Should sex offenders be absolved from public stigma?

[syrenn]

I think you meant to say that you do not believe that pedophilia is any more a mental illness than homosexuality.

While it is true that neither pedophilia nor homosexuality are forms of mental illness, it does not necessarily follow that either of them are matters of choice or preference, rather than compulsion. In spite of your opinion on this subject, I think that the better thinking in today's scientific world is that both homosexuality and pedophilia are genetically formed, rather than matters of free choice.

I prefer to believe that they are both choice, but it, ultimately, means the same thing. Either you can chose, or you can't. It makes no sense to argue that adult homosexuals and heterosexuals cannot choose, then argue that adult pedophiles are free to choose.

Homosexuality is not a choice and neither is pedophilia.

good to see you feel that way.

So lets extrapolate this.

since being a homosexual is not a mental illness based on what you are sexually attracted to.... then neither is or should be pedophilia.


homosexuals however play within the rules of the age of consent.... they play with adults and are attracted to adults.

pedos..... still want what they want... and that is children. What pisses them off is what they want is off limits to them and against the law.

There is no "fixing or curing" pedos..... just as there is no "fixing or curing" someone who is gay.

So saying that they will ever be safe around children becasue they are "cured"....is dangerous.

 

[koshergrl]

Is that the same research that makes the same claims about homosexuality? Did it ever occur to you that they might be lying? That, because they have been caught, they are looking for mitigating circumstances to lessen their sentences?

I just gave you a direct link from the APA webaite that clearly defines homosexuality to not be a disorder. You are telling me this organization that has done countless research and has been around for decades is wrong?

And I pointed out why that decision was made. Feel free to show me the actual science behind the change of opinion, if you can find it.

The *science* came from Alfred Kinsey, who polled sex offenders, rapists and prisoners to come up with a new sexual "norm". Using his studies, the APA determined that homosexuality was perfectly "normal" and not a deviant behavior.

Kinsey also studies sexual response in children as young as 4 months, and using THOSE studies the kinsey institute and PP created today's sex education program for children....and continue to this day to seek to normalize sexual relations with children. See OP. Pedophilia's a MENTAL DISORDER, the poor things. We need to help them by ignoring their unfortunate problem, instead of stigmatizing them. They might have trouble *recovering* if they are *constantly reminded* of the fact that they have screwed children.

 

[syrenn]

I just gave you a direct link from the APA webaite that clearly defines homosexuality to not be a disorder. You are telling me this organization that has done countless research and has been around for decades is wrong?

And I pointed out why that decision was made. Feel free to show me the actual science behind the change of opinion, if you can find it.

The *science* came from Albert Kinsey, who polled sex offenders, rapists and prisoners to come up with a new sexual "norm". Using his studies, the APA determined that homosexuality was perfectly "normal" and not a deviant behavior.

Kinsey also studies sexual response in children as young as 4 months, and using THOSE studies the kinsey institute and PP created today's sex education program for children....and continue to this day to seek to normalize sexual relations with children. See OP. Pedophilia's a MENTAL DISORDER, the poor things. We need to help them by ignoring their unfortunate problem, instead of stigmatizing them. They might have trouble *recovering* if they are *constantly reminded* of the fact that they have screwed children.

Yes..... and now he is going to have a serious time squaring that statement...with this

Homosexuality is not a choice and neither is pedophilia.

So either they all three mental disorders.... or all three not.

If you can "cure" pedo's.... then you should also be able to cure "homosexuality"

 

[sakinago]

I'm most referring to those who suffer from pedophelia (yes its a diagnosable paychiatric disorder) those who have done both group and personal therapy who have done away (or presumably so) with their sexual interest in prepubescent children.

My question is twofold:

1) Can someone who suffers from this condition find "absolution" from society

2) If not, how can someone who is a pedophile, recover if they are constantly bombarded with the reminder of their sins?

Should they be forgiven.... no. Should it all be swept under the carpet as if it never happened.... no. Should it ever be forgotten... no.

Its a free country....they can move to where they wish for a fresh start.

That is unless you are asking the bigger question of should there be watch lists of sexual offenders..... the answer to that is yes.

Agreed...for the most part. We got to make sure we get the people who are a danger to children. I forget the numbers, but there is a lot of people who are on the list who arnt even pedophiles. And now I think they are trying to add prostitutes to the list? Im sorry but I dont really call them a threat to society or children. And there are a lot cases of ppl on there who got there by streaking somewhere public, grabbing someones ass at a bar or something and having charges filed against, and romeo and juliet cases. My buddies little brother was 18 dating a 15 year old, when he was 19 broke up with her, the parents didnt like it and now hes on the list. Are theses people stupid, hell yes, do they deserve to be on the list or are they pedophiles, Im gonna say no.

On top of that, parents need to realize that the list isnt going to do much to protect their family. You wanna protect your kids, educate them and yourselves. Most cases of molestation happens within the family (uncle, grandpa, cousin, etc.) and a lot do not get talked until much later in life. The few cases like penn state, are done by these pedophiles who know how to manipulate and get away with it, and get away with it for years. I will bet my house that sandusky didnt decide to become a pedophile in the 90's, but its been going on for years. You gotta educate you and your kids, I cant stress that enough. When the real pedophiles make it on the list, the damage is already done, we got to stop the damage before it happens

 

[AmyNation]

Pedophilia is not curable.

 

[RosieS]

Which is why the homosexual community is trying to distance themselves from these people as fast as they can...

its a slippery slope with their argument....and they know it.


nambla and nagwala have been trying to attach themselves onto the homosexual coat tails for acceptability for a very long time.

Pedophilia will always be illegal. Children will never have the wherewithal to consent. The homosexuality argument is a red herring. It doesn't matter what gender the pedo or the child is: child rape is child rape.

There is no evidence that all pedos were victims as children. Many were not. It is a
psychiatric disorder whether brought on by unresolved rape crisis or abnormal fixations.

Regards from Rosie

There is evidence that all pedos were molested as chidlren, and exactly zero that pedos are born. YES IT OFTEN DOES MATTER what sex the child is. Pedophiles OFTEN identify themselves as having a preference for one sex or the other. The myth that pedophiles can't be homosexual because they're pedophiles is just that..a myth, propagated by the homosexual bloc.

And the schizophrenic posturing over this issue is ludicrous because...while homosexual activists insist that homosexuality *can't be helped* and is hardwired, they want to also assert that pedophilia is a sexual preference, separate from homosexuality...which presumably is also hardwired..

Except it's not. This we know about pedophilia...children aren't born that way. Pedophiles are created.

So if pedophiles are created, and they are a distinct *sexuality* from homosexuality, and pedophiles CAN'T be homosexual, because they're pedophiles...how is it that homosexuals are hardwired from birth...yet pedophiles are CREATED?

Are they not separate sexual preferences? If homosexuals can't help what they are, if they're BORN that way, if there was never a homosexual MADE...and if one can't be a homosexual pedophile because pedophilia is a separate sexual preference...then how can pedophiles be made, while homosexuals must be born?

Not that it matters...because there are homosexual pedophiles. There are also hetero pedophiles. Because pedophilia isn't hardwired at birth. It's hardwired later, via sexual abuse. It's a deviant sexual behavior that is taught, and then chosen, by the pedophile.[/
QUOTE]

For some who were not molested as children it is a compulsion they fell into as I stated.

If you paid for an adult male prostitute for a "homosexual" pedo they may or may not perform. Offer them a little girl and they will be happier.

It is about grooming children and then getting the payoff of raping that child. Also saying
the child asked for it and "wanted" it. That is part and parcel of the sickness.

Most are male, married with children of their own They are not homosexual adults - just homosexual with boys. Jerry Sandusky was all this.

Whether it is a girl or boy raped, it is the grooming and domination and blaming the victim that are hallmarks of pedophilia.

Regards from Rosie

 

[Aristotle]

What evidence do you have that pedophilia is any different than homosexuality? If one can be cured, why not the other?

For one, pedophilia is a diagnosable disorder in the DSM-IV TR

"A. Over a period of at least 6 months, recurrent, intense sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors involving sexual activity with a prepubescent child or children (generally age 13 years or younger).

B. The person has acted on these urges, or the sexual urges or fantasies cause marked distress or interpersonal difficulty.

C. The person is at least age 16 years and at least 5 years older than the child or children in Criterion A.

Note: Do not include an individual in late adolescence involved in an ongoing sexual relationship with a 12- or 13-year-old."

Whereas us psychologist do not classify homosexuality which is an unchanged sexual orientation much like heterosexuality to not be a diagnosable disorder. In fact to even compare homosexuality to pedophilia would be an insult to homosexuals.

The APA (American Psychological Association) is clear on this issue:

Is homosexuality a mental disorder?

"No, lesbian, gay, and bisexual orientations are not disorders. Research has found no inherent association between any of these sexual orientations and psychopathology. Both heterosexual behavior and homosexual behavior are normal aspects of human sexuality. Both have been documented in many different cultures and historical eras. Despite the persistence of stereotypes that portray lesbian, gay, and bisexual people as disturbed, several decades of research and clinical experience have led all mainstream medical and mental health organizations in this country to conclude that these orientations represent normal forms of human experience. Lesbian, gay, and bisexual relationships are normal forms of human bonding. Therefore, these mainstream organizations long ago abandoned classifications of homosexuality as a mental disorder."

What about therapy intended to change sexual orientation from gay to straight?

"All major national mental health organizations have officially expressed concerns about therapies promoted to modify sexual orientation. To date, there has been no scientifically adequate research to show that therapy aimed at changing sexual orientation (sometimes called reparative or conversion therapy) is safe or effective. Furthermore, it seems likely that the promotion of change therapies reinforces stereotypes and contributes to a negative climate for lesbian, gay, and bisexual persons. This appears to be especially likely for lesbian, gay, and bisexual individuals who grow up in more conservative religious settings.

Helpful responses of a therapist treating an individual who is troubled about her or his same-sex attractions include helping that person actively cope with social prejudices against homosexuality, successfully resolve issues associated with and resulting from internal conflicts, and actively lead a happy and satisfying life. Mental health professional organizations call on their members to respect a person’s (client’s) right to self-determination; be sensitive to the client’s race, culture, ethnicity, age, gender, gender identity, sexual orientation, religion, socioeconomic status, language, and disability status when working with that client; and eliminate biases based on these factors."

See:Sexual orientation, homosexuality and bisexuality

Nice try Quantum, but you fail again...as usual

Pedophilia and homosexuality were both listed in the DSM II until political pressure made it inadvisable to continue listing homosexuality as a disorder. That pressure resulted in them dropping it in DSM III. Any informed person would know that, and not try to pretend that the lack of a change in one is proof of anything other than a lack political pressure.

Want to try again and provide objective scientific data to show a difference?

Nice job using google and paraphrasing what others wrote.

Regardless the political motive research has progressed and more research has developed showing that homosexuality may have both genetic and environmental components. Different from the Freudian perspective and who (Freud) developed his ideas on homosexuality from Richard von Krafft-Ebing and Hirschfield, in which Freud believed that all humans were born bi-sexual and that there are pathological components to sexual orientation.

As far as scientific difference I cannot account for every single research that has been done comparing homosexual male brains to heterosexual female brains. There are various ideas regarding the endocrine system. In some studies the anterior portion of the hypothalamus may vary in size between homosexual men and heterosexual women see:

https://fc.deltasd.bc.ca/~dmatthews/FOV2-00074762/S02DB0598.38/LeVay study.pdf

With pedophiles there still need to be more research on neurobiological mechanism in sex offenders but there are some research that points to brain structural abnormalities speculating frontocortical dysfunction. One research highlights:

"Compared to the homosexual and heterosexual control subjects, pedophiles showed decreased gray matter volume in the ventral striatum (also extending into the nucl. accumbens), the orbitofrontal cortex and the cerebellum.

These observations further indicate an association between frontostriatal morphometric abnormalities and pedophilia. In this respect these findings may support the hypothesis that there is a shared etiopathological mechanism in all obsessive–compulsive spectrum disorders."

ScienceDirect.com - Journal of Psychiatric Research - Structural brain abnormalities in the frontostriatal system and cerebellum in pedophilia

 

[Aristotle]

where do i say that homosexuals are pedophiles?


However...if a pedophile hunts its own sex exclusive...then that person is not only a pedo..but a gay pedo.

Because you made the assertion that pedophilia is no different than homosexuality which is comparing apples and oranges. As of yet, pedophilia is not a sexual orientation. Although it invoves sexualized fantasy of prepubescent children there is no comparison between homosexuality and pedophilia. I believe when I gave Quantum that from the APA website it explained that already. If we are making that comparison upon sexual attraction based on who we desire.you can certainly make the case for heterosexuals but the matter here is the age of the tareget whom you're attracted to which is why in doing testing we have test for androphilia and gynophilia.

i assume you are able to read. I put a specific rider on my comparison.

pedophilia.. is no different then homosexuality in terms of ...who and what you are sexually attracted to being outside the social norm.

Yes I noticed the play on words....The same can be said about heterosexuality as well.

 

[Aristotle]

I prefer to believe that they are both choice, but it, ultimately, means the same thing. Either you can chose, or you can't. It makes no sense to argue that adult homosexuals and heterosexuals cannot choose, then argue that adult pedophiles are free to choose.

Homosexuality is not a choice and neither is pedophilia.

good to see you feel that way.

So lets extrapolate this.

since being a homosexual is not a mental illness based on what you are sexually attracted to.... then neither is or should be pedophilia.


homosexuals however play within the rules of the age of consent.... they play with adults and are attracted to adults.

pedos..... still want what they want... and that is children. What pisses them off is what they want is off limits to them and against the law.

There is no "fixing or curing" pedos..... just as there is no "fixing or curing" someone who is gay.

So saying that they will ever be safe around children becasue they are "cured"....is dangerous.

You have it wrong. Yes regarding pedophilia there is no choice because its a pathology which is different from homosexuality. The development of pedophilia is caused by various factors which I've already highlighted earlier. In the biopsychology circle some are even attributing pedophilia to having an abnormal genetic component see:

ScienceDirect.com - Psychiatry Research - Pedophilia is accompanied by increased plasma concentrations of catecholamines, in particular epinephrine

When I say pedophilia is not a choice I'm referring to the pathology and the displayed behaviors from its development. Pedophilia is destructive, and it ruins lives. You don't "cure" homosexuality because homosexual behavior, unlike pedophilia, it's not destructive. That is why we clinicians do not use the word "cure" and besides using the word cure to describe homosexual orientation in comparison to pedophilia is again, comparing apples and oranges. You cannot compare one destructive lifestyle to a non-destructive lifestyle.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

For one, pedophilia is a diagnosable disorder in the DSM-IV TR

"A. Over a period of at least 6 months, recurrent, intense sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors involving sexual activity with a prepubescent child or children (generally age 13 years or younger).

B. The person has acted on these urges, or the sexual urges or fantasies cause marked distress or interpersonal difficulty.

C. The person is at least age 16 years and at least 5 years older than the child or children in Criterion A.

Note: Do not include an individual in late adolescence involved in an ongoing sexual relationship with a 12- or 13-year-old."

Whereas us psychologist do not classify homosexuality which is an unchanged sexual orientation much like heterosexuality to not be a diagnosable disorder. In fact to even compare homosexuality to pedophilia would be an insult to homosexuals.

The APA (American Psychological Association) is clear on this issue:

Is homosexuality a mental disorder?

"No, lesbian, gay, and bisexual orientations are not disorders. Research has found no inherent association between any of these sexual orientations and psychopathology. Both heterosexual behavior and homosexual behavior are normal aspects of human sexuality. Both have been documented in many different cultures and historical eras. Despite the persistence of stereotypes that portray lesbian, gay, and bisexual people as disturbed, several decades of research and clinical experience have led all mainstream medical and mental health organizations in this country to conclude that these orientations represent normal forms of human experience. Lesbian, gay, and bisexual relationships are normal forms of human bonding. Therefore, these mainstream organizations long ago abandoned classifications of homosexuality as a mental disorder."

What about therapy intended to change sexual orientation from gay to straight?

"All major national mental health organizations have officially expressed concerns about therapies promoted to modify sexual orientation. To date, there has been no scientifically adequate research to show that therapy aimed at changing sexual orientation (sometimes called reparative or conversion therapy) is safe or effective. Furthermore, it seems likely that the promotion of change therapies reinforces stereotypes and contributes to a negative climate for lesbian, gay, and bisexual persons. This appears to be especially likely for lesbian, gay, and bisexual individuals who grow up in more conservative religious settings.

Helpful responses of a therapist treating an individual who is troubled about her or his same-sex attractions include helping that person actively cope with social prejudices against homosexuality, successfully resolve issues associated with and resulting from internal conflicts, and actively lead a happy and satisfying life. Mental health professional organizations call on their members to respect a person’s (client’s) right to self-determination; be sensitive to the client’s race, culture, ethnicity, age, gender, gender identity, sexual orientation, religion, socioeconomic status, language, and disability status when working with that client; and eliminate biases based on these factors."

See:Sexual orientation, homosexuality and bisexuality

Nice try Quantum, but you fail again...as usual

Pedophilia and homosexuality were both listed in the DSM II until political pressure made it inadvisable to continue listing homosexuality as a disorder. That pressure resulted in them dropping it in DSM III. Any informed person would know that, and not try to pretend that the lack of a change in one is proof of anything other than a lack political pressure.

Want to try again and provide objective scientific data to show a difference?

Nice job using google and paraphrasing what others wrote.

Regardless the political motive research has progressed and more research has developed showing that homosexuality may have both genetic and environmental components. Different from the Freudian perspective and who (Freud) developed his ideas on homosexuality from Richard von Krafft-Ebing and Hirschfield, in which Freud believed that all humans were born bi-sexual and that there are pathological components to sexual orientation.

As far as scientific difference I cannot account for every single research that has been done comparing homosexual male brains to heterosexual female brains. There are various ideas regarding the endocrine system. In some studies the anterior portion of the hypothalamus may vary in size between homosexual men and heterosexual women see:

https://fc.deltasd.bc.ca/~dmatthews/FOV2-00074762/S02DB0598.38/LeVay study.pdf

With pedophiles there still need to be more research on neurobiological mechanism in sex offenders but there are some research that points to brain structural abnormalities speculating frontocortical dysfunction. One research highlights:

"Compared to the homosexual and heterosexual control subjects, pedophiles showed decreased gray matter volume in the ventral striatum (also extending into the nucl. accumbens), the orbitofrontal cortex and the cerebellum.

These observations further indicate an association between frontostriatal morphometric abnormalities and pedophilia. In this respect these findings may support the hypothesis that there is a shared etiopathological mechanism in all obsessive–compulsive spectrum disorders."

ScienceDirect.com - Journal of Psychiatric Research - Structural brain abnormalities in the frontostriatal system and cerebellum in pedophilia

I had no need to use Google, I lived through it, and remember how it took decades for the political pressure from US progressives to spread far enough for WHO to declassify homosexuality as a mental disorder.

As for structural abnormalities between brains, I remember that study to. Nice to see that you can use Google yourself. As I recall at the time, there were a lot of questions about cause and effect. Since the brains studied were of dead homosexuals it is entirely possible that a lifetime of homosexuality changed the physical structure of the brain. Since we now have studies that prove that it is actually possible to change brain structure through meditation, feel free to Google it if you don't believe me, how can you prove that the cause/effect between brain structure and homosexuality or pedophilia?

Want to try again? Maybe you can come up with something I haven't seen before, and actually force me to use Google to figure out how to respond.

Good luck with that.

 

[koshergrl]

Well in research majority of pedophiles have some sort of past history with sexual abuse, and physical abuse themselves. Their experiences creating a cyclic effect, eventually lands them in the situation they themselves were in. The stigma associated with being a sex offender in this case the pedophile does nothing for future preventative methods. I'm not saying their offense is excusable but I think society needs to be more educated in that the occurence of pedophilia is not spotaneous.

Is that the same research that makes the same claims about homosexuality? Did it ever occur to you that they might be lying? That, because they have been caught, they are looking for mitigating circumstances to lessen their sentences?

I just gave you a direct link from the APA webaite that clearly defines homosexuality to not be a disorder. You are telling me this organization that has done countless research and has been around for decades is wrong?

Yup. The APA based their findings not on their own studies, but on Kinsey's. Who used as his *control* group pedophiles, inmates and other depraved individuals.

 

[syrenn]

Homosexuality is not a choice and neither is pedophilia.

good to see you feel that way.

So lets extrapolate this.

since being a homosexual is not a mental illness based on what you are sexually attracted to.... then neither is or should be pedophilia.


homosexuals however play within the rules of the age of consent.... they play with adults and are attracted to adults.

pedos..... still want what they want... and that is children. What pisses them off is what they want is off limits to them and against the law.

There is no "fixing or curing" pedos..... just as there is no "fixing or curing" someone who is gay.

So saying that they will ever be safe around children becasue they are "cured"....is dangerous.

You have it wrong. Yes regarding pedophilia there is no choice because its a pathology which is different from homosexuality. The development of pedophilia is caused by various factors which I've already highlighted earlier. In the biopsychology circle some are even attributing pedophilia to having an abnormal genetic component see:

ScienceDirect.com - Psychiatry Research - Pedophilia is accompanied by increased plasma concentrations of catecholamines, in particular epinephrine

When I say pedophilia is not a choice I'm referring to the pathology and the displayed behaviors from its development. Pedophilia is destructive, and it ruins lives. You don't "cure" homosexuality because homosexual behavior, unlike pedophilia, it's not destructive. That is why we clinicians do not use the word "cure" and besides using the word cure to describe homosexual orientation in comparison to pedophilia is again, comparing apples and oranges. You cannot compare one destructive lifestyle to a non-destructive lifestyle.

I beg to differ. Not so long ago... homosexuality was considered a very destructive behavior...that they did try to cure it. To some it still is a disorder and needs to be cured.

You do also realize that all of your .... *cough* reasoning.... was used in the very same context toward homosexuality not so very long ago.


yes, i have seen your semantics.... a pedo who is not actively molesting children is always "recovering"..... but never quite all the way recovered. ...oh im sorry...cured.

 

[Aristotle]

By the way Koshergrl a word of advice I wouldn't rely on Alfred Kinsey.

Not only was a lot of his research at Indiana University based off self-report (which is considered unreliable depending on the research) the man engaged in orgies with his students in his attic to record his data!

One doctor writes:

"There is also a documentary called "Kinsey's Pedophiles" that details Kinsey's involvement with pedophiles and other sexual miscreants from whom he gathered the data that supposedly supports his hypothesis that children are sexual from birth."

Also:

"Kinsey's two books -- "Sexual Behavior in the Human Male," published in 1948, and "Sexual Behavior in the Human Female," which followed in 1952 -- started what we now call the sexual revolution. This revolution is a lot more than just a change in attitude. It's a business -- a multibillion-dollar business.

This contraceptive mentality was born in the kind of sexual license that Kinsey endorsed. He believed pornography was harmless, that adultery can enhance a marriage and that children are sexual from birth." See:Judith Gelernter Reisman, Ph.D. - External Articles: The Truth Behind Alfred Kinsey

I hardly think Alfred Kinsey to be a catalyst in the understanding of homosexuality and pedophilia and in fact you (Koshergrl) citing him actually hurts your argument then helping it.

 

[Aristotle]

good to see you feel that way.

So lets extrapolate this.

since being a homosexual is not a mental illness based on what you are sexually attracted to.... then neither is or should be pedophilia.


homosexuals however play within the rules of the age of consent.... they play with adults and are attracted to adults.

pedos..... still want what they want... and that is children. What pisses them off is what they want is off limits to them and against the law.

There is no "fixing or curing" pedos..... just as there is no "fixing or curing" someone who is gay.

So saying that they will ever be safe around children becasue they are "cured"....is dangerous.

You have it wrong. Yes regarding pedophilia there is no choice because its a pathology which is different from homosexuality. The development of pedophilia is caused by various factors which I've already highlighted earlier. In the biopsychology circle some are even attributing pedophilia to having an abnormal genetic component see:

ScienceDirect.com - Psychiatry Research - Pedophilia is accompanied by increased plasma concentrations of catecholamines, in particular epinephrine

When I say pedophilia is not a choice I'm referring to the pathology and the displayed behaviors from its development. Pedophilia is destructive, and it ruins lives. You don't "cure" homosexuality because homosexual behavior, unlike pedophilia, it's not destructive. That is why we clinicians do not use the word "cure" and besides using the word cure to describe homosexual orientation in comparison to pedophilia is again, comparing apples and oranges. You cannot compare one destructive lifestyle to a non-destructive lifestyle.

I beg to differ. Not so long ago... homosexuality was considered a very destructive behavior...that they did try to cure it. To some it still is a disorder and needs to be cured.

You do also realize that all of your .... *cough* reasoning.... was used in the very same context toward homosexuality not so very long ago.


yes, i have seen your semantics.... a pedo who is not actively not molesting children is always "recovering"..... but never quite all the way recovered. ...oh im sorry...cured.

Can you provide a link where homosexuality was considered harmful? Please let it be scientific and not religious, I hate to piss off any Christian, Jews, or Muslims here.

I'm just laughing here because you have no real argument but please, I'm at work and I'd like to be entertained here, it lets the time go by fast.

 

[koshergrl]

They're never cured or recovered at all. There is no treatment. There is no cure. They don't recover. They are stigmatized because they prey upon children in the most vile, disgusting manner there is...repeatedly. Pedos don't just molest one...they destroy as many as they can pull in, and it can be dozens and dozens over a lifetime.

 

[syrenn]

You have it wrong. Yes regarding pedophilia there is no choice because its a pathology which is different from homosexuality. The development of pedophilia is caused by various factors which I've already highlighted earlier. In the biopsychology circle some are even attributing pedophilia to having an abnormal genetic component see:

ScienceDirect.com - Psychiatry Research - Pedophilia is accompanied by increased plasma concentrations of catecholamines, in particular epinephrine

When I say pedophilia is not a choice I'm referring to the pathology and the displayed behaviors from its development. Pedophilia is destructive, and it ruins lives. You don't "cure" homosexuality because homosexual behavior, unlike pedophilia, it's not destructive. That is why we clinicians do not use the word "cure" and besides using the word cure to describe homosexual orientation in comparison to pedophilia is again, comparing apples and oranges. You cannot compare one destructive lifestyle to a non-destructive lifestyle.

I beg to differ. Not so long ago... homosexuality was considered a very destructive behavior...that they did try to cure it. To some it still is a disorder and needs to be cured.

You do also realize that all of your .... *cough* reasoning.... was used in the very same context toward homosexuality not so very long ago.


yes, i have seen your semantics.... a pedo who is not actively not molesting children is always "recovering"..... but never quite all the way recovered. ...oh im sorry...cured.

Can you provide a link where homosexuality was considered harmful? Please let it be scientific and not religious, I hate to piss off any Christian, Jews, or Muslims here.

if the medical community were trying to "cure" homosexuality..... that is a basis for it being harmful. No link should be needed for that.

To this date they still do try an cure homosexuality.

 

[High_Gravity]

I beg to differ. Not so long ago... homosexuality was considered a very destructive behavior...that they did try to cure it. To some it still is a disorder and needs to be cured.

You do also realize that all of your .... *cough* reasoning.... was used in the very same context toward homosexuality not so very long ago.


yes, i have seen your semantics.... a pedo who is not actively not molesting children is always "recovering"..... but never quite all the way recovered. ...oh im sorry...cured.

Can you provide a link where homosexuality was considered harmful? Please let it be scientific and not religious, I hate to piss off any Christian, Jews, or Muslims here.

if the medical community were trying to "cure" homosexuality..... that is a basis for it being harmful. No link should be needed for that.

To this date they still do try an cure homosexuality.

There are camps all over the nation now claiming they can cure homosexuals.

Driving through Virginia I saw a couple different signs one saying homosexuality was a choice and another billboard advertising a Church that can cure it.

 

[koshergrl]

By the way Koshergrl a word of advice I wouldn't rely on Alfred Kinsey.

Not only was a lot of his research at Indiana University based off self-report (which is considered unreliable depending on the research) the man engaged in orgies with his students in his attic to record his data!

One doctor writes:

"There is also a documentary called "Kinsey's Pedophiles" that details Kinsey's involvement with pedophiles and other sexual miscreants from whom he gathered the data that supposedly supports his hypothesis that children are sexual from birth."

Also:

"Kinsey's two books -- "Sexual Behavior in the Human Male," published in 1948, and "Sexual Behavior in the Human Female," which followed in 1952 -- started what we now call the sexual revolution. This revolution is a lot more than just a change in attitude. It's a business -- a multibillion-dollar business.

This contraceptive mentality was born in the kind of sexual license that Kinsey endorsed. He believed pornography was harmless, that adultery can enhance a marriage and that children are sexual from birth." See:Judith Gelernter Reisman, Ph.D. - External Articles: The Truth Behind Alfred Kinsey

I hardly think Alfred Kinsey to be a catalyst in the understanding of homosexuality and pedophilia and in fact you (Koshergrl) citing him actually hurts your argument then helping it.

Which is why I pointed out that the APA made it's determination that homosexuality is not a mental disorder based on KINSEY'S studies. Apparently you agree with me that the determination was based on junk science.

 

[koshergrl]

"A more tolerant stance toward homosexuality was adopted by researchers from other disciplines. Zoologist and taxonomist Alfred C. Kinsey, in his groundbreaking empirical studies of sexual behavior among American adults, revealed that a significant number of his research participants reported having engaged in homosexual behavior to the point of orgasm after age 16 (Kinsey, Pomeroy, & Martin, 1948; Kinsey, Pomeroy, Martin, & Gebhard, 1953). Furthermore, Kinsey and his colleagues reported that 10% of the males in their sample and 2-6% of the females (depending on marital status) had been more or less exclusively homosexual in their behavior for at least three years between the ages of 16 and 55.
[FONT=arial, helvetica]A brief introduction to sampling[/FONT] Despite frequent extrapolations by modern commentators from Kinsey's data to the U.S. adult population, the representativeness of his nonprobability sample cannot be assessed (for methodological and statistical critiques, see Terman, 1948; Cochran, Mosteller, & Tukey, 1954; Wallis, 1949). Nevertheless, his work revealed that many more American adults than previously suspected had engaged in homosexual behavior or had experienced same-sex fantasies. This finding cast doubt on the widespread assumption that homosexuality was practiced only by a small number of social misfits.1

Homosexuality and Mental Health

 

[Aristotle]

Is that the same research that makes the same claims about homosexuality? Did it ever occur to you that they might be lying? That, because they have been caught, they are looking for mitigating circumstances to lessen their sentences?

I just gave you a direct link from the APA webaite that clearly defines homosexuality to not be a disorder. You are telling me this organization that has done countless research and has been around for decades is wrong?

Yup. The APA based their findings not on their own studies, but on Kinsey's. Who used as his *control* group pedophiles, inmates and other depraved individuals.

No they didn't. The Kinsey reports didn't determine the changing of homosexuality based on Kinsey......This is foolish. Majority of his subjects were his students. What are you talking about? Psychology is my field and I actually spent a good portion of my undergraduate studies learning about Alfred Kinsey and the Linsey reports. A lot of his views were criticized and some dismissed.