State Takes Legal Action to Seize $135K From Bakers Who Refused to Make Cake for Lesbian Couple

[ChrisL]

It has been determined that refusing service to certain groups of Americans based upon personal discriminatory beliefs is harmful, not only to that individual but also to the economy of the state. Otherwise, such laws wouldn't exist. Sorry, but you can't turn back the hands of time. It has been determined that personal religious beliefs do not trump the rights of others. You are still able to discriminate against whomever you wish in your personal life. You are still able to choose any religious belief to follow and practice it openly and without fear of government reprisal. It's another story when you wish to conduct a business in this manner because it effects others believe it or not.

It isn't only about religion. I have a buddy that is agnostic like me and he doesn't support gays. If he owned a bakery, he would kick them out. How would it effect the economy? The people wouldn't go somewhere else? They would just give up on a cake because of some asshole?

And if such discrimination was allowed and all bakers in a community felt that way, where does a gay couple get a cake for their wedding? And if such discrimination was allowed, what happens when other groups are shunned? Where do Jews go if all businesses suddenly decide they don't want their business? Or blacks? Or Muslims? PA laws serve a very useful function.

You think that would really happen? lol
Its ok to introduce hypotheticals but at least make them believable

Of course it could happen. It happened in Germany back in the 1930s.

Yes, because we are 1930s Germany. SMH

Gotta keep the haters in check. They are free to hate on their own time. When they open up a business, they have to abide by the state's laws regarding fair business practice. If these laws were NOT of benefit to the states, they would not exist. If the states and lawmakers thought that their respective states' income and economic development would be better off with such discrimination allowed, then those laws would not have happened to begin with. Agree?

 

[martybegan]

So, if I think a person is too fat and I own a grocery store, I should be able to refuse to serve that person? No, you're too fat and have had enough Twinkies, IMO. Get out!

Absolutely, and they should have the right to never come back and tell their friends about you.

The problem is you're hitting a brad with a sledge hammer and taking out lots of other innocents along the way. Government has no legitimate power to force citizens to do business with each other

Actually government does, but it needs a compelling government interest to get involved. The commerce clause does give them the power, but progressives want that power as absolute, and libertarians such as myself (small "l") want the power tempered against the rights of others.

Bull, going to your grocery store has zero to do with interstate commerce

Then the states can make their own laws regarding PA(and most of these cases involve state law).

 

[ChrisL]

It's progressed because we passed laws that forced it to...

Could you stay consistent? Thanks

I am being consistent. The reason you feel these laws are no longer necessary is because,............................................................wait for it,.................................................they worked...

Those unconstitutional laws were never "needed". You are NOT consistent. First you say we haven't progressed then you said they did. I dont think you even know what you believe in

The laws are not unconstitutional, businesses are required to follow all kinds of regulations, and PA laws worked which is why you think they can be tossed now but they can't be because people like yourself still walk the earth. Got it now?

Yes, they are unconstitutional. The Constitution doesn't authorize the federal government to regulate business.

It's the STATE going after these people.

 

[bripat9643]

Notice how homophobic bigots always say the stupidest things. Gays didn't "target" any business. Walking into an establishment to give them your money isn't "targeting" in the sense you'd like it to be. Yes, the gays "targeted" the business...probably because they had a good yelp review or they had used the business in the past.

They'd ordered from Melissa's Sweet Cakes once before — for Cryer's mother's wedding — and they enjoyed it. So, they scheduled a Sweet Cake tasting for the following day.
​

Since you're an anti gay bigot, I'm sure you're not aware that Christians are a majority in this country. Not just a majority, but an overwhelming majority. Over 70% of the United States is comprised of self described Christians. Do you know how many Muslims there are in the US? Fewer than 1%. How many of that 1% do you think own wedding themed businesses?

If I was that business I would have made a cake of horse sh!t for them... And say so you want to force me to make a cake for you and your ilk, there you go. You have a fight to refuse product and I do too... What ever happened to " right to refuse service to anyone" chipping away at our freedoms one at a time.

Embrace the suck

PA laws outlawed that freedom.

Why didn't you guys cry when PA laws first appeared in the 60s?

Probably because I was in lindergarten.

Why such ignorance? Do you not understand the way our laws work and the reason why they exist? Are you advocating for Americans to discriminate against gay people?

I'm not advocating it, but the freedom to associate also means the freedom to not associate for whatever reason you deem appropriate.

 

[ChrisL]

If I was that business I would have made a cake of horse sh!t for them... And say so you want to force me to make a cake for you and your ilk, there you go. You have a fight to refuse product and I do too... What ever happened to " right to refuse service to anyone" chipping away at our freedoms one at a time.

Embrace the suck

PA laws outlawed that freedom.

Why didn't you guys cry when PA laws first appeared in the 60s?

Probably because I was in lindergarten.

Why such ignorance? Do you not understand the way our laws work and the reason why they exist? Are you advocating for Americans to discriminate against gay people?

I'm not advocating it, but the freedom to associate also means the freedom to no associate for whatever reason you deem appropriate.

That applies to your personal life, yes. Not with your business practice. Not for "whatever" reason. Nope.

 

[martybegan]

It isn't only about religion. I have a buddy that is agnostic like me and he doesn't support gays. If he owned a bakery, he would kick them out. How would it effect the economy? The people wouldn't go somewhere else? They would just give up on a cake because of some asshole?

And if such discrimination was allowed and all bakers in a community felt that way, where does a gay couple get a cake for their wedding? And if such discrimination was allowed, what happens when other groups are shunned? Where do Jews go if all businesses suddenly decide they don't want their business? Or blacks? Or Muslims? PA laws serve a very useful function.

You think that would really happen? lol
Its ok to introduce hypotheticals but at least make them believable

Of course it could happen. It happened in Germany back in the 1930s.

Yes, because we are 1930s Germany. SMH

Gotta keep the haters in check. They are free to hate on their own time. When they open up a business, they have to abide by the state's laws regarding fair business practice. If these laws were NOT of benefit to the states, they would not exist. If the states and lawmakers thought that their respective states' income and economic development would be better off with such discrimination allowed, then those laws would not have happened to begin with. Agree?

Again, where is the compelling government interest?

 

[ChrisL]

And if such discrimination was allowed and all bakers in a community felt that way, where does a gay couple get a cake for their wedding? And if such discrimination was allowed, what happens when other groups are shunned? Where do Jews go if all businesses suddenly decide they don't want their business? Or blacks? Or Muslims? PA laws serve a very useful function.

You think that would really happen? lol
Its ok to introduce hypotheticals but at least make them believable

Of course it could happen. It happened in Germany back in the 1930s.

Yes, because we are 1930s Germany. SMH

Gotta keep the haters in check. They are free to hate on their own time. When they open up a business, they have to abide by the state's laws regarding fair business practice. If these laws were NOT of benefit to the states, they would not exist. If the states and lawmakers thought that their respective states' income and economic development would be better off with such discrimination allowed, then those laws would not have happened to begin with. Agree?

Again, where is the compelling government interest?

I already answered that one.

 

[martybegan]

PA laws outlawed that freedom.

Why didn't you guys cry when PA laws first appeared in the 60s?

Probably because I was in lindergarten.

Why such ignorance? Do you not understand the way our laws work and the reason why they exist? Are you advocating for Americans to discriminate against gay people?

I'm not advocating it, but the freedom to associate also means the freedom to no associate for whatever reason you deem appropriate.

That applies to your personal life, yes. Not with your business practice. Not for "whatever" reason. Nope.

Where in the constitution does it state you lose your rights when you open a business?

 

[kaz]

It's progressed because we passed laws that forced it to...

Could you stay consistent? Thanks

Absolutely, and they should have the right to never come back and tell their friends about you.

The problem is you're hitting a brad with a sledge hammer and taking out lots of other innocents along the way. Government has no legitimate power to force citizens to do business with each other

Nobody is forcing you to open a public accommodation service business. It's as simple as that. If you cannot abide by the laws in your state (which, yes, they can set business practice laws), then you don't open a business, or not that type of business.

It's not just opening a business, it's working in one. So my choices are to starve or succumb to your tyranny. You're not a liberal, you're an authoritarian leftist

Nope it's about fair business practice and what is best for the state's interests and individual civil rights to be able to go into a store, take a bus, and shop where they choose without fear of being discriminated against. Now, personal issues, such as shoplifters, people who cause a commotion, etc., are another matter entirely. Those people are harming your business. You can ban them for such actions.

When did making life fair become a function of government?

Since, I don't know, the 1950s or 60s when anti-discrimination laws against black people were created? In the eyes of the law, all of us are the same. They don't recognize views that "some groups of people" are lesser citizens than others.

What a sad life you must live that you think making life fair for you is anyone's job but yours

 

[Iceweasel]

When it comes to systemic discrimination, or discrimination when it comes to timely services, or necessary services, I can see a compelling government interest, either at the federal level or the state level.

What I can't see is the compelling government interest in this case.

Yep, denying black folks food isn't quite on par with letting someone shop elsewhere for their cake. The fact that the left is incapable or unwilling to draw a distinction is all we need to know about them.

 

[martybegan]

You think that would really happen? lol
Its ok to introduce hypotheticals but at least make them believable

Of course it could happen. It happened in Germany back in the 1930s.

Yes, because we are 1930s Germany. SMH

Gotta keep the haters in check. They are free to hate on their own time. When they open up a business, they have to abide by the state's laws regarding fair business practice. If these laws were NOT of benefit to the states, they would not exist. If the states and lawmakers thought that their respective states' income and economic development would be better off with such discrimination allowed, then those laws would not have happened to begin with. Agree?

Again, where is the compelling government interest?

I already answered that one.

No you didn't, the interest may be compelling to YOU, but hurt feelings do not a compelling interest make.

 

[ChrisL]

Could you stay consistent? Thanks

Nobody is forcing you to open a public accommodation service business. It's as simple as that. If you cannot abide by the laws in your state (which, yes, they can set business practice laws), then you don't open a business, or not that type of business.

It's not just opening a business, it's working in one. So my choices are to starve or succumb to your tyranny. You're not a liberal, you're an authoritarian leftist

Nope it's about fair business practice and what is best for the state's interests and individual civil rights to be able to go into a store, take a bus, and shop where they choose without fear of being discriminated against. Now, personal issues, such as shoplifters, people who cause a commotion, etc., are another matter entirely. Those people are harming your business. You can ban them for such actions.

When did making life fair become a function of government?

Since, I don't know, the 1950s or 60s when anti-discrimination laws against black people were created? In the eyes of the law, all of us are the same. They don't recognize views that "some groups of people" are lesser citizens than others.

What a sad life you must live that you think making life fair for you is anyone's job but yours

For me? Well, I'm not gay, and obviously my life is less sad than yours. You are the one with the problem here, not me. Lol.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Why didn't you guys cry when PA laws first appeared in the 60s?

Probably because I was in lindergarten.

Why such ignorance? Do you not understand the way our laws work and the reason why they exist? Are you advocating for Americans to discriminate against gay people?

I'm not advocating it, but the freedom to associate also means the freedom to no associate for whatever reason you deem appropriate.

That applies to your personal life, yes. Not with your business practice. Not for "whatever" reason. Nope.

Where in the constitution does it state you lose your rights when you open a business?

Where does it state that you can lose your right to own a gun if you're a criminal? Same place...

 

[ChrisL]

Of course it could happen. It happened in Germany back in the 1930s.

Yes, because we are 1930s Germany. SMH

Gotta keep the haters in check. They are free to hate on their own time. When they open up a business, they have to abide by the state's laws regarding fair business practice. If these laws were NOT of benefit to the states, they would not exist. If the states and lawmakers thought that their respective states' income and economic development would be better off with such discrimination allowed, then those laws would not have happened to begin with. Agree?

Again, where is the compelling government interest?

I already answered that one.

No you didn't, the interest may be compelling to YOU, but hurt feelings do not a compelling interest make.

I already explained above in the post you quoted how it benefits the states. Economic development, attracting business, smooth business flow.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Tell us, boys, when are going to start living in the real world and accept PA laws and the need for them?

 

[Faun]

yes. You are right. Society really hasn't progressed at all (while rolling eyes)

It's progressed because we passed laws that forced it to...

Could you stay consistent? Thanks

So, if I think a person is too fat and I own a grocery store, I should be able to refuse to serve that person? No, you're too fat and have had enough Twinkies, IMO. Get out!

Absolutely, and they should have the right to never come back and tell their friends about you.

The problem is you're hitting a brad with a sledge hammer and taking out lots of other innocents along the way. Government has no legitimate power to force citizens to do business with each other

Nobody is forcing you to open a public accommodation service business. It's as simple as that. If you cannot abide by the laws in your state (which, yes, they can set business practice laws), then you don't open a business, or not that type of business.

It's not just opening a business, it's working in one. So my choices are to starve or succumb to your tyranny. You're not a liberal, you're an authoritarian leftist

Nope it's about fair business practice and what is best for the state's interests and individual civil rights to be able to go into a store, take a bus, and shop where they choose without fear of being discriminated against. Now, personal issues, such as shoplifters, people who cause a commotion, etc., are another matter entirely. Those people are harming your business. You can ban them for such actions.

When did making life fair become a function of government?

The day Thomas Jefferson put ink to the Declaration of Independence.

 

[ChrisL]

A LOT of gay people are actually business owners too. The laws apply to them too, regardless of how they might feel about straight people or religious people. The applies to everyone the same. You cannot discriminate based upon race, gender, religion, disability, sexual orientation. That pretty much covers everyone, I think.

 

[Iceweasel]

That applies to your personal life, yes. Not with your business practice.

Why? Who owns the business?

 

[ChrisL]

In your personal life, you can refuse to associate with whomever you wish. You can hate them. You can go online and rant about them. You can call them names, etc. Whatever floats your boat, but you cannot carry that over into your business practice. This was determined a LONG time ago by the SC.

 

[TNHarley]

yes. You are right. Society really hasn't progressed at all (while rolling eyes)

It's progressed because we passed laws that forced it to...

Could you stay consistent? Thanks

I am being consistent. The reason you feel these laws are no longer necessary is because,............................................................wait for it,.................................................they worked...

Those unconstitutional laws were never "needed". You are NOT consistent. First you say we haven't progressed then you said they did. I dont think you even know what you believe in

The laws are not unconstitutional, businesses are required to follow all kinds of regulations, and PA laws worked which is why you think they can be tossed now but they can't be because people like yourself still walk the earth. Got it now?

OK then. Would you accept my debate on the unconstitutionality of anti-discrimination laws? OF course, that would be

It's progressed because we passed laws that forced it to...

Could you stay consistent? Thanks

Absolutely, and they should have the right to never come back and tell their friends about you.

The problem is you're hitting a brad with a sledge hammer and taking out lots of other innocents along the way. Government has no legitimate power to force citizens to do business with each other

Nobody is forcing you to open a public accommodation service business. It's as simple as that. If you cannot abide by the laws in your state (which, yes, they can set business practice laws), then you don't open a business, or not that type of business.

It's not just opening a business, it's working in one. So my choices are to starve or succumb to your tyranny. You're not a liberal, you're an authoritarian leftist

Nope it's about fair business practice and what is best for the state's interests and individual civil rights to be able to go into a store, take a bus, and shop where they choose without fear of being discriminated against. Now, personal issues, such as shoplifters, people who cause a commotion, etc., are another matter entirely. Those people are harming your business. You can ban them for such actions.

When did making life fair become a function of government?

The day Thomas Jefferson put ink to the Declaration of Independence.

Ummm no it didn't. Do you know what that document was? lol