Socialistic Nations = Happiest People

[Agnapostate]

Oh no! Another catfight?

 

[PoliticalChic]

And you find people who say that poor people are the happiest people...

Don't mean I want to strive to be poor or be in a country that strives towards socialism

Do you have a response that results from actually reading the article in question, or are meaningless platitudes all we can expect from you?

We hear, repeatedly, how socialism = bad. It's practically modern American dogma. But, it appears to me that those countries simultaneously have some of the HIGHEST productivity levels AND the highest happiness levels. So, the standard response that socialism kills personal motivation appears to be false.

Maybe, people can be MORE productive when they aren't walking around with a toothache or in chronic pain because they can't afford health or dental care? It's a thought I am having more often these days, spending most of my time working with poor people.

That is simply not the case. You make assumptions based on a faulty belief that a socialized medicine would provide good healthcare to eveyone. Not true as you can see below.

A grandmother performed her own tooth extractions in despair after being turned away by 12 dentists.

Elizabeth Green, 76, was in agony with two front teeth and after a fruitless search for an NHS practitioner, resorted to DIY.
Her case is the latest of many to highlight the dwindling availability of NHS dental treatment.

Days of agony: Elizabeth Green resorted to pulling her own teeth out after failing to find an NHS dentist
Mrs Green, a former chef, said it was made plain to her that if she could pay for treatment she would have been welcomed.
"I feel so angry," she said. "I've worked all my life and paid taxes and then when I need help I can't get it."
Last night she explained how she took matters into her own hands.
"Two of my front teeth started getting loose and became more and more painful.
"My gum became very sore so I contacted a dentist that I had been to in the past, but they said they were not taking on new patients.
"The problem was getting worse so I started ringing round the dentists in the Yellow Pages.
"I phoned about 12 but they all said they same thing - 'Sorry, we are not taking on any new NHS patients'.
"I also phoned a dental helpline but they couldn't offer a solution either. The teeth got more and more painful and one evening I couldn't take it any longer so I moved the teeth back and forwards and twisted them and eventually they came out."

Pensioner, 76, forced to pull out own teeth after 12 NHS dentists refuse to treat her | Mail Online

 

[Agnapostate]

That is simply not the case. You make assumptions based on a faulty belief that a socialized medicine would provide good healthcare to eveyone. Not true as you can see below.

You realize that that's an anecdotal example that's not a sufficient substitute for legitimate statistical data, right? That said, I'll forgive you if you can prove your claim that your avatar is a picture of you.

 

[Dr Grump]

[
That is simply not the case. You make assumptions based on a faulty belief that a socialized medicine would provide good healthcare to eveyone. Not true as you can see below.

And for every example of 'socialised' medicine failing, I give you an example of 'capitalised' medicine failing. I'm sure there is a point in there somewhere...

 

[editec]

chris has stated in the past that he does NOT buy insurance because he doesn't believe in it, not because he can't afford it.
The comment was directed at Chris, no one else.

Chris pays for insurance if he works.

He pays about 6% of his income into medicade.

Ergo he is NOT freeloading, he is merely an as-yet unenrolled participant in the medicade system.

which is something you and I will have to pay for if he needs an operation.

Yes, and it is something he has ALREADY been paying for since he pays taxes DIRECTLY to that government HC insurance system.

Like I said he's paying 6% of his income OFF THE TOP, for his insurance even though he has yet to enroll in it.

 

[editec]

Give me some examples of developed, prosperous democratic nations that follow the tenets of your rightwing republican conservative ideology.

No problem, I can do that.

Here's a nation which allowed the fruits of anachro-capitalism to achive their final conclusive state of being.

It's that libertopian place marked in yellow.

A place where a man can be free and unencumbered by those annoying nanny-state socialists

 

[Old Rocks]

Your picture did not come through. I assume, from the descripition that it is Somalia.

 

[LaLinda75]

You can always move to Cuba or Venezuela or any number of practicing socialistic countries. Problem solved.

 

[PoliticalChic]

That is simply not the case. You make assumptions based on a faulty belief that a socialized medicine would provide good healthcare to eveyone. Not true as you can see below.

You realize that that's an anecdotal example that's not a sufficient substitute for legitimate statistical data, right? That said, I'll forgive you if you can prove your claim that your avatar is a picture of you.

Did you find "legitimate statistical data," in the post to which I was responding?

There are many news articles that attest to what I was driving at, such as:

"Nice refuses, on grounds of cost, to recommend some drugs for patients with advanced kidney cancer. The consultants, who include the directors of oncology at Britain’s two biggest cancer hospitals, the Royal Marsden in London and Christie hospital in Manchester, claim there is enough money in the NHS to pay for the drugs. "
Top doctors slam NHS drug rationing

There are many others along these lines.

The upshot is this: if national healthcare is imposed to bring the US percentage of GDP (16%) down to those in, say Canada, where it is 10%, there is no alternative other than rationing of healthcare, and declining the best pharmaceuticals.

Americans live longer with respect to many forms of cancer than those in countries with socialized medicine, and over 80% of Americans are happy with their healthcare.

If it's those without paid healthcare plans (everyone in the US has healthcare), then consider that it actually amounts to about 2.5- 2.6%. Reason to go national?

OK, you got me on the avatar. What can I say since my pic is in my profile.

 

[AllieBaba]

Exactly.

There'a a reason people from Canada come to the US for treatment.

 

[Red Dawn]

Exactly.

There'a a reason people from Canada come to the US for treatment.

The problem isn't technology.

The problem is access.

We have probably the best technology and specialists in the world. Rich people from around the world may come here for heart transplants, or procedures.


The problem is, not every one has access to adequate, affordable healthcare here. Because we don't cover all of our citizens with universal coverage.

 

[AllieBaba]

[
That is simply not the case. You make assumptions based on a faulty belief that a socialized medicine would provide good healthcare to eveyone. Not true as you can see below.

And for every example of 'socialised' medicine failing, I give you an example of 'capitalised' medicine failing. I'm sure there is a point in there somewhere...

Empty rhetoric, means nothing.

 

[AllieBaba]

Exactly.

There'a a reason people from Canada come to the US for treatment.

The problem isn't technology.

The problem is access.

We have probably the best technology and specialists in the world. Rich people from around the world may come here for heart transplants, or procedures.


The problem is, not every one has access to adequate, affordable healthcare here. Because we don't cover all of our citizens with universal coverage.

Not everyone has access to it in Canada, either, where they have to wait for CHEMO and RADIATION treatment.

 

[Tech_Esq]

Exactly.

There'a a reason people from Canada come to the US for treatment.

The problem isn't technology.

The problem is access.

We have probably the best technology and specialists in the world. Rich people from around the world may come here for heart transplants, or procedures.


The problem is, not every one has access to adequate, affordable healthcare here. Because we don't cover all of our citizens with universal coverage.

Right. It boils down to rationing one way or the other. In socialized systems, you're covered, if you can get the care.

In the current system, you can get the care if you are covered.

Your challenge is to decide whether the people who tell you to are all covered, will effectively produce more treated people than the current one.

Because the current problem is access, you are looking at it as an access issue. It really isn't. The bottom line is whether you end up with a better treated (medically) populace by objective standards regardless of how it happens.

Since there are those who wish to change the current system, i think the burden is on them to prove that it will result in a better treated, healthier population with none of the draw backs apparent in the Canadian and British systems.

I think there are serious opportunities to do better than what we have, but there are also serious opportunities to do worse.

 

[Harry Dresden]

We all know what a prosperous and successful democratic nation is. Its self evident.

yea the USA......

 

[Harry Dresden]

[
That is simply not the case. You make assumptions based on a faulty belief that a socialized medicine would provide good healthcare to eveyone. Not true as you can see below.

And for every example of 'socialised' medicine failing, I give you an example of 'capitalised' medicine failing. I'm sure there is a point in there somewhere...

then i guess this will end in a draw....

 

[Red Dawn]

Nobody in this country is proposing "socialize medicine".

that's just what Boss Limbaugh ordered you to believe.


If you want to debate this topic, you really should spend more than 30 seconds listening to the Limbaugh show, and at least learn what you're talking about.

Socialized medicine is where the government owns the hospitals, and doctors, nurses, and medical professionals are government employees.


There's not a single person in a position of authority in this country that has proposed that.

I'm not sure why wingnuts are afraid of having the same government financed healthcare that John Boehner and Dick Cheney use, made available to all americans. It seems to work well for Dick and the Boner. I don't see them complaining about it.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Nobody in this country is proposing "socialize medicine".

that's just what Boss Limbaugh ordered you to believe.


If you want to debate this topic, you really should spend more than 30 seconds listening to the Limbaugh show, and at least learn what you're talking about.

Socialized medicine is where the government owns the hospitals, and doctors, nurses, and medical professionals are government employees.


There's not a single person in a position of authority in this country that has proposed that.

I'm not sure why wingnuts are afraid of having the same government financed healthcare that John Boehner and Dick Cheney use, made available to all americans. It seems to work well for Dick and the Boner. I don't see them complaining about it.

more Michael Moore shit.....do read and watch anyone else RD?......i hear Al Gore and Nancy Pelosi are a good read.....

 

[Chris]

1. Canada's health care system is "socialized medicine."

Mythbusting Canadian Health Care -- Part I | OurFuture.org