Should sex offenders be absolved from public stigma?

[jillian]

I think you have it backwards: Just as recovering alcoholics admit that they are not "currently" drinking, pedophiles need to remember their addiction in order to keep it under control. That being said, the term "sex offender" is probably too broadly used in today's hypersensitive culture.

anyone who has ever learned anything about pedophilia knows that it is impossible for a pedophile to keep himself under control. recidivism is almost guaranteed if they aren't imprisoned or chemically castrated.

Cognitive-behavioral therapy along with leuprolide acetate which is mostly used to treat prostate cancer and is a synthetic gonadotrophin releasing hormone, has shown promise reducing pedophilic fantasies, urges, and masturbation. Of course trial studies note that this has to be a continuing effort. You don't need to be "chemically castrated" but it does help.

pedophiles don't recover. no matter what efforts are made.

 

[Aristotle]

I think you have it backwards: Just as recovering alcoholics admit that they are not "currently" drinking, pedophiles need to remember their addiction in order to keep it under control. That being said, the term "sex offender" is probably too broadly used in today's hypersensitive culture.

anyone who has ever learned anything about pedophilia knows that it is impossible for a pedophile to keep himself under control. recidivism is almost guaranteed if they aren't imprisoned or chemically castrated.

Totally agree with the above. It also leads to the issue of current laws usually lumping the pedophilles listed above with other forms of "sex offenders." You can get situations where a 19 year old having consensual sex with his 15 year old girlfriend is considered similar to a flasher, a rapist or the above mentioned pedophile.

There should be no issue with stigma in society for pedophiles, as they shouldnt be let back into society. As for rapists, well you get what you sow. If the thought of the stigma of being a rapist following you through life is to tough, then dont be a rapist.

Well in research majority of pedophiles have some sort of past history with sexual abuse, and physical abuse themselves. Their experiences creating a cyclic effect, eventually lands them in the situation they themselves were in. The stigma associated with being a sex offender in this case the pedophile does nothing for future preventative methods. I'm not saying their offense is excusable but I think society needs to be more educated in that the occurence of pedophilia is not spotaneous.

 

[Aristotle]

anyone who has ever learned anything about pedophilia knows that it is impossible for a pedophile to keep himself under control. recidivism is almost guaranteed if they aren't imprisoned or chemically castrated.

Cognitive-behavioral therapy along with leuprolide acetate which is mostly used to treat prostate cancer and is a synthetic gonadotrophin releasing hormone, has shown promise reducing pedophilic fantasies, urges, and masturbation. Of course trial studies note that this has to be a continuing effort. You don't need to be "chemically castrated" but it does help.

pedophiles don't recover. no matter what efforts are made.

Do you have proof of this...Non-anecdotes please. I can point to you several research articles where there were imporvements.

You can start with this abstract here:

http://www.springerlink.com/content/f847p86120935256/

 

[Aristotle]

I'm most referring to those who suffer from pedophelia (yes its a diagnosable paychiatric disorder) those who have done both group and personal therapy who have done away (or presumably so) with their sexual interest in prepubescent children.

My question is twofold:

1) Can someone who suffers from this condition find "absolution" from society

2) If not, how can someone who is a pedophile, recover if they are constantly bombarded with the reminder of their sins?

1) Like WJC?
2) No

Ok going to 2) How do you know concretely that someone suffering from pedophilia do not recover?

 

[Aristotle]

I'm most referring to those who suffer from pedophelia (yes its a diagnosable paychiatric disorder) those who have done both group and personal therapy who have done away (or presumably so) with their sexual interest in prepubescent children.

My question is twofold:

1) Can someone who suffers from this condition find "absolution" from society

2) If not, how can someone who is a pedophile, recover if they are constantly bombarded with the reminder of their sins?

None of them are cured, all will repeat their crimes.

Are you saying without continuing psychotherapy along with medication there is still a chance for recidivism among these particular sex offenders?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Cognitive-behavioral therapy along with leuprolide acetate which is mostly used to treat prostate cancer and is a synthetic gonadotrophin releasing hormone, has shown promise reducing pedophilic fantasies, urges, and masturbation. Of course trial studies note that this has to be a continuing effort. You don't need to be "chemically castrated" but it does help.

pedophiles don't recover. no matter what efforts are made.

Do you have proof of this...Non-anecdotes please. I can point to you several research articles where there were imporvements.

You can start with this abstract here:

Archives of Sexual Behavior, Volume 34, Number 6 - SpringerLink

You made the claim. YOU provide evidence a pedo has been CURED. You do remember one does not prove a negative, right? So provide us with actual proof of one being cured.

I am sure the children that the "improved" pedo rapes won't care that he showed improvement.

 

[syrenn]

I'm most referring to those who suffer from pedophelia (yes its a diagnosable paychiatric disorder) those who have done both group and personal therapy who have done away (or presumably so) with their sexual interest in prepubescent children.

My question is twofold:

1) Can someone who suffers from this condition find "absolution" from society

2) If not, how can someone who is a pedophile, recover if they are constantly bombarded with the reminder of their sins?

Should they be forgiven.... no. Should it all be swept under the carpet as if it never happened.... no. Should it ever be forgotten... no.

Its a free country....they can move to where they wish for a fresh start.

That is unless you are asking the bigger question of should there be watch lists of sexual offenders..... the answer to that is yes.

Well then I guess you do not not subscribe to the belief of the possibility of one recovering from a severe behavioral disorder. Interesting

most ..."recovered" relapse. The only thing they may gain...is a bit of control over their urges. That is not recovered.... it is only hiding what they want better.

I also do not think there is a "cure" for this. Just as there is no "cure" for being gay. Fucking children is what "does" it for them..... simple as that.

 

[syrenn]

anyone who has ever learned anything about pedophilia knows that it is impossible for a pedophile to keep himself under control. recidivism is almost guaranteed if they aren't imprisoned or chemically castrated.

Cognitive-behavioral therapy along with leuprolide acetate which is mostly used to treat prostate cancer and is a synthetic gonadotrophin releasing hormone, has shown promise reducing pedophilic fantasies, urges, and masturbation. Of course trial studies note that this has to be a continuing effort. You don't need to be "chemically castrated" but it does help.

pedophiles don't recover. no matter what efforts are made.

They no more recover then a gay person does with trying to be straight...

all that happens is they are given the tools to hide it better.

 

[syrenn]

anyone who has ever learned anything about pedophilia knows that it is impossible for a pedophile to keep himself under control. recidivism is almost guaranteed if they aren't imprisoned or chemically castrated.

Totally agree with the above. It also leads to the issue of current laws usually lumping the pedophilles listed above with other forms of "sex offenders." You can get situations where a 19 year old having consensual sex with his 15 year old girlfriend is considered similar to a flasher, a rapist or the above mentioned pedophile.

There should be no issue with stigma in society for pedophiles, as they shouldnt be let back into society. As for rapists, well you get what you sow. If the thought of the stigma of being a rapist following you through life is to tough, then dont be a rapist.

Well in research majority of pedophiles have some sort of past history with sexual abuse, and physical abuse themselves. Their experiences creating a cyclic effect, eventually lands them in the situation they themselves were in. The stigma associated with being a sex offender in this case the pedophile does nothing for future preventative methods. I'm not saying their offense is excusable but I think society needs to be more educated in that the occurence of pedophilia is not spotaneous.

it is bullshit to blame your past of what you are doing to others......


total excuse.

 

[Aristotle]

I'm most referring to those who suffer from pedophelia (yes its a diagnosable paychiatric disorder) those who have done both group and personal therapy who have done away (or presumably so) with their sexual interest in prepubescent children.

My question is twofold:

1) Can someone who suffers from this condition find "absolution" from society

2) If not, how can someone who is a pedophile, recover if they are constantly bombarded with the reminder of their sins?

What evidence do you have that pedophilia is any different than homosexuality? If one can be cured, why not the other?

For one, pedophilia is a diagnosable disorder in the DSM-IV TR

"A. Over a period of at least 6 months, recurrent, intense sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors involving sexual activity with a prepubescent child or children (generally age 13 years or younger).

B. The person has acted on these urges, or the sexual urges or fantasies cause marked distress or interpersonal difficulty.

C. The person is at least age 16 years and at least 5 years older than the child or children in Criterion A.

Note: Do not include an individual in late adolescence involved in an ongoing sexual relationship with a 12- or 13-year-old."

Whereas us psychologist do not classify homosexuality which is an unchanged sexual orientation much like heterosexuality to not be a diagnosable disorder. In fact to even compare homosexuality to pedophilia would be an insult to homosexuals.

The APA (American Psychological Association) is clear on this issue:

Is homosexuality a mental disorder?

"No, lesbian, gay, and bisexual orientations are not disorders. Research has found no inherent association between any of these sexual orientations and psychopathology. Both heterosexual behavior and homosexual behavior are normal aspects of human sexuality. Both have been documented in many different cultures and historical eras. Despite the persistence of stereotypes that portray lesbian, gay, and bisexual people as disturbed, several decades of research and clinical experience have led all mainstream medical and mental health organizations in this country to conclude that these orientations represent normal forms of human experience. Lesbian, gay, and bisexual relationships are normal forms of human bonding. Therefore, these mainstream organizations long ago abandoned classifications of homosexuality as a mental disorder."

What about therapy intended to change sexual orientation from gay to straight?

"All major national mental health organizations have officially expressed concerns about therapies promoted to modify sexual orientation. To date, there has been no scientifically adequate research to show that therapy aimed at changing sexual orientation (sometimes called reparative or conversion therapy) is safe or effective. Furthermore, it seems likely that the promotion of change therapies reinforces stereotypes and contributes to a negative climate for lesbian, gay, and bisexual persons. This appears to be especially likely for lesbian, gay, and bisexual individuals who grow up in more conservative religious settings.

Helpful responses of a therapist treating an individual who is troubled about her or his same-sex attractions include helping that person actively cope with social prejudices against homosexuality, successfully resolve issues associated with and resulting from internal conflicts, and actively lead a happy and satisfying life. Mental health professional organizations call on their members to respect a person’s (client’s) right to self-determination; be sensitive to the client’s race, culture, ethnicity, age, gender, gender identity, sexual orientation, religion, socioeconomic status, language, and disability status when working with that client; and eliminate biases based on these factors."

See:Sexual orientation, homosexuality and bisexuality

Nice try Quantum, but you fail again...as usual

 

[Aristotle]

Should they be forgiven.... no. Should it all be swept under the carpet as if it never happened.... no. Should it ever be forgotten... no.

Its a free country....they can move to where they wish for a fresh start.

That is unless you are asking the bigger question of should there be watch lists of sexual offenders..... the answer to that is yes.

Well then I guess you do not not subscribe to the belief of the possibility of one recovering from a severe behavioral disorder. Interesting

again...no one recovers from being a pedophile.

why are you sympathetic to them?

or are you just trolling for a response?

No I am not really.

I am sympathetic to those suffering from mental illness. Do I think the actions of pedophiles are sick? Most definitely. But I'm a researcher. Rather than condemning something without understanding causality I'm trying to understand it. Scientist cannot dismiss something off fallacious premise, we need the scdientific method in understanding the issue. That is all I'm saying.

 

[Aristotle]

pedophiles don't recover. no matter what efforts are made.

Do you have proof of this...Non-anecdotes please. I can point to you several research articles where there were imporvements.

You can start with this abstract here:

Archives of Sexual Behavior, Volume 34, Number 6 - SpringerLink

You made the claim. YOU provide evidence a pedo has been CURED. You do remember one does not prove a negative, right? So provide us with actual proof of one being cured.

I am sure the children that the "improved" pedo rapes won't care that he showed improvement.

I never made the claim that anyone is "cured" you guys stated the word. I clearly mention that there was research that showed "promise" with a combination of techniques used in psychotherapy. Stop reading with emotion. I never said the word cured, if anything, I said the word recover. Recover is not the same as being cured. Know the difference.

 

[Aristotle]

Should they be forgiven.... no. Should it all be swept under the carpet as if it never happened.... no. Should it ever be forgotten... no.

Its a free country....they can move to where they wish for a fresh start.

That is unless you are asking the bigger question of should there be watch lists of sexual offenders..... the answer to that is yes.

Well then I guess you do not not subscribe to the belief of the possibility of one recovering from a severe behavioral disorder. Interesting

most ..."recovered" relapse. The only thing they may gain...is a bit of control over their urges. That is not recovered.... it is only hiding what they want better.

I also do not think there is a "cure" for this. Just as there is no "cure" for being gay. Fucking children is what "does" it for them..... simple as that.

This makes no sense.

So someone recovering from heroin addiction is not necessarily recovered, they are just hiding what they truly want. That really makes no sense at all and in fact for those that are recovering addicts that really downplays their efforts. True, there are those that do not recover ever. Not becase they can't but because they have an inability to cope with a new lifestyle. A therapist cannot be with someone 24/7 which is why most psychotherapy sesssions try to equip people with tools to do it themselves.

 

[syrenn]

Well then I guess you do not not subscribe to the belief of the possibility of one recovering from a severe behavioral disorder. Interesting

again...no one recovers from being a pedophile.

why are you sympathetic to them?

or are you just trolling for a response?

No I am not really.

I am sympathetic to those suffering from mental illness. Do I think the actions of pedophiles are sick? Most definitely. But I'm a researcher. Rather than condemning something without understanding causality I'm trying to understand it. Scientist cannot dismiss something off fallacious premise, we need the scdientific method in understanding the issue. That is all I'm saying.

if you are a looking for a scientific answer...they why are you asking this question on a political message board?

 

[jillian]

Do you have proof of this...Non-anecdotes please. I can point to you several research articles where there were imporvements.

You can start with this abstract here:

Archives of Sexual Behavior, Volume 34, Number 6 - SpringerLink

You made the claim. YOU provide evidence a pedo has been CURED. You do remember one does not prove a negative, right? So provide us with actual proof of one being cured.

I am sure the children that the "improved" pedo rapes won't care that he showed improvement.

I never made the claim that anyone is "cured" you guys stated the word. I clearly mention that there was research that showed "promise" with a combination of techniques used in psychotherapy. Stop reading with emotion. I never said the word cured, if anything, I said the word recover. Recover is not the same as being cured. Know the difference.

they are still a danger to children...

end of discussion... i want to know if one of the creeps is living on my block.

oh..and in answer to your question:

read/learn

Pessimism About Pedophilia - Harvard Health Publications

 

[Aristotle]

Totally agree with the above. It also leads to the issue of current laws usually lumping the pedophilles listed above with other forms of "sex offenders." You can get situations where a 19 year old having consensual sex with his 15 year old girlfriend is considered similar to a flasher, a rapist or the above mentioned pedophile.

There should be no issue with stigma in society for pedophiles, as they shouldnt be let back into society. As for rapists, well you get what you sow. If the thought of the stigma of being a rapist following you through life is to tough, then dont be a rapist.

Well in research majority of pedophiles have some sort of past history with sexual abuse, and physical abuse themselves. Their experiences creating a cyclic effect, eventually lands them in the situation they themselves were in. The stigma associated with being a sex offender in this case the pedophile does nothing for future preventative methods. I'm not saying their offense is excusable but I think society needs to be more educated in that the occurence of pedophilia is not spotaneous.

it is bullshit to blame your past of what you are doing to others......


total excuse.

Who says pedophiles use it as an excuse. I'm merely highlighting what research in case studies have shown. Pedophilia is not a spontaneous behavior. It came from somewhere.

 

[syrenn]

Well then I guess you do not not subscribe to the belief of the possibility of one recovering from a severe behavioral disorder. Interesting

most ..."recovered" relapse. The only thing they may gain...is a bit of control over their urges. That is not recovered.... it is only hiding what they want better.

I also do not think there is a "cure" for this. Just as there is no "cure" for being gay. Fucking children is what "does" it for them..... simple as that.

This makes no sense.

So someone recovering from heroin addiction is not necessarily recovered, they are just hiding what they truly want. That really makes no sense at all and in fact for those that are recovering addicts that really downplays their efforts.

Ever talk to a "recovered" heroine addict? They want to use ALL the time.....

 

[syrenn]

I'm most referring to those who suffer from pedophelia (yes its a diagnosable paychiatric disorder) those who have done both group and personal therapy who have done away (or presumably so) with their sexual interest in prepubescent children.

My question is twofold:

1) Can someone who suffers from this condition find "absolution" from society

2) If not, how can someone who is a pedophile, recover if they are constantly bombarded with the reminder of their sins?

What evidence do you have that pedophilia is any different than homosexuality? If one can be cured, why not the other?

For one, pedophilia is a diagnosable disorder in the DSM-IV TR

"A. Over a period of at least 6 months, recurrent, intense sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors involving sexual activity with a prepubescent child or children (generally age 13 years or younger).

B. The person has acted on these urges, or the sexual urges or fantasies cause marked distress or interpersonal difficulty.

C. The person is at least age 16 years and at least 5 years older than the child or children in Criterion A.

Note: Do not include an individual in late adolescence involved in an ongoing sexual relationship with a 12- or 13-year-old."

Whereas us psychologist do not classify homosexuality which is an unchanged sexual orientation much like heterosexuality to not be a diagnosable disorder. In fact to even compare homosexuality to pedophilia would be an insult to homosexuals.

The APA (American Psychological Association) is clear on this issue:

Is homosexuality a mental disorder?

"No, lesbian, gay, and bisexual orientations are not disorders. Research has found no inherent association between any of these sexual orientations and psychopathology. Both heterosexual behavior and homosexual behavior are normal aspects of human sexuality. Both have been documented in many different cultures and historical eras. Despite the persistence of stereotypes that portray lesbian, gay, and bisexual people as disturbed, several decades of research and clinical experience have led all mainstream medical and mental health organizations in this country to conclude that these orientations represent normal forms of human experience. Lesbian, gay, and bisexual relationships are normal forms of human bonding. Therefore, these mainstream organizations long ago abandoned classifications of homosexuality as a mental disorder."

What about therapy intended to change sexual orientation from gay to straight?

"All major national mental health organizations have officially expressed concerns about therapies promoted to modify sexual orientation. To date, there has been no scientifically adequate research to show that therapy aimed at changing sexual orientation (sometimes called reparative or conversion therapy) is safe or effective. Furthermore, it seems likely that the promotion of change therapies reinforces stereotypes and contributes to a negative climate for lesbian, gay, and bisexual persons. This appears to be especially likely for lesbian, gay, and bisexual individuals who grow up in more conservative religious settings.

Helpful responses of a therapist treating an individual who is troubled about her or his same-sex attractions include helping that person actively cope with social prejudices against homosexuality, successfully resolve issues associated with and resulting from internal conflicts, and actively lead a happy and satisfying life. Mental health professional organizations call on their members to respect a person’s (client’s) right to self-determination; be sensitive to the client’s race, culture, ethnicity, age, gender, gender identity, sexual orientation, religion, socioeconomic status, language, and disability status when working with that client; and eliminate biases based on these factors."

See:Sexual orientation, homosexuality and bisexuality

Nice try Quantum, but you fail again...as usual

pedophilia.. is no different then homosexuality in terms of ...who and what you are sexual attracted to being outside the social norm.

It just so happens what pedos are attracted to are children.....

 

[Aristotle]

I will not say that noone can be "cured" but having worked with a few pedophiles I will say that they don't see that they did anything wrong. They profess "love" for their victim and feel love from them. In their mind all they did was love a person who loves them back.
It is difficult, at best, to cure someone who firmly believes that they did nothing wrong.
That is why they have to register and stay away from the age group that could become victims. Just like you they feel it is normal to share their love with one who loves them. They just happen to love kids that are too young to be able to say no.
Putting them into a mental institution is not viable. Even chemical castration is limited in its results and depends on the perpetrator taking the meds. A bit like giving a wolf a leash and teaching it that it has to put the leash on to stay away from the sheep. When the wolf gets hungry enough it will go after the sheep. It is its nature.

Eh, yes and no but yes, in my encounter with one particular pedophile when I did my internship at USC medical center this particular individual expressed the same thing. Although he was also suffering from a brain tumor.

 

[Katzndogz]

Pedophiles don't think they need to recover. Society must learn to be more accepting of their sexual orientation. That's what they think of their own mental defect. It is a sexual orientation, no different than homosexuality. That's why they don't need to recover.