Sodom and Gomorrah

[koshergrl]

You really should take it up with god, instead of expecting those of us who do have faith to give up our beliefs based upon your own antipathy...

 

[Newby]

If I had beliefs that led me to think non-believers were going to hell I would want everyone to believe as I did, seems like common human decency to me.

Seems we won't get anywhere with this issue. I think drunkenly banging your daughters is immoral in all cases, others don't, that pretty much ends the discussion.

I haven't seen anyone else on here say that drunkenly banging your daughters is moral either, nor was anyone trying to imply that. But, don't let that keep you from getting into the ring with your carefully constructed strawman. Wouldn't surprise me if he beats your ass though.

Well I'm glad you disagree with your god about the righteousness of this man.

Well, that makes two strawmen in the ring with you now, it's going to be a smackdown!!

 

[Dr.Drock]

You really should take it up with god, instead of expecting those of us who do have faith to give up our beliefs based upon your own antipathy...

Never have, and never would say that you shouldn't believe in your god.

 

[Againsheila]

Sure is disgusting how people downplay a man banging his 2 daughters, just shrug their shoulders and give him a pass by saying he was drunk.



Now I don't think people actually think this in the real world, if they knew a guy who banged his daughters after a night of drinking they'd think he was a sick fuck and rightfully so.



But since the Bible says a man who did this was righteous, they "have" to agree with it and get on message boards making it sound like a dad banging his daughters is no big whoop.

Don't you just love the double standard? A man gets a girl drunk and rapes her, he goes to jail, Lot's daughters get him drunk and rapes him and he's a pervert.....

 

[koshergrl]

You really should take it up with god, instead of expecting those of us who do have faith to give up our beliefs based upon your own antipathy...

Never have, and never would say that you shouldn't believe in your god.

Then one wonders why you act on the compulsion to bash him to believers. Over and over and over again.

 

[Dr.Drock]

Sure is disgusting how people downplay a man banging his 2 daughters, just shrug their shoulders and give him a pass by saying he was drunk.



Now I don't think people actually think this in the real world, if they knew a guy who banged his daughters after a night of drinking they'd think he was a sick fuck and rightfully so.



But since the Bible says a man who did this was righteous, they "have" to agree with it and get on message boards making it sound like a dad banging his daughters is no big whoop.

Don't you just love the double standard? A man gets a girl drunk and rapes her, he goes to jail, Lot's daughters get him drunk and rapes him and he's a pervert.....

I'll have to ask, AGAIN, how can a woman or women FORCE a man to get an erection thousands of years ago without pills like Viagra?

 

[Dr.Drock]

You really should take it up with god, instead of expecting those of us who do have faith to give up our beliefs based upon your own antipathy...

Never have, and never would say that you shouldn't believe in your god.

Then one wonders why you act on the compulsion to bash him to believers. Over and over and over again.

Any person or being who finds a man who bangs his daughters to be righteous deserves my condemnation.

However thankfully I don't believe he exists, this is all a hypothetical discussion.

And you don't believe evolution exists, and you bash it til you have arthritis, sounds like hypocrisy to me.

 

[koshergrl]

Please stop talking about stuff you're ignorant of.

Molesters are able to stimulate underage victims, it is one of the ways they are able to victimize them and mess with their heads...the victims feel guilt because they are aroused.

It doesn't mean a crime hasn't taken place.

Now just shut up about the topic, you're ignorant of it, and offensive.

 

[Dr.Drock]

Please stop talking about stuff you're ignorant of.

Molesters are able to stimulate underage victims, it is one of the ways they are able to victimize them and mess with their heads...the victims feel guilt because they are aroused.

It doesn't mean a crime hasn't taken place.

Now just shut up about the topic, you're ignorant of it, and offensive.

Lol you're offended by me asking how a man can get an erection without being turned on?

I'm a man, the erections without being turned on end at puberty.

Being that you're a woman, I can assure you that you're more ignorant about erections than myself. It doesn't just arbitrarily pop up without being turned on.

Offended

 

[Douger]

I just want to know one detail. Did the daughters go in separately or was one face sitting while the other was riding cowgirl ?

 

[Againsheila]

Sure is disgusting how people downplay a man banging his 2 daughters, just shrug their shoulders and give him a pass by saying he was drunk.



Now I don't think people actually think this in the real world, if they knew a guy who banged his daughters after a night of drinking they'd think he was a sick fuck and rightfully so.



But since the Bible says a man who did this was righteous, they "have" to agree with it and get on message boards making it sound like a dad banging his daughters is no big whoop.

Don't you just love the double standard? A man gets a girl drunk and rapes her, he goes to jail, Lot's daughters get him drunk and rapes him and he's a pervert.....

I'll have to ask, AGAIN, how can a woman or women FORCE a man to get an erection thousands of years ago without pills like Viagra?

So you don't believe men can be raped, is that it?

Trust me, I could get you to have an erection if I wanted and I'm an ugly old bat.

 

[Dr.Drock]

Don't you just love the double standard? A man gets a girl drunk and rapes her, he goes to jail, Lot's daughters get him drunk and rapes him and he's a pervert.....

I'll have to ask, AGAIN, how can a woman or women FORCE a man to get an erection thousands of years ago without pills like Viagra?

So you don't believe men can be raped, is that it?

Trust me, I could get you to have an erection if I wanted and I'm an ugly old bat.

Than this thread will be the first time I've ever heard of such a thing.

But I don't believe that a man was "forced" to get drunk, then "forced" to achieve an erection, then "forced" to have sex until he finished, and then all that happened all over again.

Is that what you believe the story is telling?

 

[ABikerSailor]

Sure is disgusting how people downplay a man banging his 2 daughters, just shrug their shoulders and give him a pass by saying he was drunk.



Now I don't think people actually think this in the real world, if they knew a guy who banged his daughters after a night of drinking they'd think he was a sick fuck and rightfully so.



But since the Bible says a man who did this was righteous, they "have" to agree with it and get on message boards making it sound like a dad banging his daughters is no big whoop.

Don't you just love the double standard? A man gets a girl drunk and rapes her, he goes to jail, Lot's daughters get him drunk and rapes him and he's a pervert.....

I'll have to ask, AGAIN, how can a woman or women FORCE a man to get an erection thousands of years ago without pills like Viagra?

Listen Dr. Schlock, just because YOU are a limp dick idiot without Viagara doesn't mean that the rest of the male population is.

And......fwiw........there are certain foods (watermelon pickles for one) that WILL help you get it hard like Viagara.

BTW.................one thing you should remember.............the reason the angels were sent to get Lot out of Sodom and Gomorrah is because his brother Abraham (a definite righteous man) asked God if He would spare the city, because his brother Lot lived there.

 

[Dr.Drock]

Don't you just love the double standard? A man gets a girl drunk and rapes her, he goes to jail, Lot's daughters get him drunk and rapes him and he's a pervert.....

I'll have to ask, AGAIN, how can a woman or women FORCE a man to get an erection thousands of years ago without pills like Viagra?

Listen Dr. Schlock, just because YOU are a limp dick idiot without Viagara doesn't mean that the rest of the male population is.

And......fwiw........there are certain foods (watermelon pickles for one) that WILL help you get it hard like Viagara.

BTW.................one thing you should remember.............the reason the angels were sent to get Lot out of Sodom and Gomorrah is because his brother Abraham (a definite righteous man) asked God if He would spare the city, because his brother Lot lived there.

Cute insult attempt but yes I am a limp dick when it comes to my family. I would think any rational, sane human would be.

If your new theory is the daughters were educated on what foods bring erections, set those out for him to eat, then got him drunk, then raped him, then did it all over again, than this story is getting crazier and crazier with each new attempt at rationalization.

 

[LilOlLady]

Destruction of S and G were about more the homosexuality, but all types of immoratlities. Fornacaton, adulatry and homosexuality. You you think all those destroyed were gay? Except whats his name and his family?

 

[Political Junky]

Here ya go.........it's from a scholar site called Sacred Texts Archive.........

And no, the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah wasn't being gay, it was something else.......

The Sin of Sodom
Then there is the story of the destruction of the city of Sodom, (Genesis 18:16-19:29). Sodom has given its name to the now somewhat quaint-sounding term 'Sodomy', which originally meant a specific male homosexual sex act. Eventually it was expanded to mean any form of sexual expression which happened to be illegal, including things that married heterosexual couples do every day.

However, a close reading reveals the name to be a bit of a misnomer. To start off, Sodom is described simply as a 'wicked' place. Lot, Abraham's nephew, goes to live there to see if even one righteous person can be found there. The sexual theme starts when two disguised angels visit Lot. A mob, described as consisting of the men of the city, 'both young and old', attacks Lot's house and demands that Lot allow them to 'know' (in the language of the KJV) the two men. To 'know' is, of course, the famous KJV circumlocution for having sexual intercourse.

The next passage bears closer examination. Lot (Gen 19:8) asks the mob to 'do' his two virgin daughters instead, but not the two guests, 'for ... they came under the shadow of my roof.' The rest of the story is well-known: divine wrath ensues, the mob is blinded, the cities of the plain are destroyed by fire and brimstone while Lot and his family flee, Lot's wife is turned to a pillar of salt because she looks back, and only Lot and his daughters escape. In an often ignored coda to this story, Lot's daughters have incest with him by getting him intoxicated, (Gen 19:31), presumably to repopulate the country; a similar motif is found in the story of Noah. As in other Biblical narratives, even the heroes end up committing horrendous sins, driven by circumstances. But many ignore the entire context of the story in the rush to justify their own bigotry.

The sin of the city of Sodom was the originally considered to be the violation of the rights of Lot's guests. Defining the 'sin of Sodom' to be male homosexuality was a later interpretation, which was made by medieval Jewish and Christian writers, as a reaction to Pagan acceptance of homosexuality. Near Eastern hospitality, to this day, implies a responsibility to protect guests under one's roof. The fact that Lot was ready to make a huge sacrifice by offering up his virgin daughters to the mob instead of his guests underlines this.

There is abundant Haggadah, ancient Jewish folklore, which tells of the cruelty of Sodom to strangers, and their mistreatment of the poor and homeless. Among other stories, travelers are given gold but not food; when they starve to death, everything is stolen including the gold and the clothes off their backs, and their bodies are left to rot. One of Lot's unfortunate daughters is burned to death for the crime of giving a starving man food. Another woman who assists a poor man is smeared with honey and left to be stung to death by bees. Some of these stories are suffused with dark comedic twists. A poor man is assaulted and robbed. Eliezar, a servant of Abraham, is hit on the head when he intervenes. A judge rules that he must pay his assailant for medical treatment! (Bleeding was considered a surgical procedure). Eliezar then hits the judge on the head, drawing blood, and tells the judge to pay his fine. See Ginzburg's Legends of the Jews and Polano's The Talmud: Selections, for many more stories along the same lines. After reading these, I guarantee you'll be rooting for the Lord to rain down the brimstone on the cities of the plain...

There are also numerous Biblical passages warning about mistreating strangers, (with the story of Lot being implied), for instance this one in the NT: "Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares." [Heb. 13:2]

Between the original concept of a violation of the law of hospitality and the medieval focus on a particular sexual act, there is an intermediate stage where Sodom was criticized for other reasons entirely. Where Sodom is mentioned in later books of the Tanach and in the New Testament, it is used as an example of a city which was corrupted by luxury, lacking in values such as charity and humility. Nowhere is this made clearer than in Ezekiel 16:48-50, where Ezekiel, speaking for 'the Lord God', enumerates the sins of Sodom: "Saith the Lord GOD...Behold, this was the iniquity of ... Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness ... neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good".

Note that in this context 'abomination' means human sacrifice and idol worship, not shared tax breaks for long-term same-sex couples, or sexual practices you can see on cable after 10 o'clock. Furthermore, 'abomination' is at the end of the laundry list. The primary sin of Sodom, by this account, was that their society was materialistic, greedy and uncharitable. Social and economic justice is a thread that runs through the Hebrew Bible and the New Testament alike, and it is not difficult to extrapolate this to modern struggles for equality, such as those of LGBT people. When governmental and religious institutions and their leaders perpetuate oppression, it would not be farfetched to say that they are committing the actual sin of Sodom.

Internet Sacred Text Archive Home

The main problem with those 2 cities was their treatment of others who weren't of their city. Remember, hospitality was something REALLY big in the OT, because without proper treatment of travelers, how would the human race have expanded?

Exactly right. The sin was inhospitality.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Destruction of S and G were about more the homosexuality, but all types of immoratlities. Fornacaton, adulatry and homosexuality. You you think all those destroyed were gay? Except whats his name and his family?

Yo........twatlips.........are you saying that Lot and his family were gay?

 

[koshergrl]

Please stop talking about stuff you're ignorant of.

Molesters are able to stimulate underage victims, it is one of the ways they are able to victimize them and mess with their heads...the victims feel guilt because they are aroused.

It doesn't mean a crime hasn't taken place.

Now just shut up about the topic, you're ignorant of it, and offensive.

Lol you're offended by me asking how a man can get an erection without being turned on?

I'm a man, the erections without being turned on end at puberty.

Being that you're a woman, I can assure you that you're more ignorant about erections than myself. It doesn't just arbitrarily pop up without being turned on.

Offended

I'm offended by a narrow minded piece of shit who has the temerity to talk about a topic he knows absolutely nothing about. And it's obvious you have no knowledge of it. People who spread wive's tales about sex offenders do nothing except set up more victims. Think of the victims who might be reading the crap you're spewing now who are going, "oh my god maybe I wasn't REALLY a victim" and who may not want to seek help now, you low life scum. Nobody with any sense would accept anything you write as fact or truth, but the victims of sex offenders are sadly unable to judge people in that way. So shut the fuck up.

It's quite telling, and leads me to believe you have a propensity to spout off about topics you really don't have knowledge of. Which should not be news to anyone.

 

[koshergrl]

Here ya go.........it's from a scholar site called Sacred Texts Archive.........

And no, the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah wasn't being gay, it was something else.......

The Sin of Sodom
Then there is the story of the destruction of the city of Sodom, (Genesis 18:16-19:29). Sodom has given its name to the now somewhat quaint-sounding term 'Sodomy', which originally meant a specific male homosexual sex act. Eventually it was expanded to mean any form of sexual expression which happened to be illegal, including things that married heterosexual couples do every day.

However, a close reading reveals the name to be a bit of a misnomer. To start off, Sodom is described simply as a 'wicked' place. Lot, Abraham's nephew, goes to live there to see if even one righteous person can be found there. The sexual theme starts when two disguised angels visit Lot. A mob, described as consisting of the men of the city, 'both young and old', attacks Lot's house and demands that Lot allow them to 'know' (in the language of the KJV) the two men. To 'know' is, of course, the famous KJV circumlocution for having sexual intercourse.

The next passage bears closer examination. Lot (Gen 19:8) asks the mob to 'do' his two virgin daughters instead, but not the two guests, 'for ... they came under the shadow of my roof.' The rest of the story is well-known: divine wrath ensues, the mob is blinded, the cities of the plain are destroyed by fire and brimstone while Lot and his family flee, Lot's wife is turned to a pillar of salt because she looks back, and only Lot and his daughters escape. In an often ignored coda to this story, Lot's daughters have incest with him by getting him intoxicated, (Gen 19:31), presumably to repopulate the country; a similar motif is found in the story of Noah. As in other Biblical narratives, even the heroes end up committing horrendous sins, driven by circumstances. But many ignore the entire context of the story in the rush to justify their own bigotry.

The sin of the city of Sodom was the originally considered to be the violation of the rights of Lot's guests. Defining the 'sin of Sodom' to be male homosexuality was a later interpretation, which was made by medieval Jewish and Christian writers, as a reaction to Pagan acceptance of homosexuality. Near Eastern hospitality, to this day, implies a responsibility to protect guests under one's roof. The fact that Lot was ready to make a huge sacrifice by offering up his virgin daughters to the mob instead of his guests underlines this.

There is abundant Haggadah, ancient Jewish folklore, which tells of the cruelty of Sodom to strangers, and their mistreatment of the poor and homeless. Among other stories, travelers are given gold but not food; when they starve to death, everything is stolen including the gold and the clothes off their backs, and their bodies are left to rot. One of Lot's unfortunate daughters is burned to death for the crime of giving a starving man food. Another woman who assists a poor man is smeared with honey and left to be stung to death by bees. Some of these stories are suffused with dark comedic twists. A poor man is assaulted and robbed. Eliezar, a servant of Abraham, is hit on the head when he intervenes. A judge rules that he must pay his assailant for medical treatment! (Bleeding was considered a surgical procedure). Eliezar then hits the judge on the head, drawing blood, and tells the judge to pay his fine. See Ginzburg's Legends of the Jews and Polano's The Talmud: Selections, for many more stories along the same lines. After reading these, I guarantee you'll be rooting for the Lord to rain down the brimstone on the cities of the plain...

There are also numerous Biblical passages warning about mistreating strangers, (with the story of Lot being implied), for instance this one in the NT: "Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares." [Heb. 13:2]

Between the original concept of a violation of the law of hospitality and the medieval focus on a particular sexual act, there is an intermediate stage where Sodom was criticized for other reasons entirely. Where Sodom is mentioned in later books of the Tanach and in the New Testament, it is used as an example of a city which was corrupted by luxury, lacking in values such as charity and humility. Nowhere is this made clearer than in Ezekiel 16:48-50, where Ezekiel, speaking for 'the Lord God', enumerates the sins of Sodom: "Saith the Lord GOD...Behold, this was the iniquity of ... Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness ... neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good".

Note that in this context 'abomination' means human sacrifice and idol worship, not shared tax breaks for long-term same-sex couples, or sexual practices you can see on cable after 10 o'clock. Furthermore, 'abomination' is at the end of the laundry list. The primary sin of Sodom, by this account, was that their society was materialistic, greedy and uncharitable. Social and economic justice is a thread that runs through the Hebrew Bible and the New Testament alike, and it is not difficult to extrapolate this to modern struggles for equality, such as those of LGBT people. When governmental and religious institutions and their leaders perpetuate oppression, it would not be farfetched to say that they are committing the actual sin of Sodom.

Internet Sacred Text Archive Home

The main problem with those 2 cities was their treatment of others who weren't of their city. Remember, hospitality was something REALLY big in the OT, because without proper treatment of travelers, how would the human race have expanded?

Exactly right. The sin was inhospitality.

And it's still a custom that is adhered to in the middle east...hence our problem rooting out the taliban. Once those assholes obtain the hospitality of the tribal people, those people will die before they turn them in. It's not because they agree with them or like them; it's because hospitality is sacred. That custom has saved some of our own as well.

 

[Dr.Drock]

Please stop talking about stuff you're ignorant of.

Molesters are able to stimulate underage victims, it is one of the ways they are able to victimize them and mess with their heads...the victims feel guilt because they are aroused.

It doesn't mean a crime hasn't taken place.

Now just shut up about the topic, you're ignorant of it, and offensive.

Lol you're offended by me asking how a man can get an erection without being turned on?

I'm a man, the erections without being turned on end at puberty.

Being that you're a woman, I can assure you that you're more ignorant about erections than myself. It doesn't just arbitrarily pop up without being turned on.

Offended

I'm offended by a narrow minded piece of shit who has the temerity to talk about a topic he knows absolutely nothing about. And it's obvious you have no knowledge of it. People who spread wive's tales about sex offenders do nothing except set up more victims. Think of the victims who might be reading the crap you're spewing now who are going, "oh my god maybe I wasn't REALLY a victim" and who may not want to seek help now, you low life scum. Nobody with any sense would accept anything you write as fact or truth, but the victims of sex offenders are sadly unable to judge people in that way. So shut the fuck up.

It's quite telling, and leads me to believe you have a propensity to spout off about topics you really don't have knowledge of. Which should not be news to anyone.

Yes yes oh wise one, anyone who has a different opinion than you doesn't get it.

You worship a god who supposedly views a man as righteous despite him becoming aroused by and banging his 2 daughters, I can understand the emotional diatribe and the fake instances of being internet offended that you would go through because of that.