Sodom and Gomorrah

[Foxfyre]

Lol you're offended by me asking how a man can get an erection without being turned on?

I'm a man, the erections without being turned on end at puberty.

Being that you're a woman, I can assure you that you're more ignorant about erections than myself. It doesn't just arbitrarily pop up without being turned on.

Offended

I'm offended by a narrow minded piece of shit who has the temerity to talk about a topic he knows absolutely nothing about. And it's obvious you have no knowledge of it. People who spread wive's tales about sex offenders do nothing except set up more victims. Think of the victims who might be reading the crap you're spewing now who are going, "oh my god maybe I wasn't REALLY a victim" and who may not want to seek help now, you low life scum. Nobody with any sense would accept anything you write as fact or truth, but the victims of sex offenders are sadly unable to judge people in that way. So shut the fuck up.

It's quite telling, and leads me to believe you have a propensity to spout off about topics you really don't have knowledge of. Which should not be news to anyone.

Yes yes oh wise one, anyone who has a different opinion than you doesn't get it.

You worship a god who supposedly views a man as righteous despite him becoming around by and banging his 2 daughters, I can understand the emotional diatribe and the fake instances of being internet offended that you would go through because of that.

At least it is more charitable to allow for the interpretation and understanding of a culture that lived more than four thousand years ago than it is to judge them through 21st century eyes and NO understanding of the what the text is teaching.

Unfortunately too many that do that also translate our own short history in the same way and get that wrong too.

 

[Sky Dancer]

There are several major holes in the theory that Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed because of homosexuality.

First, The idea that "all" the men of Sodom were gay is ridiculous. For one thing, Lot's daughters were pledged to be married to men of Sodom. Second, if all the men were homosexuals, why did Lot offer his daughters to appease them? What good would it do to offer a gay man a woman to have sex with?

Finally, these people threatened Lot. If he didn't comply with their wishes they said they would do WORSE to him than to the two visitors. They were also trying to force the door down. They were obviously violent and they were trying to get at two unwilling guests.

Whenever you mix sex with violence against an unwilling person you do not have homosexuality, you have RAPE.

 

[FactFinder]

Ahhh, nothing like throwing a grenade into the room.

Okay, fundementalists and others like to cite this story about how God hates gay people, and he thinks that Sodomy is wrong. (Never explain what the Gomorrah People were doing so they got it, too.) But then you look at the actual text, and the story becomes a bit more confusing.

God and two Angels visit Abraham in Genesis 18. God announces he's going to wipe out the City. And then Abarham asks God to spare the city if there are 10 righteous men in it. So God says he is going to send the two Angels to see if they are really wicked.

Well, next chapter, Genesis 19, the two Angels meet up with Lot, Abraham's no-account nephew. They go to Lot's house because the streets are too dangerous, and here's where the stuff gets tricky.

19:5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.

Now, while "to know" is often used in other parts of the bible to indicate sex, it's not really clear that these guys actually wanted to gang rape the angels. But then Lot says the following.

19:8 Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.

Ooooookay. Don't rape my guest. Instead rape my two virgin daughters. Keep in mind, this is the "Good guy" that God had to go and save from this den of inequity. Keep that in mind the next time you pray for Aunt Millie's cancer to get better and it doesn't, where God's priorities are.

Well, I guess these guys didn't want any of the poonany, because they next threaten, 19:9 And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door.

Okay... Hmmmm. Well, the Angels blind everyone, Lot gets out of town. They tell him not to look back, but Mrs. Lot does and she gets turned into a condiment.

Then we get to the part they don't tell you in Sunday School. Lot and his two daughters are hiding in a cave. And then it occurs to the daughters that the only way they could have babies is to have drunken sex with their father.

Once again... this is the good guy that God had to save. Not those damned Sodomites, who were no doubt planning a killer Oscar Party.

Actually God's love extends to all. He hates sin. Why..because sin separates us from Him who wants to have relationship with us because He loves us all. So it doesn't matter what the sin is. All sin is sin. We have been informed at what is sin. So in that sense we have no excuses. So we can rebel against the Creator of the universe and what He has let us know that fits in with the design or we can rebel because we want to do what we want to do. He loves us so much that it is our choice. Free will. So be a fag if you want. You are free to do so. The God I know cries for you and hopes that you may get in harmony with the universe and the laws that make it work in love.

 

[MarcATL]

There are several major holes in the theory that Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed because of homosexuality.

First, The idea that "all" the men of Sodom were gay is ridiculous. For one thing, Lot's daughters were pledged to be married to men of Sodom. Second, if all the men were homosexuals, why did Lot offer his daughters to appease them? What good would it do to offer a gay man a woman to have sex with?

Finally, these people threatened Lot. If he didn't comply with their wishes they said they would do WORSE to him than to the two visitors. They were also trying to force the door down. They were obviously violent and they were trying to get at two unwilling guests.

Whenever you mix sex with violence against an unwilling person you do not have homosexuality, you have RAPE.

I'm not sure where or who stated that ALL were gay. The general Biblical understanding is that MANY were gay. Even if half or even a quarter were gay...that would constitute many and would have bee n considered a serious problem.

 

[JoeB131]

Actually God's love extends to all. He hates sin. Why..because sin separates us from Him who wants to have relationship with us because He loves us all. So it doesn't matter what the sin is. All sin is sin. We have been informed at what is sin. So in that sense we have no excuses. So we can rebel against the Creator of the universe and what He has let us know that fits in with the design or we can rebel because we want to do what we want to do. He loves us so much that it is our choice. Free will. So be a fag if you want. You are free to do so. The God I know cries for you and hopes that you may get in harmony with the universe and the laws that make it work in love.

Frankly, screw your God. He's evil, he's a hypocrite and he doesn't exist.

I can't take a God seriously who gets all hung up about homosexuality (I'm straight, btw) or eating shrimp (but I do love my seafood), but can't tell people straight up that genocide or slavery are wrong. that God would seem to have some pretty seriously messed up priorities.

 

[koshergrl]

There are several major holes in the theory that Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed because of homosexuality.

First, The idea that "all" the men of Sodom were gay is ridiculous. For one thing, Lot's daughters were pledged to be married to men of Sodom. Second, if all the men were homosexuals, why did Lot offer his daughters to appease them? What good would it do to offer a gay man a woman to have sex with?

Finally, these people threatened Lot. If he didn't comply with their wishes they said they would do WORSE to him than to the two visitors. They were also trying to force the door down. They were obviously violent and they were trying to get at two unwilling guests.

Whenever you mix sex with violence against an unwilling person you do not have homosexuality, you have RAPE.

Marriages were arranged and then, as now, many homosexual people got married to opposite sex partners because that is the way they had children and that is the way they strengthened their families.

 

[koshergrl]

Actually God's love extends to all. He hates sin. Why..because sin separates us from Him who wants to have relationship with us because He loves us all. So it doesn't matter what the sin is. All sin is sin. We have been informed at what is sin. So in that sense we have no excuses. So we can rebel against the Creator of the universe and what He has let us know that fits in with the design or we can rebel because we want to do what we want to do. He loves us so much that it is our choice. Free will. So be a fag if you want. You are free to do so. The God I know cries for you and hopes that you may get in harmony with the universe and the laws that make it work in love.

Frankly, screw your God. He's evil, he's a hypocrite and he doesn't exist.

I can't take a God seriously who gets all hung up about homosexuality (I'm straight, btw) or eating shrimp (but I do love my seafood), but can't tell people straight up that genocide or slavery are wrong. that God would seem to have some pretty seriously messed up priorities.

Yes, it would seem that way to a close minded, sinful human who can't see past the tip of his nose.

 

[JoeB131]

Actually God's love extends to all. He hates sin. Why..because sin separates us from Him who wants to have relationship with us because He loves us all. So it doesn't matter what the sin is. All sin is sin. We have been informed at what is sin. So in that sense we have no excuses. So we can rebel against the Creator of the universe and what He has let us know that fits in with the design or we can rebel because we want to do what we want to do. He loves us so much that it is our choice. Free will. So be a fag if you want. You are free to do so. The God I know cries for you and hopes that you may get in harmony with the universe and the laws that make it work in love.

Frankly, screw your God. He's evil, he's a hypocrite and he doesn't exist.

I can't take a God seriously who gets all hung up about homosexuality (I'm straight, btw) or eating shrimp (but I do love my seafood), but can't tell people straight up that genocide or slavery are wrong. that God would seem to have some pretty seriously messed up priorities.

Yes, it would seem that way to a close minded, sinful human who can't see past the tip of his nose.

It ain't about me, sweetheart.

I always notice that when I make a point that a funditard can't refute, they always want to make it about me, although they don't know my name, where I live or anything about me really.

How about a stab at answering my question. How can a just and moral God consider homosexuality (which most Americans don't consider that big of a deal anymore) a bigger moral issue than Slavery? How can he condemn eating shellfish as an abomination while inciting his followers to commit genocide?

Unless, of course, he's just the figment of bronze age savage imaginations.

 

[koshergrl]

Of course it's about you. You want to bash God and call all Christians stupid, be prepared when some of that slop splashes back on you.

And obviously you're narrow minded if you can't grasp the idea that it isn't ignorance that leads us to believe, it's the belief that God is perfect and brilliant, and so far above us that we cannot fathom his actions. You certainly aren't perfect, none of us is. So when you deign to pass judgment on God, of course it's going to be pointed out to you that you aren't exactly in a position to judge God, being a sinful human.

As we are all sinful humans.

Nothing special about you, sweetcheeks, in other words.

 

[JoeB131]

Of course it's about you. You want to bash God and call all Christians stupid, be prepared when some of that slop splashes back on you.

And obviously you're narrow minded if you can't grasp the idea that it isn't ignorance that leads us to believe, it's the belief that God is perfect and brilliant, and so far above us that we cannot fathom his actions. You certainly aren't perfect, none of us is. So when you deign to pass judgment on God, of course it's going to be pointed out to you that you aren't exactly in a position to judge God, being a sinful human.

As we are all sinful humans.

Nothing special about you, sweetcheeks, in other words.

Well, actually, I can pass judgment on a myth.. which is all "God" is.

You present your "God" as a perfect moral being. Okay. Fair enough. A perfect moral being wouldn't have written a bible that allows such serious wrongs to be considered moral.

The Bible endorses slavery. Doesn't call one human being owning another to be a sin. I don't know about "sin", but I think one person owning another is wrong, and I think most sensible people in 2011 would agree with that sentiment- even Christians. So why doesn't God come right out and say it's wrong?

The Bible says eating Shellfish is an "abomination". Well, sorry, nothing wrong with eating shellfish if it's prepared properly and you don't have an allergy to it. And most so-called Christians ignore this rule with the old, "But that's the OLD TESTAMENT" excuse.

Which brings us to HOmosexuality. Not my cup of tea, there's nothing about a man's hairy ass I find appealing, personally. But is it "sinful"? Can you come up with any reason why it is other than "God says so", without pointing out that you have the little bit of hypocrisy of ignoring the rules about slavery and Shrimp?

You are just cherry-picking rules you want to follow to justify your own biases.

I, on the other hand, follow a more sensible morality. When questioning the morality of an action I take, I ask, "Will anyone be harmed by this action". Anything from hurt feelings to physical bodily harm.

If my answer to that is "no", then it isn't sinful or wrong. If it's yes, then I either don't do it or I ask myself if the harm is justified (hitting in self defense, telling someone something the person really needs to hear, etc.)

Under that rule, slavery is wrong, because it harms another person, while eating Shellfish is right, as long as I don't have the allergy. And engaging in sex is not wrong as long as both partners consent and want it, and are willing to deal with the consequences.

It's morality based on treating each other and ourselves right, not on pleasing an imaginary sky friend based on what people 3000 years ago said.

 

[koshergrl]

Yes, Christ said that next to loving God the most important commandment was to love each other. As you have discovered, He was right.

 

[JoeB131]

Yes, Christ said that next to loving God the most important commandment was to love each other. As you have discovered, He was right.

And yet I was able to do it without subscribing to a lot of bullshit.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Yes, Christ said that next to loving God the most important commandment was to love each other. As you have discovered, He was right.

Interestingly enough, gender WAS NOT specified.

As far as what constitutes a "sin"? It's pretty specific about what is a sin, you can find the directions in either the 7 Noahide Commandments or the 10 Commandments.

Everything else? Pretty much open to do what you want, as long as you don't break the Commandments to do it. All the other "sins" are biases that have been handed down over they ages as people edited, cherry picked, and changed the Bible.

 

[FactFinder]

Which brings us to HOmosexuality. Not my cup of tea, there's nothing about a man's hairy ass I find appealing, personally. But is it "sinful"? Can you come up with any reason why it is other than "God says so", without pointing out that you have the little bit of hypocrisy of ignoring the rules about slavery and Shrimp?

Homosexuality is an obvious perversion of nature let alone God's will. Slavery was not condemned in the Old Testament but neither were a lot other things that God's grace looked past. Hell we have slavery today but it is just covered over by the "systems" in play. As for shrimp. Who says it doesn't cause some genetic mutations to cause people such as you to think the way you do?

Jesus came and said to do unto others as you would have them do unto you. I would say that covers any logical thought about slavery, heh?

 

[Dragon]

You certainly aren't perfect, none of us is. So when you deign to pass judgment on God, of course it's going to be pointed out to you that you aren't exactly in a position to judge God, being a sinful human.

The judgment isn't being made on God, but on people's claims about God. As in: person X claims that God is Y, did Z, and approved of Q. Is that credible? Is this likely to be what God is like?

Since the question being asked is whether that account of God has any validity, assuming that it does is begging the question. We do not refuse to pass judgment on the grounds that mere humans can't judge God, because whether or not that really IS God is precisely what is being questioned.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Which brings us to HOmosexuality. Not my cup of tea, there's nothing about a man's hairy ass I find appealing, personally. But is it "sinful"? Can you come up with any reason why it is other than "God says so", without pointing out that you have the little bit of hypocrisy of ignoring the rules about slavery and Shrimp?

Homosexuality is an obvious perversion of nature let alone God's will. Slavery was not condemned in the Old Testament but neither were a lot other things that God's grace looked past. Hell we have slavery today but it is just covered over by the "systems" in play. As for shrimp. Who says it doesn't cause some genetic mutations to cause people such as you to think the way you do?

Jesus came and said to do unto others as you would have them do unto you. I would say that covers any logical thought about slavery, heh?

Perversion of nature? Really?

The only other bird in which this practice has been found is the marsh harrier (Circus aeruginosus). In one exceptional population in midwestern France, 40 percent of the males of this bird of prey disguise themselves in female plumage.

To study the marsh harriers there, ornithologists including Vincent Bretagnolle, directorof the Center for Biological Studies of Chizé, France, created decoys painted to closely resemble the females, typical males, and female-like males. Females are mostly brown with ocher-brown eyes, while typical males are mostly gray with yellow-white eyes, and female-like males are mostly brown with yellow-white eyes. Males are also approximately 30 percent smaller and lighter than females.

Why Some Birds of Prey Become Transvestites | Marsh Harriers & Raptors | Sexual Mimicry & Animal Mating | LiveScience

Not only that, but there are MANY other examples of homosexuality in the animal kingdom.

So.......if it occurs naturally, how can it be a "perversion"?

Apparently, mankind is the only species that will ostracize it's own for something that occurs naturally.

 

[JoeB131]

Which brings us to HOmosexuality. Not my cup of tea, there's nothing about a man's hairy ass I find appealing, personally. But is it "sinful"? Can you come up with any reason why it is other than "God says so", without pointing out that you have the little bit of hypocrisy of ignoring the rules about slavery and Shrimp?

Homosexuality is an obvious perversion of nature let alone God's will. Slavery was not condemned in the Old Testament but neither were a lot other things that God's grace looked past. Hell we have slavery today but it is just covered over by the "systems" in play. As for shrimp. Who says it doesn't cause some genetic mutations to cause people such as you to think the way you do?

I'm not sure if I should laugh or cry at this.

Okay, to start with, homosexuality exists in the animal kingdom, so it is not against nature. Some scientists have even theorized that it appears in populations where the population has has exceeded limits. They did an expirament in the 1950s with mice in an enclosure, gave them infinite amounts of food and let them reproduce until they were crowding each other out. The mice ended up turning gay. No word on whether or not they start throwing killer Oscar Parties, though.

On slavery. No, the bible just doesn't "fai to condemn", it frequently gives rules on how to beat your slaves, how to punish your slaves and even how to extend their period of servitude. The bible is a "Slavery for Dummies" manual. Still in use in 1865 Confederate States.

And serious, Shrimp causes genetic mutations that make me tolerant of gays and contemptuous of religion. Obviously, you don't know how genetics work, but we should probably be adding shellfish to the school menus across the nation.

Jesus came and said to do unto others as you would have them do unto you. I would say that covers any logical thought about slavery, heh?

Except the same New Testament then turned around and told slaves to happily serve their masters. So, no, it didn't.

 

[koshergrl]

Of course it's about you. You want to bash God and call all Christians stupid, be prepared when some of that slop splashes back on you.

And obviously you're narrow minded if you can't grasp the idea that it isn't ignorance that leads us to believe, it's the belief that God is perfect and brilliant, and so far above us that we cannot fathom his actions. You certainly aren't perfect, none of us is. So when you deign to pass judgment on God, of course it's going to be pointed out to you that you aren't exactly in a position to judge God, being a sinful human.

As we are all sinful humans.

Nothing special about you, sweetcheeks, in other words.

Well, actually, I can pass judgment on a myth.. which is all "God" is.

You present your "God" as a perfect moral being. Okay. Fair enough. A perfect moral being wouldn't have written a bible that allows such serious wrongs to be considered moral.

The Bible endorses slavery. Doesn't call one human being owning another to be a sin. I don't know about "sin", but I think one person owning another is wrong, and I think most sensible people in 2011 would agree with that sentiment- even Christians. So why doesn't God come right out and say it's wrong?

The Bible says eating Shellfish is an "abomination". Well, sorry, nothing wrong with eating shellfish if it's prepared properly and you don't have an allergy to it. And most so-called Christians ignore this rule with the old, "But that's the OLD TESTAMENT" excuse.

Which brings us to HOmosexuality. Not my cup of tea, there's nothing about a man's hairy ass I find appealing, personally. But is it "sinful"? Can you come up with any reason why it is other than "God says so", without pointing out that you have the little bit of hypocrisy of ignoring the rules about slavery and Shrimp?

You are just cherry-picking rules you want to follow to justify your own biases.

I, on the other hand, follow a more sensible morality. When questioning the morality of an action I take, I ask, "Will anyone be harmed by this action". Anything from hurt feelings to physical bodily harm.

If my answer to that is "no", then it isn't sinful or wrong. If it's yes, then I either don't do it or I ask myself if the harm is justified (hitting in self defense, telling someone something the person really needs to hear, etc.)

Under that rule, slavery is wrong, because it harms another person, while eating Shellfish is right, as long as I don't have the allergy. And engaging in sex is not wrong as long as both partners consent and want it, and are willing to deal with the consequences.

It's morality based on treating each other and ourselves right, not on pleasing an imaginary sky friend based on what people 3000 years ago said.

Obviously you're obsessed over a couple of passages in the bible that you neither understand nor have any context for. Ignorance is not a virtue.

And you go right ahead and pass judgment based on your ignorance. Just don't fool yourself that you appear more intelligent than those you feel compelled to ridicule. You don't.

 

[Dragon]

Obviously you're obsessed over a couple of passages in the bible that you neither understand nor have any context for. Ignorance is not a virtue.

And you go right ahead and pass judgment based on your ignorance. Just don't fool yourself that you appear more intelligent than those you feel compelled to ridicule. You don't.

When you cannot logically answer an argument, do you think that descending into nasty-bitch mode does you any credit? Do your really think this paints you in a good light?

 

[MarcATL]

Yes, Christ said that next to loving God the most important commandment was to love each other. As you have discovered, He was right.

Are you referring to Matthew 22:37-40?

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Source: Matthew 22 KJV - And Jesus answered and spake unto them - Bible Gateway

If so, just wanted to make a note/reminder that verse 40 is where He really encapsulates the meaning of His statements.

The Law aka The Ten Commandments, hang upon those 2 great commandments. The first 4 Commandments of the Law refers to loving God, the remaining 6 Commandments of the Law refers to loving your neighbor.

Another way of saying it is the first 4 refers to how we should treat and/or relate to God, the latter 6 refers to how we should treat and/or relate to others.

That is, and has been your understanding...right?