SURPRISE!!...better be sitting down...Iran backs out of "Framework" "Deal"

[Derideo_Te]

The geography in the Middle East does not allow for an adequate response - if Iran were to launch, Israel would have less than 5 minutes, not nearly enough time to arm and launch a nuclear counterattack.

Israel has a nuclear armed submarine that can retaliate in the event of an attack.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

The geography in the Middle East does not allow for an adequate response - if Iran were to launch, Israel would have less than 5 minutes, not nearly enough time to arm and launch a nuclear counterattack.

Israel has a nuclear armed submarine that can retaliate in the event of an attack.

Iran is not in the least bit interested in using a nuke.
They want it for the bargaining power it brings. And have joyously spent copius cash on it for years while their citizens suffer under catastrophic poverty.

 

[Spare_change]

The geography in the Middle East does not allow for an adequate response - if Iran were to launch, Israel would have less than 5 minutes, not nearly enough time to arm and launch a nuclear counterattack.

Israel has a nuclear armed submarine that can retaliate in the event of an attack.

Iran is not in the least bit interested in using a nuke.
They want it for the bargaining power it brings. And have joyously spent copius cash on it for years while their citizens suffer under catastrophic poverty.

You're willing to gamble the future of the world on your opinion? Man -- I wish I had that kind of confidence.

 

[Coyote]

Boy, that was an answer to my question????? Not!!!

I support Israel over Iran, any day of the week....So stop your bull CRAP....

I don't support the US sending our fathers and sons and husbands to their possible deaths for another nation....our founding fathers felt the same way...and only if Iran becomes a threat to the USA, should US Citizens be sent to die.

I DO NOT, IN ANY WAY SUPPORT PREEMPTIVE WAR....the Bush Doctrine....it goes against everything our founders stood for.

If Iran becomes a real threat to Israel, and tries to attack Israel, then Israel should blow them up to smithereens.

I do like your black-white view of the world. IF Iran becomes a real threat to Israel? If? ..... Amazing.

Yes. "If".

We have the capability to save a million lives, and you don't think we should. Instead, we should sit on our ass and do nothing. Amazing.

What million lives need saving?

The Syrians in the wake of ISIS?
Iraqi civilians, after we mucked up their state?
The Congolese, in the wake of a decades long civil war?

We have the capability to establish an influence in a critical portion of the world, and you don't think we should. I guess your great-great grandfather probably felt the same about California and Texas. Amazing.

"Pre-emptive" war gave us today's Iraq. Is this the "influence" you wish to establish?

First --- do you have any doubt that millions will die if Iran secures the bomb? We - and only we - have the capability to stop that. If we don't, then we deserve their blood on our hands.

It's highly speculative what will happen IF they do. If you are thinking they will turn around and start nuking countries - I doubt it. If you mean it will set off another arms race, further destabilize the region, increase their regional footprint - possibly to probably.

Does that mean we should just go to war without attempting a negotiated settlement first? No.

Second - the failure of our political leaders to do what is right and just should not be used as justification for not doing it again.

What's "right"? What is "right"? A negotiated deal to limit them and buy time for something better? Or yet another war in a region that already has multiple conflicts destabilizing formerly stable regimes, stemming from one of our brilliant "pre-emptive" strategies?

Third - The 'pre-emptive' war did NOT give us today's Iraq. The failure of the current administration to properly execute the end game of the war is what gave us today's Iraq.

The current administration is not responsible for today's Iraq. That is directly on the shoulders of those who were so naive they had no clue what would really happen when they toppled Saddam. They broke it and the current administration is being tasked with fixing it.

Highly speculative? They have told you, repeatedly, what they intend to do!! They have been as clear and explicit as you could ever possibly hope for. But yet, you think that is 'speculative'?

Rhetoric doesn't equal action. Look around the world. Yes. It's speculative.

This concept of an arms race, and MADD, in the Middle East is naive and irresponsible. MADD was a viable strategy between the USSR and USA because of the flight times. Once Moscow launched, we would have sufficient time to launch a counterstrike. Thus, launching an attack was not in Moscow's best interest.

The geography in the Middle East does not allow for an adequate response - if Iran were to launch, Israel would have less than 5 minutes, not nearly enough time to arm and launch a nuclear counterattack. Unquestionably, Israel would lose hundreds of thousands of people, with virtually little or no counter-damage to offset it. For either country, initiating a pre-emptive attack is militarily advantageous.

If Israel were successful in intercepting the Iranian missiles, we would have a nuclear event over Jordan. Wonder how that would go down?

[/quote]

Iran using a nuclear weapon on another country would guarantee a nuclear response that would obliterate it. Iran is not suicidal - there are other nuclear powers surrounding it, with weaponry far more powerful than anything Iran could build.

Negotiated settlement in the Middle East first? Just exactly what do you think we've been trying to do for the past 36 years? From Carter to Reagan to Bush to Obama, we have been trying to come to a diplomatic resolution, and have been spectacularly unsuccessful. We have always had time - until now. We have reached the endgame in the Middle East. Either we fix it now, or WWIII is an inevitability. Simply - WE ARE OUT OF TIME!

What prior negotiations have we had with Iran over nuclear capability?

Refusing to accept the reality that Obama screwed up the end of the Iraq war is morally and intellectually corrupt. You are ignoring history. How long did we keep troops in Germany, Italy, or Japan after WWII? What did those troops do? They provided stability while the peoples of those countries figured out what they were going to do post-war. It took our own country 7 years to create its Constitution, it took Germany 5 years, and Japan 4 years. Why in the world did we insist that Iraq have it created, and implemented in 3 years? Iraqi leaders wanted our soldiers in-country, but Obama misplayed his hand and pulled them out prematurely. What was a country on the path to democracy and stability became a target ripe for takeover. That is an ugly, and torturous path, full of potholes and misdirection - but we short-stopped the whole process in order to fill a campaign promise. Oh yeah, Obama is directly responsible for the conditions in Iraq today - he misinterpreted the political environment, failed to recognize the steps needed to close the deal, and misjudged the competition (they're just the JV, right?)

I'm not ignoring history. You're ignoring current events. We kept troops in Europe with the agreement of those countries. We had no such agreement to keep troops in Iraq. Obama was implementing Bush's agreement to get the troops out. What's more - any agreement the Iraqi's would have agreed to would have left our troops vulnerable to the Iraqi justice system.

 

[Theowl32]

Liberals, especially the so called Jewish Americans like stats who are in fact KAPOS and modern day judases and dance around todays version of the golden calf....

Love the fact that the Iran will eventually annihilate Israel.

Hope you are all ready to burn in hell. We told you so. All of the blood will be on your hands. All of it.

Yuck it up. You have no idea what your fate is and I love that.

Oh, and in case any of you want to know what KAPOS are......

The German concentration camps depended on the cooperation of trustee inmates who supervised the prisoners. Known as Kapos, these trustees carried out the will of the Nazi camp commandants and guards, and were often as brutal as their SScounterparts. Many of these Kapos were Jewish, and even they inflicted harsh treatment on their fellow prisoners. For many, failure to perform their duties would have resulted in severe punishment and even death, but many historians view their actions as a form of complicity. After the war, the prosecution of Kapos as war criminals, particularly those who were Jewish, created an ethical dilemma which continues to this day.

Kapos Jewish Virtual Library

Fuck you liberals.

 

[Coyote]

Liberals, especially the so called Jewish Americans like stats who are in fact KAPOS and modern day judases and dance around todays version of the golden calf....

Love the fact that the Iran will eventually annihilate Israel.

Hope you are all ready to burn in hell. We told you so. All of the blood will be on your hands. All of it.

Yuck it up. You have no idea what your fate is and I love that.

Oh, and in case any of you want to know what KAPOS are......

The German concentration camps depended on the cooperation of trustee inmates who supervised the prisoners. Known as Kapos, these trustees carried out the will of the Nazi camp commandants and guards, and were often as brutal as their SScounterparts. Many of these Kapos were Jewish, and even they inflicted harsh treatment on their fellow prisoners. For many, failure to perform their duties would have resulted in severe punishment and even death, but many historians view their actions as a form of complicity. After the war, the prosecution of Kapos as war criminals, particularly those who were Jewish, created an ethical dilemma which continues to this day.

Kapos Jewish Virtual Library

Fuck you liberals.

Oh brother. Yet another inaccurate and shoddy appeal to emotion via a Nazi comparison.

 

[bendog]

...and just like so many said here, and were berated by Obama followers for saying so - Iran's Ayahtolla states he will not support any deal that includes UN inspections of nuke sites....which means of course he will support no deal at all.

Shocked, shocked I say!!!

Iran s leader says no to military inspections - CNN.com

Iran s leader rejects foreign access to military sites scientists Fox News

Then the deal falls through.

And the sanctions remain. It would be the best outcome, because the pressure would increase from within Iran to get rid of sanctions.

The geography in the Middle East does not allow for an adequate response - if Iran were to launch, Israel would have less than 5 minutes, not nearly enough time to arm and launch a nuclear counterattack.

Israel has a nuclear armed submarine that can retaliate in the event of an attack.

It's either 5 or 7 subs. I forget.

Hopefully, the deal falls through and the 5 plus 1 remain firm on sanctions.

 

[Derideo_Te]

"Oh brother. Yet another inaccurate and shoddy appeal to emotion via a Nazi comparison."

If you like I could report it as a anti-semitic flame and ask to have it removed since it adds nothing of substance to the topic.

 

[bendog]

And Germany built the Israeli subs. LOL

 

[Care4all]

sure, all we need is another quagmire with another country in the middle east....it's safer now than it would be if we went to war with them and removed their regime....

UNLESS you want to make Iran another State of the United States to give us 51, and we keep our men and women serving there for at least 100 years, with countless deaths....

YES Please, tell us all about this rosy peace on Earth scenario that will happen in Iran and the middle east if we went to war with Iran.... sheesh

You can take that and shove it, war mongering ass hats, and send yourself or your own sons and daughters to their death to help (make things worse)....if you are so concerned.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

You're willing to gamble the future of the world on your opinion? Man -- I wish I had that kind of confidence.

Not at all. I am just stating my opinion as to why they want them.
Any country who launches a nuke, even a small one, is essentially committing suicide.
If Iran launched the smallest nuke in the world on Israel and it was successful? Both Israel and America would deploy country-ending destroyers/carriers within a few days.
We can essentially bomb Iran to dust in less than 24 hours if the full might of the U.S. was unleashed...without using a single nuclear bomb or a single boot on the ground. Most people simply have no idea how powerful the U.S. navy is.
In fact, the U.S. Navy has more abilities than the rest of the worlds navy's...combined.

 

[Spare_change]

sure, all we need is another quagmire with another country in the middle east....it's safer now than it would be if we went to war with them and removed their regime....

UNLESS you want to make Iran another State of the United States to give us 51, and we keep our men and women serving there for at least 100 years, with countless deaths....

YES Please, tell us all about this rosy peace on Earth scenario that will happen in Iran and the middle east if we went to war with Iran.... sheesh

You can take that and shove it, war mongering ass hats, and send yourself or your own sons and daughters to their death to help (make things worse)....if you are so concerned.

Nothing like a good ol' dose of emotion-filled ranting and raving completely devoid of reality. Sure shot your credibility all to hell, though.

 

[Derideo_Te]

sure, all we need is another quagmire with another country in the middle east....it's safer now than it would be if we went to war with them and removed their regime....

UNLESS you want to make Iran another State of the United States to give us 51, and we keep our men and women serving there for at least 100 years, with countless deaths....

YES Please, tell us all about this rosy peace on Earth scenario that will happen in Iran and the middle east if we went to war with Iran.... sheesh

You can take that and shove it, war mongering ass hats, and send yourself or your own sons and daughters to their death to help (make things worse)....if you are so concerned.

Nothing like a good ol' dose of emotion-filled ranting and raving completely devoid of reality. Sure shot your credibility all to hell, though.

Ironic coming from a poster with negative credibility.

 

[IlarMeilyr]

sure, all we need is another quagmire with another country in the middle east....it's safer now than it would be if we went to war with them and removed their regime....

UNLESS you want to make Iran another State of the United States to give us 51, and we keep our men and women serving there for at least 100 years, with countless deaths....

YES Please, tell us all about this rosy peace on Earth scenario that will happen in Iran and the middle east if we went to war with Iran.... sheesh

You can take that and shove it, war mongering ass hats, and send yourself or your own sons and daughters to their death to help (make things worse)....if you are so concerned.

Nothing like a good ol' dose of emotion-filled ranting and raving completely devoid of reality. Sure shot your credibility all to hell, though.

Ironic coming from a poster with negative credibility.

?

You mean like you commenting on anybody else's alleged lack of credibility, Dizzy?

 

[Votto]

I'm not sure why anyone believes anything they say, even if they promised to abide by the deal.

When I say "they", I mean Iran and/or Obama.

 

[Votto]

Is it time to have James Taylor sing to the Saudis?

I was thinking Barbra Streisand.

Use her as a secret WMD.

 

[JimH52]

What are we going to do? Go to war??? Get another 10,000, 50,000 or 100,000 American soliders killed and another 5 trillion more spent on nation building.

Let's not and lets spend it on ourselves!!! Lets spend it on infrastructure, science, r&d and education! War is dumb!

Iran is the next target for the GOP. If they win in 2016, you can count on it. Halliburton has already my expansion plans beginning in 2018.

 

[idb]

I support Israel over Iran, any day of the week....So stop your bull CRAP..

If you aren't willing to go to war to protect an ally, you are no ally. All you are saying is "I'll be over here cheering you on" while an entire offensive line comes barreling towards them. You don't support Israel. You are begging for its destruction with this farce you call a "framework" deal. Not all problems can be solved through peaceful methods. You can't give them a bouquet of roses and hope to win them over.

I DO NOT, IN ANY WAY SUPPORT PREEMPTIVE WAR....the Bush Doctrine....it goes against everything our founders stood for.

So how did America gain it's Independence? By negotiating with the King of England? No, America kicked his ass, with guns and cannons, not just a pens and papers.

If Iran becomes a real threat to Israel, and tries to attack Israel, then Israel should blow them up to smithereens.

Even as advanced as Israel's military is, it can't fight off everyone who tries to kill them. This cut and run crap is old.

Gosh, I wish I was as brave as you!

I support Israel over Iran, any day of the week....So stop your bull CRAP..

If you aren't willing to go to war to protect an ally, you are no ally. All you are saying is "I'll be over here cheering you on" while an entire offensive line comes barreling towards them. You don't support Israel. You are begging for its destruction with this farce you call a "framework" deal. Not all problems can be solved through peaceful methods. You can't give them a bouquet of roses and hope to win them over.

I DO NOT, IN ANY WAY SUPPORT PREEMPTIVE WAR....the Bush Doctrine....it goes against everything our founders stood for.

So how did America gain it's Independence? By negotiating with the King of England? No, America kicked his ass, with guns and cannons, not just a pens and papers.

If Iran becomes a real threat to Israel, and tries to attack Israel, then Israel should blow them up to smithereens.

Even as advanced as Israel's military is, it can't fight off everyone who tries to kill them. This cut and run crap is old.

Gosh, I wish I was as brave as you!

It has nothing to do with bravery --- it has to do with the commitment to your fellow man. Some, apparently, are so self centered that they are willing to allow millions to die in a nuclear holocaust than take a positive step forward.

Hang on a cotton pickin' minute!
You made the accusation a couple of posts back that Liberals only see the world in black or white...no greys.

I do love, however, the on-off mentality of the left .... either we give in, or we go to war. Y'all need to wake up and realize the world is gray.

Now, you're the one saying that the only options are going to war or millions dying in a nuclear holocaust.
There are no other options in your view?
Nothing in the middle...no 'greys'?

I don't suppose you'll see the inconsistency in your position at all.

 

[Spare_change]

I support Israel over Iran, any day of the week....So stop your bull CRAP..

If you aren't willing to go to war to protect an ally, you are no ally. All you are saying is "I'll be over here cheering you on" while an entire offensive line comes barreling towards them. You don't support Israel. You are begging for its destruction with this farce you call a "framework" deal. Not all problems can be solved through peaceful methods. You can't give them a bouquet of roses and hope to win them over.

I DO NOT, IN ANY WAY SUPPORT PREEMPTIVE WAR....the Bush Doctrine....it goes against everything our founders stood for.

So how did America gain it's Independence? By negotiating with the King of England? No, America kicked his ass, with guns and cannons, not just a pens and papers.

If Iran becomes a real threat to Israel, and tries to attack Israel, then Israel should blow them up to smithereens.

Even as advanced as Israel's military is, it can't fight off everyone who tries to kill them. This cut and run crap is old.

Gosh, I wish I was as brave as you!

I support Israel over Iran, any day of the week....So stop your bull CRAP..

If you aren't willing to go to war to protect an ally, you are no ally. All you are saying is "I'll be over here cheering you on" while an entire offensive line comes barreling towards them. You don't support Israel. You are begging for its destruction with this farce you call a "framework" deal. Not all problems can be solved through peaceful methods. You can't give them a bouquet of roses and hope to win them over.

I DO NOT, IN ANY WAY SUPPORT PREEMPTIVE WAR....the Bush Doctrine....it goes against everything our founders stood for.

So how did America gain it's Independence? By negotiating with the King of England? No, America kicked his ass, with guns and cannons, not just a pens and papers.

If Iran becomes a real threat to Israel, and tries to attack Israel, then Israel should blow them up to smithereens.

Even as advanced as Israel's military is, it can't fight off everyone who tries to kill them. This cut and run crap is old.

Gosh, I wish I was as brave as you!

It has nothing to do with bravery --- it has to do with the commitment to your fellow man. Some, apparently, are so self centered that they are willing to allow millions to die in a nuclear holocaust than take a positive step forward.

Hang on a cotton pickin' minute!
You made the accusation a couple of posts back that Liberals only see the world in black or white...no greys.

I do love, however, the on-off mentality of the left .... either we give in, or we go to war. Y'all need to wake up and realize the world is gray.

Now, you're the one saying that the only options are going to war or millions dying in a nuclear holocaust.
There are no other options in your view?
Nothing in the middle...no 'greys'?

I don't suppose you'll see the inconsistency in your position at all.

You need to work on your reading comprehension ....

I said that liberals believe that there are only two alternatives - capitulation or nuclear war. That is THEIR options - not mine. Need proof? Go back and look where a conservative says that Obama screwed this thing up. Immediately, the response from the left is "Well, what do you want? A nuclear war?" Capitulation or nuclear war - and nothing in between. It is this black-white mentality that drove the current administration to roll over on virtually every demand Iran made --- and they STILL couldn't get a deal. They HAD to have a deal - any deal.

In fact, if you look, you will see that I proposed INCREASED sanctions to force them to come back to the table ready to settle. Seal the border with Iraq - seal the border with Afghanistan - seal the border with Turkey - nothing in, nothing out. Make it painful. I was accused of advocating nuclear war, simply because I was unwilling to capitulate. (Same ol' thought process --- capitulate or nuclear war), when, in fact, I present an escalating set of alternatives. There ARE a lot of grays out there ... they just aren't interested in finding them.

 

[idb]

I support Israel over Iran, any day of the week....So stop your bull CRAP..

If you aren't willing to go to war to protect an ally, you are no ally. All you are saying is "I'll be over here cheering you on" while an entire offensive line comes barreling towards them. You don't support Israel. You are begging for its destruction with this farce you call a "framework" deal. Not all problems can be solved through peaceful methods. You can't give them a bouquet of roses and hope to win them over.

I DO NOT, IN ANY WAY SUPPORT PREEMPTIVE WAR....the Bush Doctrine....it goes against everything our founders stood for.

So how did America gain it's Independence? By negotiating with the King of England? No, America kicked his ass, with guns and cannons, not just a pens and papers.

If Iran becomes a real threat to Israel, and tries to attack Israel, then Israel should blow them up to smithereens.

Even as advanced as Israel's military is, it can't fight off everyone who tries to kill them. This cut and run crap is old.

Gosh, I wish I was as brave as you!

I support Israel over Iran, any day of the week....So stop your bull CRAP..

If you aren't willing to go to war to protect an ally, you are no ally. All you are saying is "I'll be over here cheering you on" while an entire offensive line comes barreling towards them. You don't support Israel. You are begging for its destruction with this farce you call a "framework" deal. Not all problems can be solved through peaceful methods. You can't give them a bouquet of roses and hope to win them over.

I DO NOT, IN ANY WAY SUPPORT PREEMPTIVE WAR....the Bush Doctrine....it goes against everything our founders stood for.

So how did America gain it's Independence? By negotiating with the King of England? No, America kicked his ass, with guns and cannons, not just a pens and papers.

If Iran becomes a real threat to Israel, and tries to attack Israel, then Israel should blow them up to smithereens.

Even as advanced as Israel's military is, it can't fight off everyone who tries to kill them. This cut and run crap is old.

Gosh, I wish I was as brave as you!

It has nothing to do with bravery --- it has to do with the commitment to your fellow man. Some, apparently, are so self centered that they are willing to allow millions to die in a nuclear holocaust than take a positive step forward.

Hang on a cotton pickin' minute!
You made the accusation a couple of posts back that Liberals only see the world in black or white...no greys.

I do love, however, the on-off mentality of the left .... either we give in, or we go to war. Y'all need to wake up and realize the world is gray.

Now, you're the one saying that the only options are going to war or millions dying in a nuclear holocaust.
There are no other options in your view?
Nothing in the middle...no 'greys'?

I don't suppose you'll see the inconsistency in your position at all.

You need to work on your reading comprehension ....

I said that liberals believe that there are only two alternatives - capitulation or nuclear war. That is THEIR options - not mine. Need proof? Go back and look where a conservative says that Obama screwed this thing up. Immediately, the response from the left is "Well, what do you want? A nuclear war?" Capitulation or nuclear war - and nothing in between. It is this black-white mentality that drove the current administration to roll over on virtually every demand Iran made --- and they STILL couldn't get a deal. They HAD to have a deal - any deal.

In fact, if you look, you will see that I proposed INCREASED sanctions to force them to come back to the table ready to settle. Seal the border with Iraq - seal the border with Afghanistan - seal the border with Turkey - nothing in, nothing out. Make it painful. I was accused of advocating nuclear war, simply because I was unwilling to capitulate. (Same ol' thought process --- capitulate or nuclear war), when, in fact, I present an escalating set of alternatives. There ARE a lot of grays out there ... they just aren't interested in finding them.

My reading comprehension is excellent thank you.
You just can't recognise the inconsistency of your argument.
You wrote this

Some, apparently, are so self centered that they are willing to allow millions to die in a nuclear holocaust than take a positive step forward.

Not too many greys in there...either millions die in a nuclear holocaust or, what, the US invades Iran?
Is there no middle ground in your mind?
No greys?