Sodom and Gomorrah

Discussion in 'Religion and Ethics' started by JoeB131, Nov 5, 2011.

  1. JoeB131
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    JoeB131 Diamond Member

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    Ahhh, nothing like throwing a grenade into the room.

    Okay, fundementalists and others like to cite this story about how God hates gay people, and he thinks that Sodomy is wrong. (Never explain what the Gomorrah People were doing so they got it, too.) But then you look at the actual text, and the story becomes a bit more confusing.

    God and two Angels visit Abraham in Genesis 18. God announces he's going to wipe out the City. And then Abarham asks God to spare the city if there are 10 righteous men in it. So God says he is going to send the two Angels to see if they are really wicked.

    Well, next chapter, Genesis 19, the two Angels meet up with Lot, Abraham's no-account nephew. They go to Lot's house because the streets are too dangerous, and here's where the stuff gets tricky.

    19:5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.

    Now, while "to know" is often used in other parts of the bible to indicate sex, it's not really clear that these guys actually wanted to gang rape the angels. But then Lot says the following.

    19:8 Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.

    Ooooookay. Don't rape my guest. Instead rape my two virgin daughters. Keep in mind, this is the "Good guy" that God had to go and save from this den of inequity. Keep that in mind the next time you pray for Aunt Millie's cancer to get better and it doesn't, where God's priorities are.

    Well, I guess these guys didn't want any of the poonany, because they next threaten, 19:9 And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door.

    Okay... Hmmmm. Well, the Angels blind everyone, Lot gets out of town. They tell him not to look back, but Mrs. Lot does and she gets turned into a condiment.

    Then we get to the part they don't tell you in Sunday School. Lot and his two daughters are hiding in a cave. And then it occurs to the daughters that the only way they could have babies is to have drunken sex with their father.

    Once again... this is the good guy that God had to save. Not those damned Sodomites, who were no doubt planning a killer Oscar Party.
     
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  2. Mr. H.
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    Mr. H. Diamond Member

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    I just about got kicked out of a college class when the Prof. was discussing S&G.
    I asked "weren't they two of the Marx Brothers?"
     
  3. Granny
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    SF and LA??
     
  4. AmericanFirst
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    AmericanFirst Gold Member

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    I love it when people try to disprove God and use the Bible even when they have no clue what the Bible says.
     
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  5. Marie888
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    Marie888 † † †

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    Yep, they have no understanding of many things as they do not yet have His Spirit...yet. Never know when! :)



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  6. Dragon
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    I notice that those who say "they don't understand this" have offered no interpretations of the passage to explain how it should be understood. Marie offered a completely different and unrelated passage of scripture, and AmericanFirst offered nothing.

    Here is the OP's interpretation in a nutshell:

    1) Lot offered to let a crowd gang-rape his virgin daughters rather than his guests.

    2) Lot, in a drunken daze, later had incestuous sex with those same daughters, apparently on their instigation so they could get pregnant.

    3) Lot was described as a "righteous" man, which, given the above, calls into question just what standard of "righteousness" is being advocated.

    Now: just exactly how and why is that interpretation wrong? No platitudes, no unsupported statements, no reference to "the Holy Spirit" -- explain why and how the OP got it wrong. If you can't, you're just dodging.
     
  7. Marie888
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    Marie888 † † †

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    What good does it do to try to explain it to you?

    Why do I ask that?.. Because here is my understanding from your posts; what you say.

    1. Either you've already made up your mind and you've denied Christ, or even if I tried to get into it deeper, you still wouldn't accept Him (His Word) or understand it. (That is why I posted the verses above which are totally relevant)

    This doesn't mean I'm "worldly" smarter than you at all; probably the opposite, lol. I'm NOT into an intellectual competition here. In other words, I don't think I know better or more than you. But to understand the things of God, we need His Spirit. Even then, there are some things revealed to some people, and some people not. Everyone in the church is "one body". All different parts, but one body and each part of the body is needed and has it's uses.

    Until you KNOW the Lord (ie., have His Holy Spirit) you cannot possibly understand. Knowing Him is when we start to learn from Him.

    How can we learn from any teacher if one, we don't believe them...two, we just kick against them?

    Know what I mean?


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  8. Marie888
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    Marie888 † † †

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    Or maybe I could put it another way:

    When you want to learn something that someone else has written; who do you go to to understand?

    The One Who Wrote it. Ask Him.



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  9. Dragon
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    I have a mind and a good understanding of the English language and logical arguments.

    It's really quite simple. Offer an interpretation of that passage of Genesis that doesn't make it look as if a barbarous standard of morality is being advocated, one in which a man may be "righteous" who first offers his virgin daughters for gang-rape to a gang of thugs, and second impregnates those same daughters himself while intoxicated. I don't know about you, but I don't consider either of those actions particularly "righteous."

    It should not be hard to explain this, if there IS an explanation. Be my guest.

    I don't dispute this. What I dispute is that the Bible, or at least this passage of it, is among "the things of God." And it is precisely the Spirit, in part, which leads me to that conclusion.
     
  10. Marie888
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    Before we even get into a theological discussion on the OP verses, we'd have to agree that His Word (The Bible) is of God.

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