Should sex offenders be absolved from public stigma?

[techieny]

I will not say that noone can be "cured" but having worked with a few pedophiles I will say that they don't see that they did anything wrong. They profess "love" for their victim and feel love from them. In their mind all they did was love a person who loves them back.
It is difficult, at best, to cure someone who firmly believes that they did nothing wrong.
That is why they have to register and stay away from the age group that could become victims. Just like you they feel it is normal to share their love with one who loves them. They just happen to love kids that are too young to be able to say no.
Putting them into a mental institution is not viable. Even chemical castration is limited in its results and depends on the perpetrator taking the meds. A bit like giving a wolf a leash and teaching it that it has to put the leash on to stay away from the sheep. When the wolf gets hungry enough it will go after the sheep. It is its nature.

Eh, yes and no but yes, in my encounter with one particular pedophile when I did my internship at USC medical center this particular individual expressed the same thing. Although he was also suffering from a brain tumor.

Good!!!

 

[syrenn]

Well in research majority of pedophiles have some sort of past history with sexual abuse, and physical abuse themselves. Their experiences creating a cyclic effect, eventually lands them in the situation they themselves were in. The stigma associated with being a sex offender in this case the pedophile does nothing for future preventative methods. I'm not saying their offense is excusable but I think society needs to be more educated in that the occurence of pedophilia is not spotaneous.

it is bullshit to blame your past of what you are doing to others......

Who says pedophiles use it as an excuse. I'm merely highlighting what research in case studies have shown. Pedophilia is not a spontaneous behavior. It came from somewhere.

why..... you yourself just did......

 

[syrenn]

Pedophiles don't think they need to recover. Society must learn to be more accepting of their sexual orientation. That's what they think of their own mental defect. It is a sexual orientation, no different than homosexuality. That's why they don't need to recover.

Which is why the homosexual community is trying to distance themselves from these people as fast as they can...

its a slippery slope with their argument....and they know it.


nambla and nagwala have been trying to attach themselves onto the homosexual coat tails for acceptability for a very long time.

 

[koshergrl]

I'm most referring to those who suffer from pedophelia (yes its a diagnosable paychiatric disorder) those who have done both group and personal therapy who have done away (or presumably so) with their sexual interest in prepubescent children.

My question is twofold:

1) Can someone who suffers from this condition find "absolution" from society

2) If not, how can someone who is a pedophile, recover if they are constantly bombarded with the reminder of their sins?

Should they be forgiven.... no. Should it all be swept under the carpet as if it never happened.... no. Should it ever be forgotten... no.

Its a free country....they can move to where they wish for a fresh start.

That is unless you are asking the bigger question of should there be watch lists of sexual offenders..... the answer to that is yes.

Well then I guess you do not not subscribe to the belief of the possibility of one recovering from a severe behavioral disorder. Interesting

Not when it's pedophilia.

 

[RosieS]

Homosexuality is legal. Expression of pedophilic urges is illegal everywhere and always. So is child pornography. I can't imagine this ever not being so since no sane person can ever believe children can consent.

Adult homosexuals are not psychiatrically deviant. Pedophiles are and always will be. Sane adults would never ever legitimize pedophilia in any form

It doesn't matter what gender the pedo or the child is. Child rape is child rape and is a psychiatric disorder.

Regards from Rosie

 

[Aristotle]

What evidence do you have that pedophilia is any different than homosexuality? If one can be cured, why not the other?

For one, pedophilia is a diagnosable disorder in the DSM-IV TR

"A. Over a period of at least 6 months, recurrent, intense sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors involving sexual activity with a prepubescent child or children (generally age 13 years or younger).

B. The person has acted on these urges, or the sexual urges or fantasies cause marked distress or interpersonal difficulty.

C. The person is at least age 16 years and at least 5 years older than the child or children in Criterion A.

Note: Do not include an individual in late adolescence involved in an ongoing sexual relationship with a 12- or 13-year-old."

Whereas us psychologist do not classify homosexuality which is an unchanged sexual orientation much like heterosexuality to not be a diagnosable disorder. In fact to even compare homosexuality to pedophilia would be an insult to homosexuals.

The APA (American Psychological Association) is clear on this issue:

Is homosexuality a mental disorder?

"No, lesbian, gay, and bisexual orientations are not disorders. Research has found no inherent association between any of these sexual orientations and psychopathology. Both heterosexual behavior and homosexual behavior are normal aspects of human sexuality. Both have been documented in many different cultures and historical eras. Despite the persistence of stereotypes that portray lesbian, gay, and bisexual people as disturbed, several decades of research and clinical experience have led all mainstream medical and mental health organizations in this country to conclude that these orientations represent normal forms of human experience. Lesbian, gay, and bisexual relationships are normal forms of human bonding. Therefore, these mainstream organizations long ago abandoned classifications of homosexuality as a mental disorder."

What about therapy intended to change sexual orientation from gay to straight?

"All major national mental health organizations have officially expressed concerns about therapies promoted to modify sexual orientation. To date, there has been no scientifically adequate research to show that therapy aimed at changing sexual orientation (sometimes called reparative or conversion therapy) is safe or effective. Furthermore, it seems likely that the promotion of change therapies reinforces stereotypes and contributes to a negative climate for lesbian, gay, and bisexual persons. This appears to be especially likely for lesbian, gay, and bisexual individuals who grow up in more conservative religious settings.

Helpful responses of a therapist treating an individual who is troubled about her or his same-sex attractions include helping that person actively cope with social prejudices against homosexuality, successfully resolve issues associated with and resulting from internal conflicts, and actively lead a happy and satisfying life. Mental health professional organizations call on their members to respect a person’s (client’s) right to self-determination; be sensitive to the client’s race, culture, ethnicity, age, gender, gender identity, sexual orientation, religion, socioeconomic status, language, and disability status when working with that client; and eliminate biases based on these factors."

See:Sexual orientation, homosexuality and bisexuality

Nice try Quantum, but you fail again...as usual

pedophilia.. is no different then homosexuality in terms of ...who and what you are sexual attracted to being outside the social norm.

It just so happens what pedos are attracted to are children.....

I think you need to understand the difference between gynephelia and androphelia. The issue regarding homosexual pedophilia is complex. Pedophilia is not homosexuality. One is a sexual orientation, the other is not. Which is why concerning gynophelia and androphelia they implement scales. As I mentioned before homosexuality is not a diagnosable disorder nor is there enough research to conclude that there is a high incidence of homosexual pedophilia.

 

[Aristotle]

again...no one recovers from being a pedophile.

why are you sympathetic to them?

or are you just trolling for a response?

No I am not really.

I am sympathetic to those suffering from mental illness. Do I think the actions of pedophiles are sick? Most definitely. But I'm a researcher. Rather than condemning something without understanding causality I'm trying to understand it. Scientist cannot dismiss something off fallacious premise, we need the scdientific method in understanding the issue. That is all I'm saying.

if you are a looking for a scientific answer...they why are you asking this question on a political message board?

Who says I'm looking for a scientific answer? I never asked that and if I did please put it in quotes here. I posed a question in a debate section. We are debating.

 

[syrenn]

Homosexuality is legal. Expression of pedophilic urges is illegal everywhere and always. So is child pornography. I can't imagine this ever not being so since no sane person can ever believe children can consent.

Adult homosexuals are not psychiatrically deviant. Pedophiles are and always will be. Sane adults would never ever legitimize pedophilia in any form

It doesn't matter what gender the pedo or the child is. Child rape is child rape and is a psychiatric disorder.

Regards from Rosie

i agree...

but pedos are also making the case that being a pedo is ASLO a sexual orientation....

 

[koshergrl]

Actually, there is a high incidence of homosexual pedophilia.

And we know that pedophiles are made, not born.

 

[koshergrl]

Homosexuality is legal. Expression of pedophilic urges is illegal everywhere and always. So is child pornography. I can't imagine this ever not being so since no sane person can ever believe children can consent.

Adult homosexuals are not psychiatrically deviant. Pedophiles are and always will be. Sane adults would never ever legitimize pedophilia in any form

It doesn't matter what gender the pedo or the child is. Child rape is child rape and is a psychiatric disorder.

Regards from Rosie

Not true. Child rape is not a psychiatric disorder.

And pedophiles often do have a sex preference.

 

[Aristotle]

You made the claim. YOU provide evidence a pedo has been CURED. You do remember one does not prove a negative, right? So provide us with actual proof of one being cured.

I am sure the children that the "improved" pedo rapes won't care that he showed improvement.

I never made the claim that anyone is "cured" you guys stated the word. I clearly mention that there was research that showed "promise" with a combination of techniques used in psychotherapy. Stop reading with emotion. I never said the word cured, if anything, I said the word recover. Recover is not the same as being cured. Know the difference.

they are still a danger to children...

end of discussion... i want to know if one of the creeps is living on my block.

oh..and in answer to your question:

read/learn

Pessimism About Pedophilia - Harvard Health Publications

...

Looks like you skimmed through your own reference

"Researchers also do not agree about what proportion of child sex abusers are pedophiles. Other types of offenders include sexually curious or abusive adolescents who molest younger children, hypersexual adults who opportunistically target children, and people who act impulsively (rather than in response to erotic attachment) under the influence of alcohol or drugs. Moreover, about half of all child sexual abuse victims are 12 to 17 years old (postpubescent), so their assailants don't meet the strict definition of pedophilia."

This is why clinicians continue to update the DSM because there is a need to expand the definition given the more we learn in research.

 

[Aristotle]

Actually, there is a high incidence of homosexual pedophilia.

And we know that pedophiles are made, not born.

Reference?

Edit****

Let me help you out...again

Previous investigations have indicated that the ratio of sex offenders against female children vs. offenders against male children is approximately 2:1, while the ratio of gynephiles to androphiles among the general population is approximately 20:1. The present study investigated whether the etiology of preferred partner sex among pedophiles is related to the etiology of preferred partner sex among males preferring adult partners. Using phallometric test sensitivities to calculate the proportion of true pedophiles among various groups of sex offenders against children, and taking into consideration previously reported mean numbers of victims per offender group, the ratio of heterosexual to homosexual pedophiles was calculated to be approximately 11:1. This suggests that the resulting proportion of true pedophiles among persons with a homosexual erotic development is greater than that in persons who develop heterosexually. This, of course, would not indicate that androphilic males have a greater propensity to offend against children.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1556756

Let me help you out some more...again


Irresponsible to Link Homosexuality, Pedophilia

"To link homosexuality and pedophilia (or ephebophilia) is obviously erroneous, uninformed and irresponsible. Homosexuality is a sexual orientation. Pedophilia and ephebophilia are sexual disorders that afflict both heterosexuals and homosexuals, and mostly heterosexuals." http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Spirituality/gay-priests-problem/story?id=10381964&page=2

The issue with pedophilia is rooted in the pathology of the behavior which may consist of various factors

 

[syrenn]

No I am not really.

I am sympathetic to those suffering from mental illness. Do I think the actions of pedophiles are sick? Most definitely. But I'm a researcher. Rather than condemning something without understanding causality I'm trying to understand it. Scientist cannot dismiss something off fallacious premise, we need the scdientific method in understanding the issue. That is all I'm saying.

if you are a looking for a scientific answer...they why are you asking this question on a political message board?

Who says I'm looking for a scientific answer? I never asked that and if I did please put it in quotes here. I posed a question in a debate section. We are debating.

Do you even read what you wirte???

But I'm a researcher. Rather than condemning something without understanding causality I'm trying to understand it. Scientist cannot dismiss something off fallacious premise, we need the scdientific method in understanding the issue. That is all I'm saying.

here ill bold it for you...again


you say you are a researcher
you say you are trying to understand it

the you say


THERE NEEND'S TO BE A SCIENTIFIC METHOD OF UNDERSTANDING IT.



so again i will ask...

if you are a looking for a scientific answer...then why are you asking this question on a political message board?

 

[RosieS]

Pedophiles don't think they need to recover. Society must learn to be more accepting of their sexual orientation. That's what they think of their own mental defect. It is a sexual orientation, no different than homosexuality. That's why they don't need to recover.

Which is why the homosexual community is trying to distance themselves from these people as fast as they can...

its a slippery slope with their argument....and they know it.


nambla and nagwala have been trying to attach themselves onto the homosexual coat tails for acceptability for a very long time.

Pedophilia will always be illegal. Children will never have the wherewithal to consent. The homosexuality argument is a red herring. It doesn't matter what gender the pedo or the child is: child rape is child rape.

There is no evidence that all pedos were victims as children. Many were not. It is a
psychiatric disorder whether brought on by unresolved rape crisis or abnormal fixations.

Regards from Rosie

 

[syrenn]

Pedophiles don't think they need to recover. Society must learn to be more accepting of their sexual orientation. That's what they think of their own mental defect. It is a sexual orientation, no different than homosexuality. That's why they don't need to recover.

Which is why the homosexual community is trying to distance themselves from these people as fast as they can...

its a slippery slope with their argument....and they know it.


nambla and nagwala have been trying to attach themselves onto the homosexual coat tails for acceptability for a very long time.

Pedophilia will always be illegal. Children will never have the wherewithal to consent. The homosexuality argument is a red herring. It doesn't matter what gender the pedo or the child is: child rape is child rape.

There is no evidence that all pedos were victims as children. Many were not. It is a
psychiatric disorder whether brought on by unresolved rape crisis or abnormal fixations.

Regards from Rosie

dont get me wrong..i am not throwing the homosexual under the bus. Nor am i saying that pedophilia should ever be legal.


however.... i do not believe that pedophilia is no more a mental illness then homosexuality. That may be a hard thing for many to come to grips and terms with though. It is a sexual preference...

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I'm most referring to those who suffer from pedophelia (yes its a diagnosable paychiatric disorder) those who have done both group and personal therapy who have done away (or presumably so) with their sexual interest in prepubescent children.

My question is twofold:

1) Can someone who suffers from this condition find "absolution" from society

2) If not, how can someone who is a pedophile, recover if they are constantly bombarded with the reminder of their sins?

Should they be forgiven.... no. Should it all be swept under the carpet as if it never happened.... no. Should it ever be forgotten... no.

Its a free country....they can move to where they wish for a fresh start.

That is unless you are asking the bigger question of should there be watch lists of sexual offenders..... the answer to that is yes.

Well then I guess you do not not subscribe to the belief of the possibility of one recovering from a severe behavioral disorder. Interesting

I though sexual preference is perfectly natural, when did it become a severe behavioral disorder?

 

[koshergrl]

Pedophiles don't think they need to recover. Society must learn to be more accepting of their sexual orientation. That's what they think of their own mental defect. It is a sexual orientation, no different than homosexuality. That's why they don't need to recover.

Which is why the homosexual community is trying to distance themselves from these people as fast as they can...

its a slippery slope with their argument....and they know it.


nambla and nagwala have been trying to attach themselves onto the homosexual coat tails for acceptability for a very long time.

Pedophilia will always be illegal. Children will never have the wherewithal to consent. The homosexuality argument is a red herring. It doesn't matter what gender the pedo or the child is: child rape is child rape.

There is no evidence that all pedos were victims as children. Many were not. It is a
psychiatric disorder whether brought on by unresolved rape crisis or abnormal fixations.

Regards from Rosie

There is evidence that all pedos were molested as chidlren, and exactly zero that pedos are born. YES IT OFTEN DOES MATTER what sex the child is. Pedophiles OFTEN identify themselves as having a preference for one sex or the other. The myth that pedophiles can't be homosexual because they're pedophiles is just that..a myth, propagated by the homosexual bloc.

And the schizophrenic posturing over this issue is ludicrous because...while homosexual activists insist that homosexuality *can't be helped* and is hardwired, they want to also assert that pedophilia is a sexual preference, separate from homosexuality...which presumably is also hardwired..

Except it's not. This we know about pedophilia...children aren't born that way. Pedophiles are created.

So if pedophiles are created, and they are a distinct *sexuality* from homosexuality, and pedophiles CAN'T be homosexual, because they're pedophiles...how is it that homosexuals are hardwired from birth...yet pedophiles are CREATED?

Are they not separate sexual preferences? If homosexuals can't help what they are, if they're BORN that way, if there was never a homosexual MADE...and if one can't be a homosexual pedophile because pedophilia is a separate sexual preference...then how can pedophiles be made, while homosexuals must be born?

Not that it matters...because there are homosexual pedophiles. There are also hetero pedophiles. Because pedophilia isn't hardwired at birth. It's hardwired later, via sexual abuse. It's a deviant sexual behavior that is taught, and then chosen, by the pedophile.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

anyone who has ever learned anything about pedophilia knows that it is impossible for a pedophile to keep himself under control. recidivism is almost guaranteed if they aren't imprisoned or chemically castrated.

Totally agree with the above. It also leads to the issue of current laws usually lumping the pedophilles listed above with other forms of "sex offenders." You can get situations where a 19 year old having consensual sex with his 15 year old girlfriend is considered similar to a flasher, a rapist or the above mentioned pedophile.

There should be no issue with stigma in society for pedophiles, as they shouldnt be let back into society. As for rapists, well you get what you sow. If the thought of the stigma of being a rapist following you through life is to tough, then dont be a rapist.

Well in research majority of pedophiles have some sort of past history with sexual abuse, and physical abuse themselves. Their experiences creating a cyclic effect, eventually lands them in the situation they themselves were in. The stigma associated with being a sex offender in this case the pedophile does nothing for future preventative methods. I'm not saying their offense is excusable but I think society needs to be more educated in that the occurence of pedophilia is not spotaneous.

Is that the same research that makes the same claims about homosexuality? Did it ever occur to you that they might be lying? That, because they have been caught, they are looking for mitigating circumstances to lessen their sentences?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Cognitive-behavioral therapy along with leuprolide acetate which is mostly used to treat prostate cancer and is a synthetic gonadotrophin releasing hormone, has shown promise reducing pedophilic fantasies, urges, and masturbation. Of course trial studies note that this has to be a continuing effort. You don't need to be "chemically castrated" but it does help.

pedophiles don't recover. no matter what efforts are made.

Do you have proof of this...Non-anecdotes please. I can point to you several research articles where there were imporvements.

You can start with this abstract here:

Archives of Sexual Behavior, Volume 34, Number 6 - SpringerLink

Improvement is not a cure, not to mention that all those improvements rely on the honesty of the participants.

 

[koshergrl]

There's no improvement with treatment, and there's no cure.

They can reduce the urges by medicating the holy crap out of peds, but it just masks it, it doesn't change it or fix it.

"Pedophilia, the sexual attraction to children who have not yet reached puberty, remains a vexing challenge for clinicians and public officials. Classified as a paraphilia, an abnormal sexual behavior, researchers have found no effective treatment. Like other sexual orientations, pedophilia is unlikely to change. The goal of treatment, therefore, is to prevent someone from acting on pedophile urges — either by decreasing sexual arousal around children or increasing the ability to manage that arousal. But neither is as effective for reducing harm as preventing access to children, or providing close supervision."

Pessimism About Pedophilia - Harvard Health Publications