that makes your argument moot.
Please stop effectively defending slavery.
Thanks.

 

[shimon]

May favorite part of the Bible is how Moses fought to free the Jews from slavery

Then, when the Ten Commandments came out, God did not even include slavery.......had to put in about coveting.

Moses was a sucker

Not that I wish toget into your debate here but the correct term was BONDAGE.... Moses freed them from Bondage or Servitude to the Egyptian way of doing things which if you think about it mainly was the way they worshipped...He freed them from being in Bondage to the gods of Egypt ..One of the main gods of Egypt was Pharoah who placed all the impediments on them to keep them in servitude and help him keep the system in place that controlled not only them but his other subjects as well...Think of it as a pyramid with the Israelites holding up the structure and the pharoah sitting up at the top precariouslybalanced as long as the foundation( the Israelites) stayed in place and did not leave and crumble his power...

 

[Joy4Uall]

My dogs need slaves too. To feed them, pick up their shit, and clean up after them when they barf in the house.

For that, I elect Old Fag and Faggly Nuttite

But we HUMANS don't need slaves - we are better than dogs, and we are better than the God of the Bible.

Old Testimate God was an SOB at times
Jesus was cool...God was nasty

In the OT god was not as brutal to non-believers in the after-life (in "Sheol") as Jesus was in the NT (the hell of Revelation - much more brutal), so Jesus is more brutal for 99.99999999999999+% of the life-time (counting the eternal "after-life") of all non-believers than the god of the OT is.
Also, the Bible says that god does not change, so Jesus would, by that metric, be no better than the god of the OT is - or else the Bible is lying that god does not change.

 

[rightwinger]

May favorite part of the Bible is how Moses fought to free the Jews from slavery

Then, when the Ten Commandments came out, God did not even include slavery.......had to put in about coveting.

Moses was a sucker

Slavery is worse that coveting (obviously), so in Scientific Humanism we don't bring forward the divinity of the 10 Commandments because we believe that an all-knowing creator of everything would obviously know that ending slavery is a higher PRIORITY for the world than "not coveting" is. He would have put the Golden Rule in the top 10 too, of course - but he didn't.

The sad fact is that slavery was an economic necessity at the time. Advocating the elimination of slavery would have brought strict retribution at the time from the powers that be

Jesus has had 2000 years to say "end slavery", and has never done that, so that makes your argument moot.
Please stop effectively defending slavery.
Thanks.

Whoever wrote the New Testimate knew where the money was
Even they would not condemn slavery

 

[rightwinger]

May favorite part of the Bible is how Moses fought to free the Jews from slavery

Then, when the Ten Commandments came out, God did not even include slavery.......had to put in about coveting.

Moses was a sucker

Not that I wish toget into your debate here but the correct term was BONDAGE.... Moses freed them from Bondage or Servitude to the Egyptian way of doing things which if you think about it mainly was the way they worshipped...He freed them from being in Bondage to the gods of Egypt ..One of the main gods of Egypt was Pharoah who placed all the impediments on them to keep them in servitude and help him keep the system in place that controlled not only them but his other subjects as well...Think of it as a pyramid with the Israelites holding up the structure and the pharoah sitting up at the top precariouslybalanced as long as the foundation( the Israelites) stayed in place and did not leave and crumble his power...

Oh...it was not slavery....It was BONDAGE

Were they free to go?
Were they paid for their labor?
Were their children free?




.

 

[Joy4Uall]

My dogs need slaves too. To feed them, pick up their shit, and clean up after them when they barf in the house.

For that, I elect Old Fag and Faggly Nuttite

But we HUMANS don't need slaves - we are better than dogs, and we are better than the God of the Bible.

Old Testimate God was an SOB at times
......

As Scientific Humanists be can't endorse the OT God, because yes, he was an SOB.....so therefore we also can't endorse the ("divine"/magic/savior) JESUS either because he is in cahoots with his dad (the god of the OT, many Christians believe.)
We love "love your neighbor", etc. (things the philosopher Jesus said), but can't endorse Jesus' acceptance of his brutal father. There is a better way than Jesus.

 

[Joy4Uall]

My dogs need slaves too. To feed them, pick up their shit, and clean up after them when they barf in the house.

For that, I elect Old Fag and Faggly Nuttite

But we HUMANS don't need slaves - we are better than dogs, and we are better than the God of the Bible.

Old Testimate God was an SOB at times
Jesus was cool...God was nasty

One reason I left Christianity is that I felt that my family deserved an all-knowing "god" that was never an SOB. Do you Christians believe in your family enough to believe that they deserve a "god" that was never an SOB (because he's "perfect")?

Believe in your family ENOUGH to answer "yes" to that question - I know you can do it.

 

[shimon]

May favorite part of the Bible is how Moses fought to free the Jews from slavery

Then, when the Ten Commandments came out, God did not even include slavery.......had to put in about coveting.

Moses was a sucker

Not that I wish toget into your debate here but the correct term was BONDAGE.... Moses freed them from Bondage or Servitude to the Egyptian way of doing things which if you think about it mainly was the way they worshipped...He freed them from being in Bondage to the gods of Egypt ..One of the main gods of Egypt was Pharoah who placed all the impediments on them to keep them in servitude and help him keep the system in place that controlled not only them but his other subjects as well...Think of it as a pyramid with the Israelites holding up the structure and the pharoah sitting up at the top precariouslybalanced as long as the foundation( the Israelites) stayed in place and did not leave and crumble his power...

Oh...it was not slavery....It was BONDAGE

Were they free to go?
Were they paid for their labor?
Were their children free?

They actually where told to take treasure with them on the way out as payment...The interesting thing is most of that treasure was used in the building of the golden calf so it came to naught and also shows their gains from that system were symbolically worthless...

 

[shimon]

One other point which I failed to mention for any that are interested the original name for Egypt in Hebrew is Mitzriam which literally means house of bondage.. As I alluded the whole system employed there was to Bind the peoples to the system employed there... Another interesting thing is in Hebrew Egypt or Its proper name Mitzriam was referred to as the black lands not particularly because the people were black but because the soil was black from the runoff from the Nile river every year...In any case if any wish to study this further there are some interesting web pages on line but make sure the proper understanding of the Hebrew words are used in context...One other point originally the Hebrews were free but the Egyptian leaders figured a plan to Control and subjugate them by using public works projects..I was told by a good authority this was done by first telling all the peoples Egyptians included to help build these projects together sort of community pride... As they were all working together the Egyptians slowly removed their own people until only the Israelites were doing the work then they set taskmasters over them to keep them working till they were completely bound to doing this work..The only exception was the tribe of Levi which did not agree to any of this work so they were exempt...This is the tribe Moses and Aaron come from...

 

[Syriusly]

1. The Bible did not condone slavery.
2. Slavery during this time was indentured servitude. People sold themselves as slaves when they could not pay their debts or provide for their families.
3. Both the OT and NT expressly forbid forced slavery. The penalty for such a crime in the Mosaic Law was death: “Anyone who kidnaps another and either sells him or still has him when he is caught must be put to death” (Exodus 21:16)
4. Indentured servants were treated pretty bad back in those days. Mosaic Law measurably raised the standards of treatment heads and shoulders above their contemporaries of the day.

As usual- you are an idiot.

God told the Jews in the Old Testament to kill the non-believers, except virgin girls- and take them as slaves.

Yes- that is forced slavery.

......

Yes, forced sexual slavery, unfortunately.

There is a better, more loving, more compassionate way, folks.
I'm glad as a Scientific Humanist I don't have to try to defend a book that seems to support slavery (or at least doesn't just say "end slavery w/in the next 30 years".) An all-knowing god would of course know that....or should we ALLOW slavery, today?

If you love as much as Scientific Humanists do, then you'll have a zero-tolerance policy when it comes to giving your children a book (that you endorse) that seems to approve of slavery. Love your children THIS much - you can do it! Don't risk being a bad parent - instead, always err on the side of love and compassion. Or at least tell your children: "the Bible got 'love your neighbor' RIGHT, but got slavery WRONG."

Is there really very much difference between being an indentured servant, a consensual slave, and being an employee?

Yep.

Indentured servant- legally obligated to work for the employer- often the law allowed the employer to abuse the indentured slave- no freedom of choice.
Consensual slave? Presumably a 'consensual slave' has freedom of choice- so really isn't a slave. That is sort of like saying 'consensual murder'.
Employee- freedom to accept employment- and leave employment.

 

[Syriusly]

May favorite part of the Bible is how Moses fought to free the Jews from slavery

Then, when the Ten Commandments came out, God did not even include slavery.......had to put in about coveting.

Moses was a sucker

Slavery is worse that coveting (obviously), so in Scientific Humanism we don't bring forward the divinity of the 10 Commandments because we believe that an all-knowing creator of everything would obviously know that ending slavery is a higher PRIORITY for the world than "not coveting" is. He would have put the Golden Rule in the top 10 too, of course - but he didn't.

The sad fact is that slavery was an economic necessity at the time. Advocating the elimination of slavery would have brought strict retribution at the time from the powers that be

No- slavery wasn't an 'economic necessity'.

Slavery was a way to economic power- the result of powerful people able to enslave others, and use their labor to enrich themselves.

 

[Syriusly]

It is interesting- in a book that has a very specific 10 Commandments- that one of them was not "though shall not have slaves"

But it does have advise that Christian slaves should obey their masters.

And that their masters should not abuse their slaves.

Note- Paul didn't say that masters should free their slaves- only that they should not abuse their slaves.

Heck Paul even sent a runaway slave back to his master!

Yes- the Bible did condone slavery.

That doesn't mean that the Bible is a bad book- there is much to be learned from the Bible.

I don't even understand why the OP has such a need to pretend otherwise.

 

[rightwinger]

May favorite part of the Bible is how Moses fought to free the Jews from slavery

Then, when the Ten Commandments came out, God did not even include slavery.......had to put in about coveting.

Moses was a sucker

Slavery is worse that coveting (obviously), so in Scientific Humanism we don't bring forward the divinity of the 10 Commandments because we believe that an all-knowing creator of everything would obviously know that ending slavery is a higher PRIORITY for the world than "not coveting" is. He would have put the Golden Rule in the top 10 too, of course - but he didn't.

The sad fact is that slavery was an economic necessity at the time. Advocating the elimination of slavery would have brought strict retribution at the time from the powers that be

No- slavery wasn't an 'economic necessity'.

Slavery was a way to economic power- the result of powerful people able to enslave others, and use their labor to enrich themselves.

Economic necessity for those in power

There was no such thing as "earning a paycheck". It was not their economic model. At best, you worked and you and your family were provided room and board. At worst.....you were a slave

 

[hobelim]

1. The Bible did not condone slavery.
2. Slavery during this time was indentured servitude. People sold themselves as slaves when they could not pay their debts or provide for their families.
3. Both the OT and NT expressly forbid forced slavery. The penalty for such a crime in the Mosaic Law was death: “Anyone who kidnaps another and either sells him or still has him when he is caught must be put to death” (Exodus 21:16)
4. Indentured servants were treated pretty bad back in those days. Mosaic Law measurably raised the standards of treatment heads and shoulders above their contemporaries of the day.

As usual- you are an idiot.

God told the Jews in the Old Testament to kill the non-believers, except virgin girls- and take them as slaves.

Yes- that is forced slavery.

......

Yes, forced sexual slavery, unfortunately.

There is a better, more loving, more compassionate way, folks.
I'm glad as a Scientific Humanist I don't have to try to defend a book that seems to support slavery (or at least doesn't just say "end slavery w/in the next 30 years".) An all-knowing god would of course know that....or should we ALLOW slavery, today?

If you love as much as Scientific Humanists do, then you'll have a zero-tolerance policy when it comes to giving your children a book (that you endorse) that seems to approve of slavery. Love your children THIS much - you can do it! Don't risk being a bad parent - instead, always err on the side of love and compassion. Or at least tell your children: "the Bible got 'love your neighbor' RIGHT, but got slavery WRONG."

Is there really very much difference between being an indentured servant, a consensual slave, and being an employee?

Yep.

Indentured servant- legally obligated to work for the employer- often the law allowed the employer to abuse the indentured slave- no freedom of choice.
Consensual slave? Presumably a 'consensual slave' has freedom of choice- so really isn't a slave. That is sort of like saying 'consensual murder'.
Employee- freedom to accept employment- and leave employment.

Like I said the modern means of subjugation are far more subtle and sophisticated.

Sure, anyone earning a slaves wage are free to quit their shitty jobs.... as long as they don't mind eating out of garbage cans or becoming homeless....

Many people are free to quit their well paying jobs too, but can't for the same reasons.


How many people degrade themselves and do fucked things to each other every day even though they are supposedly free and try to justify it by saying they are only doing their job?

what would you call it if not slavery? Is it really any different if the means by which they are enslaved leaves no physical mark on the body but instead leaves an indelible mark on the soul?


When scripture speaks about the wages of sin being death, you know it is not referring to money, right?

When Jesus said to people who thought that they were free that they were slaves to sin did it matter how rich or poor a person was or whether they were 'employed" or didn't have to work at all?.