Iran - where is it heading?

[BlindBoo]

I believe the same thing could happen in Iran

Iran never launched a war of conquest for natural resources. I don't think we could punish Iran like we punished and terrorized the Japanese citizens in the final year of the war. (Not that we couldn't do it physically to them but there is no justification for that. The Japanese were ready for their emperor to surrender.

 

[Rigby5]

Sanctions need to be smart and flexible, not absolute.

Flexible sanctions aren't sanctions at all.

You want Iran to stop their nonsense, seal their borders and let nothing in or out until the white flag goes up.

Anyone doing that would be such a threat to the whole worlds, they would have to be utterly destroyed.
Economic sanctions are immoral and are illegal under US and international law.

 

[Rigby5]

As long as the US isn't involved, let the locals slug it out.

The US isn't involved?
The US is forcing the whole world to go along with that stupid version of a sanctions program.

The only thing 'stupid' about Iran sanctions is they they allow food and medicine to come in.

Sanctions need to absolute.

Sanctions need to be smart and flexible, not absolute.
If you make them absolute, you foster massive amounts of hatred. And in this case, far outside Iran as well. Even in Europe, against Europeans, for going along with your absolute sanctions program. You forcing your allies to go along with your sanctions program is going to back fire big time on the 3 to 20, 30 year time-scales.

No one is "forced" to go along. They want to because it is right.

A google search for "europe sanctions iran" disagrees with that.

So link it

Europe Circumvents U.S. Sanctions On Iran

Three EU governments have created an SPV which would enable companies to trade with Iran without breaking sanctions.

www.forbes.com

{...

Europe Circumvents U.S. Sanctions On Iran​

Europe has found a way of circumventing U.S. sanctions on Iran. The governments of France, Germany and the United Kingdom have developed a special purpose vehicle (SPV) to enable European businesses to maintain non-dollar trade with Iran without breaking U.S. sanctions. That SPV, known as INSTEX, is now up and running.

The three governments announced the successful implementation of INSTEX at a meeting of the Joint Commission of the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action (JCPOA) on June 28, 2019. The meeting was chaired on behalf of the EU by the Secretary General of the European External Action Service (EEAS), Helga Schmid, and was attended by representatives of China, France, Germany, Russia, the United Kingdom, and Iran.

In a statement, Schmid said:

France, Germany and the United Kingdom informed participants that INSTEX had been made operational and available to all EU Member States and that the first transactions are being processed. Ongoing complementary cooperation with the Iranian corresponding entity (STFI), which has already been established, will speed up. They confirmed that some EU Member States were in the process of joining INSTEX as shareholders, the special purpose vehicle aimed at facilitating legitimate business with Iran. They are also working to open INSTEX to economic operators from third countries.

JCPOA is better known as the “Iran nuclear deal.” The U.S. unilaterally withdrew from JCPOA in May 2018, when it reimposed sanctions on Iran’s oil export sector. But other countries, including EU member states, have so far declined to follow suit. They claim that Iran is complying with the terms of the deal, and the U.S.’s decision to reimpose sanctions was unjustified.

When the U.S. withdrew from JCPOA, it said that companies breaking the reimposed sanctions would face stiff penalties. Among the companies the U.S. administration listed as potential sanctions-breakers was the Brussels-based international messaging service SWIFT, which is the lifeblood of international payments. In November, evidently concerned about the potential consequences for global payments if the U.S. retaliated against it, SWIFT announced that it would comply with U.S. sanctions:

In keeping with our mission of supporting the resilience and integrity of the global financial system as a global and neutral service provider, Swift is suspending certain Iranian banks’ access to the messaging system. This step, while regrettable, has been taken in the interest of the stability and integrity of the wider global financial system.

This was widely seen as a setback for the EU, which had been hoping that SWIFT would defy the U.S. and maintain payment services to Iran. But European governments were still determined to find a way of keeping trade with Iran going. If SWIFT wouldn’t help, they would create something to replace SWIFT for Iranian trade. Thus, INSTEX was born.

Exactly how does INSTEX facilitate trade with Iran without making sanctions-busting cross-border payments? In a word – barter. INSTEX matches the Euro payments of companies buying goods from Iran with the Euro receipts of companies selling goods to Iran. Imagine a company based in France wants to sell transport equipment to a buyer in Iran. Receiving Euro payments directly from that buyer would break U.S. sanctions. So instead, the French company would register the sale documentation with INSTEX. INSTEX would look on its own books for a company buying foodstuffs from Iran. It would match the two cash flows so that in effect the two European companies pay each other. The goods would still travel to and from Iran, but the money would stay entirely within the EU.
...}

 

[Rigby5]

a strategy for getting Iran to feel less threatened

Iran isn't threatened by anyone (with the possible exception of Iraq). The ayatollahs and politicians of Iran use the illusion of a external threat as an excuse to subjugate the population.

It's a very common practice in dictatorial regimes. North Korea has been using it for 70 years.

Wrong.
The US paid the Iranian military to stage a coup in 1953, to end the democracy in Iran.
Tens of thousands were murdered.
We have been deliberately trying to always prevent democracy in Iraq ever since.

The illegal economic sanctions are just the latest crimes against humanity the US has committed regarding Iran.

 

[Rigby5]

It will just be more proxy wars..

Yeah because appeasment will work better

Appeasement isn't the answer, but perhaps a strategy for getting Iran to feel less threatened so they can rejoin the international community as a good citizen.

Iran is never going to be a "good citizen." Don't be naïve.

The opposite is true.
Iran is likely about the most civilized and fair of all the Mideast countries.
For example, it has the largest Jewish population, with its last Prime Minister, Ahmadinejad being Jewish, and over 30,000 Jews in Tehran alone.
Iran is one of the few Mideast Countries that never participated in any war with Israel.

 

[Rigby5]

It will just be more proxy wars..

Yeah because appeasment will work better

Appeasement isn't the answer, but perhaps a strategy for getting Iran to feel less threatened so they can rejoin the international community as a good citizen.

Iran is never going to be a "good citizen." Don't be naïve.

America has never faced an ally as fanatical as Japan in the 2nd World War. Dedicated soldiers who would commit suicide as an alternative to surrender. Japan launch more suicide attacks at Allied Forces in the last years of World War II than Islamic countries have in the past 30 years.

Now Japan is a model citizen in the fraternity of nations. To bring about such a change took a complete restructuring of the Japanese leadership and the removal on the fanatical element. But, it the volteface was accomplished in only a few years.

I believe the same thing could happen in Iran, if the fanatics running the country could be removed. As a people, Individually, Iranians are friendly, generous, and hospitable to a fault, as are many from the Arab/Persian culture.

It's only when they are influenced by fanatical leaders that they start acting like a sack full of glue-sniffing civet cats.

Except that considering how badly the French, British, Russians, and US have treated Iran, I don't think those fanatical Iranian leaders are far off.

 

[Rigby5]

Maybe you should understand why Hezbollah came into existence.

Hezbollah came into existence for precisely the same reasons as Hamas, and The Taliban, and ISIS, and the PLO, and every one of those groups ... there is money in fanaticism for those who can rally disaffected fanatics to their cause.

View attachment 504266

By which you are admitting it is our fault for abusing these countries in the first place.
If we had not abused them, then they would have have had to rely on fanatical leaders.

 

[easyt65]

Iran - where is it heading?​

 

[easyt65]

Iran - where is it heading?​

COBALT BOMB

They would settle for a 'dirty bomb' detonation in NY Harbor

 

[Rigby5]

Maybe you should understand why Hezbollah came into existence.

Hezbollah came into existence for precisely the same reasons as Hamas, and The Taliban, and ISIS, and the PLO, and every one of those groups ... there is money in fanaticism for those who can rally disaffected fanatics to their cause.

View attachment 504266

Be honest for a change. Hezbollah came into existence because Israel couldn't leave Lebanon alone since the early 1950s. HAMAS was Israel's baby. They supported its founding as a foil against the PLO.

another installment of islamo-nazi propaganda. Nothing new. The stuff I read in the 1950s
was mostly written in Syria and Egypt by escapees from the Nuremburg Trials. Way back then---
as a kid of about 10-----I was impressed and had no idea who was generating the stuff. At 19
I got a job in a very large county hospital that had interns and residents from ALL over the
world. Those who were muslims, mostly trained in south east asia. knew this crap as well
as does Surada and could quote it chapter and verse.....same stuff. I learned so many NEW
FACTs too----like Nelson Rockefeller ----governor of New York back then WAS A JEW-----
The Surgeon from Pakistan INSISTED. it gets worse---but there is always more time.

Whether or not Rockefellers actually are Jewish descent I do not know, but it is a very common opinion, and not to be dismissed so lightly.

{...
An article at Henry Makow’s site by Willie Martin caught my attention.

A book overlooked by most people and published for sale mainly within the Jewish community states that the Rockefellers are Jews of Sephardic descent (meaning Spanish and Portuguese Jews). The work was published only for Jews some years ago. The work was compiled by the Jewish historian Malcolm H. Stern and entitled “Americans of Jewish Decent.”
That book weighed 10 pounds and gave the history of 25,000 Jewish individuals in America. It is extremely interesting to note that only 550 copies of the book were printed and each copy was consecutively numbered. The book was delivered to the top Jewish community leaders in America for their personal reference files in dealing with and contacting Jews who are “Marranos” (those Jews who “PRETEND” to be Christians in their community but secretly hold to their Jewish faith and race when among their own kind.)
Stephen Birmingham in “The Grandees” reports: “Who would expect to find the Rockefellers in the book.” Stern’s work traces what he calls the “Nobility of Jewry – the Sephardim who lived in Spain and Portugal as princes of the land.”

...}

Jews were a fairly large group of 12 tribes at one time, and probably almost the entire world population, after the Asians migrated through the Mideast, likely have a significant Jewish blood line.

Besides bloodline, the Mideast quickly picked up on the Old Testament and adopted Jewish beliefs as well.
For example, Islam and Christianity are only slight variations off of Judaism.
The Romans also promoted Judaism since that gave them more power through their puppet King Herod.

What is humorous is that eastern Jewish Ashkenazi like Netanyahu, likely is much less of actual Jewish bloodline than the Arab Palestinians who likely have had much more historical mingling with the original 12 Hebrew tribes..

 

[Rigby5]

Whereever this thread came from, I just hope Biden's admin links removing sanctions to Iran not sponsoring Hamas or any other group

Hamas is one of the best groups in the world, in that they are not attacking anyone offensively, but are the natives under attack by foreign invaders.

 

[Rigby5]

Whereever this thread came from, I just hope Biden's admin links removing sanctions to Iran not sponsoring Hamas or any other group

do you expect Iran to admit sponsoring Hamas?

All rational people sponsor Hamas since they are the democratically elected representatives of the indigenous natives.
Even the US sponsors Hamas to a degree.

 

[Rigby5]

..., if the fanatics running the country could be removed. ....

If the theocracy were overthrown, I would consider it a different country for all practical purposes.

I don't like theocracies in general, but Islam was needed since back in 650 AD government did not yet recognize the role it should play in social organization, like welfare for widows, orphans, and disabled.
The fact Iran is still a theocracy when theocracies are no longer essential, is an admirable cultural tradition.
For example, Judaism is just as much as a theocracy, and we see Israel being even more theocratic than Iran even.

 

[Rigby5]

Iran - where is it heading?​

View attachment 504414

So?
There are over a dozen countries with nuclear weapons, and the only one who has abused them is the US.
The more others have them, the less likely anyone will abuse them again.
They become defensive only once enough people have them.

 

[easyt65]

Hamas is one of the best groups in the world, in that they are not attacking anyone offensively

WTF?

Please define 'best'.
- One of the 'best' WHAT? TERRORISTS? Not even that - they are stupid. They get their ass kicked every time they they attack, lob thousands of rockets into Israel.

Hamas launched close to 20,000 rockets indiscriminately into Israel just recently.

'OFFENSIVELY':
"in an actively aggressive or attacking manner."
- Hamas, again, attacked Israel with close to 20,000 rockets

Palestinian rocket attacks on Israel - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Rigby5]

Iran - where is it heading?​

COBALT BOMB
View attachment 504416

They would settle for a 'dirty bomb' detonation in NY Harbor

They are not going to make an offensive first strike because they would have too much to lose.
It is the US that makes all the offensive first strikes, like the illegal invasions of Iraq, Afghanistan, Panama, Grenada, Syria, etc., and it is time we stopped doing those illegal regime changes by force.
They are against US law as well as international law.

 

[easyt65]

They are not going to make an offensive first strike because they would have too much to lose.

It's called 'plausible deniability'.

Iran has a large number of surrogate groups that they fund, supply, aid, abet, etc.....

 

[Unkotare]

...,.we see Israel being even more theocratic than Iran even.

That's absurd.

 

[Rigby5]

Hamas is one of the best groups in the world, in that they are not attacking anyone offensively

WTF?

Please define 'best'.
- One of the 'best' WHAT? TERRORISTS? Not even that - they are stupid. They get their ass kicked every time they they attack, lob thousands of rockets into Israel.

Hamas launched close to 20,000 rockets indiscriminately into Israel just recently.

'OFFENSIVELY':
"in an actively aggressive or attacking manner."
- Hamas, again, attacked Israel with close to 20,000 rockets

Palestinian rocket attacks on Israel - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

That is silly.
Hamas has never been guilty of anything.
They are purely defensive, and do not even launch rockets until dozens of innocents have been illegally murdered.

If you look at a map, it is easy to see how and why Israel keeps murdering innocent natives.

Clearly Israel could not have accomplished this without the murder of tens of thousands of native Arab villagers.
Read some history, like the massacre of Dier Yassin.
The Zionists did not even risk executing the natives by gunfire, but as cowards, simply tossed enough hand grenades into each home to kill everyone, including women and children.

No honest person could ever even begin to justify the massive and continuing crimes by Israel.
In comparison, Hamas looks like saints.

 

[Rigby5]

They are not going to make an offensive first strike because they would have too much to lose.

It's called 'plausible deniability'.

Iran has a large number of surrogate groups that they fund, supply, aid, abet, etc.....

Since when has the US ever cared about details like proof?
The US not only lied about Iraq having WMD, but then also lied and claimed Saddam was behind the 9/11 attacks.
I would not put it past the CIA to trigger a dirty bomb in NYC themselves, just to have an excuse to attack Iran.
The US does not need or care at all about something as elusive as truth.
If we did, then we would not have toppled the democracy in Iran in 1953.